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LC CCAT (Version III) [Ladder Race won by iss] See Post #236

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by Electrolyte, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Skittle

    Skittle

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    Murkrow @ Life Orb
    Trait: Super Luck
    Level: 5
    EVs: 240 Atk / 80 SAtk / 188 Spd
    Naïve Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Heat Wave
    - Sucker Punch
    - Hidden Power Grass

    This thing is amazing with Drifloon. Drifloon can start out, kill something, and when they switch into one of Murkrows counters, Destiny Bond, making Murkrows late game sweep much easier. This thing is also a powerhouse, using Brave Bird with STAB to wreak everything in it's path. It also has priority in Sucker Punch, a way to kill Steel Types in Heat Wave, and Hidden Power Grass for Chinchou, though Hidden Power Grass could be replaced by Dark Pulse. Long story short... This thing and Drifloon together are amazing...
  2. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    [​IMG]
    Prankster | Eviolite
    36 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def / 20 SpD / 188 Spe
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird
    - Sucker Punch​

    Yada yada.

    Murkrow's incredible ability to serve as a wallbreaker and revenge killer in one is just amazing, and Eviolite SubRoost brings out the best of both qualities. Having three priority moves just shits on many common Pokemon. In addition, Murkrow + Drifloon is an amazing combination, as one can weaken the other's counters for a sweep (facilitated by Destiny Bond as well). Why not Life Orb? It simply doesn't give the same amount of utility as SubRoost does. Sure, you'll be able to 2HKO things, but SubRoost slowly weakens things down and has the ability to actually switch in. This is one of my favorite sets in the metagame, and Murkrow + Drifloon is a combination that I have used to amazing success (a 515-46 record on the ladder).
  3. kingmidas

    kingmidas

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    Natu

    [​IMG]
    Magic Bounce/light clay
    116 HP / 36 Atk / 76 Def / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
    -reflect
    -light screen
    -u-turn
    -wish
    Nature- jolly

    This little bird has a ton of support for that ballon with hands. With magic bounce it can keep any stealth rock or spikes away from the field while sending it to your opponents side. plus the screens protect drifloon to have a easier time sweeping. These support options are all the support drifloon needs to sweep and in case another supporter or drifloon gets hurt wish is a added benefit from using natu with drifloon.
  4. Shouting

    Shouting

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    Since Drifloon is really most effective against offensive teams, we need a wall breaker. Some things that immediately come to mind that can take hits all day from Driftloon are:

    Porygon, Lickitung, Hippopotas, Bronzor, Chinchou, Lileep, Archen, Magnemite, etc.

    Most of these can even bypass Destiny Bond through some sort of status like toxic or just phazing. I really think these should be our main targets. If we want to use Murkrow, we're probably going to need the Life Orb set, or Taunt Murkrow. SubRoost doesn't really bother any of the pokemon above. We definitely need something that hits hard to break down these bulkier pokemon because Drifloon can handle most offensive teams very well. I'm even tempted to say Toxic Spikes Support even as many of the abover pokemon hate them. I really want to suggest Taunt Murkrow, but since Murkrow has already been suggested (there are already 2 Murkrow sets ) For this reason, I suggest we go with Life Orb Houndour since it's one of the best wall breakers in the tier.

    [​IMG]
    Houndour @ Life Orb
    Trait: Early Bird
    Level: 5
    Mild Nature
    Evs: 36 Atk / 196 SAtk / 36 Sdef / 236 Spe
    ~ Fire Blast
    ~ Sucker Punch
    ~ Dark Pulse
    ~ Pursuit / Substitute

    Pretty self explanatory. Houndour is so deadly in this tier because the main Fire resists on teams is either Staryu or Chinchou, both of which are hit ridiculously hard by it's Dark STAB. The more uncommon, sturdier resists in Slowpoke and Frillish are not safe from Houndour at all. Below I have some calcs:
    Show Hide

    196+ SpA Life Orb Houndour Fire Blast vs. 228 HP / 60 SpD Eviolite Lileep: 12-16 (46.15 - 61.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    196+ SpA Life Orb Houndour Fire Blast vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon: 13-17 (50 - 65.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    196+ SpA Life Orb Houndour Dark Pulse vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Staryu: 12-16 (60 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (KO'd by Sucker Punch, but even if it recovers it will be KO'd by the second dark pulse switching in most likely)

    196+ SpA Life Orb Houndour Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 12-16 (50 - 66.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    196+ SpA Life Orb Houndour Fire Blast vs. 212 HP / 20 SpD Eviolite Hippopotas: 19-23 (73.07 - 88.46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    In turn, Drifloon can switch in and check most Mienfoo and even Croagunk ( lacking Sucker Punch) if you predict well.
  5. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
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    Ok so hazard support is definitely going to help our future Pokemon run through walls so a dedicated suicide lead would be quite welcome on the team. Dwebble is perfect for the job

    Sturdy | Oran Berry
    Jolly |36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
    -Stealth Rock
    -Spikes
    -Rock Blast
    -X-Scissor / Earthquake

    This thing is like the Deoxys-D of Little Cup and is just what we need to overwhelm the opponents walls. With this spread Dwebble sits on 16 speed combined with Oran Berry healing approximatly half of dwebbles HP and Sturdy ensuring it doesn't get ohko'd makes it very easy to get up at least Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Rock Blast and X-Scissor are there just for STAB and Rock Blast can be used to threaten any Natu's that want to bounce our hazards away. The hazards that Dwebble sets up can easily turn a 2hko for our team members into a 1hko and he fits absolutely perfectly with Drifloon, since our Drifloon does protect these hazards from being spun and the hazards can help Drifloon gain a KO with Shadow Ball or Acrobatics. I understand that this set traditionally doesn't fit in the "overwhelming catefory" but it does provide the utility needed to overwhelm the opponent through hazards. I think Dwebble + 5 hard hitters would be a very effective team.
  6. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    This is a pretty good list, and what jumps out at me immediately is how there are a lot of Normal-, Rock-, and Steel-types on this list. Of course, the one weakness they all share in common is Fighting, and lucky for us, LC is full of them. Not just that, the "overwhelming offense" theme screams Fighting-type, and the set that I propose we use is Choice Scarf Mienfoo:

    Mienfoo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Regenerator
    Level: 5
    EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd / 36 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Drain Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn

    Hi Jump Kick adds another super-powerful physical move to spam, and unlike Drifloon, it has the immediate Speed necessary to outspeed and 1-2HKO most of those threats. The only two on that list that escape the 2HKO are Bronzor and Hippopotas. It also has a fast U-turn that Mienfoo can use to put Drifloon in on predicted Earthquakes or Fighting-type moves, such as from the aforementioned Hippopotas and opposing Mienfoo. With Scarf Mienfoo on the team, there are very few physical walls that can hope to stop this duo!
  7. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
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    This is a very good choice Hawkstar having used Choice Scarf Mienfoo a lot I have a few more things to add about the effectivness of this set. Not only does it help us against some problematic Pokemon but Choice Scarf Mienfoo's speed can take a lot of opponents by suprise and can often let you gain a cheap KO. A good example of this is outspeeding by suprise and koing an opponents Scarf Snover or non scarfed Murkrow who think their faster with Hi Jump Kick or Stone Edge. This is just an example of two common Pokemon but you can imagine how much damage you can do with Choice Scarf Mienfoo's speed if your opponent is expecting the standard Evolite varaint. Another good thing about this Mienfoo set is seeing as it lacks Life Orb and Choice Scarf means it will outspeed the opponent a lot and it can get a quick U-turn off Choice Scarf Mienfoo can be almost impossible to KO with Regenarator giving it a 3rd of its health back!

    Drain Punch is good on the set I guess especially if you can't afford to miss with Hi Jump Kick but with HJK being just much more powerful and Regenarator giving Mienfoo a source of recovery already I think Knock Off>Drain Punch is not a bad idea. Knock Off lets us get rid of walls Eviolites letting us overwhelm them with our attacks easier/ Kncok Off is a great move to use against common switch ins like Foongus, Bronzor and Misdreavus because it makes them much easier to handle.
  8. apt-get

    apt-get platinum happy
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    I like this set a lot. Though, I've experimented with Knock Off instead of X-Scissor. This dwebble set attracts the likes of Mienfoo and Misdreavus, which are either gonna taunt it (Misdreavus) or use Fake Out to break its sturdy and KO it with Stone Edge (Mienfoo). Knock Off allow Dwebble to support its team even when he can't set hazards, and make it easier to break through some defensive pokémons if they try to switch-in.
  9. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    While that's true, there are plenty of other Knock Off users in the tier we could choose that also jive well with the team. A Choiced Knock Off saps momentum like no other, and after it does its job the first hit, all it is the second time is a laughably weak 20 BP non-STAB move. Not just that, I'd much rather U-turn out of all of those mentioned walls. Foongus gets a free Spore if you use Knock Off, and unless we add something like Insomnia MixKrow later, we will have to sacrifice something, and then the next turn we are set up to eat a Stun Spore. In the same vein, Bronzor gets a free turn to set up rocks, and even without its Eviolite, Drifloon isn't getting past it any time soon. Misdreavus is the most affected of the three, but it can still set up with Substitute or Will-o-Wisp the switch in or use Shadow Ball or anything else out of it's huge movepool.

    Drain Punch, on the other hand, is a safe alternative that helps Mienfoo sweep late-game against dicey targets such as Protect Abra. It also eases prediction, and if you are facing a team with Porygon + Misdreavus, a wrong move won't cost you half your health. Regenerator negates that somewhat, but I'd rather use that free health to heal off hazards damage rather than my own bad moves. Knock Off is indeed a great choice for an offensive team, but if we were to pick Scarf Mienfoo, I think we'd be better off using a more dedicated Knock Off user.
  10. kingmidas

    kingmidas

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    Uh one problem with dealing with natu as someone who gave a natu analyasis for this is ones that carry featherdance which is very common because they usually to deal with dwebbles run max speed which is 17 outrunning any set up dwebble as a lead
  11. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
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    @ Sarkynin Knock Off does sound pretty cool on Dwebble as a nice suprise however it does trade of a great STAB move (X-Scissor) for a rather weak move but still nice suggestion

    @ Hawkstar you did bring up some good points and its true that we will probably have some sort of Knock Off user added into our team later Drain Punch and Knock Off both have their uses

    @ Kingmitus that is true but what I meant was that it is harder for Natu to Switch In on Dwebble compared to other hazard setters due to Rock Blast I probably should of made that more clear but yeah thats what I meant lol
  12. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    I'd like to nominate this guy.

    [​IMG]
    Pawniard @ Eviolite
    Trait: Defiant
    Ev's: 156 HP / 36 Def / 116 Spdef / 196 Spe
    Adamant nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch
    - Iron Head
    - Brick Break

    Although Eviolite might seem odd on a HO team its LO variant is supposed to set up while forcing switches which might seem good on paper but is very hard to execute. Everybody knows how this set functions. Pawniard has nice synergy with Drifloon resisting Ghost, Ice and Dark, while Drifloon is immune to Pawniard's quadruple weakness to fighting and also to Ground. They can easily set up on each other's checks and together destroy the opposition and that's why i think Pawniard should be the second mon of this team.
  13. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    hereby reminding myself to post bu timburr; if i don't end up doing that, disregard this post
    [​IMG]
    Timburr @ Eviolite
    Trait: Guts
    Level: 5
    EVs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 236 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Payback

    Despite not having an incredibly good defensive coverage with Floon, i'm still nominating bulk up timburr. That's because in a HO team offensive coverage>>>>>defensive coverage and timburr beats 90% of the list above. It also gives us a decent counter to scraggy and check to drilbur, so we don't have to add stupid stuff as the 5th and 6th mon.
  14. Delver

    Delver I got the runs like Jagger

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    A long time ago in a metagame before Missy / Murkrow / Gligar were unbanned, I used an offensive core of Drifloon+Pawniard+Timburr to moderate success. I'm convinced that It was my ability to pilot the team that held it back moreso than the core itself It was such a long time ago i dont really remember the exact sets, but *I think* it was AcroFloon, Swords Dance Pawniard, Bulk up Timburr (It miiiiight have been TriplePunchsub (Focus/Drain/Mach/Sub), but for the sake of "overwhelming offense" Bulk up timburr would make more sense). Regardless, the introduction of Murkrow and Missy didnt change much for the core, bar putting a bit more pressure on Pawniard and Drif. Nozzle and Chieliee already called these guys but I'd really like to emphisize how helpful these are.

    Offensively; they all hit physically, with Drifloon being able to run shadowball to take out more physically oriented walls. They also hav a mix of stabs that *are* unresisted throughout the teir, (though thats not hard to accomplish with 5 types). They're also all *very* powerful. The only things that can really wall each of them are things like Bronzor and Hippopotas; the former lacking the recovery necessary to handle 3 attackers of this caliber (look at that Overwhelming offense) and the latter of which we will need an answer for by virtue of sand teams.

    Perhaps most importantly, and where i feel a lot of teams fail, is the type synergy between the three mons. Drifloon is immune to Fighting and ground, both of which pawniard is afraid of, while Guts on Timburr and his large physical bulk means its not too afraid to switch into the odd Flareblitz (which are the only common, non HP fire move around). Pawniard is also immune to psychic and resists flying which provides a good out for timburr's main weaknesses, as well as ice, ghost, and dark on floon's side. Floon and Pawniard can also remove the msot common issue Timburr has in Ghosts (which goes back to why i ran a triple punch set back in the day). Between the three of them and smart play, they have the ability to push through the majority of defensive cores through type synergy alone.

    I just wanted to expand on those two a little because i believe them to be the best possible #2 choices. (though I lean more towards Pawniard for #2)

    Also, cause i noticed it in a few of the suggestions: The topic of the CCAT is "Overwhelming offense" I just want to remind people that before we can start looking to cover weaknesses, we need to first build something that can actually overwhelm with its offense, lest we just make a balanced team.
  15. kingmidas

    kingmidas

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    Devler if exactly right I myself have forgotten about the fact it needs overwhelming offense which is why I will think missy d is great for that I will not make the set because I already did one for natu so someone else may do it but one suggestion is one that uses nasty plot and substitute
  16. Axisotaku

    Axisotaku

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    I think it would be best to get the sweeper soon so that you can properly counter his weakness with the rest so i'm going to post what I think would be a good pick to sweep with.

    [​IMG]
    Scraggy @ Eviolite
    Trait: Shed Skin
    Level: 5
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
    Adamant/Jolly
    - Dragon Dance
    - Drain Punch
    - Crunch
    - Ice Punch

    Scraggy has his share of counters but after just 1 dd he is very dangerous, after 2 dd he is pretty much unstoppable you could give him the BU set but I prefer this one.

    I did think of something else that can could possibly be a good pick similar to Drifloon in how he can take something out with destiny bond. It has very little "offencive power" but it could still be a great fit in the way we want to get rid of our sweepers threats :Foogus
  17. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    Foongus has no use on a HO team. Also when using DD i reccomend using Zen Headbutt over Ice Punch. To hit Poison types like Croagunk and Koffing MUCH harder.
  18. Axisotaku

    Axisotaku

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    well... both attacks are fine, but then again it just depends on the rest of the team if you have other things to take care of koffing croagunk and other fighting types, or if you want to be able to do more damage to vullaby and murkrow + grass/dragon types

    also the nemesis are murkrow and drilbur, it would be wise to have something to hit both of them hard with dont you think?(even if drain punch does hit them hard)
  19. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
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    Ok, I've given you guys more than enough time to get your submissions in. Now we shall enter the Voting Phase.

    Here are your options:

    ~Skittle's LO Murkrow
    ~iss's Eviolite Murkrow
    ~kingmitus's Natu
    ~Shouting's Houndour
    ~Superpowerdude's Dwebble
    ~Hawkstar's Scarfoo
    ~Nozzle's Pawniard
    ~Chieliee's Timburr
    ~Axisotaku's Scraggy


    I'll give you guys another week to get your votes in. You may NOT vote for yourself!

    Users with bonus voting points-
    blarajan: +0.5
    Corkscrew: +0.5

    If you get the vote of one of those two, 1.5 votes will go towards your pokemon!

    Concept: "Overwhelming Offense

    Purpose: Create a team that is meant to overwhelm a specific Pokemon's checks and counters (that isn't SandMag and is thus less well checked) in order to set up a sweep for the other thing.*

    Description: Things are easy to wear down in this tier. I'm sure spamming Fire types or Water types or Fighting types or something can lead to some sort of sweep.

    Things to Consider:
    Offenses greatest nemeses, Drilbur and Murkrow
    Handling the tier
    BEING STRONG

    Sorry not much detail...just "spam Pokemon checked by the same stuff to WIN IT VIGOROUSLY"

    Team so far:
    [​IMG]
    Drifloon @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    Level: 5
    EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spd / 36 SAtk / 4 Def / 4 SDef
    Naive Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Shadow Ball
    - Substitute / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power something else
    - Destiny Bond



    Good luck, everyone!
  20. Axisotaku

    Axisotaku

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    chieliee's Timburr
  21. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
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    I don't know why we shouldn't pick iss's Eviolite Murkrow at this point.

    Most of the others are good suggestions though and probably would like to see them nominated again next mon
  22. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

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    Iss's Eviolite Murkrow

    Dark is very similar to Ghost and Flying is just great in this Meta. Nothing can withstand the power of two together. It fits great with the concept IMO.
  23. Nebuchadnezzar

    Nebuchadnezzar

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    ^
    I agree with both Good Luck and Corkscrew. iss's Eviolite Mutkrow.
  24. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
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    Hawkstars Scarfoo
  25. apt-get

    apt-get platinum happy
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    Skittle's LO Murkrow

    I don't get why everyone is choosing eviolite subroost, our concept is overwhelming offense, not balanced. The little bird is getting walled way too easily, and can't really punch holes early-game like we'd expect from the little bird.

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