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BW LC LC Rising (Peaked #1 & 2)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by iss, Aug 19, 2012.

  1. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,093
    Hi, this is iss. This is one of my most successful ladder teams to date, as it has simultaneously held the #1 and #2 spots on the Pokemon Showdown Little Cup ladder. Amazingly, this team dates back to BW LC, as I created it shortly after the banning of Gligar. I think it's telling that in PS, this team is named "lc16 - post-gligar meta". It enjoyed a good amount of success back in that metagame. However, it did lose to tennisace in Round 3 of The Little Cup Tourney VI, as a change of item on tennisace's Murkrow (from Life Orb in previous matches to Eviolite) caught me off guard and lost me the game on the last turn. After that loss, I didn't ladder or play Little Cup at all for about a month, mainly due to a lack of motivation- the ladder was stagnant, and mostly filled with terrible players. I then went to camp for three weeks with not enough internet to ladder, so it was even more time spent not playing.

    Last week, I decided to pick up laddering again. The ladder was still filled with a lot of bad teams/players (especially down at the rating I had decayed to), but there were signs of hope- new LCers that were actually pretty good, and even many of those down in the 1300s were using decent sand teams. Even so, the ladder was fairly easy, due to several traits of this team (which I'll talk about later). I went 42-3 on my first day of laddering, and got to #1 and eventually over 2000 a few days later.

    Laddering was getting boring again though, so I created a new alt on Saturday, justanotherperson, and laddered for four hours while watching my friends play through Portal 2. It worked out pretty well, going 27-1 during those four hours. I laddered a bit more on justanotherperson Saturday night and Sunday, and eventually picked up enough wins to overcome losing points for winning and random bouts of hax/bad play. At this point, there's really not much left to do with this team, as the LC Open is still quite a while away (for which I will inevitably have to teambuild again) and I've accomplished what I wanted to do for the ladder. So here's LC Rising. I hope you test it out, use it on ladder, and make changes to it. There's nothing extraordinary or new here, it's just an efficient combination of Pokemon that have been used many times before.

    I'd go so far as to call this team as standard as possible.

    Ladder Proof + Thoughts (open)
    See the hide tag below for updated stats.

    [​IMG]

    justanotherperson is me, and iss was 17-11-0 when I started laddering again.

    So the team is 137-15 overall (wow I play too many ladder games).

    Some thoughts on the ladder: The ladder is still flawed, but Zarel is working hard (and asking the community, how awesome) to fix these flaws. Stuff like losing points for winning, getting paired with people at 800 when you're at 2000, this will all be fixed eventually. I'm not really worried, Zarel and the rest of the PS dev team have done a fantastic job so far at building a great simulator for everyone.

    I've heard other LCers complain that there are way too many bad teams or bad players on the ladder. This is true (although it will be fixed eventually by limiting the difference between ACREs). However, PS's ladder has also turned out to be the most active Little Cup ladder we have ever had. I cannot recall a ladder that ever gave me consistent battles every 15 seconds or so. The days of waiting minutes, if not hours, for battles on Shoddy, or the massive amount of Cleffas on Pokemon Online, PS simply provides consistent "real" battles. I would much rather play 9 games against bad players and then have a good match than wait 30 minutes for a battle that may or may not actually be good.

    I do realize that there is another side to this though, and that is the players who like LC and play it, but simply have no chance against the better teams and play of those higher up on the ladder. That is why Battling 101 exists. The problem is that the LC B101 staff is underused, as extremely few people actually sign up for tutoring for Little Cup. A good number of our tutees are actually people who just want to learn any tier and get pushed to LC due to a lack of space in other tiers. If you're one of those players that is incredibly annoyed by continuously losing on ladder, I highly recommend you sign up for B101. As a quick check, see if you have Leftovers on your LC team. If you do, you should sign up- it will make you a better player.

    History (open)
    Original Ladder

    1 iss 2024 89.0 2048 ± 55 (provisional) 69 7 0
    3 justanotherperson 1935 84.1 1935 ± 41 101 10 0

    W/L: 170-17

    Player Rankings
    Period One

    1 jippov 2037 22-2
    2 screen 2036 31-2
    4 raghavan 1989 53-2
    5 ssi 1966 74-14

    24 points 180-20

    Period Two

    1 for x in y 2051 24-0
    2 Mill.Feast 1986 27-0
    3 Nugget Bridge 1982 26-4
    4 Inside Scoop 1974 31-3
    5 Lift Tunes 1969 21-0

    30 points 129-7

    Period Three

    Report This Bug 1971 36-2

    Total

    W/L: 515-46


    LC Rising
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    General Playstyle (open)
    This team mainly owes its success to two things: constant offensive pressure, and a solid defensive core that is able to stop sweeps.

    Firstly, applying constant pressure. Murkrow and Mienfoo can apply a lot of earlygame pressure, while Drifloon excels at breaking the game open in the midgame with its amazingly strong Acrobatics. Snover and Murkrow shine in the lategame, as their high Speed combined with strong STAB attacks is usually enough to finish off a weakened enemy team. By applying so much pressure, the opponent is forced to use their counters to each attacker as they come out. Many of the counters to my attackers overlap, meaning that even if Drifloon's midgame sweep is stopped by a Bronzor, it can weaken Bronzor enough to allow Snover to sweep later on in the game.

    Secondly, a defensive core combined with revenge killing potential. Mienfoo, Porygon, and Staryu can handle nearly every sweeper between them. For the exceptions (mostly strong Shell Smashers that can OHKO Porygon), Mienfoo's Fake Out, Murkrow's Sucker Punch, and Snover's Ice Shard provide enough priority that this team will rarely lose to a straight-up setup sweeper. By having so much priority, this team gains more options due to not having to account for the possibility of a setup sweeper in most early to midgame scenarios.

    Since this team is pretty much a bulky offense team, I'd like to point out a few traits that I think really define good bulky offense teams. Firstly, recovery on a majority of your team members is crucial. This team has recovery in the form of Regenerator and Drain Punch for Mienfoo, Roost for Murkrow, and Recover for Staryu and Porygon. This makes the team very resilient, and gives me the capability to outlast my opponent's walls, allowing my sweepers in Murkrow, Drifloon, and Snover to sweep. Secondly, a way of revenging setup sweepers is very important. This is especially true if you're trying to climb the ladder, as many of your opponent will simply try to set up a sweeper and win with it. This team covers setup sweepers nicely, as priority from Murkrow, Mienfoo, and Snover as well as Porygon's natural bulk with Thunder Wave makes this team very hard to sweep. Everything else is team dependant. This team lacks entry hazards, but it still works perfectly fine. There is no perfect formula that will guarantee that a team will work.


    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Mienfoo @ Eviolite
    Regenerator | Impish
    156 HP / 76 Atk / 196 Def / 76 Spe
    - Drain Punch
    - U-turn
    - Fake Out
    - Knock Off

    Mienfoo is quite possibly the most versatile Pokemon in Little Cup. If you read the previous section, you may have noted that Mienfoo was mentioned in the both the offensive and defensive sections. That's because Mienfoo is just so good and versatile. Mienfoo starts off as quite an offensive Pokemon in the earlygame, with Drain Punch and Knock Off both quite good offensive moves, while Fake Out provides a bit of early damage and a well-timed U-turn can force even more switches. In the mid to lategame, Regenerator and Fake Out become king. Regenerator means that come lategame, Mienfoo will often still be at full health or near it. Fake Out and Drain Punch are often strong enough to take out weakened teams alone. Fake Out also is a fantastic move for stopping sweeps, and the EVs make Mienfoo bulky enough to take some hits even from sweepers at +2.

    There is also one other very important role that Mienfoo serves on this team: the Steel- and Rock-type killer. Steel- and Rock-types are incredibly annoying for this team, as they resist every move on this team except for those of Mienfoo and Staryu (I guess Hidden Power Fire on Snover, but if you're using that, you'd be pretty desperate). It just so happens that Mienfoo is perfect for the role, being able to switch in repeatedly due to a resistance to Stealth Rock and massive healing from Drain Punch and Regenerator. Hitting a Knock Off on one of these troublesome Pokemon also makes them much, much easier to kill in the lategame from resisted attacks such as Snover's Blizzard or Murkrow's Brave Bird.

    I eat my words. Knock Off is fantastic on Mienfoo.

    There is one very important thing to note if you're going to use this team: Never let Mienfoo die. Unless you're absolutely sure that Mienfoo will be useless, like their last two Pokemon are Misdreavus / Drifloon, Mienfoo is the most valuable thing to keep alive on this team. Fake Out is invaluable for stopping sweepers, and Drain Punch kills important threats. It's alright for Mienfoo to take 80-90% damage to get a kill, because with good play Regenerator and Drain Punch will allow Mienfoo to recover that amount of health rather quickly. However, once Mienfoo dies, there's no using Regenerator or Drain Punch; it's dead.

    The EVs are fairly standard; they give Mienfoo enough bulk to reliably kill Scraggy, which would otherwise pose a huge threat to this team. I like running 76 Speed, as it gives Mienfoo 14 Speed, a number that many setup sweepers hover at before they use their setup moves. It's saved me quite a few times, and it's definitely more useful than an extra point of HP or Attack.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Murkrow @ Eviolite
    Prankster | Jolly
    36 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def / 20 SpD / 188 Spe
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird
    - Sucker Punch

    I've written a whole thread on SubRoost Murkrow before, and although that was in BW before the ban of Gligar, Murkrow really hasn't changed at all. Here's the relevant part if you don't want to visit the thread:

    Warning: Long (open)
    Okay, here's the set that I've been calling the most skillbased set in the metagame at the moment in several threads. The general premise is pretty simple; get a Substitute and start killing things, Roosting off damage when you need to. However, while without prediction it's already an excellent set, with good prediction it becomes nearly unstoppable. Firstly, you must understand when and why to use each move:

    Substitute: You should be using this a lot. By a lot, I mean more than half of the time in some cases. Prankster Substitute, especially when paired with Roost, is like Protect--except it punishes your opponent hard for not attacking. If Stealth Rock is off the field, feel free to Substitute whenever you want; Murkrow has plenty of opportunities to Roost. Murkrow is such a threat to simply wreck most Pokemon with Brave Bird that often, you'll see your opponent switch on the second or third Substitute, fearing a Brave Bird. From the switch, you can be content with entry hazard damage and Roost up for next time, or abuse the fact that they pretty much have to attack by using Sucker Punch. Brave Bird is an option too. Keep in mind that if you have hail support (which is absolutely fantastic for Murkrow), Substitute can help you get that 5-10% extra you need for a KO.

    Roost: Roost's main effect is healing Murkrow, but there are special ways to use Roost, too. If you need to stall more turns than Substitute allows you to (in hail), Murkrow is actually pretty bulky with Eviolite and can tank a lot of hits. However, the more useful effect is removing Murkrow's Flying type for a turn, allowing Murkrow's Substitute to tank a lot of weak super effective hits. The main attack that you will encounter is Bronzor's Hidden Power Ice, which does not break Murkrow's Substitute during Roost. With perfect prediction or good prediction and some prior damage, Murkrow can easily take out Bronzor without even needing to attack.

    Brave Bird: Brave Bird is mainly useful during the earlygame and lategame. In the earlygame, Brave Bird can be extremely useful to test your opponent's defenses against Murkrow, and can even punch a few holes in some common counters for lategame sweeps. I have quite a few 6-0 Murkrow sweeps to my name just because my opponent decided to switch their supposed Murkrow counter into a Brave Bird, getting 2HKOed either naturally or via a crit, and losing the game because of that. Lategame, Brave Bird, when combined with Murkrow's great Speed, can clean up many weakened teams. During the midgame, Brave Bird isn't quite as useful because you're taking a lot of residual damage. For example, Stealth Rock usually won't be up during the earlygame, and lategame 25% off Murkrow won't matter as much, but during the midgame Murkrow really does not want to be losing HP from Stealth Rock, Substitute, Hail, and Brave Bird. Yes, Roost helps, but you really should only be using Brave Bird if it's after a kill, Murkrow's at high health, and you're facing something like Mienfoo that you can easily OHKO.

    Sucker Punch: Sucker Punch is a very situational move, and it will most likely be your least used move. There are only four circumstances where Sucker Punch should be used: against a Choice Scarfer, against a sweeper that has set up, finishing off weakened Pokemon from behind a Substitute, and when Murkrow simply cannot afford to take recoil damage (usually when Murkrow is the last Pokemon on your team). You usually will encounter at least one or two of these situations per game, and that's when Sucker Punch truly shines. Don't go around spamming Sucker Punch though. It simply isn't worth it.

    What you usually want to happen is this: Murkrow switches in, gets a free Substitute on the switch to the counter, uses Roost while scouting the move used against it, and switches out to an appropriate counter. Notice the lack of attacks in that sequence. Yes, I did mention using Brave Bird as a scouting tool in the earlygame, but this should be your general midgame plan unless you are absolutely sure you can nab a quick KO. Murkrow thrives in the lategame, and that's where you want to get to. Murkrow doesn't need to attack to do damage; like Drilbur in the last metagame, it forces your opponent to keep their checks and counters alive, while making them reluctant to use Ground-type moves or KO one of your Pokemon with a Pokemon that is weak to Murkrow. Never sacrifice Murkrow unless doing so would help you win the game.

    Low Murkrow usage has been attributed to the fact that Murkrow cannot just be thrown on any team the way Gligar or Misdreavus can. That is true, but Murkrow does not need a huge amount of team support. There are three main components that make Murkrow much stronger: entry hazards, Rapid Spin, and hail or sand (but preferably hail). Murkrow appreciates entry hazards just like any sweeper. There are quite a few 2HKOs that Murkrow can achieve on bulkier defensive Pokemon with Stealth Rock up, most notably defensive Gligar. While it isn't essential for Murkrow's success, it certainly does help. Rapid Spin makes Murkrow much better in the midgame, as it can use Substitute without needing to Roost every time it switches in. Staryu synergizes pretty well with Murkrow anyways, as Murkrow can easily remove defensive Grass-types while Staryu is good against most standard Steel-types. Hail not only provides additional damage for Murkrow, it allows Murkrow to do damage while using Substitute. While it may not be a lot of damage, Little Cup is a lot about small amounts of damage adding up these days. It also lets Murkrow beat Bronzor. Sandstorm works too to an extent, but Murkrow loses the ability to beat Bronzor.


    Yeah. If you read the last paragraph above, you'll see that this team has two of the three things that make Murkrow better; it has Rapid Spin and hail. I cannot stress how important these things are if you're using Eviolite SubRoost; if you can't fit these things onto your team, try LO SubRoost or MixKrow. Murkrow's Brave Bird is just incredibly strong, and will 2HKO anything that doesn't resist it. However, Sucker Punch is probably the most important move for this team: it's the strongest priority move on this team (by far) and will take out almost all Shell Smashers. Murkrow's typing is also nice for dealing with stuff like Abra or Misdreavus that really like to mess with Mienfoo.

    The EVs here are standard; the moveset is practically non-negotiable. Read the stuff above if you want to learn how this set works.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Snover @ Choice Scarf
    Snow Warning | Naive
    104 Atk / 184 SpA / 200 Spe
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Shard
    - Hidden Power Fire

    Snover is a lot like an insurance plan: if it comes to lategame and I'm losing in Pokemon score, most of the time their team will be weakened enough that Snover can sweep. However, that doesn't mean Snover should only be used in the lategame; in fact, it should almost always be brought out at some point in the midgame. This is usually after the opponent has KOed one of my Pokemon, and Snover is in position to revenge kill. The opponent is therefore presented with a dilemma: do they give up the kill to Snover, or do they switch in their Ice resist to take a Blizzard? Many times opponents choose the latter option, which leads to a defeat in the lategame. Few things can take repeated Snover Blizzards over time- you need a large amount of Special Defense and recovery. RestTalk Chinchou is probably the only common one at this point, but Giga Drain is always a threat to that.

    I normally don't talk about moves, but I've seen a few RMTs where Snover don't carry Ice Shard, which I find completely absurd. Ice Shard has singlehandedly won me games in lategame situations. Here's an example:
    Show Hide
    I have Mienfoo out after KOing his Pawniard, as well as a 30% Snover. There is Stealth Rock down on my side of the field. He has a 43% offensive Natu and a 39% Murkrow. He switches in Natu.

    Opponent sent out Natu!
    Turn 31

    The foe's Natu used Psychic!
    It's super effective! Mienfoo lost 57% of its health!
    Mienfoo fainted!

    The hail crashes down.
    The foe's Natu is buffeted by the hail!

    I used U-turn on this turn. He has Roost, which could heal him, but then U-turn would be super effective and probably take him out. Instead, he decides to kill me.

    justanotherperson sent out Snover!
    Pointed stones dug into Snover!
    Turn 32

    Snover is currently at 4% health after Stealth Rock. Since he has a Murkrow with Sucker Punch, Blizzard would lose here. Instead, Ice Shard cleans up his Natu and Murkrow for the win.

    Snover used Ice Shard!
    It's super effective! The foe's Natu lost 39% of its health!
    The foe's Natu fainted!

    The hail crashes down.

    Opponent sent out Murkrow!
    Turn 33

    Snover used Ice Shard!
    It's super effective! The foe's Murkrow lost 39% of its health!
    The foe's Murkrow fainted!

    justanotherperson won the battle!


    While Blizzard and Giga Drain are obviously non-negotiable and Ice Shard has amazing utility, Hidden Power Fire is probably the worst move on the entire team. I have used it roughly twice in over 150 battles, and neither usage resulted in a KO. Blizzard is almost always a better choice, even against Steel-types, unless it's some weird last-Pokemon scenario. It's mostly there for a lack of better options. Perhaps Hidden Power Ground could work to hit some Fire-types? All I know is that Hidden Power Fire is awful and should probably never be used.

    The EVs are standard. This is completely standard.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Drifloon @ Flying Gem
    Unburden | Naughty
    196 Atk / 116 SpA / 196 Spe
    - Acrobatics
    - Shadow Ball
    - Substitute
    - Hypnosis

    Every team needs a significant offensive presence, and Drifloon provides that for this team. Flying Gem Acrobatics rips through anything that doesn't resist it, OHKOing nearly all sweepers and 2HKOing pretty much everything else. Shadow Ball is nice for taking out Misdreavus and stuff, but its main purpose is to apply pressure while still keeping tje Flying Gem intact for a future Acrobatics. Substitue and Hypnosis stop Sucker Punch attempts, and also allow Drifloon to take out troublesome or bulky targets in hail.

    The main way of dealing with Drifloon is to force it out after it has used Acrobatics. However, a Flying Gem Acrobatics should definitely not be wasted. Therefore, the best use of Drifloon is in the midgame, where things are weakened enough for it to sweep but also use the full damage of the Flying Gem. Once Drifloon uses Acrobatics for the first time, it's usually not going to switch out unless there's something obvious (like a Sucker Punch when Drifloon's at 10% and Hypnosis has already been used) and I can keep Drifloon while taking no damage. The one exception to this is playing against teams with Shroomish/Foongus. In these cases, I burn Drifloon and its Flying Gem early, try to pick up a kill or two, and switch it out when it gets below 50%. That way, I can use it as a sleep and status absorber, so I don't have to be as worried about Spore or Stun Spore.

    I guess Destiny Bond is an option over Hypnosis, but as infuriating as Hypnosis is, I'd rather try to go for more kills than have a double switch. Even if Drifloon dies, I still have a free switch, and can actually in most cases continue the offensive momentum started by Drifloon. I'd rather have the momentum of a free switch (and often pick up more kills with Hypnosis) than have another kill but a blind free switch.

    EVs and set are standard. I use Naughty instead of Naive mostly because the Speed only matters before Acrobatics, and the only thing at 16 Speed really is offensive Chinchou, which you aren't going to switch into anyways.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Staryu @ Eviolite
    Natural Cure | Timid
    36 HP / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    If you looked carefully at the team beforehand, you'd notice that there's quite a large Stealth Rock weakness- Murkrow, Snover, and Drifloon are all weak to Stealth Rock, and in general this team doesn't enjoy entry hazards. I could have either used Staryu or Natu, and in the end Staryu was simply better. Staryu is the glue of this team- after Rapid Spinning, it doesn't really have a defined role, but instead helps out to kill annoying things like Frillish and Bronzor. Being able to take out Fire-types that stop Snover sweeps is nice too.

    I'm not afraid to throw Staryu into dangerous situations or even sacrifice it if hazards are gone and opposing hazard setters are weakened or dead. Staryu is here to use Rapid Spin, and that's something it does very well. None of Little Cup's Ghost-types can really hope to switch into Staryu without taking a rather large chunk of damage. Staryu as a spinner simply is better than every other Rapid Spin user in the metagame. That being said, Staryu is mostly here out of necessity- it has some synergy with the rest of the team, but it's not here to kill things first; it's here to remove that dreaded Stealth Rock.

    EVs and set are standard, as usual. I did use Psychic over Thunderbolt for a while, but Thunderbolt is just so nice for stuff like Mantyke, Frillish, and Slowpoke that would otherwise cause this team a lot of trouble. It also smacks Clamperl and Shellder, who could otherwise easily Shell Smash on Staryu.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Porygon @ Eviolite
    Trace | Calm
    236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SpD
    - Tri Attack
    - Thunder Wave
    - Shadow Ball
    - Recover

    Porygon is actually an asshole.

    Aside from people who repeatedly use weak attacks to try to kill something with 26 / 24 / 24 defenses, Porygon is really amazing. It's this team's main Misdreavus counter, being able to comfortably take Will-O-Wisp or a +2 Hidden Power Fighting and toss a Thunder Wave right back. Thunder Wave also helps out when the inevitable Mienfoo switch comes, as paralysis hurts Mienfoo much more than most people expect. The other moves are pretty selfexplanatory.

    Porygon is mainly my general purpose check- very few sweepers can actually OHKO Porygon, and Thunder Wave will just completely shut down almost every single sweeper. It is also my Chinchou counter, as Trace allows it to become immune to Volt Switch, Thunderbolt, and Thunder Wave by Tracing Volt Absorb, which will force most Chinchou out. Trace also does all sorts of other awesome things- Tracing Prankster to get a clutch Recover against Murkrow, Tracing Magic Guard against Abra to survive hail, Tracing Regenerator from Foongus or Mienfoo... the list goes on and on. Trace is just one of the most amazing abilities ever, and Porygon makes fantastic use of it when combined with Thunder Wave.

    The EVs are standard; however, I use Calm instead of Bold to beat Misdreavus and Chinchou better. A Prankster trace against Murkrow works fine for beating it anyways.

    Final Glance
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Flaws (open)
    While this team is certainly not bad, it does have its fair share of flaws. Here are some of the main ones.

    Hazards: With good play, double Ghost teams that prevent hazards from being spun will absolutely destroy this team. If Stealth Rock is down, it is still somewhat managable, usually through Snover or Drifloon sweeps. However, add layers of Spikes and especially Toxic Spikes, and it becomes practically unwinnable. This is one situation where Natu would be a better pick than Staryu, but Natu is much more unreliable in other cases, so it all evens out.

    Heavy Offense: HO teams tend to put a lot of pressure on Porygon, preventing it from succesfully stopping every sweep. Murkrow's Sucker Punch can only hold up for so long as well. However, if I can get a momentum shift and successfully get a free switch on a sweeper that isn't set up, Drifloon can easily clean up most HO teams.

    Steel- and Electric-types: Mienfoo is a good answer to most of these, but multiple ones can actually break through Mienfoo eventually and leave me in a rough spot. Magnemite and Pawniard are two of the worst ones, the former dealing upwards of 70% to Mienfoo with Thunderbolt and nearly 2HKOing Porygon, while the latter has an easy time setting up, doesn't care that much about paralysis, and can only really be killed by Mienfoo.

    Importable (open)
    Mienfoo @ Eviolite
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 156 HP / 76 Atk / 196 Def / 76 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - U-turn
    - Fake Out
    - Knock Off

    Murkrow @ Eviolite
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def / 20 SDef / 188 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird
    - Sucker Punch

    Snover @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 104 Atk / 184 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Shard
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Drifloon @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 196 Atk / 116 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Naughty Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Shadow Ball
    - Substitute
    - Hypnosis

    Staryu @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 36 HP / 196 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    Porygon @ Eviolite
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Tri Attack
    - Thunder Wave
    - Shadow Ball
    - Recover
  2. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude more dogebird
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

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    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,294
    This team is amazing congrats on the peak! I will edit this if i can find anything wrong with your team but i have been looking at it for a good 10-15 minutes and i can't find anything good job!
  3. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    688
    Great team, iss. I think the team would definetely appreciate a more solid fighting resistance than drifloon, as something like offensive mienfoo with stone edge would be able to kill something just about every time it switches in. Offensive LO krow could be pretty dangerous, but then again, what team isn't it dangerous for? I can't really think of anything to cover these, though, and there probably isn't judging by the ammount you've laddered, but congrats on the peak(s). I think you've inspired me to go and get another decent team on the ladder after a long break. Luvdisc'd :)
  4. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,819
    This team is cute and made by a cute user. Great team iss, congratulations for ladder peak! Totally deserves my Luvdisc.
  5. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,093
    Thanks!

    Yeah, Fighting-types that can kill Drifloon (Timburr especially) are incredibly annoying. It mainly comes down to prediction and forcing them out with Murkrow if Drifloon dies due to bad prediction. LO Mienfoo actually isn't that much of a problem, as it is hurt much more by Thunder Wave from Porygon than normal Mienfoo. It is also quite weak to Snover and Staryu, as Blizzard and Hydro Pump will simply deal large amounts of damage. I guess I could try a more defensive Ghost-type over Drifloon, but doing so removes my midgame offensive presence.

    MixKrow is really annoying, but Porygon can switch in on any move not called Brave Bird and if it lands a Thunder Wave, MixKrow is done for. Staryu can also help out here. LO SubRoost is countered by Porygon if it has Prankster, as then a Prankster Recover will defeat a Brave Bird doing 54% any day.

    Thanks for the rate!

    You're cute too <3
  6. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
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    I gave this a luvdisc this because not only is it a great team, it is also very informative as to how it works. I'm sure the 'General Playstyle' hide tag would be very useful for newer players wanting to get into LC. I see a lot of newer players on the ladder, and often direct them to the LC forums or battling 101, so they can learn more about the tier, as I don't feel that I have the ability to help them myself. I will be directing a lot of them to this thread from now on.
  7. Emidox

    Emidox

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    I think, I played this team, before and kept getting beat by it. This team is really amazing and congrats on reaching the peak
  8. Gengan

    Gengan

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    If you're participating in the LC Open count me out. If I scrape through round 1 and have to go against you I'm screwed, so yeh.

    Anyway, luvdisc the team; it explains perfectly why you're over 2000 on the LC ladder and I'm... Like I said, good job on the team.
  9. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Yeah, as I mentioned in the ladder section, LC B101 could really use more people joining. Activity seems to be picking up now, so that's good. Thanks for the luvdisc!

    Heh, I remember playing you a lot on ladder. Your team was actually really troublesome for me, and it took me quite a few games to figure out how to win. Thanks for the congrats!

    The LC Open is still a good time away, and it'll likely be quite a different metagame by then. Besides, the chances of you playing me Round 1 or 2 are pretty low, so I think you'd still have a pretty good shot at making it far. Good luck when it finally rolls around!
  10. AndreLutherKing

    AndreLutherKing

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    I have been testing out team out all morning & it is amazing. So far I only have 1 loss with it & coincidentally that loss was to this team & that still came down to the last play
  11. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    Good team and solid writeup, I don't know why I haven't commented on this yet. Seriously though, when I think of Staryu+Snover(+Murkrow), I think of this team. It doesn't even use SR, but it plays so comfortably that it doesn't have to, because while the opponent is taking the time to set up SR you're just blasting away with Brave Bird or Blizzard or Hydro Pump.

    At first I didn't really understand why you use Drifloon, and to be honest I'm still a little skeptical. But then I try and think of a Pokemon that would fill that slot better and I really can't. It does have some pretty spectacular synergy with Murkrow and Snover. One thing you could do is drop a point in Speed for a point in Special Attack. I can't think of anything notable you outspeed with 16 Speed over 15 Speed... maybe some random Mienfoo or Jolly Scraggy? IDK, just a thought.

    The only real suggestion I have is to try Hidden Power Rock on Snover; you said yourself that Hidden Power Fire is terrible for your team. Hidden Power Rock gives you the option of hitting Larvesta, who is a pretty tough pokemon for your team to switch into, especially since you do lack Stealth Rock. I can see how you would want Hidden Power Ground for Magnemite (and I guess Pawniard/Houndour) though.

    That Magnemite weakness is pretty irritating, but I suppose bar adding in Chinchou somewhere (which I don't recommend) nothing you do will really fix that. You could toy with the idea of somehow fitting Heat Wave onto Murkrow, or Hidden Power Fire/Ground onto Drifloon? Neither really solve your inability to switch into Magnemite, but they do help eliminate some of its safer switchins.

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