Metagame LC Ubers

Quote

Cautiously Optimistic
is a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus
LC Co-Leader
#1

(will get a banner later maybe)

LC UBERS
Had a bunch of requests for this, so I figured it was only a matter of time before I put up a thread. It's a pretty simple concept, really. It's LC, but we've unbanned every LC Ubers Pokemon.

Clauses: Same as regular LC

Bans are as follows:

Pokemon: Any that are illegal in LC, meaning Pokemon that are single-stage, evolved, or unevolved Pokemon that aren't available at Level 5 (Type: Null). Anything else is good to go.

Moves: Dragon Rage, Sonicboom, Baton Pass

Items: None for now

I know you guys are gonna have some questions, so I'll answer a few here before you ask them:

- Why is Scyther/Sneasel/X mon legal?

I want to take a more liberal approach with LC Ubers. Ubers is by nature a centralising environment, and although I expect LC Ubers to be similar, I'm ok with that. As long as an element of play isn't completely overwhelming I think it should be fine.

- Does this mean nothing about the meta will change? No bans ever? And what's up with Baton Pass?

Additional bans are a possibility. Like I said, it has to be something that's so overbearing that every battle comes down to "this beats me unless I do one specific thing perfectly". It's also part of the reason I preemptively banned Baton Pass. Baton Pass is much more threatening than it already is in LC because of the potential recipients. Scyther, Sneasel, Tangela, Meditite, etc. all become absolutely dominant when given even a few boosts.

- Will this have a ladder? Challenge format? Forum tours? Room tours?

No, possible but unlikely, sometime in the future yes, and yes! I will be making the effort to increase LC Ubers' visibility and popularity by hosting room tours for it. If you have the ability to host room tours and want to have an LC Ubers tournament, just create a Gen 7 LC tour, and use the following command:

Code:
/tour banlist !drifloon, !cutiefly, !porygon, !vulpix-base, !scyther, !swirlix, !sneasel, !tangela, !yanma, !gligar, !murkrow, !meditite, !misdreavus, !gothita, !swagger, !eeviumz, baton pass
If you have any other questions feel free to ask. We'll make a VR later on once we have an idea what we're doing with the meta. Use this thread to discuss the metagame, share and describe replays, bring up possible suspects (lol Scyther/Sneasel 2gud), or advertise tournaments.

Have fun!
 
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#3
Nope!

To elaborate, I compared Eevee to Xerneas in the discord earlier, and I think that it's not a terrible comparison after thinking further. It's a powerful setup sweeper, but with the removal of Baton Pass that's all it is in theory - granted definitely a somewhat difficult one to handle. If it turns out that hey, Eevium Z is broken still it can be banned later.
 

tahu

Within me there grows a rhythmic savage beast
is a Pre-Contributor
#5

Growlithe @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 156 Def / 196 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flamethrower
- Roar
- Morning Sun

LC Ubers is dominated by offensive threats, but this guy is imo the best defensive pivot in the meta. Fire is an awesome defensive typing, resisting at least one of Scyther, Sneasel, and Swirlix's STABs. It also gets Intimidate, letting it pivot into Sneasel and Scyther much more easily. Finally, it can phaze, which is amazing in a meta dominated by Stealth Rock-weak physical attackers (Scyther, Sneasel) and one-time setup sweepers (Eevee, Swirlix). A reliable switchin to Sneasel is super important, and Growlithe is imo the best.
 

Sken

her eyes were blue
is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributor
#7


Murkrow @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def / 20 SpD / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Haze
- Mirror Move

Since we carried over the ORAS banlist for SM we didn't have a chance to play with the broken mons and break them even more with z moves and this is a pretty good example of what we could have done. Murkrow's been one of my favorite LC ubers mons so far. This set isn't the bulkiest and it loses to sneasel, but it's still really good. Prankster haze offers incredible utility (and Shrug would agree it's incredibly broken) for this tier full of set up as well as a super strong stab sucker punch, while flyinium z offers a lot of options, either a super strong supersonic skystrike with no recoil able to ohko swirlix bj gligar and many other common threats or prankster z mirror move for a strong z move of whatever your opponent used and a boost for a possible late game sweep.
 

Jac

An eternity in Puyo Hell
is a Battle Server Moderator
#8
speed tiers of all the ubers exclusive mons done poorly by me

they're jac-ked up haha xd

34
scarf sneasel (236+)
unburden drifloon (196+)

33
scarf scyther (236+)

32
chloro tang (196+)

31
scarf sneasel (236)

30
scarf scyther (236)
evoboost eevee (236+)
unburden swirix (204+)
chloro tang (196)
speed boost yanma (236+ at +1)

28
unburden swirlix (204)
evoboost eevee (236)
scarf misdreavus (196+)

24
scarf meditite (196+)
scarf tangela (196+)

23
sneasel (236+)

22
scyther (236+)
scarf gothita (236+)

21
sneasel (236)
scarf gothita (236)

20
yanma (236+)

19
cutiefly (244+)
murkrow (192+)
misdreavus (196+)
gligar (236+)

17
drifloon (196+)
vulpix (236+)

16
tangela (196+)
meditite (196+)

15
gothita (236+)

14
gothita (236)

12
porygon (116)

edit drif has a 0 base lol
edit added scarf missy
edit added +1 sb yanma
 
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#9
All right people, it's time. I wanna bring up a few points about the state of the metagame and how things work, and I would like for others to give their input. I will split the points so you can comment on whichever one you're interested.

Priority: In LC Ubers, I find that that Priority moves are massively important because of the craziness with the speed tiers, and the large amount of threatening setup sweepers roaming around, so having options to take them out once they're weak is very good. Meditite can use a Life Orb Fake Out + Bullet Punch to take Belly Drum Swirlix 100% of the time, although the use of Meditite probably won't be great due to the all the Bug and Flying-types present. Sneasel has Fake out and STAB Ice Shard, which helps out vs Speed Boost Yanma, SunTang, Scyther, and Murkrow (You don't wanna get T-waved by Krow so the priority definitely helps). My point is that priority is important to help take out big threats like Swirlix, Tangela, Eevee, and threats that are simply too fast like Sneasel.

The RPS Lead: The amount of powerful Pokemon weak to Rock-type in this meta obviously screams Stealth Rock. Setting Stealth Rock right away is a huge advantage to neuter a lot of threats starting from turn 1. Gligar and Onix seem to be the most reliable Stealth Rock users, especially Gligar because it can also use Defog, heavily supporting the team. Compound Yanma can put any lead to sleep that isn't Sneasel, Scyther, or a scarfer. This puts the lead choices as:
1) Stealth Rock setter
2) Yanma
3) Things that outspeed/threaten Yanma (Sneasel is a great choice that can invalidate Yanma, Onix, and Gligar, so maybe there's a 4th slot on the RPS for "things that beat Sneasel"?)
Now, perhaps I may be thinking too hard on this, but I do think Stealth Rock mons, and Compound Yanma are very strong leads to go with. Discuss!

Setup Sweepers: There's quite some setup threats in this meta. To name the most famous ones: Scyther, Eevee, and Swirlix. Now, all these 3 just get washed by HazeKrow, especially Eevee, who doesn't have anything else to do after its boosts are removed. Scyther has Swords Dance, reliable recovery, Technician STABs, crazy good speed, and coverage to bypass some would-be checks, although Stealth Rock does limit some of its sweeping potential with a SD set. Swirlix on the other hand, puts the opponent on a 50/50 guessing scenario. If it's Belly Drum Swirlix, Swirlix will automatically become a threat that will end the battle unless you use up your only preparation turn wisely before the onslaught begins. However, taking such safety measure leaves Swirlix open to boosting its defenses with either Cotton Guard or Calm Mind and then slowly taking your team off. There's one setup sweeper I particularly like and I haven't seen anyone mention it in detail yet, and it's simply SD Sneasel. It has the highest speed in the tier, it has insane offensive STABs, AND priority.

tldr; priority is very good. some stealth rock leads < yanma < sneasel > some stealth rock leads. scyther, eevee, swirlix, and sneasel are strong setup sweepers

I hope this all makes sense because I woke up recently and I haven't had my breakfast yet e.e

EDIT: Removed mention of SD Sneasel being immune to Prankster Haze because I was misinformed.
 
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#10
All right people, it's time. I wanna bring up a few points about the state of the metagame and how things work, and I would like for others to give their input. I will split the points so you can comment on whichever one you're interested.

Priority: In LC Ubers, I find that that Priority moves are massively important because of the craziness with the speed tiers, and the large amount of threatening setup sweepers roaming around, so having options to take them out once they're weak is very good. Meditite can use a Life Orb Fake Out + Bullet Punch to take Belly Drum Swirlix 100% of the time, although the use of Meditite probably won't be great due to the all the Bug and Flying-types present. Sneasel has Fake out and STAB Ice Shard, which helps out vs Speed Boost Yanma, SunTang, Scyther, and Murkrow (You don't wanna get T-waved by Krow so the priority definitely helps). My point is that priority is important to help take out big threats like Swirlix, Tangela, Eevee, and threats that are simply too fast like Sneasel.

The RPS Lead: The amount of powerful Pokemon weak to Rock-type in this meta obviously screams Stealth Rock. Setting Stealth Rock right away is a huge advantage to neuter a lot of threats starting from turn 1. Gligar and Onix seem to be the most reliable Stealth Rock users, especially Gligar because it can also use Defog, heavily supporting the team. Compound Yanma can put any lead to sleep that isn't Sneasel, Scyther, or a scarfer. This puts the lead choices as:
1) Stealth Rock setter
2) Yanma
3) Things that outspeed/threaten Yanma (Sneasel is a great choice that can invalidate Yanma, Onix, and Gligar, so maybe there's a 4th slot on the RPS for "things that beat Sneasel"?)
Now, perhaps I may be thinking too hard on this, but I do think Stealth Rock mons, and Compound Yanma are very strong leads to go with. Discuss!

Setup Sweepers: There's quite some setup threats in this meta. To name the most famous ones: Scyther, Eevee, and Swirlix. Now, all these 3 just get washed by HazeKrow, especially Eevee, who doesn't have anything else to do after its boosts are removed. Scyther has Swords Dance, reliable recovery, Technician STABs, crazy good speed, and coverage to bypass some would-be checks, although Stealth Rock does limit some of its sweeping potential with a SD set. Swirlix on the other hand, puts the opponent on a 50/50 guessing scenario. If it's Belly Drum Swirlix, Swirlix will automatically become a threat that will end the battle unless you use up your only preparation turn wisely before the onslaught begins. However, taking such safety measure leaves Swirlix open to boosting its defenses with either Cotton Guard or Calm Mind and then slowly taking your team off. There's one setup sweeper I particularly like and I haven't seen anyone mention it in detail yet, and it's simply SD Sneasel. It's immune to Prankster Haze, it has the highest speed in the tier, it has insane offensive STABs, AND priority.

tldr; priority is very good. some stealth rock leads < yanma < sneasel > some stealth rock leads. scyther, eevee, swirlix, and sneasel are strong setup sweepers

I hope this all makes sense because I woke up recently and I haven't had my breakfast yet e.e
This is a great post. But just a note, SD Sneasel isn't immune to Prankster Haze. Haze doesn't target the opponent, it targets the field, so dark types aren't immune to it. Great post otherwise.
 
#11
This is a great post. But just a note, SD Sneasel isn't immune to Prankster Haze. Haze doesn't target the opponent, it targets the field, so dark types aren't immune to it. Great post otherwise.
OH! ...oh.That's a good thing to note, I just tested it... I definitely will have to rethink some things, then. Although in hindsight, even if you reset Sneasel's boost, Murkrow is pretty much doomed to an Icicle Spear right after, and Swirlix can do the same. Thanks for clearing that up, though!
 
#12

Surskit is bad (Cutiefly) @ Eviolite
Ability: Sweet Veil
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 156 SpA / 36 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sticky Web
- Moonblast
- Roost

My job here is done​
 
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Jac

An eternity in Puyo Hell
is a Battle Server Moderator
#13
TEAM DUMP (it's only 1 team for now lol)

here's a bad tr team i made

enjoy



Dirty Digital (Porygon) @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Def / 76 SpA / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Tri Attack
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Powerful and bulky TR setter who can come in multiple times and even get rid of stuff. Too bad it's Taunt bait.



Parfum (Spritzee) @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 52 HP / 196 Def / 12 SpA / 236 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast

Being resistant to both Taunt and Knock Off for a TR setter is amazing. Wish/Tect is great stalling (even though you dont wanna waste tr turns :/ dont do that) and solo STAB in Moonblast is enough to get the job done. Just wait til USM when we get Nasty Plot :weary:



:clap: (Meditite) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pure Power
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 156 Def / 156 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Poison Jab / Bullet Punch

Ah Meditite, so powerful, great coverage... What's not to love about you? Last slot kinda depends on what you wanna do. I dont have prio overwise on this team other than Sneasel to nab Sneasel but Swirlix needs to get out of here. I dont think it can take ZHB to the head and then CG up but i'll calc and edit this later.




Nacre's Love (Clamperl) @ Deep Sea Tooth
Ability: Shell Armor
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 156 HP / 76 Def / 248 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Substitute
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]

s/o both to Vileman and Truswagblu

Clamperl is amazing in TR boasting one of the highest damage outputs in all of LC. Tiny movepool is barren so like it's whatevs. Sub is a nice little thing when someone tries to play me into something and now they have to deal with letting someone schlurp on some sweet clam juice. Tis fun~



Iwark (Onix) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Rock Blast
- Roar

Onix... At least you set SR well still. Roar/Taunt are nice against set-up sweepers. Rock Blast slaps the fuck outta Sneasel / Scyther but who tf is staying in on this?



Mistress (Sneasel) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Power-Up Punch
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off

Sneasel is love.
Sneasel is life.

Even tho PUP is kinda mediocre damage wise it does give you +1 atk and sets you up for sweeps but like... it's Sneasel.

She perfect :weary:



discuss more ubers stuff pls
 
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