Metagame LC UnderUsed / Tier Shift and Quickbans [See Post #152]

[kingmidas]

I'd be more worried about zigzagoon than cranidos though. We keep talking about counters and checks like 14 speed frillish/pumpkaboo (not super) binacle, and sash solosis but it's as annoying to deal with as shellder.

True but people managed to beat ziggy last gen with scarf frilish/litwick, ofc houndour and stunky are around. Tbh sub 3 attack is best for deep sea tooth, eviolite hits hard enough with Ss alone in lcuu

 

[Artemis Fowl]

GOGO SCARF WATER SPOUT FRILLISH

and fk u lileep

 

[absdaddy]

is it not here yet or did something weird happen? i didnt pay attention tbh

 

[Yagura]

is it not here yet or did something weird happen? i didnt pay attention tbh

Don't worry, changes will occur when server gets reset.

 

[Stratis]

OR you could make an executive decision to keep zigzagoon banned. Literally no one will fight you on it. If someone does they are just being silly and probably have a poor argument to support their reasoning. We all know it doesn't belong in uu and that counter teaming it would be both frustrating and mandatory. I'd even call it more important than having checks to fletchling in normal lc. Omanyte didn't belong in uu and neither does zigzagoon or shellder.

It really doesn't take a suspect test to come to the conclusion that these pokes are too good for this meta. There are some super heavy hitters and hippo sand to worry about (thankfully no vulpix!) already but these specific set up pokes are overly burdensome when you need to attempt to team build prepared for them. It's like dodou/hippo/(elekid before changes) are hanging out in S rank while shellder and zigzagoon are banned/ubers being allowed into the tier. It sucks having to develop a banlist of pokes and perhaps even moves from a tiny, struggling meta like lc uu, but I really feel like it would be better for the tier if we could quickly agree that some thing simply do not belong in this meta just because they fell in usage in normal lc.

If executive decision isn't possible perhaps we could just put it to a small vote. With some simply reasoning we manage to convince Antar to ban Omanyte and I'm sure you are capable of making the same decisions Yagura. Personally, having things like shellder and zigzagoon in LC UU actually make me NOT want to play this meta or team build for it. As far as I'm concerned the less things that feel broken in the tier the more attractive the tier is to other players (I know not true for everyone. Some people like to just abuse OP/broken stuff). I'm sure I can work a shellder/zigzagoon check into teams that will hopefully be usable at the appropriate times but it's definitely awkward and like I'm in normal LC preparing to deal with swirlix/murkrow/misdreavus/etc.

These are just my opinions but I feel that they hold truth. If you think I'm exaggerating or just being unreasonable let me know.

 

[Antar]

The LC UU banlist has been updated!

LC UU Banlist:
Abra, Aipom, Archen, Bunnelby, Carvanha, Chinchou, Corphish, Cottonee, Croagunk, Diglett, Drilbur, Dwebble, Elekid, Ferroseed, Fletchling, Foongus, Gastly, Larvesta, Magnemite, Mienfoo, Munchlax, Onix, Pancham, Pawniard, Ponyta, Porygon, Pumpkaboo-Super, Scraggy, Slowpoke, Snivy, Snubbull, Spritzee, Staryu, Surskit, Timburr, Tirtouga, Vullaby, Vulpix

(Omanyte is still LCBL)

Drops: Bellsprout, Cranidos, Honedge, Houndour, Lileep, Trubbish, Zigzagoon

Note: Smogon staff decided that, since they have different stats, the various Gourgeists should be tiered separately. Given that, all other Pumpkaboo formes will remain LC UU.

Lots of big changes! Some fun new drops, but a lot of top-tier threats banished to LC OU.

 

[Yagura]

ty based Antar
Rises: Elekid, Pancham, Pumpkaboo-Super, Surskit, Slowpoke, Snivy.
Drops: Bellsprout, Cranidos, Honedge, Houndour, Lileep, Trubbish, Zigzagoon


And with that, LC UU Banlist is:
Abra, Aipom, Archen, Bunnelby, Carvanha, Chinchou, Corphish, Cottonee, Croagunk, Diglett, Drilbur, Dwebble, Elekid, Ferroseed, Fletchling, Foongus, Gastly, Larvesta, Magnemite, Mienfoo, Munchlax, Omanyte (BL), Onix, Pancham, Pawniard, Ponyta, Porygon, Pumpkaboo-Super, Scraggy, Slowpoke, Snivy, Snubbull, Spritzee, Staryu, Surskit, Timburr, Tirtouga, Vullaby, Vulpix

Discuss these changes. ​

I removed all the council members so getting a spot in it is easier than ever now, people who were in the council can easily get it back tho.

 

[Camden]

I'm happy to see all of those rises. Elekid was fun but it's his time to shine in OU now. I'm also incredibly thankful at every other rise, especially Pancham.

As for the drops, the big one to look at is Zigzagoon. Zigzagoon has a much easier time sweeping in UU because most of his best checks are in OU. Plus, many of the tools that help Ziggy sweep have UU variants. Drifloon, Stunky, and Koffing exist as excellent Memento users. Purrloin exists to spread Prankster status. Numerous Knock Off users exist in the tier and Shell Smashers still exist as alternate wincons.

On that note...Shell Smashers still exist. To be specific, Binacle, Shellder, and Clamperl are in UU. While I'm not immediately calling for a Shell Smash suspect, I do believe after some testing, we could very well see one happen (and then possibly an Omanyte re-test if SS is banned).

 

[boo836]

Get rid of zig and shell smash. Ban goth

 

[Disaster Area]

Baltoy, Bronzor, Chingling, Drowzee, Duskull, Elgyem, Espurr, Exeggcute, Frillish, Gothita, Inkay, Litwick, Mime Jr., Munna, Natu, Phantump, Ralts, Shuppet, Smoochum, Solosis, Spoink, Woobat, Yamask
list of usable trick room users :]
Note that all of them are dark weak (apart from Ralts/Inkay/Mime Jr.), so full trick room's a bit of a challenge lol.

My old RMT XY LC UU Trick Room Team updated!

Solosis @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 236 SpA / 68 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
- Signal Beam

Inkay @ Berry Juice
Ability: Contrary
Level: 5
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 172 Def / 68 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Superpower
- Psycho Cut
- Night Slash
- Trick Room

Larvitar @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 244 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Stealth Rock

Azurill @ Life Orb
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def / 36 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Return
- Knock Off
- Double-Edge
- Waterfall

Voltorb @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 40 HP / 36 Def / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Foul Play

Frillish (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 236 SpA / 68 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 SpD / null Spe
- Energy Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball

Cranidos sounds really fun to try in TR :o

 

[Anthiese]

NOOOO SNIVY IS NOT LCUU I HAVWE NOTHING TO LIVE FOR

also yeah SS should get s suspect as well.

 

[Yagura]

I've got a couple of suspects at the moment but I won't settle on them until I see some discussion her that lets me pick up the council members and that proves to me that people actually care about LC UU.

 

[Disaster Area]

Yeah, SS and Ziggy are the main suspects I bet.

When we next restart I'll chill in the LC room to chat, but for now I'm locked so it's awkward ;-; I might try and make another couple of teams..

 

[Joltage]

I've been thinking about trying to get into LC UU for a little while now. Mainly because it would allow me to use some cool mons, like Joltik and Growlithe for example, that are generally outclassed in LC OU. But every time I sit down to make a team, I end up scrapping it before I even play a game with it.

Why?

Well, there are a few reasons, chief among them being the fact that nobody plays this tier. I mean, the ladder bottoms out at 167 people for fucks sake. So, even if people try to play, it is extremely unlikely that they even get a game. This makes learning the meta near impossible. (especially with no viability rankings) How are new players supposed to learn the meta and what mons are viable without practice? And honestly, there's not really much incentive to learn the meta anyway. I feel that if there were a LC UU tournament or if it was included as a tier in SPLC more people would play it, and more people would have a reason to play it. But at the moment, from what I have gathered from this thread and general discussion about the meta, LC UU is pretty broken, so it's no wonder it wasn't included in SPLC and has such a small player-base.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that LC UU needs to make itself more relevant. To do this, I propose stabilizing the tier by getting rid of the broken shit, and then having an official ladder tour or something to get some more people playing. With more people involved and playing, LC UU could finally establish itself as a legitimate meta.

 

[Disaster Area]

I would love SPLC to have LC UU next year :^) let's make it happen ;)

 

[Rowan]

I would be very happy to have an LCUU forum minitour but it's in such a state atm that there doesn't seem to be any point. LCUU's 'suspect tests' have just failed due to lack of activity. The fact is there's not enough playerbase to go about doing suspects the way that normal LC does, there has to be a quicker solution, and imo it's do what smogon UU does.

Yagura, I suggest you get a group of volunteers that are the council, just people with dedication to the tier (don't worry about numbers), test a few games and quickban anything that you think is broken. Then once we have a fairly balanced meta, you can possibly think about retests. I don't see the point of everyone posting and trying to prove that shellder/whatever is broken then deciding a council, when let's face it, LCUU has a bunch of broken shit that should just be banned from the word go

 

[antemortem]

I would love SPLC to have LC UU next year :^) let's make it happen ;)

why include a tier of such minimal presence in a tournament like SPLC? if we don't think even minitours would be successful, including it as a major tier alongside regular LC in the section's SPL would be completely redundant

I also concur that there are some things that deserve quickban. I haven't played LCUU very much since myself, Yag/Levi and some others first discussed the format and possible viability rankings, but there are things that literally force you to carry Pokemon like Purrloin + no less than 1 - 2 fodder mons (see: Fake Out users like Meowth, or even Scarf Elekid.. there's very few options but they're pretty much essential, which is absolutely ridiculous) to take down just one Shell Smash user. like I said, ridiculous.

EDIT: ELEKID WAS BANNED fuck sake, please ban Shellder/SS thanks

 

[Disaster Area]

yeah agreed it'd have to be a lot bigger for it to be included; obviously a minitour's a first or second step. Sorting out an LC BL would be a good start though.

 

[Rowan]

why include a tier of such minimal presence in a tournament like SPLC? if we don't think even minitours would be successful, including it as a major tier alongside regular LC in the section's SPL would be completely redundant

it would be included if it gained popularity, and it's not gaining popularity because it's a shit meta with broken things right now, and we've only ever tried doing suspects 1 by 1, and that's fine if it's got the playerbase already because people are willing to do that but when people are getting annoyed by omanyte but nothing is being done about omanyte because gothita is the pokemon that is being suspected, people get bored and quit. We need a playable meta first of all to get the playerbase, then we can try a minitour and if it does become popular, then it could be something for SPLC. SPLC is a long term goal for the tier, but fixing the meta is priority no.1 and increasing playerbase is no.2

 

[Disaster Area]

I've created #lcuu on IRC to discuss LC UU if that helps.. if anyone was on to discuss it at all would be good. :]

 

[antemortem]

fixing the meta is priority no.1 and increasing playerbase is no.2

Fair enough, and that should be as simple as throwing out the things that overcentralize the tier to absolute death, right? I also think, Yagura, that viability rankings should be sorta finally, and that might be a decent platform for figuring out what exactly overcentralizes the meta, if there's anything besides the SS users. Can we post the initial ones that weren't completed in October and work from there?

 

[Disaster Area]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lcuu-208109277
My first battle with a version of my XY team, voltorb>electrode, I'd forgotten inkay'd gained knock off though.

Anyone else have replays I can watch? The more I can see and discuss ideas the better :)

 

[Camden]

I've been thinking about trying to get into LC UU for a little while now. Mainly because it would allow me to use some cool mons, like Joltik and Growlithe for example, that are generally outclassed in LC OU. But every time I sit down to make a team, I end up scrapping it before I even play a game with it.

Why?

Well, there are a few reasons, chief among them being the fact that nobody plays this tier. I mean, the ladder bottoms out at 167 people for fucks sake. So, even if people try to play, it is extremely unlikely that they even get a game. This makes learning the meta near impossible. (especially with no viability rankings) How are new players supposed to learn the meta and what mons are viable without practice? And honestly, there's not really much incentive to learn the meta anyway. I feel that if there were a LC UU tournament or if it was included as a tier in SPLC more people would play it, and more people would have a reason to play it. But at the moment, from what I have gathered from this thread and general discussion about the meta, LC UU is pretty broken, so it's no wonder it wasn't included in SPLC and has such a small player-base.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that LC UU needs to make itself more relevant. To do this, I propose stabilizing the tier by getting rid of the broken shit, and then having an official ladder tour or something to get some more people playing. With more people involved and playing, LC UU could finally establish itself as a legitimate meta.

Holy crap dude slow down. We've been waiting for the tier shift to happen so we could start readjusting the meta. It's Day 1 and you're already barking at us for not having it all ready to meet your every need. Calm down and let us work on things. I promise in due time we'll have appropriate bans taken care of and everything will be fine. Please understand. :]

 

[infamy]

Joltage tbh the best place for getting lc uu battles isnt the ladder. its gnerally a better idea to ask around in the chatroom. i know people like boo836 (not tagging bc tags are annoying) and adam lmbert (tho he hasnt been active lately :/) are usually up for a battle, and im happy to play too once i get a team without elekid lol

also i definitely think shell smash and ziggy should at least be suspected, if not banned. there are so many massively centralizing setup mons right now that stall and even balance really are hard to use. sorry for the sloppy post, im on mobile atm.

 

[Disaster Area]

Voltorb @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 40 HP / 36 Def / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Foul Play

This set's a decent Elekid replacement if you were running scarfkid.