Metagame LC UnderUsed / Tier Shift and Quickbans [See Post #152]

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Camden

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So before we get into the actual suspect test itself, just a quick couple of words. First off, I'm the new co-leader of LC UU, so now you don't have to yell at Yagura for everything now. I'm here, too. :] Second, we're going to be doing our suspect tests in a similar manner to UU, just to keep things simple and speed up the process. We'll have 1-2 victims at a time, and during this time, anyone is more than welcome to come and post your thoughts. After enough discussion and playtesting is done, the council will put the victim(s) to a vote and if a majority is reached (4/7 votes) said victim(s) will be banned.

So for LC UU's first suspect, we've put this cutie on the chopping block:


Gothita has been a subject of controversy for quite some time, and that's simply because most of its well-known checks don't exist in this tier. While Knock Off/Sucker Punch users do exist, we still value the idea of this test to see just how much of an influence it has on this tier. During this time we ask you come up with reasons why Gothita should or shouldn't be banned, play some battle to gain some experience with it if you have to (also posting some good battles showcasing her flaws and strengths is a plus), and in a few days time, the council will make a decision on its fate.

Good luck everybody!
 
Alright, so after a couple of battles in this metagame, I think it would be really fun after a bit of work is done. This post will be about the mons(/moves) I think to be the most centralizing or broken right now, then I will talk about mons I think are very good, but not ban-worthy in the slightest. (This is just an overview of their roles, really, but I think it is fun. :x)

Shell Smash: This group has 3 users, and all 3 of these users are all equally deadly and very centralizing. I also believe the attempt to salvage Shell Smash by banning the single-most broken user of the move was a good attempt, but due to the move as a whole being extremely potent and overpowered, it didn't help all that much. (Free Omanyte and get rid of Shell Smash as a whole imo!)
  • Clamperl: Clamperl hits an insane amount of SpA with Deepsea Tooth, and adding Shell Smash to this equation just makes Clamperl even more deadly. Shell Smash boosts an already insane amount of SpA and alleviates Clamperl's mediocre Speed problems, allowing it to easily sweep through teams. The only switchins for Clamperl I've found as of late are defensive Snover and Slowpoke.
  • Shellder: Shellder has great bulk in this metagame, which allows it to forego Eviolite for my personal favorite on this mon: King's Rock. King's Rock makes an already annoying strategy even more annoying by granting Shellder a 50% chance to flinch its target if it uses a multi-hit move, thanks to Skill Link. Aside from these great coverage moves, Shellder also has priority in Ice Shard if you feel you don't need your Water-type STAB of Razor Shell.
  • Binacle: The last, least used, and often forgotten member of our trio. Due to its extremely low use, most of this section will be that of theorymon. However, it has great STABs of Stone Edge and Razor Shell, the latter being boosted by Tough Claws, as well as other Tough Claws-boosted like Cross Chop and Poison Jab. On top of these, its interesting movepool also has Switcheroo which allows it to dump a Choice Band on a wall like Slowpoke or Hippopotas, making these targets much more easily disposed of due to their now lacking Eviolite. Binacle's typing also allows it to potentially have more opportunities to set up a Shell Smash than the former two, as it can come in on Normal- and Flying-types due to it resisting their STABs. This also makes it a decent check to bird spam.
Doduo: Doduo is probably the most broken on in the metagame, barring those with Shell Smash. Doduo has an incredible offensive prowess on par with no other, 18 Speed which is a God-send,amazing STABs in Brave Bird and Return, and Knock Off allowing it to remove Eviolites to let itself wallbreak much more easily, and this also helps out its Shell Smashing teammates of Shellder and Clamperl. While many think that it will likely just end up killing itself, this usually doesn't occur until after it has done what it needs to allow Shellder or Clamperl sweep and finish the match. This thought is also a testament as to how deadly Doduo truly is.

Gothita: Gothita's ability to trap and ill any targets of choosing makes it easily one of the most broken mons in the metagame. This is highlighted even more so due to the only decent Pursuit Trapper being Stunky, and its SpA stat being pretty decent by LC UU standards. With ORAS tutors, it can now run Trick while having Shadow Tag as an ability, meaning it can wallbreak as well as revenge kill.

Now onto those that are good, but not quite on a ban-worthy level:
Pancham: ORAS gave Pancham an extraordinary amount of toys to play with, including new STABs of Drain Punch and Superpower, and coverage options including Knock Off, Zen Headbutt, Gunk Shot, the Elemental Punches, and many other moves. Pancham is a great pivot due to it hitting great bulk of 25/14/12 while maintaining a strong 18 Atk stat and having the move Parting Shot, which also allows Shell Smashers to set up much more easily. It can also run a decent wallbreaking set that foregoes the use of Parting Shot in order to set up Swords Dance, which hits great bulk of 23/14/12, but also hits 13 Spe and 18 Atk. This set means it hits a good benchmark Speed-wise, and has a 36 Atk stat after a single Sword Dance. However, this Speed stat is still quite slow, meaning it is easily revenge killed by the likes of Doduo, Taillow, Elekid, and many others. However, this cute little panda can be a huge threat for defensively oriented teams to face.

Pumpkaboo: With the addition of Synthesis from ORAS tutors, we now have both an incredible wall and amazing spinblocker in the tier. It hits 25/16/14 defensive stats, and has Will-O-Wisp to support the team further, and has offensive options like Bullet Seed, which has incredible rolls in LC, Shadow Sneak, and Rock Slide. The latter is a neat option for Pumpkaboo because it can hit Flying-types like Doduo and Taillow on the switch as the expect to sponge a Bullet Seed or Shadow Sneak. This little pumpkin has proven to be a decent check toShell Smashers, as well, as it lives Shellder's Icicle Spear, if I am not mistaken.

Skrelp: With Adaptability now available, we've gained yet another wallbreaker. It has a great movepool that includes Scald, Hydro Pump, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Thunderbolt, Icy Wind, and even Dragon Pulse specially, as well as Aqua Tail, Waterfall, Gunk Shot, and Play Rough physically. It also has support options including Haze, Toxic Spikes, and Icy Wind. It also has a great typing which allows it to check every Shell Smasher, Pancham, Riolu, and many other offensive pokemon.

Hype:
Stunky: Probably the best answer to Gothita in LC UU, and Stunky is also the only good Pursuit Trapper we have. It has a good typing, good movepool, and incredible Speed. Its movepool consists of options like Fire Blast (or Flamethrower), Sucker Punch, Play Rough, Sludge Bomb Taunt, Pursuit, Explosion, Memento, and Haze. Due to these assorted moves, it is easy for Stunky to fit onto your team and fulfill roles other than expunging Gothita issues.
Don't forget defog! Also why do people give houndour no love? He traps just fine with either an eviolite or scarf, and does colossal damage when using a mixed attacker set with life orb.
 
Don't forget defog! Also why do people give houndour no love? He traps just fine with either an eviolite or scarf, and does colossal damage when using a mixed attacker set with life orb.
What are you talking about with "don't forget defog"? Also Houndour doesn't have Shadow Tag like Gothita does so it can't trap as effectively, having to rely on Pursuit to trap something while Gothita can use any move from its good movepool to kill/severely weaken something it has trapped.
 
What are you talking about with "don't forget defog"? Also Houndour doesn't have Shadow Tag like Gothita does so it can't trap as effectively, having to rely on Pursuit to trap something while Gothita can use any move from its good movepool to kill/severely weaken something it has trapped.
When Pancham talked about stunky's immensive movepool he forgot about defog. Also i was saying that houndour is another good pursuit trapper, because many people were saying that stunky was the only good one. Obviously nothing can trap as well as gothita in LC.
 
Pancham's post is really old and before Dour was around; Dour's currently A+ in the viability rankings and functions as a good trapper, revenge-killer, and wall-breaker all in one set.

Anyway, time to talk a little bit about Goth. Gothita's ability Shadow Tag lets it become a pain in the behind for most teams, as it can trap and kill a huge portion of the meta with its STAB Psychic and excellent coverage in Tbolt and Eball. However, Goth needs support to break through some of the things it wants to trap, for example it can not OHKO even the less bulky variants of Skrelp from full. It also loses to fighting types, as +2 HJK from Riolu OHKOes Goth after SR, and Scarf Mankey will just u-turn out. I went through the A and S of viability rankings to see how well Goth traps the meta (i'm assuming Gothita has been brought in safely for these):
S-Gothita: lol it can just switch out into a counter
-Former smashers: it beats them all with energy ball, but scarf shellder comes very close to killing it if modest goth speed tie. Goth Wins
A
-Doduo: One of the main reasons to use Goth is it's way to remove LO Doduo from play with Tbolt. If it's scarf you lose but you'll be able to tell. Goth wins
-Houndour: Trapped rip Goth loses
-Skrelp: 252+ SpA Gothita Psychic vs. 36 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Skrelp: 14-20 (63.6 - 90.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock needs koff or more damage to kill, modest Skrelp has a 56.3% chance to ko with Hpump. Goth wins with support
-Taillow: That Tbolt Kills, Quick Attack hurts but whatever Goth wins
-Cranidos: You get outsped and bopped if scarf, or if you're timid you probably speed tie. Goth usually OHKOes after rocks, but scarf crani is risky. Goth might win
-Sandshrew: Thing bulky af and lives eball, kills goth with Knock off. Get some prior damage or k off support and you're good tho. Goth wins with support
-Shellos: You got Tbolt, but that's only a 2hko after rocks. Meanwhile, Scald 3hkoes. Still wins, but would definitely like some prior damage. Goth wins
-Spinarak: Obv loses if sash is still in tact. Sucker Punch doesn't kill. Goth wins with support
-Darumaka: Probably Scarf and Goth doesn't kill with Psychic. Fish for a miss or win speed tie after sr and recoil. Goth will probably lose
-Hippopotas: 2HKO with Eball, but take heavy damage from EQ. Goth Wins
-Inkay: inb4 HP Bug Goth Loses
-Lileep: You can give it a choice scarf Successfully wallbreaks
-Purrloin: No Goth Loses
-Stunky: Lol Goth Loses
-Tentacool: Lives Psychic and can Knock Off the Scarf, which doesn't kill but cripples Goth Goth wins with support
-Torchic: It'll just pass out
Goth clearly checks a vast number of Pokemon, but for many of them it needs support in order to do so. Goth is really just too weak to be able to function without support from teammates. That being said, the support is not hard to give, as it comes in the way of Knock Off and slow U-turning. Its teammates can easily support it to let it do its job, but a truly broken mon shouldn't need support to do its job. It does tend to get at least one kill per game, but it's not hard to take care of after it's killed the mon. Stunky is no longer the only pursuit trapper, as Houndour and Honedge join LC UU and can trap Goth. Even without pursuit trappers, Goth nearly always has to swap after a kill, causing a shift in momentum. Goth has flaws, but it is still an incredibly useful mon that can rkill almost anything and stallbreak too. My opinion as of now is that Gothita is an S rank mon not quite to the point of broken, but still incredibly useful and kind of annoying to face.
 

Corporal Levi

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After playing numerous LC UU games both with and against Gothita, I think I'm less impressed with it than I initially was, and am willing to argue that the far lower amount of bulky cores to dismantle compared to LC OU has left Gothita as actually less broken than it is there. What made many people consider Gothita suspect-worthy in LC OU was that it severely hampered an entire playstyle in the defensive playstyle, but defensive teams are only barely relevant in LC UU, where many other wall-breakers, ones that rely on raw damage output, are much more at home, and are just as important in obscuring defensive archetypes.
I would like to say here and now that stall isn't as bad as I initially made it out to be; after chatting briefly with Stratis on the topic and trying it out for myself, I've decided that the defensive Pokemon available are probably good enough to form a cohesive team. I still wouldn't consider defensive archetypes good, let alone great, but they're at least viable against certain other archetypes, specifically weather, due to how easy it is to just stack weather checks.
With that being said, it can't be denied that offense in LC UU is noticeably better, and much, much more versatile, arguably more so than even balanced archetypes; if you thought that was the case for LC OU, LC UU turns it up to eleven. The huge number of potent wall-breakers and overall ridiculously powerful Pokemon turns it into a metagame where it's kill or be killed, and Pokemon tend to faint quite quickly. This renders a single revenge-kill a lot less impressive, because it's not rare to have a KO per 1-2 turns for close to the entire match; revenge-kills are pretty much how you KO most Pokemon, so ditching a teammate and then bringing a faster Pokemon in isn't limited to just Gothita, and the raw power of some of these faster Pokemon means that switching out results in a lost teammate as well. It doesn't help that Stunky and especially Houndour are both popular and extremely dangerous, regardless of Gothita's existence, and both are capable of guaranteeing that Gothita will not be trapping more than one Pokemon.
At the end of the day, I feel as if Gothita's supposedly broken strengths simply aren't that broken in practice.
 

Camden

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While not all the votes have been cast, we have already reached the majority, and Gothita will not be banned. Quite simply, the metagame is much too aggressive for Gothita to dominate, and while it is still a very solid Pokemon, it fails to perform its job to the point where entire teams are hampered because of its existence. It also struggles in numerous 1-on-1 match-ups with A Rank Pokemon, and needs support to beat them.

If in the future Gothita proves to be more of a threat, we can possibly look at another suspect discussion, but as it stands, the metagame will remain as is. Have fun, everyone!
 

Corporal Levi

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Hey, so at this point, LC UU is still a developing tier, so there's only a few resources up to help get people into it; there also happens to be a tour sign-up going on, and people who have little to no experience in LC UU or, in some cases, LC in general, have signed up. This isn't anybody's fault or even necessarily a bad thing, because it'll give the tier an opportunity to develop more, but as a result, I have seen a few people asking for sample teams and such. I may get to posting some teams soon, but for now, I figured I would post some examples of sets for Pokemon that are ranked highly on the viability thread so that building your own team may be a bit easier for those of you who are newer, since a lot of the sets have differences from the LC OU analysis sets due to the different metagames, not to mention several important Pokemon don't have analyses at all (Hoppip 1/4 smh). Keep in mind that these aren't the only sets available (Hoppip!!!), just ones that you may commonly find and are generally considered viable and effective in the current state that the metagame is in.
I will be editing this as the viability rankings shift, if you guys find it helpful of course. In the mean time, I have taken the liberty to place Pokemon in the ranks where I expect them to be moved to soon, so if you don't see the Pokemon in its actual ranking, it may be a position higher or lower.

Feel free to post any comments, questions, or suggestions you have!

A+:
Doduo @ Life Orb
Ability: Early Bird
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 19 HP
- Knock Off
- Brave Bird
- Quick Attack
- Return

Doduo @ Life Orb
Ability: Early Bird
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 19 HP
- Knock Off
- Brave Bird
- Quick Attack
- Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fighting

Doduo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Early Bird
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Drill Peck

Gothita @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
- Trick

Gothita @ Eviolite
Ability: Shadow Tag
Level: 5
EVs: 40 Def / 160 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
or, if HP Fighting isn't run,
36 Def / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Heal Bell / Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Energy Ball

Houndour @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 120 Atk / 120 SpA / 236 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 9 HP / 30 Atk / 30 SpA
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Ground]
- Pursuit

Houndour @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 40 Atk / 200 SpA / 236 Spe
Naive / Rash Nature
- Pursuit
- Dark Pulse / Sucker Punch
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Ground] / Destiny Bond

Houndour @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 116 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpA / 76 SpD / 76 Spe
Serious Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Blast
- Will-O-Wisp

Riolu @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Thunder Punch / Crunch
- Copycat

Riolu @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 36 Atk / 116 Def / 196 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Copycat

Endure/Substitute + Salac/Liechi Berry + Reversal seems a bit gimmicky but it looks to have the potential to be really strong without things like Spritzee and Foongus walling it. With that being said, the standard Swords Dance and Bulk Up sets are fairly easy to set up, require little to no external support, and are, of course, ridiculously effective, so I don't see as much reason to run such a gimmicky set. Thoughts?

Shellder @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell
- Rapid Spin

Shellder @ Eviolite
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 236 Atk / 156 SpD
Careful Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Ice Shard / Razor Shell
- Rapid Spin

Shellder @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell
- Ice Shard

Skrelp @ Eviolite
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 116 Def / 196 SpA / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sludge Wave / Sludge Bomb
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt / Toxic Spikes
- Scald

Skrelp @ Eviolite
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpA / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
or
EVs: 116 HP / 116 Def / 36 SpA / 196 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Toxic Spikes / Sludge Wave
- Scald
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Skrelp @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt / Scald / Surf
- Substitute

Any of these sets can be switched over to a physical set, with Gunk Shot and Waterfall or Aqua Tail being used as the STAB moves instead. Just don't forget to change the EVs and nature as well :P

Taillow @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Brave Bird
- Quick Attack
- Protect / U-Turn

Taillow @ Life Orb
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 19 HP / 30 Atk / 30 SpA
- Boomburst
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Ground]
- U-turn
- Brave Bird

Taillow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Rash / Naive Nature
IVs: 19 HP / 30 Atk / 30 SpA
- Boomburst
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Ground]
- U-turn
- Brave Bird


A:
Cranidos @ Life Orb / Eviolite
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 212 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake / Superpower
- Substitute / Rock Polish

Cranidos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force / Mold Breaker
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 212 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Zen Headbutt
- Superpower / Earthquake
- Head Smash

Sandshrew @ Eviolite / Berry Juice
Ability: Sand Rush / Sand Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 236 Atk / 76 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock / Rock Tomb / Rock Slide

Sandshrew @ Life Orb / Eviolite
Ability: Sand Rush
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance / Rock Slide
- Substitute / Rapid Spin

Shellos @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
Level: 5
EVs: HP / 140 Def / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Scald
- Stockpile / Clear Smog
- Toxic / Clear Smog

Spinarak @ Focus Sash / Eviolite
Ability: Swarm
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- Sucker Punch
- Megahorn
- Protect / Toxic Spikes


A-:
Darumaka @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Hustle
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Zen Headbutt / Fire Punch
- Superpower / Fire Punch
- U-turn

Darumaka @ Berry Juice
Ability: Hustle / Inner Focus
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz / Fire Punch
- Zen Headbutt / Superpower
- U-Turn / Superpower
- Will-O-Wisp / Encore / Fire Punch

Hippopotas @ Eviolite / Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 5
EVs: 132 HP / 20 Atk / 212 Def / 100 SpD / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock / Whirlwind
- Rock Slide / Whirlwind

Inkay @ Berry Juice / Eviolite
Ability: Contrary
Level: 5
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 12 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Psycho Cut
- Substitute / Taunt / Destiny Bond

Inkay @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
Level: 5
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 12 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Psycho Cut
- Switcheroo / Destiny Bond

Lileep @ Eviolite
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 220 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Ancient Power
- Giga Drain
- Stealth Rock / Earth Power / Toxic

Purrloin @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 108 HP / 36 Atk / 60 Def / 140 SpD / 148 Spe
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Thunder Wave
- Encore / Sucker Punch
- U-turn / Taunt

I don't have too much experience with or against a Berry Juice Unburden set, but I'm curious as to how viable it actually is in practice. Perhaps one of you could try it out and let me know how it goes :O

STARMASTER (Stunky) @ Eviolite
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 172 HP / 220 Def / 108 SpD / 4 Spe
Serious Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Sludge Bomb
- Defog

STARMASTER (Stunky) @ Eviolite / Berry Juice
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 172 HP / 92 Atk / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch / Play Rough
- Pursuit
- Defog / Taunt
- Memento

STARMASTER (Stunky) @ Life Orb
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Sucker Punch / Play Rough
- Crunch
- Defog / Pursuit
- Memento / Sludge Bomb

STARMASTER (Stunky) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Play Rough
- Memento

Tentacool @ Berry Juice / Eviolite
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Knock Off / Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Sludge Wave / Sludge Bomb
- Rapid Spin

Tentacool @ Berry Juice / Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 19 HP (only if Life Orb is run)
- Acid Spray
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Sludge Bomb / Sludge Wave
- Giga Drain / Rapid Spin / Knock Off

Torchic @ Berry Juice / Eviolite
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 36 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Bold / Impish Nature
- Curse / Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- Substitute / Fire Blast / Flame Charge

Torchic @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 9 HP
- Protect
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Baton Pass

Tyrunt @ Eviolite
Ability: Strong Jaw
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 204 Atk / 212 Spe
Jolly / Careful / Adamant Nature
- Thunder Fang
- Outrage
- Ice Fang / Earthquake / Stone Edge
- Dragon Dance

Tyrunt @ Eviolite / Berry Juice
Ability: Strong Jaw
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 140 Def / 236 SpD / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Thunder Fang / Rock Tomb
- Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock

Tyrunt @ Eviolite
Ability: Strong Jaw
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 60 Def / 236 SpD
Impish Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Tail
- Rest

Tyrunt @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Strong Jaw
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 204 Atk / 212 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Fang
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang / Stone Edge / Rock Slide


B+:
Dratini @ Life Orb / Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
Level: 5
EVs: 244 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
IVs: 17 HP (ignore this if Eviolite is used)
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance

Drifloon @ Berry Juice
Ability: Unburden
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 4 Def / 36 SpA / 84 SpD / 116 Spe
Adamant / Lonely Nature
- Substitute
- Knock Off / Shadow Ball
- Acrobatics
- Destiny Bond / Will-O-Wisp

Drifloon @ Berry Juice
Ability: Unburden
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 88 Def / 200 SpA / 8 SpD / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fighting] / Baton Pass
- Calm Mind

Growlithe @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 36 Atk / 156 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge / Close Combat
- Morning Sun

Growlithe @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 156 Def / 40 SpA / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Morning Sun

Kabuto @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor / Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 76 SpD
or
EVs: 196 HP / 36 Atk / 196 Def / 76 SpD
Adamant / Brave Nature
- Waterfall / Scald
- Knock Off / Stealth Rock
- Aqua Jet / Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

Kabuto @ Life Orb / Eviolite / Damp Rock
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 36 Def / 76 SpD / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Waterfall
- Rock Slide / Aqua Jet / Rapid Spin
- Rain Dance

Machop @ Choice Scarf
Ability: No Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Dynamic Punch
- Earthquake / Thunder Punch
- Fire Punch / Thunder Punch

Machop @ Eviolite / Berry Juice
Ability: No Guard / Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 156 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Dynamic Punch / Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch

Magby @ Berry Juice
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Fire Punch
- ThunderPunch
- Mach Punch

Magby @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 9 HP
- Flare Blitz
- Overheat
- ThunderPunch
- Mach Punch

Mankey @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
- U-turn

Mankey @ Life Orb / Eviolite / Berry Juice
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Bulk Up

Omanyte @ Splash Plate / Life Orb / Damp Rock / Eviolite
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 23 HP (only if LO is run)
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Rain Dance

Omanyte @ Focus Sash / Eviolite
Ability: Weak Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock / Toxic Spikes
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power

Omanyte @ Eviolite
Ability: Shell Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 156 SpD
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes

Omanyte @ Eviolite
Ability: Shell Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 196 Def / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Ancient Power

Omanyte @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Omanyte @ Focus Sash / Eviolite
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes / Earth Power

Rufflet (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Hustle
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 12 Atk / 116 Def / 196 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Aerial Ace
- Superpower / Return / Substitute
- Bulk Up

Rufflet (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Hustle
Level: 5
EVs: 252 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Return
- Superpower
- Aerial Ace


B:
Amaura @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Refrigerate
Level: 5
EVs: 60 HP / 220 SpA / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nature Power / Hyper Voice
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Beam / Ancient Power

Amaura @ Eviolite / Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
Level: 5
EVs: 60 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpA / 12 SpD / 148 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Hyper Voice
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt

Anorith @ Eviolite / Berry Juice
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Blast
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock

Anorith @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 9 HP
- Aqua Jet
- Rock Blast
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin / Swords Dance

Aron @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 196 Def / 116 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock / Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Metal Burst

Aron @ Eviolite
Ability: Rock Head
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Head Smash
- Stealth Rock

Aron @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Iron Head / Earthquake
- Rock Polish / Earthquake
- Hone Claws / Earthquake

Axew @ Eviolite / Life Orb / Berry Juice
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 5
EVs: 220 Atk / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 7 HP (only if Life Orb is run)
- Dragon Dance
- Superpower
- Outrage
- Dual Chop / Substitute / Swords Dance

Axew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 5
EVs: 68 HP / 220 Atk / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dual Chop
- Superpower
- Facade

Frillish @ Eviolite
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SpD
Modest Nature
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Scald
- Shadow Ball

Frillish @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain

Lickitung @ Eviolite
Ability: Oblivious
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 156 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Body Slam / Heal Bell
- Knock Off / Heal Bell

Pumpkaboo-Large @ Eviolite
Ability: Frisk
Level: 5
EVs: 244 HP / 68 Atk / 196 Def
Careful Nature
- Synthesis
- Will-O-Wisp
- Bullet Seed
- Shadow Sneak

Pumpkaboo-Large @ Eviolite
Ability: Frisk
Level: 5
EVs: 84 HP / 148 Atk / 36 Def / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Bullet Seed
- Will-O-Wisp
- Destiny Bond

Pumpkaboo-Small @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
Level: 5
EVs: 228 Atk / 36 Def / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 11 HP
- Bullet Seed
- Shadow Sneak
- Rock Slide
- Destiny Bond

Snover @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 5
EVs: 100 Atk / 184 SpA / 196 Spe
Naive Nature
- Giga Drain
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Ice Shard / Wood Hammer

Snover @ Eviolite
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 100 Atk / 36 Def / 184 SpA / 120 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Giga Drain
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Ice Shard

Snover @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 180 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Bullet Seed
- Ice Shard
- Swords Dance

Solosis @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator / Magic Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 120 Def / 80 SpA / 40 SpD
Quiet / Modest Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / NaN Spe
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Recover / Signal Beam
- Trick Room / Signal Beam

Solosis @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 240 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / NaN Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Signal Beam / Thunder Wave / Psyshock


B-:
Buizel @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Veil / Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Punch
- Switcheroo

Buizel @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Rain Dance / Power-Up Punch

Chespin @ Eviolite
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 28 Atk / 76 Def / 156 SpD
Careful Nature
- Seed Bomb
- Rock Slide / Drain Punch
- Synthesis
- Bulk Up / Spikes

Deerling @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 116 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aromatherapy
- Seed Bomb
- Return
- Baton Pass / Wild Charge / Synthesis / Thunder Wave

Deerling @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sap Sipper
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return / Double-Edge
- Seed Bomb
- Wild Charge / Jump Kick
- Baton Pass

Meowth @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 19 HP
- Fake Out
- Feint / Return
- Knock Off / Return
- U-turn / Taunt

Minccino @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tail Slap
- Knock Off
- Seed Bomb
- Wake-Up Slap / U-Turn

Minccino @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tail Slap
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Seed Bomb / Wake-Up Slap

Teddiursa @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat / Earthquake
- Crunch / Swords Dance
- Protect / Swords Dance

Voltorb @ Life Orb
Ability: Static
Level: 5
EVs: 40 Def / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 19 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Taunt / Thunder Wave

Voltorb @ Damp Rock
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 240 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid / Naive Nature
- Thunder
- Rain Dance
- Volt Switch / Explosion
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Water]

Zorua @ Life Orb / Blackglasses
Ability: Illusion
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 19 HP
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit / Aerial Ace
- Swords Dance / U-Turn / Memento
 
Last edited:
I just wanted to say that I really love playing this tier now that the broken stuff is gone. In the games I've played, I've seen so many different and viable mons and strats, which is just awesome, especially when you look at the general lack of diversity and creativity in normal LC. And while I think everyone can agree that the meta really lends itself more to offensive playstyles, I'd like to hear other peoples thoughts on the actual viability of the more defensive playstyles. Personally, I have yet to create a truly defensive team in LC UU (closest I've come is like balanced offense, and honestly, I'm not really one for really defensive playstyles) however, I do feel like they definitely have a niche in the meta as there are a few pretty decent bulky options available in mons like Hippo, and Lickitung, for example. I know Levi has messed with more defensive teams, and they seem to be fairly competent and definitely can break down some opposing offenses, especially weather teams, but I'm just interested to know how everyone feels about defensive teams through their experiences playing with or against them.
 
what is zenbutt hitting on cranidos levi

Ice beam's also a cool option since sandshrew's one of like 3 mons that can actually switch into dos
 

Camden

Hey, it's me!
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
what is zenbutt hitting on cranidos levi

Ice beam's also a cool option since sandshrew's one of like 3 mons that can actually switch into dos
Zen Headbutt can hit fighting-types as well as Koffing and a few others.

On that note, I absolutely adore using mixed Cranidos.
 
I have such a memorable presence that a post I made last year was quoted recently :')

Anyways, thisntier definitely looks a lot more fun with all the Smash hype being in the past. However, I still have reservations about Doduo continuing to be a thing here, but alas I am in the minority on that front. (Kudos to Stratis for suggesting to suspect test Doduo when all the other weak af council members voted not to) Houndoge definitely looks like it is as good as I had theorymoned it would be all those months ago, and Gothita definitely seems like it was overhyped in hindsight. That being said, there are several fun mons that I still want to try out, including Finneon because bird fish can slay.

I look forward to delving back into this metagame very soon!
 
Lots of changes to LC UU this time around, guys.

Corphish moved from LC OU to LC UU
Vulpix moved from LC OU to LC UU
Skrelp moved from LC UU to LC OU
Slowpoke moved from LC OU to LC UU
Houndour moved from LC UU to LC OU
Omanyte moved from LC UU to LC OU
Pancham moved from LC OU to LC UU
Gothita moved from LC UU to LC OU
Shellder moved from LC UU to LC OU
Guess that Gothita suspect test is moot now.

As a side-note: if LC UU ever gets to a state where we're seeing upwards of say 1k battles per month, I'll put together an LC NU banlist as well.
 

Camden

Hey, it's me!
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Alright folks, as Antar linked, there has been a big shift in the tier:

Corphish moved from LC OU to LC UU
Vulpix moved from LC OU to LC UU
Skrelp moved from LC UU to LC OU
Slowpoke moved from LC OU to LC UU
Houndour moved from LC UU to LC OU
Omanyte moved from LC UU to LC OU
Pancham moved from LC OU to LC UU
Gothita moved from LC UU to LC OU
Shellder moved from LC UU to LC OU

So we lost Skrelp, Houndour, Omanyte (it was gone last month but now it's Antar official), Gothita, and Shellder! In return, we have gained Corphish, Vulpix, Slowpoke, and Pancham!

Expect a ruling very soon concerning Vulpix, and a possible Suspect vote/test for a couple of the others.
 

Anthiese

formerly Jac
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Alright folks, as Antar linked, there has been a big shift in the tier:

Corphish moved from LC OU to LC UU
Vulpix moved from LC OU to LC UU
Skrelp moved from LC UU to LC OU
Slowpoke moved from LC OU to LC UU
Houndour moved from LC UU to LC OU
Omanyte moved from LC UU to LC OU
Pancham moved from LC OU to LC UU
Gothita moved from LC UU to LC OU
Shellder moved from LC UU to LC OU

So we lost Skrelp, Houndour, Omanyte (it was gone last month but now it's Antar official), Gothita, and Shellder! In return, we have gained Corphish, Vulpix, Slowpoke, and Pancham!

Expect a ruling very soon concerning Vulpix, and a possible Suspect vote/test for a couple of the others.
>lost dour + skrelp

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 

Anthiese

formerly Jac
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
inb4 pix quickban bc sprout is stupid af and we dont have an immediate check to it except for chespin.

i'll miss not being able to run solar helioptile however
 

Camden

Hey, it's me!
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
The server reset occurred today, which means LC UU is now playable in its current format! Feel free to challenge fellow players, host tours, or participate in a dead ladder. lol

Also, go ahead and spam Vulpix to your heart's content today because I'm probably banning it tomorrow.
 
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