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Resource LC Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Corporal Levi
- Start date
- Status
Goldeen gets Knock Off bro...
I've used an eviolite stunky with pursuit/sucker/taunt/memento with some success but meh. Also gets Play Rough from gen 6 but illegal with the god dark STABs
Leave it down low. it's a good mon but eviolite has ruined it's claim to fame to ghost trap. at least imo. also power creep, and shit stats and other obvious shoutouts to why stunky gets the stinky boot.
GlassGlaceon
My heart has now been set on love
Forgive me...
That being said what else can Stunky even do besides be bad at defogging and be bad at ghost trapping?
GlassGlaceon
My heart has now been set on love
Stunky Can Run an Effective all-out attacker set with life orb, as it hits 17 speed even with a non-boosting nature. It can utilize moves like Play Rough, Sludge bomb, dark pulse, and more to really just demolish semi-stall cores like slowpoke/mienfoo/foongus and other things but it's not really too useful outside of that
All his good dark STABs that arent Crunch arent compatible with Play Rough tho...
I should change my set and run more Speed then lol
Abra isn't outclassed by Misdreavus whatsoever. Whereas Misdreavus finds itself locked in, Abra is a 141 that takes down virtually every frightening threat in this meta. Being able to take down the biggest Pokemon in themeta isn't something to scoff at, it's something that is incredibly useful.
Right now, most LC teams are pretty solid with just five pokes.insurance policies like Abra are actually very good more because of that.
Right now, most LC teams are pretty solid with just five pokes.insurance policies like Abra are actually very good more because of that.
oh man this is probably one of the best posts that summarizes abra up, nicely written
its still not A tho
Shhh I wrote this in my phone before I had my coffee. Whati was trying to say was that as a 141 That isn't locked in, Abra doesn't become easy set up fodder. It's an easy sacrifice that forces the tempo of the game to hasten. I don't know many Pokemon that can do that rule as well as Abra.
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
steel nerf too lustrous palkia.
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
He meant bronzor obviously. Also, its outclassed by most stealth rock users and magnemite is better with a recycle+berry juice set. Set up fodder for a lot of things.
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
Yes. Knock Off wasn't a thing, steel nerf didn't exist, and it was possibly one of the best stealth rock users in that gen. Things are very different this gen and bronzor is quite hard to use now.
Bronzor's main niche last gen was countering sand, which isn't a playstyle that's used anymore. The steel nerf and Knock Off obviously didn't help its case either, it doesn't really wall anything anymore and its basically a free switch in for the 2 most common pokemon in the meta.
If there is a B/C split, heres my opinion on them if anyone cares
B Split: http://pastebin.com/ujiEqbkh
C Split: http://pastebin.com/4yNcyehD
B Split: http://pastebin.com/ujiEqbkh
C Split: http://pastebin.com/4yNcyehD
I'm not sure how I'm going to judge the trapper mons just yet
Will go over other pokes later
B+
Abra - The discussion for moving Abra to A- has certainly been warranted; it can pose as a brilliant safety net with its focus sash set or an effective wall-breaker with its Life Orb set. The former set gets walled by a bunch of things and the latter dies to everything, but it is still very potent and ridiculously easy to fit on a variety of offensive teams.
Bunnelby - It's incredibly frail and has somewhat disappointing Speed, but the raw power Bunnelby is able to bring to the table can be a huge boon for teams looking for an excellent revenge-killer or wall-breaker. Access to a powerful U-Turn makes it particularly effective as a Choice Scarf user, able to deal heavy damage while maintaining momentum, and its Return is able to OHKO a variety of non-Eviolite Pokemon that don't resist it, allowing it to act as an excellent late-game sweeper. Taking massive chunks from powerful priority doesn't help its cause, but at least Bunnelby itself has access to Quick Attack, allowing it to pick off weakened opponents.
Ferroseed - An absolutely phenomenal supportive movepool allows Ferroseed to really function on teams that require its strengths, and its defensive typing coupled with great defensive stats mean it can take advantage of said movepool extremely well. Although it can be set-up bait to a few Pokemon and is quite prone to being worn down, the utility it brings is considerable.
Onix - I can see people disagreeing on this one especially, but I feel as if Onix is around on par with Dwebble as a Suicide Lead; although it misses out on Spikes and Knock Off, access to Taunt, Dragon Tail, Explosion and STAB Earthquake coupled with higher base Speed arguably allow it to hold its own in that role. I know I've personally experienced more success with Onix because there are less Pokemon that are able to prevent it from performing its job. Of course, although I'm not a huge fan of Dwebble's Shell Smash set, it's a still a much better sweeper than Onix.
Zigzagoon - Here we have one of the best win conditions available. Although support is certainly required to break Sturdy/phazing Rock-types/fast Ghost-types, there are little to no Pokemon that are able to sweep with such ease once the few checks and counters the opponent might have are removed. If your team has Zigzagoon, your opponent has to play much, much more carefully due to the incredible sweeping potential Zigzagoon carries. However, it's not quite top-tier because it still almost always only gets one chance to sweep; if it can't pull the sweep off the first time around, it generally turns into a dead weight.
B
Gastly - Being incredibly frail, not quite reaching 19 Speed, and suffering competition from Misdreavus as a Ghost-type don't help its cause, but Gastly remains a really nice offensive Pokemon simply because almost nothing popular right now can safely switch into it. STAB Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball coupled with the coverage options it needs let Gastly hit the metagame for massive damage, and it can deal with its would-be counters through moves like Substitute and Destiny Bond. I don't think it should be higher than this because its defenses are still awful and it doesn't have a very notable ability like Abra or Bunnelby, but it can be a huge asset to offensive teams that need its power.
Houndour - Being able to check Misdreavus is a huge boon, as is its powerful Sucker Punch, but I don't want to put Houndour any higher than this due to its overall frailty, allowing it to be checked by offensive teams fairly easily. Granted, it has ways to get around these checks, and its ability to 2HKO standard Spritzee after Stealth Rock with 36 SpA EVs and a neutral nature is always welcome, but when I used Houndour in the past, I often just found its low defenses and weakness to Stealth Rock too debilitating against teams with a solid switch-in to it.
Larvesta - I really do find Larvesta a bit underwhelming at times; Stealth Rock is more popular than ever, and Larvesta doesn't even carry an immunity to Spikes to compensate. With that being said, Archen and Drilbur are both wonderful options to remove hazards, and if this support is granted, Larvesta can make a for a solid check to a variety of threatening Pokemon such as Pawniard and Mienfoo, while firing off STAB U-Turns to maintain momentum and severely injure switch-ins. It requires quite a bit of support to function to its fullest extent, but if this support is granted, Larvesta can still be a valuable asset.
Lickitung - I've been using Lickitung extensively recently and this is where I think it belongs. Although it is indeed somewhat under par offensively and weak to a very common offensive type while having only one immunity, sheer bulk and an exceptional supportive movepool make it an absolutely amazing addition to a number of defensive teams that don't mind a drop in momentum. Lickitung is comparable to Spritzee in its role; although Spritzee has an arguably better defensive typing and Moonblast to fit onto offensive and balanced teams more readily, Lickitung has noticeably better mixed bulk and access to useful moves in Knock Off and Dragon Tail.
Munchlax - I haven't seen Munchlax much, which is probably warranted due to the ubiquity of Fighting-types. However, Munchlax should most certainly not be discounted as a threat; even though it lacks a lot of resistances and has to either rely on a Knock Off-weak method to recover its health or gamble with Sleep Talk, its statistical bulk is still very good, to say the least, and it still has as much base Attack as Mienfoo and Pawniard, with powerful STAB moves for good neutral damage.
Omanyte - Omanyte is an outstanding win condition. It is able to set up on a variety of popular Pokemon, and can sweep quite a few teams after just one turn of set-up. It can definitely be revenge-killed, and bulkier Pokemon can still live through a +2 Surf to hit its -1 defenses hard, but with just a bit of support, Omanyte is able to pull its weight and more on teams looking for a strong late-game sweeper.
Slowpoke - I've used Slowpoke a lot and I think it's still a viable choice. A weakness to Knock Off on a defensive Pokemon is always bothersome, but Slowpoke's advantages still allow it to be quite useful on a lot of defensive teams. Regenerator and a few useful resistances make Slowpoke a good defensive pivot, while stellar physical bulk and a decent supportive movepool means Slowpoke can do stuff while it's on the field.
Snubbull - Another Pokemon I've been using extensively as a teammate for Lickitung especially, Snubbull can fit on all kinds of teams that need a good switch-in to Fighting-types. It's quite powerful and has some good coverage options, making it difficult to switch into for offensive Pokemon, and can support the team with Heal Bell or Thunder Wave. It's really a shame that Snubbull doesn't get reliable recovery outside of RestTalk, although such a set isn't actually too bad from my experience.
Vulpix - Even though it's frail and weak to Stealth Rock, Vulpix brings to the table tons of damage; Choice Specs Overheat is able to cleanly OHKO 76 HP / 156 SDef Eviolite Timburr. Drought is also cool for supporting specific Pokemon, although I feel as if Vulpix's damage output is a slightly more notable trait.
B-
Doduo -
Koffing
Snover
Torchic
Will go over other pokes later
B+
Abra - The discussion for moving Abra to A- has certainly been warranted; it can pose as a brilliant safety net with its focus sash set or an effective wall-breaker with its Life Orb set. The former set gets walled by a bunch of things and the latter dies to everything, but it is still very potent and ridiculously easy to fit on a variety of offensive teams.
Bunnelby - It's incredibly frail and has somewhat disappointing Speed, but the raw power Bunnelby is able to bring to the table can be a huge boon for teams looking for an excellent revenge-killer or wall-breaker. Access to a powerful U-Turn makes it particularly effective as a Choice Scarf user, able to deal heavy damage while maintaining momentum, and its Return is able to OHKO a variety of non-Eviolite Pokemon that don't resist it, allowing it to act as an excellent late-game sweeper. Taking massive chunks from powerful priority doesn't help its cause, but at least Bunnelby itself has access to Quick Attack, allowing it to pick off weakened opponents.
Ferroseed - An absolutely phenomenal supportive movepool allows Ferroseed to really function on teams that require its strengths, and its defensive typing coupled with great defensive stats mean it can take advantage of said movepool extremely well. Although it can be set-up bait to a few Pokemon and is quite prone to being worn down, the utility it brings is considerable.
Onix - I can see people disagreeing on this one especially, but I feel as if Onix is around on par with Dwebble as a Suicide Lead; although it misses out on Spikes and Knock Off, access to Taunt, Dragon Tail, Explosion and STAB Earthquake coupled with higher base Speed arguably allow it to hold its own in that role. I know I've personally experienced more success with Onix because there are less Pokemon that are able to prevent it from performing its job. Of course, although I'm not a huge fan of Dwebble's Shell Smash set, it's a still a much better sweeper than Onix.
Zigzagoon - Here we have one of the best win conditions available. Although support is certainly required to break Sturdy/phazing Rock-types/fast Ghost-types, there are little to no Pokemon that are able to sweep with such ease once the few checks and counters the opponent might have are removed. If your team has Zigzagoon, your opponent has to play much, much more carefully due to the incredible sweeping potential Zigzagoon carries. However, it's not quite top-tier because it still almost always only gets one chance to sweep; if it can't pull the sweep off the first time around, it generally turns into a dead weight.
B
Gastly - Being incredibly frail, not quite reaching 19 Speed, and suffering competition from Misdreavus as a Ghost-type don't help its cause, but Gastly remains a really nice offensive Pokemon simply because almost nothing popular right now can safely switch into it. STAB Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball coupled with the coverage options it needs let Gastly hit the metagame for massive damage, and it can deal with its would-be counters through moves like Substitute and Destiny Bond. I don't think it should be higher than this because its defenses are still awful and it doesn't have a very notable ability like Abra or Bunnelby, but it can be a huge asset to offensive teams that need its power.
Houndour - Being able to check Misdreavus is a huge boon, as is its powerful Sucker Punch, but I don't want to put Houndour any higher than this due to its overall frailty, allowing it to be checked by offensive teams fairly easily. Granted, it has ways to get around these checks, and its ability to 2HKO standard Spritzee after Stealth Rock with 36 SpA EVs and a neutral nature is always welcome, but when I used Houndour in the past, I often just found its low defenses and weakness to Stealth Rock too debilitating against teams with a solid switch-in to it.
Larvesta - I really do find Larvesta a bit underwhelming at times; Stealth Rock is more popular than ever, and Larvesta doesn't even carry an immunity to Spikes to compensate. With that being said, Archen and Drilbur are both wonderful options to remove hazards, and if this support is granted, Larvesta can make a for a solid check to a variety of threatening Pokemon such as Pawniard and Mienfoo, while firing off STAB U-Turns to maintain momentum and severely injure switch-ins. It requires quite a bit of support to function to its fullest extent, but if this support is granted, Larvesta can still be a valuable asset.
Lickitung - I've been using Lickitung extensively recently and this is where I think it belongs. Although it is indeed somewhat under par offensively and weak to a very common offensive type while having only one immunity, sheer bulk and an exceptional supportive movepool make it an absolutely amazing addition to a number of defensive teams that don't mind a drop in momentum. Lickitung is comparable to Spritzee in its role; although Spritzee has an arguably better defensive typing and Moonblast to fit onto offensive and balanced teams more readily, Lickitung has noticeably better mixed bulk and access to useful moves in Knock Off and Dragon Tail.
Munchlax - I haven't seen Munchlax much, which is probably warranted due to the ubiquity of Fighting-types. However, Munchlax should most certainly not be discounted as a threat; even though it lacks a lot of resistances and has to either rely on a Knock Off-weak method to recover its health or gamble with Sleep Talk, its statistical bulk is still very good, to say the least, and it still has as much base Attack as Mienfoo and Pawniard, with powerful STAB moves for good neutral damage.
Omanyte - Omanyte is an outstanding win condition. It is able to set up on a variety of popular Pokemon, and can sweep quite a few teams after just one turn of set-up. It can definitely be revenge-killed, and bulkier Pokemon can still live through a +2 Surf to hit its -1 defenses hard, but with just a bit of support, Omanyte is able to pull its weight and more on teams looking for a strong late-game sweeper.
Slowpoke - I've used Slowpoke a lot and I think it's still a viable choice. A weakness to Knock Off on a defensive Pokemon is always bothersome, but Slowpoke's advantages still allow it to be quite useful on a lot of defensive teams. Regenerator and a few useful resistances make Slowpoke a good defensive pivot, while stellar physical bulk and a decent supportive movepool means Slowpoke can do stuff while it's on the field.
Snubbull - Another Pokemon I've been using extensively as a teammate for Lickitung especially, Snubbull can fit on all kinds of teams that need a good switch-in to Fighting-types. It's quite powerful and has some good coverage options, making it difficult to switch into for offensive Pokemon, and can support the team with Heal Bell or Thunder Wave. It's really a shame that Snubbull doesn't get reliable recovery outside of RestTalk, although such a set isn't actually too bad from my experience.
Vulpix - Even though it's frail and weak to Stealth Rock, Vulpix brings to the table tons of damage; Choice Specs Overheat is able to cleanly OHKO 76 HP / 156 SDef Eviolite Timburr. Drought is also cool for supporting specific Pokemon, although I feel as if Vulpix's damage output is a slightly more notable trait.
B-
Doduo -
Koffing
Snover
Torchic
Last edited:
Reasonings first then i'll rank em
Abra- Hardhitting and reaching 19 Spe. Has a bit of mindgame on set guessing (sash or all out lo or sub lo) extremely frail tho but shines in revenging non speed ties and no damage mitigations is excellent
Bunnelby- one of the strongest physical mons with a somewhat good moveset, wishes for better dark stab to handle missy but thief does just fine, held back by 16 Spe
Gastly- Interesting stabs in Ghost/Poison with a multitude of support options, (i personally like scarf with hex/veno + trick, does loads of damage) 18 spe is 1 point shit of missy and abra who consistantly come in on the revenge and overall fraility is also bad
Koffing- strong physical wall with wow, no good reliable recovery so has to rely on pain split, hampered by mold breaker + eq users (drilbur/cranidos). gets toxic spikes from gen 6 but then has to compete with other moveslots
Larvesta-amazing scarfer and evio set has good recovery (morning sun) and is a bane for spritzee, x4 sr weakness isnt lovely at all, plus most of it's good attacks are recoil moves.
Slowpoke- regen + phys def makes it one of the bulkiest phys walls, great recovery in slack off, can run phys/special (usually special for burn chance altho phys is higher 65 atk to 40 spa) altho is weak to dark and doesnt like losing it's eviolite
Torchic- disappoints stats but excellent stat passer, has to make the most of it's few turns of set up if it wants to go anywhere. lack of attacking moves on sets make it taunt/encore bait.
Zigzagoon- one dimensional belly drummer with extremespeed. excellent but it HAS to set up and unfortunately if it picks the wrong mon, it's either encored into boosting, burned, or taking over 50% and losing it's berry juice and will be easier to revenge. it's also worth nothing that knocking off the berry juice weakens him as well
Doduo- a pretty sad team of lames in lcpl the successor to murkrow, altho it's not as fast and no prankster, it has the same atk stat and 18 speed so it's nto all bad.
Houndour- a frail ghost trapper with new found access in destiny bond, eviolite sacs a bit of power for some bulk which is nice. a good note is that it hits 17 speed, a nice benchmark for dbonders
Lickitung- one of the bulky normal types with wish access, rest + sleep talk deserves a mention, and has knock off access
Munchlax- the other bulky normal type (albeit special) recycle + berry juice makes him nigh impossible to defeat, but knock off and fighting type 2hkos reverse that
Snover- semi powerful scarfer with access to 100% blizzards, could choose to run HP Fight this gen to get a free pawn lure + kill
Snubbull- Rattled Scarf loves Knock Off and keeps the speed boost with newly alloted move freedom, and eviolite + intimidate shuts down fighters (not timburr and and pawn gets +1 atk on the switchin)
Vulpix- only sun setter in lc gets a massive boost to it's own fire attacks and is not too shabby of an attack itself. has a bit of trouble dealing with bulky waters since energy ball is it's only grass move and hidden power is sorta weak
Diglett- a bird's best friend since it's best job is killing off chinchou, extremely frail but hits the coveted 20 spe and could also run memento to aid a sweeper
Omanyte- based helix with shell smash is quite destructive, also has access to all three hazards (like pineco), havent used it a lot
Onix- 17 Spe + Taunt + SR is a good combo, GReat SR lead for sun teams. Another mon i dont use a whole lot, not much to really say here
Wynaut- One of the best defensive checkers in the game with berry juice and countercoat it's going place. unforetunatly it's slow and knock off + status moves really hamper it. also physical ghosts and special dark types troll countercoaters.
A lot of mons here i've never used but imo this is what it's alookin like
have at me knaves
edit: hide tags to make post a bit more manageable to read
A lot of mons here i've never used but imo this is what it's alookin like
B+
Abra
Larvesta
Slowpoke
Diglett
Bunnelby
Lickitung
B
Snubbull
Gastly
Onix
Omanyte
Vulpix
Munchlax
Doduo
Houndour
B-
Snover
Wynaut
Koffing
Zigzagoon
Torchic
Abra
Larvesta
Slowpoke
Diglett
Bunnelby
Lickitung
B
Snubbull
Gastly
Onix
Omanyte
Vulpix
Munchlax
Doduo
Houndour
B-
Snover
Wynaut
Koffing
Zigzagoon
Torchic
have at me knaves
edit: hide tags to make post a bit more manageable to read
Gothita from D to B-
Gothita has solid bulk 45/50/65 and serves as a fantastic check to Poison types (mostly) and Fighting types (not quite as well because Knock Off) in the tier. It can run a variety of sets from Choice Scarf, to trap, outspeed and KO Poisons, to bulky Eviolite to switch into a solid hit, trap and cripple an opposing threat. Also, the Evio set can live Pawn's Knock Off at full health and hit back with HP Fight. Gothita is my main source of Poison pokemon destruction to clear the way for a Riolu or a Scarfed Mienfoo to HJK to victory. Some Calcs:
Defensive:
236+ Atk Pawniard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Gothita: 18-24 (85.7 - 114.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
196+ Atk Timburr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Gothita: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236+ Atk Mienfoo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Gothita: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Offensive:
236 SpA Gothita Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 196 SpD Pawniard: 20-28 (95.2 - 133.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
236 SpA Gothita Psychic vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Timburr: 14-20 (58.3 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hits it, lives the Knock Off, then outspeeds)
236 SpA Gothita Psychic vs. 0 HP / 196 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 14-20 (66.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 SpA Gothita Psychic vs. 212 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Croagunk: 36-48 (150 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The only challenge with Gothita's trapping abilities is that it can't OHKO Trubbish so you'll have to rack up some damage prior to switching in Gothita.
Gothita has solid bulk 45/50/65 and serves as a fantastic check to Poison types (mostly) and Fighting types (not quite as well because Knock Off) in the tier. It can run a variety of sets from Choice Scarf, to trap, outspeed and KO Poisons, to bulky Eviolite to switch into a solid hit, trap and cripple an opposing threat. Also, the Evio set can live Pawn's Knock Off at full health and hit back with HP Fight. Gothita is my main source of Poison pokemon destruction to clear the way for a Riolu or a Scarfed Mienfoo to HJK to victory. Some Calcs:
Defensive:
236+ Atk Pawniard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Gothita: 18-24 (85.7 - 114.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
196+ Atk Timburr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Gothita: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236+ Atk Mienfoo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Gothita: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Offensive:
236 SpA Gothita Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 196 SpD Pawniard: 20-28 (95.2 - 133.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
236 SpA Gothita Psychic vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Timburr: 14-20 (58.3 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hits it, lives the Knock Off, then outspeeds)
236 SpA Gothita Psychic vs. 0 HP / 196 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 14-20 (66.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 SpA Gothita Psychic vs. 212 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Croagunk: 36-48 (150 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The only challenge with Gothita's trapping abilities is that it can't OHKO Trubbish so you'll have to rack up some damage prior to switching in Gothita.
I've been using a scarf trapper Gothita on a trap team and it's been sucessful, i am very miffed with Goth's power but sometimes it doesnt even matter since timburr is behind it knocking off items for her to get the KOs.
Evio is looking sick tho, i MIGHT use it but i need more calcs and more planning before i try it out.
Evio is looking sick tho, i MIGHT use it but i need more calcs and more planning before i try it out.
if this is what we're doing then why not - B lists go!
can we also discuss: vullaby moving down to B+ and Abra moving up to A- some more?
Abra - up to A- tbh, read Hawkstar's post it convinced me
Larvesta - great mon, great fighting type counter, who cares if it's SR weak it's still one of the best pivots around
Diglett - as a trapper it does work, it's predictable but that doesn't stop it doing its job usually. and when it doesn't work, it still has a quick memento to use
Ferroseed - amazing mon tbh, walls so much stuff gets hazards. it's good basically.
Gastly - Gastly is fucking strong and sets itself apart from missy with STAB sludge bomb which makes it a great wallbreaker
Doduo - Doduo is another great wallbreaker with Knock Off + Brave Bird threatening loads of shit including taking archen out with knock off - great bird support mon
Vulpix - Overheat/Fire Blast in the sun with Life Orb hurts everything, enough said. I wouldn't bother running a sun team tbh, but vulpix on its own is great. We have so much room for cool wallbreakers now Murkrow doesn't outclass everything
Houndour - not much can switch into Life Orb Houndour, and evio houndour can wreck misdreavus with pursuit. a great wallbreaker that can shine more now krow is gone. it's frail but kinda makes up for it with sucker punch.
Vullaby - it's in A atm but idk why it isn't here
Larvesta - great mon, great fighting type counter, who cares if it's SR weak it's still one of the best pivots around
Diglett - as a trapper it does work, it's predictable but that doesn't stop it doing its job usually. and when it doesn't work, it still has a quick memento to use
Ferroseed - amazing mon tbh, walls so much stuff gets hazards. it's good basically.
Gastly - Gastly is fucking strong and sets itself apart from missy with STAB sludge bomb which makes it a great wallbreaker
Doduo - Doduo is another great wallbreaker with Knock Off + Brave Bird threatening loads of shit including taking archen out with knock off - great bird support mon
Vulpix - Overheat/Fire Blast in the sun with Life Orb hurts everything, enough said. I wouldn't bother running a sun team tbh, but vulpix on its own is great. We have so much room for cool wallbreakers now Murkrow doesn't outclass everything
Houndour - not much can switch into Life Orb Houndour, and evio houndour can wreck misdreavus with pursuit. a great wallbreaker that can shine more now krow is gone. it's frail but kinda makes up for it with sucker punch.
Vullaby - it's in A atm but idk why it isn't here
Bunnelby - probably controversial not putting it in A+ but Bunny is so easily walled and extremely frail. Any priority kills it and it's just set up bait for any rock/steel/ghost pokemon. scarf can barely clean due to the amount of normal resists.
Lickitung - one of the best support Pokemon right now, but it just isn't easy to fit on teams. the amount of easy switch ins it gives stops it from being B+ but it's still bulky as fuck
Onix - Taunt+StealthRock lead set is a great dedicated lead with sturdyjuice. best dwebble counter as well, and can check flyers throughout the match. Solid B neutral mon but it just doesn't have the power for B+.
Omanyte - helix god is a great sweeper, I've used it so much and with the right support, it can easily sweep. it fits the B rank definition perfectly so B neutral is the place for it.
Munchlax - munchlax fits B neutral perfectly imo. walls so much shit, but gets taken advantage of my so much shit so it needs a defensive core support.
Zigzagoon - basically see what i said about omanyte.
Lickitung - one of the best support Pokemon right now, but it just isn't easy to fit on teams. the amount of easy switch ins it gives stops it from being B+ but it's still bulky as fuck
Onix - Taunt+StealthRock lead set is a great dedicated lead with sturdyjuice. best dwebble counter as well, and can check flyers throughout the match. Solid B neutral mon but it just doesn't have the power for B+.
Omanyte - helix god is a great sweeper, I've used it so much and with the right support, it can easily sweep. it fits the B rank definition perfectly so B neutral is the place for it.
Munchlax - munchlax fits B neutral perfectly imo. walls so much shit, but gets taken advantage of my so much shit so it needs a defensive core support.
Zigzagoon - basically see what i said about omanyte.
Slowpoke -it's bulky as fuck and regen is cool but it just doesn't have a great typing in the meta. if we look at A rank, it beats tirtouga, drilbur, croagunk and ponyta, that's it. Sunny Day ponyta actually beats it and fighters just hit it with knock off. tirtouga can beat it with knock off too, and drilbur can 2hko with knock off and stealth rock support
Snubbull - great mon if it got recovery. it's typing lets it stand out in the meta though being one of the bset timburr/carvanha/etc... switch ins but it will get worn down
Snover - scarf isn't that great tbh, but eviolite+blizzard can deal some good damage. it's typing is just too easily walled by fires/steels etc... and it need hidden power to hit these mons
Wynaut - wynaut works but it actually fails to trap a lot of stuff these days. dark types are strong atm, and fighting types can knock off meaning it has to be healthy
Koffing - don't really know tbh - it's good i guess but it's recovery lets it down. still a great fairy/fighting counter though and beats almost all physical attackers. i guess it's like snubbull in that it lacks recovery
Torchic - one trick pony which can work but mostly doesn't.
Snubbull - great mon if it got recovery. it's typing lets it stand out in the meta though being one of the bset timburr/carvanha/etc... switch ins but it will get worn down
Snover - scarf isn't that great tbh, but eviolite+blizzard can deal some good damage. it's typing is just too easily walled by fires/steels etc... and it need hidden power to hit these mons
Wynaut - wynaut works but it actually fails to trap a lot of stuff these days. dark types are strong atm, and fighting types can knock off meaning it has to be healthy
Koffing - don't really know tbh - it's good i guess but it's recovery lets it down. still a great fairy/fighting counter though and beats almost all physical attackers. i guess it's like snubbull in that it lacks recovery
Torchic - one trick pony which can work but mostly doesn't.
can we also discuss: vullaby moving down to B+ and Abra moving up to A- some more?
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I just can't quite see Abra as an A- Pokemon. It is a great Pokemon, but not outstanding, tbh. Sashbra can usually grab one kill, sometimes two and is a great "oh, shit" button when things go arse up, but it has some REALLY sucky defenses and anything that can take a Psychic can usually end it too quickly, especially considering how common priority is. It isn't a bad Pokemon by any means, but it requires some support to shine, and is certainly worthy of a B+ rank.
honestly though does it need support? it can just sit there on your team till you need it to check something. it rarely doesn't get a kill in a battle and it's not just a safety net.
as for LO, if it gets a free switch in, it basically will kill something.
it's just strong and fast and gets kills, i don't see how it needs support
You have a fair point, I guess I'd been using it wrong. I'm still on the fence about A-/B+ I think.
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