Resource LC Viability Rankings

[Corporal Levi]

Starly is really bad, but that's why it's being nominated for D rank, which is mostly reserved for really bad Pokemon that aren't wholly outclassed by anything specific (Psyduck, Goomy, Trapinch, etc). Starly is on a whole different level from Fletchling in terms of power, so you can't really say Fletchling outclasses Starly at all, even though I think we can all reasonably agree that Fletchling is the drastically better Pokemon in general. It's not completely outclassed by Taillow because it can run a much, much more powerful Choice Scarf set, taking advantage of Reckless Brave Bird and Double Edge; as a non-Choiced Pokemon, Taillow is significantly better because it can take advantage of Guts, of course. It's not wholly outclassed by Doduo because even though Doduo is faster, around same powerful, and has Knock Off, Starly has one advantage in U-Turn, allowing it to scout, which is actually pretty nice for bird offense when paired with Diglett. Starly's advantages are small, and it's rarely worth a spot on a team, but because it has those unique advantages that MIGHT be exactly what some really really weird team needs, it warrants a placement in D.
Of course, if we go by that, there are a few D rank mons that I'd like to move up, but to be frank, I don't really for such low-ranked mons enough to bring them up :D

One Pokemon I'd like to see moving up is Gastly; B+ seems like a nice place for it. I started using it because Missy is a goner, and I'm actually fairly impressed by its performance. The set I've been using is the Life Orb set, which is a phenomenal stallbreaker; Munchlax and Specially Defensive Lickitung are the only Pokemon able to avoid the 2HKO, and if they get poisoned by Sludge Bomb, which has a 51% chance of happening over two Sludge Bombs, they won't be around for long, either. Without Misdreavus, 18 Speed is now an even better Speed tier, only outsped by Abra, Diglett, and a bunch of normally irrelevant things, meaning LO Gastly can pull its weight against offensive teams as well, coming in on one of the many Pokemon it outspeeds and, if the Pokemon is weakened, often guaranteeing a KO due to the sheer power of its STABs preventing safe switch-ins.
196 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 132 HP / 28 SpD Zigzagoon: 21-27 (95.4 - 122.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
196 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 13-17 (61.9 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 236 HP / 76+ SpD Eviolite Porygon: 9-13 (34.6 - 50%) -- 87.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I can't speak for the Choice sets because I haven't been using them myself, but I'm really liking the raw power LO Gastly brings to the table. I personally prefer it over LO Abra despite Abra's greater Speed and lack of recoil, because Gastly's STABs are just so much better. Gastly won't be taking a hit any time soon, but neither will the opponent, which is nice because Gastly is really fast.

Speaking of Abra, I'd like to see it moved up to A. It can't beat both Stall and Offense, but depending on its set, it's an enormous headache to at least one of them, meaning it's ridiculously easy to fit onto almost any offensive or balanced team if the team is in need of a safety net or a wall-breaker. We all know about Abra's capabilities as a safety net; stick it onto your team and be completely covered against one set-up sweeper, granting offensive teams, which would often otherwise be ended by a single mistake, much more breathing room, which is, of course, incredibly useful. I've personally been having much more trouble dealing with Life Orb Abra. Even though it can't come in on anything, its great Speed tier means that it can still act as some sort of revenge-killer (just not for set-up sweepers, unless it's Bulk Up Timburr). Once it's in, things tend to crumble; once again, we are left with Specially Defensive Lickitung and Munchlax as the sole Pokemon that can wall it. Just kidding; it gets Psyshock! Thus, Berry Juice Munchlax is left as the only Pokemon that can avoid the 2HKO. Basically, once Life Orb Abra comes in safely, something dies.

Maybe it's just my playstyle or my teams, but I find fast glass cannons to be very difficult to deal with, and LO Gastly and LO Abra are probably the two most effective threats in that category. Their ability to almost entirely dismantle stall while getting kills pretty much every time they enter play against offensive teams renders them incredibly dangerous Pokemon, and arguably worth moving up.

 

[Eren Yeagar]

Wooper C- Rank --> C rank WHY: I would like wooper to move up to C rank because even though it is overshadowed by better stockpilers like shellos and flat out tanks like spritzee and lickitung, but this little tadpole has many niches that its competitors don't have.

First of all, as i stated in my "Hidden Gems in LC" post about wooper, the wooper family has been gifted the incredible ability unaware, which lets the opponent's stat boosts don't affect wooper and quagsire. Quagsire loves this ability in OU, since the amount of pokemon that set up are mostly physical attackers and quagsire and wooper love taking those physical attacks since their biggest stat is defense(tied with attack too). Sadly, LC is way different thann OU. OU is a tier that both stall and hyper offensive are viable. In LC, you have to play very aggressively to win since every poke is level 5. That doesn't mean stall is worthless in LC, it's just harder to do. Luckily, we still have great stallers such as spritzee and lickitung. Wooper can be a great staller too. Make sure you play well with its stockpile and recover set so wooper can lead you to victory!

Wooper also has a great typing to accompany with its stalling purposes. Water/Ground is great typing that only ahs one weakness - Grass. Make sure all grass types are gone because if someone uses a grass type move on wooper, it's dead. To cover wooper's major weakness, here are some good teammates:

GreatTeammates

Gastly
Foongus
Fletchling
Doduo
Houndour
Tailow
Pretty much anything that resists and does super effective damage to grass.

Wooper also has some pretty nice STAB moves along with it. Earthquake is a powerful move that hits poison and steel types that are immune to its main status move toxic HARD. Scald is also nice to burn opponents and can help you stall away with stockpile and recover.

Overall, wooper is a decent mon in LC that can make your opponent pull out their hair while fighting it(if you play it correctly). This unaware tadpole deserves at least a C rank.

Very impressive calculations for wooper :)

Calcs

These calcs are showing how much damage wooper will take at +1 defense and special defense.
36 Atk Wooper Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Pawniard: 18-24 (85.7 - 114.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
236 Atk Pawniard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. +1 236 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
236 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. +1 236 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 6-7 (24 - 28%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO
236 Atk Mienfoo High Jump Kick vs. +1 236 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 7-10 (28 - 40%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO
36 Atk Wooper Earthquake vs. 116 HP / 100 Def Trubbish: 18-24 (78.2 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +1 236 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
236 SpA Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs. +1 236 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Wooper: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO

Pretty bulky after +1 defense + special defense :)

 

[kingmidas]

Wooper C- Rank --> C rank WHY: I would like wooper to move up to C rank because even though it is overshadowed by better stockpilers like shellos and flat out tanks like spritzee and lickitung, but this little tadpole has many niches that its competitors don't have.

First of all, as i stated in my "Hidden Gems in LC" post about wooper, the wooper family has been gifted the incredible ability unaware, which lets the opponent's stat boosts don't affect wooper and quagsire. Quagsire loves this ability in OU, since the amount of pokemon that set up are mostly physical attackers and quagsire and wooper love taking those physical attacks since their biggest stat is defense(tied with attack too). Sadly, LC is way different thann OU. OU is a tier that both stall and hyper offensive are viable. In LC, you have to play very aggressively to win since every poke is level 5. That doesn't mean stall is worthless in LC, it's just harder to do. Luckily, we still have great stallers such as spritzee and lickitung. Wooper can be a great staller too. Make sure you play well with its stockpile and recover set so wooper can lead you to victory!

Wooper also has a great typing to accompany with its stalling purposes. Water/Ground is great typing that only ahs one weakness - Grass. Make sure all grass types are gone because if someone uses a grass type move on wooper, it's dead. To cover wooper's major weakness, here are some good teammates:

GreatTeammates

Gastly
Foongus
Fletchling
Doduo
Houndour
Tailow
Pretty much anything that resists and does super effective damage to grass.

Wooper also has some pretty nice STAB moves along with it. Earthquake is a powerful move that hits poison and steel types that are immune to its main status move toxic HARD. Scald is also nice to burn opponents and can help you stall away with stockpile and recover.

Overall, wooper is a decent mon in LC that can make your opponent pull out their hair while fighting it(if you play it correctly). This unaware tadpole deserves at least a C rank.

Very impressive calculations for wooper :)

Calcs

These calcs are showing how much damage wooper will take at +1 defense and special defense.
36 Atk Wooper Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Pawniard: 18-24 (85.7 - 114.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
236 Atk Pawniard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. +1 236 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
236 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. +1 236 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 6-7 (24 - 28%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO
236 Atk Mienfoo High Jump Kick vs. +1 236 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 7-10 (28 - 40%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO
36 Atk Wooper Earthquake vs. 116 HP / 100 Def Trubbish: 18-24 (78.2 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +1 236 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Wooper: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
236 SpA Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs. +1 236 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Wooper: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO

Pretty bulky after +1 defense + special defense :)

2 things, those are all vs mons that you have good match ups vs, try dealing with a grass type like foongus which isn't easy to get rid of, or cottonee who can just flat out end the sweep. Also a crit completely ruins the stall and you aren't dealing much damage to bulky mons. And LC is bulky offense by nature, always has been since gen 5, idk what you're talking about its whoever hits the hardest.

 

[Camden]

I think for Wooper you should look at some non-eviolite calcs, because if it gets hit by Knock off or Trick, it's neutered pretty hard.

 

[Aerow]

Okay so, I think it's about time our lord Slugma gets some love:

Slugma for D-rank

40 HP / 40 Atk / 40 Def / 70 SpA / 40 SpD / 20 Spe

When you look at Slugma's stats, they aren't too great. While 40 / 40 / 40 defenses isn't terrible, it's far from great. However, what makes Slugma a Pokemon suited for D-rank (and not E or F-rank), is that is has a pretty cool movepool, having access to moves such as Memento, Recover and Dual Screens. Fire Blast hits hard thanks to 70 Special Attack, and Slugma has two decent coverage moves in Ancient Power and Earth Power. But more importantly, Slugma is a great user of Memento. In contrast to Cottonee (and previously Misdreavus), Slugma can use Memento without being worried about Pawniard, as Fire Blast allows it to OHKO Eviolite Pawniard after Stealth Rock, and very few people will ever switch Pawniard in against Slugma. Slugma also has access to a great and reliable recovery move in Recover, which allows it to be alive for multiple turns. Slugma also has access to Light Screen and Reflect, making it a decent slow Dual Screener. However, Slugma is terribly slow, having 9 Speed with 36 Speed EVs, and can easily get OHKOed by a super effective move.

This is probably the most viable Slugma set:

Slugma @ Eviolite / Light Clay
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpA / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
- Fire Blast / Light Screen / Reflect
- Earth Power / Light Screen / Reflect
- Recover / Light Screen / Reflect
- Memento

196 Defense and 116 Special Defense EVs are used to hit Eviolite numbers, 14 and 12 respectively with a Bold nature. 116 HP EVs are used to further bolster mixed bulk, with the remaining EVs used in Special Attack and Speed to improve both stats by 1 point. When it comes to Ability, Slugma has 3 options. However, Flame Body is undoubtedly the best one, since it has a 30% chance of burning a opponent making contact. Fire Blast is used to OHKO Eviolite Pawniard after Stealth Rock, as well as being a powerful Fire-type STAB move in general. Slugma also OHKOes and outspeeds Foongus with Eviolite knocked off. Earth Power is used for coverage. Recover is a great recovery move, and Memento is a really cool move, since Slugma can use it without being worried about Pawniard. Reflect and Light Screen can also be used, since Slugma is a decent slow Dual Screener.

Slugma isn't a great Pokemon, but it is indeed a fun Pokemon, that in my opinion deserves D-rank.

 

[Anthiese]

This post is to show off the fantastica handling of Aerow's Slugma set and my Snivy set.

I did lose but i caused a lot of trouble.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-150619732

 

[Dr. Sableye]

I'd like to nominate Trubbish from B+ to A rank. Trubbish is a very antimeta pokemon. With the ability sticky hold, the berry juice being allowed this generatiion, and it's poison typing, it easily walls every fighting type pokemon in the tier. It also can ohko pawniard with drain punch and not lose it's item. Fighting types and Pawniard are both very influential aspects of LC, and one of them or both are seen on every good team usually. While there are a few exceptions, Trubbish will always have a role on the team in a match thanks to his ability to counter fighting types and check pawniard. If you dont have problems with pawniard, you can even run Rock Blast to ohko larvesta, (maybe) ohko fletchling, and have a chance of killing ponyta. Aside from its tanking abilities, trubbish also has spikes and toxic spikes. With reliable recovery, Trubbish can reliably get spikes up every match thanks to it being able to handle at least one pokemon on the other team well usually. Toxic spikes are also helpful for taking down pesky walls, and trubbish easily sets those up too. A sample set would look like this:

Trubbish (M) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sticky Hold
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 36 Atk / 180 Def / 20 SpD / 76 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic Spikes/spikes
- Recycle
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch/Rock Blast

In conclusion, Trubbish is a very reliable and anti-meta pokemon that can fit on many teams. It currently has the ability to counter/check every S rank pokemon in the viability rankings, and it does it's job against much of the A rank too. With reliable recovery, the ability to bypass knock off, spikes, toxic spikes, and the ability to counter every fighting type and pawniard in the tier, Trubbish deserves A rank and a bit more appreciation.

Calcs:
36 Atk Trubbish Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Pawniard: 20-28 (95.2 - 133.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
236 Atk Mienfoo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 116 HP / 100+ Def Trubbish: 9-11 (39.1 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
36 Atk Trubbish Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. 156 HP / 92 Def Fletchling: 24-32 (104.3 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
196+ Atk Timburr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 196 HP / 180+ Def Trubbish: 8-10 (33.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
236+ Atk Scraggy Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 196 HP / 180+ Def Trubbish: 12-15 (50 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(After Drain punch it is a 3hko)
36 Atk Trubbish Gunk Shot vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 14-18 (51.8 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
36 Atk Trubbish Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Ponyta: 16-24 (76.1 - 114.2%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO(After flare blitz recoil a good chance of ko'ing, but you gotta get at least 4 hits)​

 

[Aaron's Aron]

I'd like to nominate Trubbish from B+ to A rank. Trubbish is a very antimeta pokemon. With the ability sticky hold, the berry juice being allowed this generatiion, and it's poison typing, it easily walls every fighting type pokemon in the tier. It also can ohko pawniard with drain punch and not lose it's item. Fighting types and Pawniard are both very influential aspects of LC, and one of them or both are seen on every good team usually. While there are a few exceptions, Trubbish will always have a role on the team in a match thanks to his ability to counter fighting types and check pawniard. If you dont have problems with pawniard, you can even run Rock Blast to ohko larvesta, (maybe) ohko fletchling, and have a chance of killing ponyta. Aside from its tanking abilities, trubbish also has spikes and toxic spikes. With reliable recovery, Trubbish can reliably get spikes up every match thanks to it being able to handle at least one pokemon on the other team well usually. Toxic spikes are also helpful for taking down pesky walls, and trubbish easily sets those up too. A sample set would look like this:

Trubbish (M) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sticky Hold
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 36 Atk / 180 Def / 20 SpD / 76 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic Spikes/spikes
- Recycle
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch/Rock Blast

In conclusion, Trubbish is a very reliable and anti-meta pokemon that can fit on many teams. It currently has the ability to counter/check every S rank pokemon in the viability rankings, and it does it's job against much of the A rank too. With reliable recovery, the ability to bypass knock off, spikes, toxic spikes, and the ability to counter every fighting type and pawniard in the tier, Trubbish deserves A rank and a bit more appreciation.

Calcs:
36 Atk Trubbish Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Pawniard: 20-28 (95.2 - 133.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
236 Atk Mienfoo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 116 HP / 100+ Def Trubbish: 9-11 (39.1 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
36 Atk Trubbish Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. 156 HP / 92 Def Fletchling: 24-32 (104.3 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
196+ Atk Timburr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 196 HP / 180+ Def Trubbish: 8-10 (33.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
236+ Atk Scraggy Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 196 HP / 180+ Def Trubbish: 12-15 (50 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(After Drain punch it is a 3hko)
36 Atk Trubbish Gunk Shot vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 14-18 (51.8 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
36 Atk Trubbish Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Ponyta: 16-24 (76.1 - 114.2%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO(After flare blitz recoil a good chance of ko'ing, but you gotta get at least 4 hits)​

Trubbish is not as good as it seems on paper. It is not a bad Pokemon, but not fantastic (A Rank worthy) either. It is semi-bulky, but it is often forced to spam Recycle just to stay alive. It can't take multiple hits from most Pokemon, and this prevents it from actually doing anything to the opponent because it is forced to heal itself. For example, Pawniard 2HKOs Trubbish without an Eviolite. It can't really check Fletchling as well as you think because it can just use Swords Dance to bypass Berry Juice entirely, while Gunk Shot only 2HKOs back. This means that Trubbish can't really switch in on Fletchling, as it is forced to spam Recycle to stay alive, and the opponent can just take advantage of this and Swords Dance. Ponyta is not checked, as it can just Will-O-Wisp Trubbish a burn and then Morning Sun heal and KO with Flare Blitz. It is a good Pokemon to switch in after one of your Pokemon is KOd, but it has difficulty switching in to a lot of Pokemon and doing anything, with a particular knack of being set up bait for Ghost-types.

236 Atk Pawniard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 116 HP / 180 Def Trubbish: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 180 Def Trubbish: 24-28 (104.3 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
36 Atk Trubbish Gunk Shot vs. 156 HP / 92 Def Fletchling: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It does check Mienfoo though which is good, but the other S Ranks are not totally checked though. However, it can still check some stuff and is great on stall teams with the ability to absorb Knock Off and set Spikes. This allows it do be great on some teams, but it is not good enough overall or consistently to be worthy of A Rank. B+ suits it well, as the description of it reads: "Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential." Trubbish has it's flaws that prevent it from being gamazing, but it has good qualities that make it good on some teams. Perfect B+ Rank material.

 

[gali]

Why use Trubbish when you can use Shellos?

But seriously, Shellos is really good. I know I hype it a lot, but it's definitely better than C+. Sticky Hold is just such a good ability, especially when combined with Eviolite, reliable recovery, and a good defensive typing. It allows Shellos to wall a crazy number of mons, including all of S and over half of A. It also gets all the tools it needs to abuse its ability. Scald is an incredibly spammable move, capable of further crippling the many physical attackers that Shellos beats. Earth Power makes opposing Electric-types and Croagunk think twice before switching in, and hits Pawniard especially hard. Ice Beam smacks Grass-types on the switchin. And Clear Smog ensures that Shellos can't be set up on. And all this isn't even mentioning Stockpile, which causes teams lacking super-effective STAB moves or Toxic a slow, painful death. Basically, Shellos is a super cool mon that's definitely better than things like Honedge and Koffing and deserves B Rank.

 

[Anthiese]

Why use Trubbish when you can use Shellos?

But seriously, Shellos is really good. I know I hype it a lot, but it's definitely better than C+. Sticky Hold is just such a good ability, especially when combined with Eviolite, reliable recovery, and a good defensive typing. It allows Shellos to wall a crazy number of mons, including all of S and over half of A. It also gets all the tools it needs to abuse its ability. Scald is an incredibly spammable move, capable of further crippling the many physical attackers that Shellos beats. Earth Power makes opposing Electric-types and Croagunk think twice before switching in, and hits Pawniard especially hard. Ice Beam smacks Grass-types on the switchin. And Clear Smog ensures that Shellos can't be set up on. And all this isn't even mentioning Stockpile, which causes teams lacking super-effective STAB moves or Toxic a slow, painful death. Basically, Shellos is a super cool mon that's definitely better than things like Honedge and Koffing and deserves B Rank.

Agreeing with the above, I've found that pairing Shells with Pumpkaboo XL makes an amazing walling duo that stuffs a lot of common threats in LC. Mostly you get the drop against Pawniard / Fletchling who are both lured in to smash Pumpkaboo XL with Acro + Knock Off but Shellos can take both of these moves well and can even burn Fletching for Shellos to wall.

Also it's notable that Shellos has access to Clear Smog to totally ignore Fletchling's attempts to overpower and wallbreak.

EDIT: pls Toa Tahu you said Clear Smog too and i missed that part but oh well i tied it in well imo

 

[chimp]

How, by all things holy in the year of our Lord 2000 + 14, is Elekid in [B-]????

-20 Speed
-Powerful
-Good Coverage (Thunderbolt, Psychic, Cross Chop, Ice Punch)
-Decent ability
-Delicious plug head

Im not saying its the greatest sweeper ever but putting this guy in a tier below stuff like Cranidos, Houndour, and Taillow is just wrong. [A-] if not [B+] seems more reasonable imo.

 

[boo836]

Elekid is like the Electivire of LC. Its coverage doesn't hit common shit all that hard, and it struggles to come in on a good deal of Pokemon. It's basically a glass cannon, except it's ass. :x

 

[spuds4ever]

Shellos is not a bad mon but struggles to get a place for a team slot over mons like trubbish for example who has a lot more utility and a more useful defensive typing while still having roughly the same bulk but having recyclejuice over recover. Water just doesn't have many uses for a defensive mon seeing as fire and water (and ice but that is actually non-existent) are rarely used as offensive STABs and the most common that do (staryu, chinch and ponyta) both carry electric coverage. Personally, I would much rather have trubbish every time for hazards and to cover more offensive threats like mienfoo so I would say that shellos fits the C category perfectly not to mention the water type competition it faces alone from chinchou and staryu.

As for Elekid; it has always seemed decent in theory but can't really come in on anything, (u-turn from fletch is doing 38% minimum to non-evio sets) and it is just lacking in power to really force much out, I can only think of staryu, magnemite (though he could potentially just sturdy juice stall you to death from LO recoil) and fletch that it could actually scare and with its minimum bulk, it's taking any hit pretty badly. Not to mention that it is reliant on having to out-predict your opponent to get kills most of the time and still has a very hard time with common threats cottonee and chinchou. B- is just fine in my book.

As for something I would like to nominate which would probably be brought up anyway is bunnelby. This is so ridiculously strong late game without misdreavus about as almost everything is 2hkoed just by clicking return mindlessly and anything that isn't can be OHKOed by a coverage move. Even once you've switched something in after a kill, it has to be really healthy to survive, even bulkyfoo is taking 65% minimum. I don't know, maybe I haven't used it enough against good players, but it seems so ridiculously easy to use and so efficient at the same time that it should be A-Ranked. Granted, like I just criticised elekid's moving up, it can't switch in and early game it won't force out that much provided it's not an important team member for the opponent, but it really just can do so much damage to everything, making it also and excellent support sweeper too.

 

[chimp]

Elekid is like the Electivire of LC. Its coverage doesn't hit common shit all that hard, and it struggles to come in on a good deal of Pokemon. It's basically a glass cannon, except it's ass. :x

Its coverage hits plenty of Pokemon hard enough:
252 SpA Life Orb Elekid Psychic vs. 124 HP / 160 SpD Eviolite Foongus: 13-18 (52 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Elekid Psychic vs. 156 HP / 196 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 13-18 (56.5 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
14 Atk Life Orb Elekid Ice Punch vs. 36 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Drilbur: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
14 Atk Life Orb Elekid Cross Chop vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 13-16 (50 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Just try to switch into it with anything other than Chinchou or Cottonee.

It struggles to come in on a good deal of Pokemon.

Well, yeah? Thats not the point of Elekid and if you are switching it in you are using it wrong. Carvanha, Fletchling, and Zigzagoon all have a small amount of Pokemon who they can come in on and they are [A+], S, and [B+], respectively.

Its not BASICALLY a glass cannon. It IS a glass cannon. Thats not inherently a derogatory term, either.

 

[Lemonade]

Trubbish is weak to Ground and Drilbur is really good (like best / only spinner) and fairly common. Stuff like SD isn't used that often but it sets up on Trubbish and with 17 Speed it can be hard to revenge without a SE attack. Trubbish is also an easy kill for Diglett (technically Dig can switch in but you might not always want to). B+ is where it belongs imo.

Shellos could be a little higher. One thing I think that makes it maybe deserving of a higher rank is that the opponent always has to be wary of a Scald burn so they can't really switch anything you want in, and Shellos can force stuff like Drilbur and Pawniard out to get that opportunity to spread burns. Unlike Chinchou it's not weak to Ground, and unlike Staryu it can't lose its item.

 

[absdaddy]

How, by all things holy in the year of our Lord 2000 + 14, is Elekid in [B-]????

-20 Speed
-Powerful
-Good Coverage (Thunderbolt, Psychic, Cross Chop, Ice Punch)
-Decent ability
-Delicious plug head

Im not saying its the greatest sweeper ever but putting this guy in a tier below stuff like Cranidos, Houndour, and Taillow is just wrong. [A-] if not [B+] seems more reasonable imo.

It's nowhere near comparable to the FIRE DOGE. Houndour's damage potential by far outdoes Elekid's, and it's much easier to fit on a team. Things like scarf dog are completely legit to fux over gastly and such, one can even keep prio to hit Fletchling - Houndour even without Orb pretty much 2hkos 3/4 of relevant metagame, why is it in the same rank as Snubbul?(i'll never understand this mon hype, it's so bad lol).Fire blast pretty much matches Krow's bbird power, Overheat even outdamages it, their priority power is literally same - it's just weaknesses and 2 points lower speed, but who the fux cares if NOTHING in the meta can switch on your LO/Specs/Charcoal set?

Houndour - B>B+/A-

CHARCOAL EDIT
"i used charco on some laddernubs during suspects and u cannot imagine how damn effective it is to bluff choice item entire game to reveal move switching when opp never suspects it! its so fukn cool and gamewinning lol" <<<< straight from Jac's wall

 

[Anthiese]

It's nowhere near comparable to the FIRE DOGE. Houndour's damage potential by far outdoes Elekid's, and it's much easier to fit on a team. Things like scarf dog are completely legit to fux over gastly and such, one can even keep prio to hit Fletchling - Houndour even without Orb pretty much 2hkos 3/4 of relevant metagame, why is it in the same rank as Snubbul?(i'll never understand this mon hype, it's so bad lol).Fire blast pretty much matches Krow's bbird power, Overheat even outdamages it, their priority power is literally same - it's just weaknesses and 2 points lower speed, but who the fux cares if NOTHING in the meta can switch on your LO/Specs/Charcoal set?

Houndour - B>B+/A-
Fire blast pretty much matches Krow's bbird power

>Charcoal

You've been playing Ubers too much

But i agree that Dour a monster

 

[Yagura]

After Misdreavus' ban the best Ghost in the meta (arguably) at the moment is Gastly, it's not as good as Missy: it's slower by one point and doesn't have access to Nasty Plot, doesn't have high defenses like Misdreavus so it can't play a support role and is easier to revenge, but it's still a nice replacement. With a higher SAtk and a Life Orb it hits really hard and with the Poison secondary typing is gets STAB Sludge Bomb that can deal with fairies, it has access to Dazzling Gleam, Sucker Punch, Energy Ball, Destiny Bond, Hypnosis and other stuff. Gastly doesn't only have the LO set as it can run a Choice Scarf set that might be inpredictable and a Focus Sash set too, it can also use a Sub Disable set but it's kind of gimmicky. Long story short, Gastly to A-.

 

[doomsday doink]

it can also use a Sub Disable set but it's kind of gimmicky.

Pls. SubDisable wins games and isn't a gimmick at all. It lets Gastly shut down Fighting-type and Normal-type 'mons that may try to come in an KO it with Knock Off and Shadow Ball. Other than that, I agree that Gastly should move up because it was pretty good during the Missy era, and it's only become a more a threatening post-ban.

 

[Eren Yeagar]

Bunnelby B+ rank --> A- rank WHY: Much like gastly, bunnelby was also a good poke in the misdreavus era, but the major thing that hindered is , of course , misdreavus itself. Misdreavus is gone now, and now bunnelby got a huge threat out of the way. Now, why i want bunnelby to move up a rank is this thing is a monster since it's blessed with Huge Power , an ability that doubles its attack stat. With a blistering attack stat of 28(adamant and any + attack nature) or 26(other nature that does not benefit or hinder attack), this thing kills almost everything in LC that it hits super effectively or for neutral damage. With its best set being choice scarf, this thing is like meditite 2.0. Return/Frustration, its two strongest STABs, hits hard as a truck. Earthquake is also a nice move to use for bunnelby since it covers steel types like pawniard and magnemite, two very big threats in this meta, and almost hits hard as Return/Frustation.Wild Charge is also a great move for it for pokes that resist its normal STAB and earthquake. You can use wild charge to OHKO archen,fletchling, and a chance to OHKO vullaby after stealth rock damage. Bunnelby also has been gifted with u-turn, which pretty much hits almost any poke with good damage and you can keep your offensive momentum going. I do admit though that bunnelby has some downsides to it. Return can't OHKO bulky mienfoo(one of the best leads), so you have to use u-turn to a poke that can take a knock off or drain punch. Bunnelby is also really frail so it pretty much gets 1-2HKO'd by almost everything in this meta.I do believe that its strong power makes up for these downsides. Bunnelby is a great pokemon that can make a lot of dents to a team. Hopefully it moves up.

 

[Pancham]

So, I am going suggest a few changes, and you are all free to disagree.

Fletchling should move back down to A+, for now. Fletchling is too easily checked by offensive teams, and you don't even have to struggle with finding a check that fits your team. It can run coverage moves; however, when you do this, you lose things that let Fletchling be a much more scary threat, like Roost and Swords Dance. Also, when this happens, if the opponent isn't using the thing you're using said coverage mve for, you basically have a wasted move slot that won't be seeing any usage at all that match. Eg.: Steel Wing for Archen, but opponent does use Archen. Or, in another case, HPGrass for CHou/Tirt/Omanyte/etc, but they aren't being used either. Coverage mmoves can come in handy, but they can also be a thorn in Fletchling's side, however cute that side may be. Definitely undeserving of S-rank imo.

Now on to less controversial matters, Gastly should move up to A-. With the banning of Misdreavus, Gastly is no longer overshadowed by the tier's best mon. It is easily one of the best specially oriented attackers in the tier, next to Abra. It also has incredible support options, including Sub + Disable and Sub + Pain Split; there are also Will-o-Wisp, Destiny Bond, and a few others. Gastly's base Spe is no longer trolled that hard, and it can easily run Sucker Punch if you're really that scared of Abra.

I also think Stunky should move up to B-, at least. Stunky easily checks the two best specially oriented attackers I just pointed out, Gastly and Abra. It can also pursuit trap other threats in the tier, like the few other Psychic-types in the tier. Stunky also has Fire Blast to rid Ferroseed who think they're safe to switch-in, and Pawniard who try to set up. On top of this, Stunky is a decent Defogger,and hits 18 Spe just like Gastly, which is a great speed tier to hit in this meta.

The last few changes I think should be Zigzagoon and Bunnelby up to A-. Zig and Bunny no longer have to use Thef, which frees up a move slot for both. Zigzagoon can also hop on any team you're using FletchDig offense on, and easily become one of the best mons on said team. Bunnelby can now more easily wallbreak, no longer fearing the dreaded ghost that we all miss. Bunnelby can more easily spam Return and get a few kills, or useQuick Attack on quicker, more frail threats like Abra, and pivot out with U-turn when you're not sure of what to do.

 

[Superpowerdude]

Want drifloon to move up to B-

Yes it is not the best mon being weak to Knock Off and Stealth Rocks but it can fill some useful spots on teams. It makes for a nice "birdspam" pokemon to pair with Fletchling. It lures in similar Pokemon that beat Fletchling e.g Pawnaird, Archen, Chinchou etc and it can keep spamming substitute or use Endure untill Berry Juice is activated so it can outspeed things like Scarf Pawnaird with Unburden kicking in then it can use Destiny Bond to punish the Pokemon that takes it out, which lets Fletchling sweep much easier. Even without Unburden, Drifloon reaches 17 speed which is pretty decent.

It can also run another move over Destiny Bond if you don't care for it as a lure team mate for fletch, Hidden Power Fighting being the best option so it has something to beat Pawnaird. I have also seen Endure +Weakness Policy sets. So when something goes for Knock Off it lives and gets the Unburden and Spa +Atk boost which can help it sweep with Acrobatics and Shadow Ball. The main problem with this set is the common priority users that run around the tier can stop it easily e.g opposing fletch, tirtouga, etc. Although being immune to Mach Punch Quick Attack and Extreme Speed does help.

The main flaws are again being very Pawnaird and Knock Off weak, it has severe 4mss since it wants to run either Endure / sub to activate Unburden shenanigans and it wants its two stabs Shadow Ball and Acrobatics. So it only really has one slot to play around with. Also its not too strong offensively, having a max of 15 special attack with a neutral nature. However keep in mind it still has more chances to shine with Missy gone and it is a good partner for Fletchling, also remember I am not nomming it for A+ Im nomming it for B-

 

[dsr95]

I'm here just to say that Azurill should be at least on D rank. Not on Smog Frog rank lmao. Azurill has use under TR, having Knock Off, Return, Waterfall to hit the metagame with solid damage. I don't think there's any reason to have it as Smog Frog :/

 

[boo836]

As Adam and I've been hyping recently, Stunky has A LOT of potential now on defensive teams, due to its ability to check the most threatening wallbreakers in this meta- Gastly, Abra, and Resttalk Gothita (it can sorta check Pawniard as well). I would actually go so far as to move it up to B as opposed to B-, just because Stunky also has support options that solidifies its role beyond a simple niche.

However, I completely disagree with moving Fletchling down. The having multiple checks doesn't hurt Fletchling's viability whatsoever. Just because it has checks, it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be S rank. Pokemon like Pawniard also have a shitton of checks, but its presence still offers a MASSIVE advantage. Fletchling provides chip damage earlygame and is a nigh-unstoppable cleaner in the lategame. I'd actually argue that a well played Fletchling is just as great at grabbing momentum as Mienfoo is.

Also, I'm strongly against raising Gastly up to A if the reason is that it's a Ghost type. Missy's advantage didn't come from being a Ghost, it came from being damn good at nearly everything. If Gastly is A rank, it's because of its amazing wallbreaking ability (it's also one of the few wallbreakers that isn't average where speed is concerned) and the offensive pressure it places on the opponent.

 

[Yagura]

Also, I'm strongly against raising Gastly up to A if the reason is that it's a Ghost type. Missy's advantage didn't come from being a Ghost, it came from being damn good at nearly everything. If Gastly is A rank, it's because of its amazing wallbreaking ability (it's also one of the few wallbreakers that isn't average where speed is concerned) and the offensive pressure it places on the opponent.

I'm sorry but did you even read my post? I didn't ask for Gastly to raise up to A just because it's a Ghost-type, and with that logic why did I go with Gastly, why not Shuppet or Litwick? they're also Ghost-types but they aren't viable as much as Gastly is. Yes I do understand that Misdreavus is way better than Gastly and that's why I wanted it to raise up to A not S. I don't really want to repeat my previous post but this is the viability rankings which means that Pokémon are based through they're viability and Gastly became more viable after Misdreavus' ban, not that it's used now to replace but because it faced competition from it and that one of Gastly's biggest revenge killers was Misdreavus.