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Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by jackm, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. jackm


    Dec 12, 2011
    This is a team I dreamed up off of a Genesect/Kyogre core; it's a stall-type team that attempts to utilize Genesect's natural power over offensive teams to try to force their hands. Please note that I am, incidentally (look at my post count) not the most experienced at this, so hopefully the team isn't complete trash.

    Team Building:
    Show Hide
    First of all, I knew that I wanted to use a core of Scarf Genesect and Bulky Kyogre.


    Next, I added Ferrothorn to act as a more defensive Steel and back up Kyogre in times of need. I also needed the Spikes to take advantage of the switches that Genesect forces.

    I needed a Rapid Spinner as well, to mitigate the stress on Genesect that gets cause from switching in repeatedly. From the panel of viable Rapid Spinners in the tier (Excadrill, Forretress, lolTentacruel) only one fit the bill of being able to bring something new to the table while not being redundant. It also brings the added bonus of Stealth Rock...

    Now I needed a spinblocker, to keep all of my hazards on the field. I threw in the natural choice, Giratina-O.

    Finally, I wanted a good bulky pivot that could rack up damage and get some status on my opponent. Multiscale Lugia took the cake for its amazing bulk and ability to check so many threats that could otherwise be potentially problematic.


    After testing for a bit, I decided to replace Giratina-O with Arceus-Ghost, because it isn't crippled as much by burn and has reliable recovery. It also acts as a sort of defensive check to a variety of threats, allowing some of the pressure to be taken off of Lugia.


    So, without further ado, I present:


    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 32 SAtk / 224 Spd / 252 Atk
    Hasty Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bug Buzz
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Beam

    Man, I love this guy. I can't tell you how many pickles this bug/laser/genocide/THING has gotten me out of. It checks a lot of common things that stall often has a hard time with; examples include Darkrai, Mewtwo, and Rayquaza.
    It's also pretty much always my lead, just because its U-Turn can get quite the smack on pretty much any opposing lead and because it prevents Darkrai from setting up while maintaining momentum. That said, if my opponent has a Ho-oh in their lineup I usually lead with Kyogre to force it into submission before it can get a Substitute up. The moveset is a bit of a merger between common physically based sets and the less common specially based sets; I run bug moves in both spectrums to be able to hit Mewtwo hard no matter what, and just because Buzz is a decent cleaner move at +1. Iron Head shreds Kyurem-W; Ice Beam is self-explanatory.

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam/Thunder Wave/Calm Mind

    With the advent of Soul Dew Latias, Kyogre has gotten a little more defensive in nature. This set is a general defensive pivot, being able to switch multiple times into a variety of threats due to its great bulk. This is my main check to Kyurem-W, although an extremely shaky one at that. Kyogre can switch into +Speed Life Orb Kyurem-W Draco Meteor and barely (though assuredly) avoid a 2HKO after Stealth Rock, meaning that I can rest through the defensive drops and move from there. That said, however, if I run into a Specs variant, I'd better predict correctly or something is going to feel the wrath. Scarfed variants are easy, though. :) Anyways, back on topic. Scald is standard fare, Restalk for recovery. The one place where I'm really at a loss is in the fourth moveslot, though. None of the auxilary secondary options really seem like they help very much, but I'm leaning towards using Thunder Wave to catch miscellaneous stuff on the switch, but I need convincing.

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Careful Nature
    - Spikes
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip

    Good ol' Ferro. Consumer of Outrage, check to he who brings rain, absorber of "Bolt Strikes" (no good 'majestic' way to say that) and just generally a really great sponge. Spikes are a really integral part of this team's inner workings, and no one does it better, to be frank. Leech Seed and Spikes are a magic combination, taking advantage of stall and offense alike. Protect is standard fare, and Power Whip is there to hit Kyogre and Manaphy. Seriously though, there's nothing really to say here except "here, take this hit."

    Excadrill @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Stealth Rock

    This set is a bit of an amalgamation of the offensive and defensive common Excadrill sets, but it works. It brings and eradicates hazards, both while posing enough of a threat to not be set up on. It really helps to have your spinner be 4x resistant to Stealth Rock too; neither of the aforementioned qualities are things Forretress can boast, and while I hold Forretress dear to my heart, it just doesn't fit on this team. Mold Breaker, though unorthodox, is enormously useful for being able to hit Lati@s and Giratina-O through Levitate with Earthquake. I'm a little iffy on whether I should replace Rock Slide with something else, but I really like that it occasionally allows me to catch a Ho-oh on the switch. If someone has a more efficient EV spread, please tell me; I just maximized Attack and then dumped the rest into bulk, but I feel like I could get more out of it.

    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 116 Spd / 140 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Judgment
    - Roar

    This Pokemon is a bit "piece de resistance"-esqe for the team. Arceus-Ghost is a fantastic Physical Wall, being able to check/counter Extremekiller Arceus, Terrakion, SD Rayquaza, and pretty much anything else that hates being burned. I replaced Giratina-O with this, and as I've probably evinced, it works enormously well.The extra speed is a huge bonus; with a Timid nature and 116 EVs, it outspeeds everything up to Max Speed Garchomp, enabling it wreak havoc on a lot of the slower, stall based behemoths of the tier. The moveset should seem fairly self-explanatory, so let's move on.

    Lugia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 192 Spd / 208 HP / 108 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Toxic
    - Whirlwind

    Well, I'm a bit of a basket case about this one. I really like Lugia, but it just feels a little forced on this team. I wanted a good physical tank that could phaze and status, and I guess I got it, but still. The moveset is fairly standard, with enough speed to hit the "Garchomp" bar I set earlier and enough HP to hit 405. I'm looking for something else to take this thing's place, but I just can't find it. It counters a lot of stuff, though.

    Thanks for reading this RMT, and I hope I didn't depress you too much when I talked about Lugia. Input is appreciated!

    PS: Unless you have crazily good justification for it, I'll tell you right now: I'm not going to add a 4th steel to my team.

    PPS: No dragons woot woot
  2. evillocke


    Oct 16, 2012
    Hi. I know how you said bulky excadrill works fine, but, maybe you should use kabutops over it becuase he can swift swim, therefore getting the spin in. He can also give out lighting-fast toxics.
  3. His Eminence Lord Poppington II

    His Eminence Lord Poppington II proverb:the fish who eats most dies still too
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jul 29, 2010
    excadrill's spread can be optimised by investing in its SDef, honestly you don't need max attack either; this spread works fine - 96 hp / 136 atk / 200 spd / 76 spe. honestly, outspeeding support dialga is very important as it allows you to check it a lot better under rain.

    arceus ghost should go up to 168 speed to outspeed hasty rayquaza and burn it. focus blast should replace roar so you can at least hit arceus rather than just shuffle it; with roar lum berry variants destroy you.

    on kyogre roar should be used over ice beam / t-wave etc otherwise ghostceus can continue to boost and eventually beat you, using calm mind of your own means you still lose to cm latias with psyshock and honestly isn't worth it. roar lets you shuffle on predicted switches and check all commonly seen cm arceus formes effectively.

    you should just use standard great wall lugia's EVs and use pressure over multiscale. multiscale is too unreliable to check threats, and pressures effect is really underestimated in extended matches. 252 hp 176 def 80 sp.d with a bold nature will be fine.

    good luck
  4. Furai

    Furai we will become who we are meant to be
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    May 4, 2010
    I honestly can't stand how Choice Specs Kyogre weak this team is. Sure, you have Specially Defensive Kyogre and Ferrothorn, but both are easily 2HKOed by Thunder and Water Spout, respectively. Gliscor can also beat you alone by simply Toxic Stalling everything. Kyogre and Lugia will be shut down by Taunt, and the rest of your team can't do much at all.

    Thankfully, there is a very simple patch for this. I honestly don't see what Lugia is doing for you, if to be honest; you take physical hits just well by using Ferrothorn and Lugia, and special hits are easily handled by Ferrothorn and Kyogre. I believe that using Calm Mind Latias over Lugia would be the better option. Thanks to Soul Dew, Latias is capable of easily beating Kyogre, and with Refresh, Gliscor can't do much to her, whereas +0 Dragon Pulse does over 60% with ease. 192 Speed EVs is enough to outrun Garchomp, which is basically enough; you can go with max Speed by sacrificing some bulk, but I believe that your team would appreciate the bulk more. 204 SpA easily KOs Palkia with Dragon Pulse and 112 HP ensure that Modest Scarf Kyogre's, full powered Water Spout, is only a 3HKO after SR.
    Latias (open)
    Latias @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 112 HP / 204 SpA / 192 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Refresh

    Best of luck.
  5. jackm


    Dec 12, 2011
    Thanks for the rates, everybody!

    I like your idea, but after testing a Kabutops in the place of the Excadrill I've found that I miss the bulk that Exca brings to the role of Spinner. Thanks for the idea, though.

    Thanks for the Excadrill set, it's working great; Roar on Kyogre is helpful as well. While an argument could be made for having Arceus able to outspeed Base 100's and 102's, I suppose the extra bulk is useful.

    Seeing as I've replaced Lugia with Latias, your advice on the EV spread for Lugia is rendered somewhat void. Thanks for it anyways.

    While I was slightly skeptical at first about the commonness of Specs Kyogre, Latias has helped nonetheless with a variety of threats and really glues the team together. Thanks for the suggestion.

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