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Leads in NU

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Elegy96, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. FireMage

    FireMage Ellie :]
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 16, 2012
    Pokemon Name: Ninjask
    Lead Type: Support Lead
    What it does: Baton Pass Speed Boosts, Swords Dance boosts, Hone Claws Boosts, Pinch Berry Boosts if you're Feeling particularly ballsy.
    Why it is good: With the usage of multi-hit moves such as Rock Blast dwindling (not altogether gone, but I've found them quite the rarity with Cinccino gone) Ninjask can more often than not setup against something and is almost guaranteed to get a pass off, supporting your team with a variety of options. Of course Ninjask isn't without it's faults, it struggles against Taunt and is stripped of 50% of it's health when switching in with rocks on the field.
    What counters it: As previously mentioned, anything with (Priority)Taunt, phazing moves, priority and multi-hit moves to get through its subs and sash before it can pass could be deemed a counter.

    Example Set

    Ninjask @ Focus Sash/Leftovers
    Speed Boost
    248 HP / 224 Def / 36 Spe
    -Baton Pass
    -Swords Dance/Protect
    -X-Scissor / U-Turn

    X-Scissor for not-so Taunt bait, I guess you could use a pinch berry - Focus sash almost guarantees you are able to pass off at least one speed boost.
  2. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 21, 2011
    You definitely want to be using Leftovers on Ninjask. The 6% recovery allows you get off more Substitutes and with Protect makes it very effective to stall for Speed boosts. The amount of defensive investment means that Focus Sash is not really needed to set up Swords Dances anyways. Having Leftovers with Protect gives you multiple chances to boost up as well as is much more reliably for teams that depend on Ninjask passing speed. (Full Baton Pass and NinWak combo come to mind) Having Substitute in the set already ruins the Focus Sash, so there really isn't any reason to use it.

    Other than that Ninjask is a decent Pokemon to be leading with but I would not recommend it as something that should be leading all the time. Golem is starting to get more traction again and it absolutely destroys Ninjask with Rock Blast. Even Piloswine can beat it easily with Icicle Spear + Ice Shard. This is pretty much the reason that teams incorporating Ninjask have narrowed themselves down to NinWak or full BP. At least with Marowak you have an effective way of taking down Golem and a good recipient of the Speed boosts.
  3. saucemonkey1


    Jan 15, 2013
    I always use a Leichi Berry on my Ninjask in order to guarantee an attack boost, rather than trying to rely on Swords Dance. Substitute + Protect work well for scouting, and X-Scissor is definitely preferable to Swords Dance so you aren't getting Taunted or set up on easily. With the Leichi Berry, three subs will gain 3 Speed Boosts, one Attack raise and if you're really lucky a Substitute, but I wouldn't count on it. Of course, you definitely need team support for this one, like a Rapid Spinner, as Ninjask can't exactly do much after it passes, but as long as you have the right mon for the job, +3 or 4 Speed and +1 Attack is enough to sweep entire teams. The Pokemon I saw most effective with this Ninjask was Rampardos, who, with Mold Breaker, was able to OHKO everything not holding a Focus Sash with only Rock Slide, Earthquake, Brick Break and Crunch and holding a Leftovers.
  4. Nyara


    Nov 5, 2012
    Ninjask with Focus Sash should have 252 EV's on attack in order to threat things with 2+ X-Scissors, while Leafovers should forgoe the idea of passing a Sword Dance as it's really hard to pass it without Focus Sash. Substitute sets are usually full HP and some on it's defenses in order to being able to overcome some priority users, still prone to the death to Rock Blast, but you can still use Protect + Baton Pass, and pass at least 1+ of speed. Any pinch berry can work on the place of Leafovers, but it make you harder against priority and you'll be unnable most probably to Baton Pass twice on a single game, and you'll most probably pass not too much speed, so, it depends of the team.

    At the end, it depends of what boosts and the number of times you may need it on the match as the set that should have Ninjask. 2+ Attack 1-2+ Speed = Focus Sash (1-2 times per match) / 1+ Attack 2-4+ Speed = Substitute + Pinch Berry (1 time for the attack, 2-3 times for the speed) / 2-6+ Speed = Substitute + Leafovers (2-4 times per match most sure)

    Focus Sash + Sword Dance can overcome and punish Taunt like a king. Rock Blast and priority screw this.

    Pinch Berry + Substitute is a decent mid point where you can aim for any extra stat boost.

    Leafovers + Substitute is a pure speed-passer, weak to Taunt, strong against priority. It's usually able to pass multiple times.

    Pinch and Focus Sash should be usually used as leads, as Stealth Rock really screw them, badly, the Leafovers one is also prone to Stealth Rock, but it can still pass some 1+ or 2+ boost on mid game.
  5. FireMage

    FireMage Ellie :]
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    Mar 16, 2012
    I can't rember the exact Ninjask set I've used in the past - It's probably the one in the op. After laddering today, I've found out that some people use u-turn which is great if you're in against something you can't set up on and need to make a quick getaway and would rather not switch - something I hadn't considered until I encountered it.

    @ebeast - I've encountered some annoying Sub/Protect Ninjask which do a good job at recovering a little to build up speed boosts to come back in later. I'll add a slash then.

    I think Ninjask is one of those mons you can customise to suit the needs of your team as Pinch berries and Speed boosts are always helpful.
  6. The Quasar

    The Quasar
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 27, 2012
    I used Glalie as RSE NU hazard leader in recent "Back to the Future" Tournament. I think many considerations done in this metagame, still be valid in BW NU, too. Above-average speed and decent stats, the purpose is to put more spikes possible, as you rightly said. For this reason I like to spend some EVS also the SpD, while maintaining the maximum Spe and enough for SpA. I use also Crunch for a switch to any pokemon who resist Ice Beam (Musharna, Gardevoir and common -ghost and -water type). Lum Berry ensures at least one round of additional spikes, if it attacked by Toxic, too.

    That's the set:

    Glalie (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 212 SAtk / 44 SDef / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Spikes
    - Crunch
    - Ice Beam
    - Explosion
  7. Constantinipple


    Dec 21, 2012
    Is the OP going to be updated anytime soon? It's been over a month now but the original poster is still active..
  8. zwab


    Apr 11, 2010
    I was wondering the same thing, Cinccino's been gone for a while, I do wonder if there's anything out there that could suitably place it as an offensive lead, Cinccino was awesome because it had power, and the ability to run away with u-turn in unfavorable match-ups.

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