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Legendary Pokes - One of a kind or just super-rares?

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Scorpio, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. Scorpio

    Scorpio

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    Something I've sort of wondered about the legendary Pokemon is which ones are one-of-a-kind 'PokeGods' in-universe, and which ones are just super-rare powerful Pokemon. So I've done what any Smogon-er would do and decided to ask you guys for your opinions/clarification.

    Here's a few lists I've made so far. These are determined mostly by usage by other trainers and/or relevance in their game's story.

    One-of-a-kind:
    Show Hide

    -Mewtwo
    -Mew
    -Lugia
    -Ho-oh
    -Celebi
    -Groudon
    -Kyogre
    -Rayquaza
    -Jirachi
    -Uxie
    -Mesprit
    -Azelf
    -Dialga
    -Palkia
    -Giratina
    -Manaphy
    -Shaymin
    -Arceus
    -Victini
    -Reshiram
    -Zekrom
    -Kyurem
    -Xerneas
    -Yveltal
    -Zygarde

    ...basically all the ~680 BST mons and legendary pixies.


    Just Super-rare:
    Show Hide

    -Articuno
    -Zapdos
    -Moltres
    -Raikou
    -Entei
    -Suicune
    -Regirock
    -Regice
    -Registeel
    -Latias
    -Latios
    -Heatran
    -Phione (though 'legendary' is disputable)


    Unsure:
    Show Hide

    -Deoxys
    -Regigigas
    -Cresselia
    -Darkrai
    -Cobalion
    -Terrakion
    -Virizion
    -Tornadus
    -Thundurus
    -Landorus
    -Keldeo
    -Meloetta
    -Genesect
  2. lucariomaster2

    lucariomaster2

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    Well, it's been stated several times in the Pokemon universe that Lugia have been seen with their offspring, so there's definitely more than one of them.
    In the movie, there were 5 Genesect (One of them shiny), so there's obviously more than one of them as well; they're just super-rare. (Read: kept in a laboratory to protect the world from them).
  3. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
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    ^ There is no singular Pokemon canon. Each form of media (games, animu, manga, etc) represents its own, separate canon.

    As a general rule though, I'm pretty sure that the "Word of God" answer (to use a trope name) is that legendary Pokemon aren't necessarily one-of-a-kind, just very rare. For instance, your contention that Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina are "one of a kind" is directly contradicted by an event where Arceus creates a Dialga, Palkia, or Giratina out of nothing despite taking place after the events of Platinum. And that's not to mention trying to explain why multiple trainers have found stuff like the pixies, legendary birds, etc in different regions (i.e. the PCs of DPPt or BW2). It's best not to think too much about these things because Gamefreak/Nintendo doesn't care about lore or consistency too much, kind of like how Zelda fans have been fighting for years over the timeline of the games or if the Links are even the same.
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  4. Mulan15262

    Mulan15262

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    If we are considering the anime, then Tornadus, Thundurus, and Landorus are just super-rare. They appear on the Island of Legends (before Ash battles Clay, when he looks for revival herbs), and then again in the undersea temple (episode Unova's Survival Crisis).

    Genesect also are just very rare because 5 of them exist in Genesect and the Legend Awakened.

    The legendary dogs would be one-of-a-kind due to the circumstance of their creation.

    Heatran and the Lati twins would just be super-rare because they can be caught in their region (Hoenn for Lati@s, Sinnoh for Heatran), and then again in BW2.
  5. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
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    I'd have to disagree again. There is no indication that the ones Ho-oh resurrected are the only ones of their kind. If the beasts weren't already Entei/Raikou/Suicune at the time of their death, Ho-oh is some awesome weird species changing necromancer. Pokedex entries are generally exaggerated but for legendary Pokemon they tend to be accurate; Entei is said to be born every time a new volcano is formed and we have multiple volcanoes both active and dormant featured in games canon (Mt. Chimney, Mt. Ember, Mt. Battle if you consider Orre canon). Therefore, there are at least 3 Entei, not to mention the fact that the beasts are obtainable in Kanto and Johto. Yes, Kanto and Johto are connected, but FRLG chronologically takes place before HGSS so they cannot be the same ones.

    Also, you have no idea how excited I am to have a lore discussion about Pokemon and I don't care how little Gamefreak and Nintendo care about it.
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  6. Codraroll

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    There has to be several Entei, at least. Just look at its Pokédex entries:

    I think I've seen the wording "one is born every time a volcano erupts" somewhere too, but that might not have been canon.

    In other words, it seems like Entei reproduce by roaring.
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  7. lucariomaster2

    lucariomaster2

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    I'm gonna assume that the Swords of Justice (minus Keldeo) are one-of-a-kind. Why? After the war that was talked about in their Dex entries, it is stated that they went into hiding. The player then finds Cobalion, still in hiding. Since BW2 takes place after BW, we can infer that they came out of hiding between the events. (I know that this doesn't make a lot of sense considering that the player catches them, and they still show up if you use Memory Link, but w/e)

    Anyway, the point is that if Cobalion et. al. went into hiding, and there were others of their species, then there would have been reported sightings. But there weren't any afaik.
  8. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    Either that or they pulled a Lord Lucan and were really good at hiding. According to the timeline of the Anime not even Jirachi is one of a kind considering theyve seen it a few times in much less than 1000 years... Lugia as said before cannot be one of a kind as we see younger Lugia's in the anime films.

    The anime has huge issues with this list you have created imo... It shows legendaries almost at will when it brings the plot to a point. I would say that no Pokemon is strictly unique apart from maybe Zekrom/Reshiram/Dialga/Palkia/Giratina and Arceus. I would hope that things like Kyogre and Groudon are also one of a kind but who knows? :|
  9. SapphSabre777

    SapphSabre777

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    In fact, there are so many things in both canons that could indeed constitute the possibility of multiples. The biggest thing for the games is what you said: the anime and movies just butcher it as well in their own way.

    To be quite honest, ANY Legendary Pokemon has the possibility of having multiples thanks to these glaring contradictions. So really...the "one-of-a-kind" motif should really be re-worded to something else, but that is just me.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
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  10. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
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    Dialga & co. can never be unique because Arceus is shown to just create more whenever it feels like it. There are multiple Regigigas, said to have moved the continents....I don't think one Groudon shaped all of the landmasses. The anime tends to portray legendary Pokemon are far less omnipotent and even weaker than they are in the games.

    Out of those, Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem have the best case due to the circumstances of their creation. I doubt we will ever see the original dragon they formed from so how could there be multiple?

    As for the gen 5 legends....give it a few years and probably another generation. It's too soon for multiples to show up. After all, they need to sell plushies of the new stuff :P All that evidence shows is that the Swords in hiding are the same ones of legend....but still no convincing evidence they're the only ones. Legendary Pokemon are very, very, very, very rare so it's possible no one saw any or if they did, records weren't kept well.

    The most interesting thing is the issue of Arceus' uniqueness. Arceus hatching from its egg was the Pokemon equivalent of the Big Bang. Arceus' egg formed from the chaos at the beginning of the universe....are there multiple? Multiple Arceus would mean multiple universes. So either they could wrap around and say that multiple Arceus formed the different Pokemon universes or it could be a reference to the real life scientific dilemma of whether there are universes other than our own and introduce some element of scientific/philosophical depth. Most likely though, they'll just have one appear randomly and hope that the kids watching won't be the same ones who saw Jewel of Life, like how apparently a bunch of different scientists operating independently could come up with the same results (Mewtwo).
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  11. Codraroll

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    ^I wouldn't say that the Anime and movies portrays Legendaries as weaker than in the games. Perhaps in some regards, but in others, it's a different matter entirely.

    The second movie has Lugia downing a Flying Fortress of Doom with a single Hyper Beam. Zapdos generates enough electricity to nearly knock Pikachu out by speaking to it, and Articuno pretty much manages to freeze the ocean effortlessly. Further down the line of movies, Celebi vaporizes a lake with Psybeam, you see Dialga and Palkia lift an entire town out of existence, and who can forget the anime episodes where Kyogre summon 100-meter tidal waves?

    That being said, inconsistency is rampant. Arceus should be powerful enough to lol its way out of any agony in its movie, for instance.
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  12. Integer Mova

    Integer Mova

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    Legendary Pokemon seem to merely be super-rare. If the Pokemon world was real, and even if people didn't suck, I think there would still only be a thousand or so of each minor legendary species, due to the time it takes for them to breed in the wild, and how they could refuse to breed under a Trainer's control.

    However, Mewtwo would still be the rarest of them all.
  13. NoahStar

    NoahStar

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    This is not true. The events of G/S/C/HG/SS happen around the same time as D/P/Pt as seen in the beginning of of the Sinnoh games storyline. Henceforth, it is very possible that when Arceus created the Creation Trio in HG/SS, Game Freak decided to ignore the fact that you obtain one of these Pokemon and that this trio is the same as the trio that appears in D/P/Pt. Something like this happens in the Pokemon Adventures manga.

    As for the other legendary Pokemon, it is pretty clear that Zapdos, Articuno, and Moltres are not one of a kind but instead very rare and scarce throughout the world. Mew, Jirachi, Regigigas, Arceus, the Swords of Justice trio, Zekrom, Reshiram, Kyurem, Xernues, Yveltal, and Zygarde are all most certainly a one of a kind species.

    Mewtwo and Genesect cannot be a one of a kind entity because they are both man-made Pokemon. As long as one has the resources and technology, one can create either of these Pokemon.

    The Regi trio, Lati@s, Rayquaza, Kyogre, Groudon, Cresellia, Darkrai, Manaphy, Heatran, Shaymin, Victini, Meloetta, Tornadus, Thundurus, and Landorus are all disputable because the game cannon hints in one way or another that there can be multiple of these Pokemon and half of them are never actually stated to be 'Pokemon of legend' like most Legendary Pokemon are.

    Ho-Oh and Lugia are in a gray area. The game itself is pretty clear in that these 2 are sacred one of a kind Pokemon but both are obtainable in both G/S/C/HG/SS and FR/LG. Because of the way that Raikou, Suicune, and Entei were born, its pretty safe to say that there can't be multiples of these Pokemon.

    Theoretically, since Deoxys is a space virus, there could be multiple 'copies' of it floating around in space....

    Because Celebi is able to travel through time, there could very possibly be over thousands of Celebi out there but they would all be the same Celebi...just in different times....time theory stuff XD
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  14. Kadew

    Kadew Shamed.
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    So far as I can tell, the "legendary" moniker simply means "there are legends about this pokemon." People made stories, spun strings about the greatness and mightiness of these pokemon that may or may not be accurate. Heck, arcanine is the 'legendary' pokemon, because there are legends about it. Maybe in the past it actually was considered legendary until it was so domesticated and prevalent that it was demoted, and it's dex entry title is just a nod to its legacy.

    Because of this falliablility of mythos and the title merely coming from story, most of these pokemon I consider to merely be very, very rare. Unwilling to breed in captivity, low worldwide population, rarity and above-average power spawning myths and legends. Some small hoenn fishing villagers see some kyogre and groudon fighting in the long-ago past, and consider it a pair of great titans duking it out for the fate of the land and sea, but really it's a territorial dispute. See the legendary beasts running out of a tower, "hey they must have been born from the tower because I left my eevees in there before the blaze started". There are probably large swarms of shaymin in existence, the movie even proves this, but they get titled as "legendary" because Floraroma town incorporates shaymin in their founding myth. Volcanoes are probably teeming with heatran, but how often do people hang out in volcanoes to find out? Lugia surface so rarely that people think there's only one. So on, so forth.

    Mewtwo and genesect, being born of scientific experiments, may be unique at the moment but are totally replicable, because any good scientific experiment you can repeat to get similar results. Just a matter of if any bonehead scientists have tried it out again.

    Space virus mon? What kind of lousy virus doesn't go out and multiply? The whole point of dna is that it divides, I would be seriously skeptical of there being only one.

    The only pokes that I suspect might be unique in existence are the trio of zekrom/reshriam/kyurem because of their unusual origins (but I bet there are multiple of whatever the original unified dragon's species was), and arceus and the creation/lake trios because I totally buy into the arceist creation myth like the religious schmuck that I am.
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  15. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
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    First of all, DPPt are not concurrent. The way games canon works is if remakes and sequels contradict something said in an earlier game, the later game takes precedence. Whatever happens at the Spear Pillar in D/P are officially non-canon which is confirmed by Cynthia's appearance in B/W (That was beyond my expectation! What an exceptional battle! You certainly bear a resemblance to that Trainer who faced Giratina... Oh, pardon me.) Also, many events in GSC were rendered noncanon in HGSS.

    The events of Sinjoh ruins happens after Platinum based on Cynthia's actions. She's doing her research in Platinum:
    "'Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One.' I think this quote, too, points to the presence of another Pokémon. A Pokémon even more powerful than Dialga or Palkia. Does that sound plausible to you? I'm not quite sure how Giratina fits into this scheme of things, but... It's said that in the Distortion World, neither time nor space were stable. I think that tells us something about Giratina, the only Pokémon there. It must have been as powerful as Dialga and Palkia, the rulers of time and space. In some way, though, Giratina has to have a power opposite of theirs."

    And she's completed her research by HG/SS:
    "All my study of ruins and Pokémon mythology in Sinnoh may have been to bring you up on this stage here today... Depicted on the Mystri Stage are the Pokémon that shaped this world. The circle in the middle is Arceus, the origin of it all..."
    "This is the pattern that represents Giratina, the ruler of the world that is on the opposite side of ours, the world of antimatter..."

    And the most telling evidence this occurs after Platinum:
    "So you choose Giratina, the ruler of the Distortion World?"

    How can she be in both Sinnoh and the Ruins of Alph at the same time? And how can she know of Arceus when she could not name it in Celestial Town nor did she know the purpose of Giratina? How did she know of the details of Distortion World, a different dimension no one visited about until the end of Platinum? From this evidence we can conclude that Sinjoh Ruins occurs after Spear Pillar in Platinum.

    There is a difference between games happening concurrently and at the exact same time (no matter how much you take the dictionary meaning at face value). Yes, Pt and HGSS occur in the same time period. But there can be events happening in each that take place before or after each other and the evidence overwhelmingly supports Sinjoh Ruins occurring after Platinum. Establishing all of that, there are multiple Dialga/Palkia/Giratina. If you don't buy all of this evidence, the fact Arceus DID create them out of thin air regardless of context is evidence enough for me and I'm not sure you can be saved.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
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  16. Seevea

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    I would like to argue that several mons aren't necessarily unique or rare, but rather regional. The main ones would be the Weather trio, Creation trio, Lake trio, Lunar duo, and Morality trio. The theory would be that Arceus creates a localized environment for every region (counting Kanto+Johto as a single region). While it might seem odd that they're not seen in every region, it should be noted that many of these mons needed a region-specific item to be uncovered or a specific event to happen. To finalize this theory, I'd also argue that the Unova region is actually an isolated region-making all of the legends there unique to the region, with only Genesect having multiple species (due to its artificial creation). This may or may not change after the final fight with Ghetsis, which the clashing legends might cause attention to be dragged to the region (and explaining why mons from other regions suddenly start appearing). So, all other legends besides Arceus and the aforementioned are not unique, just very rare and hard to find. Also, I'd like to expand on what Kadew was saying about what causes a Pokemon to be legendary. I am of the mindset that there are actually 2 kinds of legends. The first is the kind that are vital parts of life, things like Groudon and Mew. The other kind is the kind that is in the slot of "legendary" because of its raw power and near-extinction, and both conditions must be fulfilled to be classed as such. This includes things like Mewtwo, Heatran, Zygarde, and Deoxys (also, since I notice nobody's pointed it out, Deoxys has been shown to have multiple of its species in both Pokemon Adventures and a Pokemon movie).
  17. BowlArt64

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    (I hope I don't come off as a pretentious science-douche, sorry if I do, but it's basically a platform to discuss exactly how Deoxys does it)
    The whole point of DNA is actually to store information in its base sequence that ultimately determines the sequence of amino acids in the cell's proteins, and it's the proteins, then, that determine what the cell/tissue does or how the organism looks/works (This is probably how Deoxys changes form(e)s: it contains all the genetic information necessary to have 50/180/160/180/160/180 base stats, but it can only express so many of these genes at once and only in certain patterns.) DNA doesn't even divide technically. It replicates semiconservatively using each strand of the double-helix as a template for building the complementary strand, yes, but at no point does a "single-helix" of DNA exist separately. The easiest way to picture it is like a rope. It takes a lot of energy to completely unravel the rope all at once, but it's easier if you cut one of the "strands" of rope and pull them in opposite directions. This type of thing happens in DNA, but once it's unraveled a bit, the place where it was "cut" is put back together, resulting in a replication bubble in which the new strands are constructed using the old strand as the template. The bubble can be "unzipped" in one direction with replication taking place along the way, and at the end you're left with two whole DNA double-helices with no true division having taken place.

    This raises one idea of how Deoxys can replicate/reproduce. I picture it happening like this: take two 3D models occupying the same exact space, with movements mirroring each other. They each start to lean out to separate sides simultaneously and eventually take a step in that direction, separating from each other completely. It's almost like it's splitting in half down the middle with each half remaking the other half as fast as it can, visually. This would probably mean that Deoxys can replicate itself on Earth, so we'd likely see more than we actually do (unless the Destiny Deoxys movie had a ton of different Deoxys on Earth, it's been forever since I've seen that). Which brings me to my other idea...

    Deoxys is a "space virus." I'm a bit reluctant to believe this because of its size and how alive and complex it seems (Earth viruses are just nucleic acids packaged in protein, nothing too special), but let's roll with it. Let's also assume that "space viruses" behave similarly to Earth viruses. That is to say, they have a specific kind of cell/organism they can use as a host, which does all the work of manufacturing new viruses using its hijacked metabolism. The host then lyses open/dies and releases the newly created viruses into the surrounding environment. I'm imagining that Deoxys uses some sort of organism not found on Earth as its host in some sort of chestburster alien pregnancy fashion (or if extraterrestrial life is big enough, maybe it really is naturally similar to our viruses), and because it has no hosts on Earth, it cannot replicate/reproduce on Earth and additional Deoxys could only be found in space. I think this makes more sense, honestly. What do you guys think?
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  18. BeastMode2010

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    I love game lore, especially pokemon lore. But I'm slightly biased because I don't watch the anime anymore (ash is the dumbest trainer and I tell at the tv more than I should). And as it has been mentioned all the different inputs distort the other.

    But this is how I see it.

    The box legendaries are unique, because a lot of them represent aspects of our world, in more if a godly way. (Except mewtwo)

    The generation in game legendaries are just rare, but not unique.

    The event based legendaries are also rare, just a whole lot more rare than the in game ones.
  19. BaffleBlend

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    I think Mew's more of in the "super-rare" category than "one-of-a-kind", especially since it's the protean species in poké lore. You can't evolve in the scientific sense if there's nobody to breed with. There's also the fact that they're still alive, since I doubt they're immortal.

    There are at least two distinct Mewtwos. The First movie and Fifteenth movie ones are canonically separate beings. And they might have crossbred with Mew at some point since they're a species, making me hope there are more roaming around. (I hate having one-of-a-kinds because I don't want my trainer to be a Gary Stu.)
  20. Karxrida

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    Anime Canon =//= Game Canon. Also, that fact that two Mewtwos exist is complete bullshit.
  21. BaffleBlend

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    I think I might have pushed someone's buttons. And I don't even LIKE the anime.

    But I thought it was plausible because of there being one in both Kanto and Kalos in the GAMES.
  22. Age of Kings

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    Using that logic, there are actually three....one in the Kanto of FRLG, one in Kanto again three years later in HGSS, and one in Kalos.
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  23. Karxrida

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  24. BaffleBlend

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    It's not so much an Anti-Frustration feature since everyone and their dog already had at least one.
    Like I said, I don't like the anime, but I take some points from it into my own interpretations of game events, especially since the games leave so many damn things ambiguous. If it's not contradicted, it could have happened.

    Excuse me if I just don't want to feel guilty for catching one.

    I'm not sure if that counts, considering the FRLG one and the HGSS one are in the same geographic location.
  25. CrushinDefeat

    CrushinDefeat Defeat me if you can... Survive if I let you!
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    I've always felt that the masters or rulers of certain things that exist in Pokemon, such as Palkia being the master of Space, or Arceus being the proverbial "God Pokemon" I think these kinds of pokemon fit the criteria of "PokeGods" each representing something that they have control over, or have contributed to. Some more examples include Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza having control of their respective zones of Land,Sea, Air while creating them. Pokemon that are however not masters or have control over certain kinds of things I would say are Rare Pokemon, Pokemon like the Three Beasts are what I consider Legendary pokemon, they're very rare and hard to come by.

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