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Discussion Levitate

Discussion in 'Policy Center' started by Dogfish44, Jan 3, 2013.

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  1. Dogfish44

    Dogfish44 Banned from 22 Casinos
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    This thread will be moderated to keep discussion focused.

    Levitate

    Levitate is a unique ability, since there are multiple parts to the implementation. First, let's look at the ability:

    [box]Levitate:

    Type: Trait

    This Pokemon naturally floats above the earth when released or easily takes flight, evading the Ground moves Bulldoze, Earthquake, Fissure, and Magnitude. Earth Power will have three (3) less Base Attack Power. Dig and Dive can strike a Levitating Pokemon if their user is over Size Class 4, has Levitate, is 3.5m or larger, or is a Flying-type. Otherwise Dig and Dive will miss. Ground moves can still hit. Levitate Pokemon will retain the Levitate trait when they use Skill Swap on an enemy, and will steal the opponent's ability (the user can specify if they want a foe or ally to gain Levitate from a Skill Swap.) If a Pokemon with Levitate uses Role Play, they will copy the opponent's abilities and retain Levitate.

    Pokemon with this ability: Gastly, Haunter, Gengar, Koffing, Weezing, Misdreavus, Unown, Vibrava, Flygon, Lunatone, Solrock, Baltoy, Claydol, Duskull, Chimecho, Latias, Latios, Mismagius, Chingling, Bronzor, Bronzong, Carnivine, Rotom, Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Cresselia, Giratina (Origin Forme), Tynamo, Eelektrik, Eelektross, Cryogonal, Hydreigon, Rebble, Bolderdash, Stratagem, Nohface.

    Pokemon that have the Levitate Trait without the ability (based on anime precedent, advanced wings, etc.):

    Beedrill, Venomoth, Mew, Celebi, Dustox, Shedinja, Volbeat, Illumise, Shuppet, Beldum, Jirachi, Deoxys, Victini, Klink, Klang, Klinklang, Accelgor, Volcarona.[/box]

    Now then, there are two points of contention here. The first is that Levitate is a Trait, which means that it cannot be removed in the usual manner. This is inconsistent with other traits as well, since Levitate is a positive effect, whilst Slow Start / Defeatist / Truant are all clearly negative.

    The other issue that has been raised here is the list of Pokemon that have Levitate... without the ability. A lot of people have argued it's unneeded, making the listed Pokemon more powerful than needed, whilst others have claimed that these Pokemon have anime precedent, which is more than enough.

    Now then, Levitate being unique has a command. However, this command is also unique in the fact that despite being tied to the ability levitate it is given to none of the Pokemon who actually have the ability in any way shape or form. This is shown below:

    [box]Levitate: The Pokemon hovers above the ground, avoiding all Bulldoze, Earthquake, Fissure, and Magnitude for three (3) actions. Earth Power's effectiveness is reduced by 3 BAP. Dig and Dive will also be avoided unless the user is above Size Class four (4), is 3.5m or longer, or has Levitate or the Flying type.

    Pokemon with the Levitate Command (Based on Anime precedent, basic wings, etc.):

    Magnemite, Magneton, Geodude, Staryu, Starmie, Porygon, Dragonair, Mewtwo, Dunsparce, Heracross, Forretress, Scizor, Porygon2, Nincada, Nosepass, Banette, Dusclops, Glalie, Metang, Metagross, Magnezone, Froslass, Probopass, Porygon-Z, Dusknoir, Garchomp, Dialga, Palkia, Darkrai, Arceus, Cottonee, Yamask, Cofagrigus, Solosis, Duosion, Reuniclus, Vanillite, Vanillish, Vanilluxe, Escavalier, Frillish, Jellicent, Litwick, Lampent, Chandelure, Druddigon, Golurk, Larvesta, Reshiram, Zekrom, Genesect, Revenankh.

    Command Type: Specific Pokemon | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 5 | Priority: 0 | CT: None[/box]

    Some people have argued that this command simply isn't needed, especially since it isn't required on a listing for a Pokemon's movepool, whilst others have argued that the list also allows for anime precedent, and it should be retained.

    Discussion should focus on the following three points:

    • Should Levitate be a trait, or should it be innate?
    • Should Levitate apply to only those with the ability, or should it extend to a collection of other Pokemon?
    • Should the Levitate command be kept or discarded?

    If there are any more points that you wish to expand on feel free to do so, but do remember to keep discussion as focussed as you can.
  2. Complications

    Complications

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    While at the moment I can't say I have an opinion on points A and B, I feel that Levitate should remain a command, as it provided a codified format for a flavor-based action that ha the potential to be seen frequently on Pokemon such as Metagross, Magnezone, and Chandelure, who all boast weaknesses to Ground type attacks and as such can capitalize on the command. If Levitate did not remain a command, and players merely ordered, "Float in the air," or, "Levitate," it would be up to the ref's discretion how the action would play out, which normally isn't a bad thing seeing as most flavor actions are fairly unique. However, for reasons stated above, Levitate has a potential to recur frequently in varying battles due to its positive effect on multiple high-usage Pokemon, and as such there may be major inconsistencies between how different refs view the action. Because of tg inconsistency that could occur, I believe that Levitate should remain a command for the listed Pokemon.
  3. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Levitate should be innate.

    I personally feel like the Levitate command should be discarded but if we're following anime canon keep the command for anything that has floated in the anime.

    Either way remove it from stuff like Volcarona that shouldn't have it.
  4. Gerard

    Gerard

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    Make a clear list with everything a Pokemon should be able to do in order to be able to have the levitate ability due to anime precedent, that way there's no reason to complain when one Pokemon gets it when another equally valid candidate doesn't (this would be mainly for the Magnezone vs Klinklang debate but is likely to come out in many more pokemons)

    Also, maybe power up the levitate command for the mons that will be left without it after such a change (probably make it a magnet rise clone, being able to be used by all Pokemon with levitate and many without it), though I think pokemons shuch as Beedrill, Dustox, Volbeat, Ilumise, Volcarona, the pixies, etc... Should still get it since they're ALWAYS depicted floating/flying, it's their way of movement unlike others abilities that only aid them by providing them with some boosts this pokemons would be unable to function without it, as they would be unable to really run or move effectively, this is the only way they can, unlike other abilities this one is necessary for them to function in the "real" world
  5. Pwnemon

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    The thing that's always annoyed me about people arguing for levitate to be a trait is that the arguments are just so nonsensical. I can break them into two categories:

    1) "Levitate is an innate part of the pokemon, so it doesn't make sense that you can disable or steal it." This is true for plenty of innate abilities - fuck, it's called innate for a reason. Does it make sense to steal Snorlax's Thick Fat? How about disabling Regice's Clear Body? What does Tentacruel become, if not Liquid Ooze? The point is, I don't get why only levitate is such a crucial part to a pokemon as to remain a trait where others are not.

    2) "Levitate is an only ability on all mons except Zong and Strata, therefore it should be a trait, to give the mons a boost." First off, this isn't even slightly close to true, what with all of the silly random other pokemon that get Levitate now. But even if those were rightfully removed - so what? There are plenty of mons that only get one ability but who don't get this lucky. It would make a lot more sense to say "if you only get one ability then it is given Trait status" rather than this gross inconsistency – especially given that not even every pokemon that gets levitate only has one ability anyways!
  6. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    This is the most relevant part of this discussion. Levitate is nothing special here.

    Remove Levitate from random Pokemon, call it a regular innate ability. Remove Traits altogether, change Slow Start, Defeatist, and Truant from Trait to Ability - Impairing, a new type which is active in no-ability matches.

    This new type would not be forced active in one-ability matches, which means Durant users can unlock it if they don't intend to play all-ability matches. Alternately, special case Durant so that it can choose whether or not to have it active the first time it switches in (and only the first, no backsies).
  7. Its_A_Random

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    Hi, just posting to remind you guys that the discussion is based on Levitate, its Trait status, & what gets it, or the command. Any other ideas not concerning Levitate, including the changing the name of the Trait class, is off topic, & such posts will be deleted/edited out. If you want to propose something like that, the feedback thread exists.

    Carry on as normal.
  8. ZhengTann

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    Agreeing on this. Let only mons that get Levitate in-catridge have them. Those that get the Trait without the ability could still retain the use of the Levitate command - as Comp said, it offers commonly-seen RP codification to avoid confusion while encouraging creativity within anime precedence.

    I could probably go in-depth about how birds and bugs are affected by earthquakes IRL, but never mind.
  9. Dogfish44

    Dogfish44 Banned from 22 Casinos
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    OK, might as well toss up my 2 cents.

    Levitate as a trait: Pwnemon summed up my thoughts on the matter brilliantly.There is nothing special about levitation, it is just as innate as anything else.

    Levitate on excess 'mons: For the sake of consistency, unless you want to go through the Anime and give every 'mon and it's mother an additional ability from precedent, then there is no reason Levitate should get the privilege.

    Levitate command: I'm a little more partial to this one. I actually don't mind, although I'd prefer we remove this as well. If it does pass the vote I'd like to mandate it on any of the listed Pokemon as the equivalent of a pre-25 level up move - i.e. you must show it in your pokemon's data.
  10. Its_A_Random

    Its_A_Random The imitated
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    There is not much else to discuss here, so let us wrap this thing up.

    There will be THREE votes that will happen simultaneously.

    • What type of ability should Levitate be? Trait / Innate
    • Should the Pokémon that get Levitate based on Anime Precedence have the Levitate Ability? Retain Levitate on Pokémon that get Levitate based on Anime Precedence / Remove Levitate from Pokémon that get Levitate based on Anime Precedence
    • Should the Pokémon that get Levitate based on Anime Precedence get the Levitate Command, & should the Levitate Command be retained? Give Pokémon that get Levitate based on Anime Precedence the Levitate Command / Do not give Pokémon that get Levitate based on Anime Precedence the Levitate Command / Remove the Levitate command completely
    I will expand on the outcome of each option in the vote, but yeah.
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