Serious LGBTQ

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cim

happiness is such hard work
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We are rather far from knowing the "cause" of becoming various kinds of gender or sexual minorities and it's not useful to speculate honestly.

Are there any genderqueer / genderfluid Smogonites? A few of my friends are starting to identify as such, and I find it really interesting / fascinating.
 
As of late I have been finding myself more and more identifying as transgendered, I am probably going to come out to my parents real soon. I am just going to copy something I posted in another forum to give a bit of an insite of where I am.

For the record, this goes way farther back than my weird adventure time fandom, I have been having these thoughts since like second grade, I have kind of repressed them though.

I use to cross dress a lot before my sister started wondering what where the hell her clothes were disappearing too. I stopped cold after my mom thought I was insane in saying I wasn't messing with my clothes at night when she found my room with clothes everywhere, when the truth was I was fashioning them into pseudo-dresses. Because of that lie I was forced to get brain scans as my mother thought I was having seizures or something. To this day my mother still thinks me waking up in the night and messing around was me sleep walking.

In part, I am just tired of lying and putting up this charade.
 
You probably don't know this, but I'm a transgender person who hasn't really been able to come out in real life without being shut down by my parents or whatever due to the fear (and, unfortunately, sometimes the manifestations) of persecution from all angles. I'm also bisexual (which I haven't revealed either) but that will be revealed alongside my 'abnormal' gender identity in due course. I've been feeling this way (and, in retrospect, displaying the signs) for a pretty long time, and it's pretty torturous to deal with. I have contemplated suicide more than once and have slipped into spiralling periods of depression even more often. But I promised 'story time', didn't I?

After some thorough reading and reflections on my past, I can safely say I've been exhibiting signs of having an alternate gender identity for an extremely long time. When I was smaller, almost all the socialisation I did (lol) was with girls, and I had to be goaded by parents and staff at my (Catholic) primary school to mix in with boys. I eventually did, in a sense, but I didn't feel right with them, and never really have felt comfortable in a situation where the only people around me (or most people around me) are male. I'd always ask for more femininely-oriented toys in shops (which were normally refused by my parents). If we were asked to line up in gender-segregated partitions, I'd go to the girls line before hastily being removed and placed in the 'right' area. Sometimes I'd even see how female-oriented clothing looked on me at shops! This was not received well by my parents, needless to say...

The first dreams I can remember where I was a girl were ones in Year 3, which I only remember because I recounted them to my mother in great detail, who was a little bit taken aback but never really said any more about them, although I probably had many more beforehand. I've been a girl in all the dreams I'm able to recall since then. In Year 4, I broke off from the group of boys I wasn't enjoying the closest friendship with and hung around with a group girls for the rest of the year. It really allowed me to bring out the feminine side of me which had been repressed over time by my parents, peers and teachers alike, and I enjoyed myself much more than I had been for a while.

Alas, all good things must come to an end: a sizeable majority of these girls left at the end of the year to go to greener pastures, and I was left quite destitute. I crawled back to my group of boys, but something had changed: I was no longer content to be forcibly disallowed to express myself. As the year went on, I acted increasingly feminine, completely disregarding the gender expectations subliminally placed on me by my 'group' and would start to quip quite often to one or two of them: 'I wish I was a girl.' In October 2009, something snapped. That was it. I wasn't taking this shit anymore. I would be as open as I humanly could.

So I sent an e-mail out to my peers (any I could find):


The plea at the end of the e-mail was fruitless. I took such an incredible amount of shit from a bunch of 10 and 11-year olds (usually boys, but sometimes genuinely confused girls) who either had no idea what I was talking about or just thought I was some kind of freak. This actually went completely over the teacher's heads (because nobody was really yielding to my request) until November 2009, where a girl I thought I could have trusted (and had told a lot more than the average person) stood up, right in the middle of class, and said these exact words, louder than ever:

"You still wanna be a girl?"

I burst into tears and was escorted to the front office, where I was forced to explain to them everything that had gone down (and give them the backstory in turn.) I was taken back to class after the staff there had extracted all the information from me. I was still in tears, and the class was in a state in dead silence for the remainder of the lesson.

I got home that afternoon. All was quiet on the Western front. At about 7:30 that night, my father told me he wanted me to come into his bedroom. I obliged, curious as to what he wanted. It wasn't pretty. He spent a full hour explaining to me that he had been notified that I was saying that '[you] wanted to be a girl' and attempted to goad me back into the never-before-seen world of being cisgender by saying that 'being a boy [was] better than being a girl ... [you're] just going through "puberty blues", they'll pass eventually', and some more things I don't particularly wish to divulge. I was so frightened by this reaction - this angry, cold-blooded outburst - that I withdrew into a shell and didn't associate with or speak to anyone (other than in passing) for the remainder of the year.

2009 was one of the worst years of my life. But it eventually ended.

In Year 6, almost all had been forgotten among my peers! No one remembered that I was a 'fucking freak'! I took this as the opportunity to gladly agree with anybody who would say to me, as if they were reminiscing on something that they just couldn't remember, 'you're like a girl in a boy's body, huh?' I was extremely outwardly effeminate this year and was once again wholly accepted by the girls. I was relentlessly bullied by a small group of boys for my behaviour, however: by now people knew what homosexuality was and these boys would gladly jeer that I was a 'poof' or a '(BAN ME PLEASE)'. This eventually got to me, after I tried so hard to ignore it, and after a flood of tears, they were punished and didn't go near me for the rest of the year.

Alas, this was the end of my co-educational primary school days. I was now going to be going to an all-boys Anglican school! What fun!

Having heard some whispers about my new school and the attitudes of the students there, I resigned myself to attempting to masquerade as cisgender: I was cut off from the girls I could once proudly call my comrades and was now being thrust into a pool of males I didn't know a skerrick about. Unfortunately, I was eaten alive by dysphoria very quickly and by April 2011 I had had enough. I made a desperate ploy to come out to my parents by shoving a note that explained my 'issues' under my bed, but it was intercepted by my father and I was rebuked once again. My father was a lot cooler and calmer this time, attempting to reason with me as if I was just expressing a dumb opinion. Due to being in a 1-on-1 situation with my father, who can get very intimidating, I resigned myself to shutting myself down, and I forced myself to continue acting as cisgender for the remainder of the year, even on the Internet; I was so frightened that I would be persecuted for my 'difference' that I identified as male on the web, which was quite difficult for me to do.

By the end of that year, I had worked out that, for a myriad of reasons, there was no way I could continue at that school: I was being savagely bullied and I hadn't made friends in the year I had been there. I left at the end of the year and was placed in a Catholic school... which was also single-sex.

This time, I decided that it would be important for my emotional and mental welfare to put on as convincing a cisgender impression as I could, so I repressed all and any feminine traits that may have been bubbling to the surface. It was extremely hard work, and I slipped sometimes (raising eyebrows), but something different was happening: I was making acquaintances. I could not control the uncontrollable, however. In September 2012, I was feeling extremely depressed, angry and borderline-suicidal when I came across a story in a magazine that was related to transgender issues. I read it. I read it again. I read it a third time.

It clicked that attempting to repress ALL feelings that were remotely effeminate, even my internally feminine feelings, was not going to do me any good. It would just do me harm. I lowered my guard a bit and began letting my internally feminine feelings flood back in while still repressing my external feminine feelings. This was slightly less taxing, but still extremely stressful. It was also around this time that I confessed to a handful of Smogonites that I was transgender, but I wasn't out of the closet yet. By and large, I continued to identify as male, which was an utter pain and something I never should have done.

This charade continued until late January 2013, where one of the most supportive people to enter my life so far came out of the shadows and, once I had mustered up the courage to tell her everything, immediately helped me with a huge milestone: transitioning over the Internet. Over the next few weeks, I had my Pokemon Showdown! voiced account changed, I had my Smogon name changed, I began using Aurora on IRC once and for all and I was finally able to be fully open about myself... somewhere.

Smogon may not be real life, but it's full of people that are so much nicer and just... better than anybody I'd be liable to meet in the outside world.

In May 2013, I decided I was ready to come out to my parents, so I penned a 600 word note and left it under my bedsheets. My mother picked it up this time. You'd think the reaction would be a little bit better than that of my father's (which is what I was hoping for), but my mother was so reluctant and forthright with me about how 'severe the consequences of such a change would be [to you and me and your family]' that I burst into tears - I wasn't even able to get my opinion through because the barrage from my mother was so overwhelming and overpowering. It was horrible, but I did not give up on myself. I knew that I would eventually succeed in making myself heard.

This brings me to now. I've been feeling more dysphoric than ever in the past couple of months, and I've been having suicidal thoughts as of late because it seems as if puberty is deciding to catch up with me at the worst possible time (although nothing substantial has happened yet, I'm seeing the warning signs of bad, bad things). Yesterday, all the students in my grade received a Personal Reflection sheet, where we had to list three issues we were experiencing in our lives. Upon finishing, the sheets would go to the teacher who administrates issues within our grade. I decided that this would be my time to come out (and my only feasible opportunity for a while), so I wrote as MY three issues:

1. I'm gender dysphoric
2. I hate being stuck in this shell (I know that's cliche)
3. See above
That's going to be read by that teacher at some point. I'm confident this ploy to come out will succeed, because I'm quite sure that the school counsellor will be consulted before any word goes to my parents, so I can tell the school counsellor about my issues first and she can act as an intermediary between my parents and myself, who I will still undoubtedly have issues with talking about this.

Let's just see how I go in the long run.
 
Thank you for sharing Aurora, your situation is admittedly much worse than mine, I wish you the best in your future endeavors. I see many parallels to myself there, particularly being that internet being an outlet for me to be who I really am, in part a reason for my name change here was me coming to terms with myself.

I hope this doesn't come off as callous, but its good that you are coming to terms with this at a much younger age than I am, you just getting into puberty while I am in college, having to keep a secrete for so long sucks, as well as your body's hormones making you become something you really aren't inside. If you want help, its good that you are coming to terms at this stage in your life.

I don't feel though that my social awkwardness has anything to do with this at all, as I said in the friends thread, I don't really have any, its just not my personality. I have rarely felt much pressure to fit in really, I kind of have this philosophy that I am my own person, I will do whatever the heck I personally want. When I was younger I did try to play with girls, as I simply could not fit in with boys, but as time went on they pushed me out, leaving me alone. However, that was literally over a decade ago, and since then my personality has developed to being a loner, and I kind of don't seek to change that, at all.

For people that haven't been following me, I am not particularly a feminine person in appearance, being obese, hairy, and smelly. So I guess I am a really ugly woman lol, not that I care about that at all. :p I have a feeling though that my obesity stems from me not feeling confident with myself, and simply just not caring about my physical body.
 
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I've always been fairly open about my bisexuality, ever since I realised it myself when I was 13.
I didn't hesitate to come out to my mom, who I had always been really close to and I knew I could talk to her about anything..
I'm not sure if it was exactly what she wanted to hear, but she was supportive nonetheless.. I think deep down she might've wished I was 'normal', but she still supported me through everything and accepted it as a part of me.
Soon, I told the rest of my closest family, my brother was really cool with it, even though he teased me about it, which he still does now. I know he didn't really look at me any differently than he did before. My sister was more intrigued than anything, and ( for whatever reason ) even asked me if I thought she was hot at one point when we were alone >.< .
My dad, well, I didn't talk about it to him, and he didn't talk about it to me.. There wasn't a lot of talking between us at all, since then.. But that's just something I've learned to accept.

I was a bit of an attentionwhore as a teen, so it didn't take long before the whole school knew, though half of them probably didn't think I was serious, all of my friends ( besides one, who I now realise I shouldn't have been friends with in the first place ) treated me the same way as they always did..

My sexual orientation naturally comes up in a lot of conversations I have with new friends ( maybe it's because I'm still just a little bit of an attentionwhore, or more likely because I just like to talk about anything and everything ), so most people I'm even relatively close with now, especially now I, and the people I surround myself with, have matured, it really isn't that big of a deal anymore.

Reading stories like Aurora's, about her struggles as a transgender, and even the struggles of other gays really move me, and it makes me realise just how lucky I was.

I know parents mostly only have difficulties accepting that their child is different because they know how society is, and they know their child will have more struggles than other people due to identifying themselves as something that isn't the norm, but that's exactly why your child doesn't need you to judge them as well, they need your full support.

As for children, I don't have to worry about that because I'm not in a same-sex relationship right now, and I'm fairly sure my current relationship will last a lifetime. If I did want another kid and I was in a same-sex relationship, I'd probably adopt, provided my partner doesn't mind it.. We should do all we can to provide those kids a proper home.
I think having same-sex parents might be a good thing, as parents who know what it like to be different would be the best for teaching a child not to judge someone for such minor things.
 
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I'm a straight guy who identifies as a male, but I go to a school in the south, which shares a campus with another school, where there's a surprising amount of people who have identified as transgendered between both schools. They are some really nice people, and I've gotten to know a few of them personally and had some explain their circumstances to me.

And I hate to admit it, but I was pretty close-minded at first. I just thought that a lot of them were just trying to become attention whores. But I got past that, and I've been able to make some pretty special bonds with people I didn't think I could ever become friends with.

And then this year happened. Holy fuck, this year.

Backstory: A fairly popular girl last year came out as lesbian, and everyone rushed to console her and be her friend to show they weren't close-minded. Most of us like to think we're above the other southerners who are bigoted and discriminatory against the LGBTQ community. (there's also a less popular girl who is a pansexual who identifies as neither gender, but no one really seemed to care)

So, this year. This fucking year. A bunch of the "popular" girls at my school have decided to come out as lesbian. And most of them, you can obviously tell they're not. Like, in the sense that they still slut around the school with guys, or have literally fucked almost everyone. It really pisses me off, actually, because I'm sure the original "popular" girl, who is most definitely a lesbian, probably feels pretty terrible that her coming out has inspired what seems to be similar to a fashion trend. And when the trend passes, I'm sure she will feel all alone again, which makes me pretty sad.

Have any of you had similar problems at your schools?
 

PK Gaming

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@Aurora

Coming out to your parents must have taken a tremendous amount of courage, and it's unfortunate to hear that your parents reacted in such a negative way. My advice would be to rely on someone or a group of friends; people who you could confide in and share all of your emotional troubles with. Maybe even treat them like a second family.

I wish I could offer you some meaningful advice to help you cope with what you're going through. Nobody at your age should be forced to go through what you've gone through.
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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@Aurora

It must take so much courage for someone so young to be so open about who they are, even in the face of opposition. I am going to quote my favorite scene from the movie V for Vendetta because I believe it is relevant (not just to you, but everyone). "It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must NEVER let them take it from us. I hope that whoever you are, you escape this place. I hope that the worlds turns, and that things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you." Stay strong, stay safe, but never let them tear you down, because they can never take away who you are. Best of luck with your future, PM me if you ever just need to talk, or vent, or whatever :).
 
Backstory: A fairly popular girl last year came out as lesbian, and everyone rushed to console her and be her friend to show they weren't close-minded. Most of us like to think we're above the other southerners who are bigoted and discriminatory against the LGBTQ community. (there's also a less popular girl who is a pansexual who identifies as neither gender, but no one really seemed to care)

So, this year. This fucking year. A bunch of the "popular" girls at my school have decided to come out as lesbian. And most of them, you can obviously tell they're not. Like, in the sense that they still slut around the school with guys, or have literally fucked almost everyone. It really pisses me off, actually, because I'm sure the original "popular" girl, who is most definitely a lesbian, probably feels pretty terrible that her coming out has inspired what seems to be similar to a fashion trend. And when the trend passes, I'm sure she will feel all alone again, which makes me pretty sad.

Have any of you had similar problems at your schools?
It is quite common for girls to claim they're bisexual or lesbian to seek attention ( not so common among guys because for whatever reason it's typically more negatively received ), but there's still always a chance that some of these girls are serious, maybe they're not actually lesbian, but highschool is a confusing time and someone else coming out as a lesbian might make them think of the possibility of them being lesbian too..
You're still a little unsure about everything and before you know it, you actually think you're a lesbian.. There's also the possibility that the girl coming out had such a positive reaction made it so that other gay girls were more confident about coming out..
I'm just trying to say it's most likely not just a fashion trend for a good few of those girls, there is no "obviously not a lesbian", especially not in highschool..
Everyone tries to fit in, and be normal, flirting with guys and "having literally fucked almost everyone" could be a way of overcompensating for the fact that deep down they're not that girl, and they have feelings for girls rather than guys but aren't confident enough in themselves to show it right now.
 
haha, implying coming out as a queer female isn't negatively received, not just by straight girls either.

inb4 'exception to the rule' or 'as a generality' or whatever, but my friend's gf was bullied out of our co-ed public high school and then tormented at the all-girls school her parents sent her to next. I'm sure that attention really helped her sleep at night. I really hate these ideas that girls do nothing but seek attention. see: bi/pan chick stereotypes, 'you can't be a dyke because you've dated/fucked dudes', etc. Any straight person who insincerely attempted to appropriate this experience, as the stereotype goes, would be likelier to regret it.

People experiment, people's identities change, people's feelings evolve and fluctuate over time. People get curious. It's pretty normal for ppl in hs/college to be in flux wrt who they are.
 
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haha, implying coming out as a queer female isn't negatively received, not just by straight girls either.

inb4 'exception to the rule' or 'as a generality' or whatever, but my friend's gf was bullied out of our co-ed public high school and then tormented at the all-girls school her parents sent her to next. I'm sure that attention really helped her sleep at night. I really hate these ideas that girls do nothing but seek attention. see: bi/pan chick stereotypes, 'you can't be a dyke because you've dated/fucked dudes', etc. Any straight person who insincerely attempted to appropriate this experience, as the stereotype goes, would be likelier to regret it.

People experiment, people's identities change, people's feelings evolve and fluctuate over time. People get curious. It's pretty normal for ppl in hs/college to be in flux wrt who they are.
I didn't mean to imply it wasn't negatively received.. But from my experience it's LESS negatively received..
This might not apply where you live, but from what I've seen openly gay girls are less likely to get shit about it than openly gay boys.
I already stated that it's normal for people in hs to be in flux of what they are, and I said a good part of it was probably actual lesbians or girls who were genuinely unsure about their sexuality but you can't deny that there are a good amount of girls who would say that shit for attention.. I've had girls openly say that to me in confidence. There's boys who do this too, but it isn't as common because it's generally more negatively received ( from what I've seen ).

While I did say he might be partially right about it, I'm fairly sure I implied that he shouldn't assume and that flirting/having sex with guys isn't a good argument.

A lot of teens, regardless of gender, seek attention a lot ( I know I did, atleast ), it's a fairly normal thing so I don't really see how you could disagree with me on that.

I'm sorry if you took offense in my post but it's just my personal view of myself and my surroundings.. I had no intents to imply anything I said was always the case, as I realise this is a rather complex topic, but this is how my own personal experiences made me see it.

I guess as a girl who isn't straight that has never been bullied, I have a fairly biased view, so I'm sorry for that.
 

Royal Flush

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Well I don't think I fit the topic, but I feel like sharing.

Can't really remember when, but at some point of my life I started to have a grudge against the male stereotype. You know, muscles, beard, mustache and hair in general etc. And it was a real big grudge, like, saying it's gross, icky and stuff (granted, I still dislike it nowadays, but in a lesser extent).


I'm not exactly naturally androgynous (well maybe a bit, every asian is), but I probably don't have many male traits and people often mistook me for a girl at long range. To be honest I found it funny when I go out with my girlfriend and some attendant call us by "girls" thinking we are a lesbian couple, then realizing I'm a boy and making an awkward expression.

The thing is: I don't like dicks. Or with a little bit of eloquence, I don't have any kind of attraction to men (figures, I dislike the shape of their body), so it's a funny situation where I'd be a transgender girl that only bangs girls (I wouldn't remove my penis I suppose). At the same time, I don't really wanna change my gender or anything, mainly because being a man is way easier and also it's easier to have girls lol. Of course I'm not popular with the standard women preference (some even look me with that "eww what a weirdo" written on their faces), but I tend to attract a lot of gay men and bi girls/girls with bi tendencies - mostly the former - so yeah, it's either extreme despise or infatuation.

That said, I don't dress like a girl and don't try to act like one. I do have long hair with girly haircut, my body is as frail as a woman and I never use beard/mustache though (too lazy to shave legs). As for the acting, my biggest concern is with the body so I don't really care. Anyway, it's a weird situation where I wish I was born as a girl but at the same I'm happy enough for being a man (I'm pretty ok with my current body).
 
@Royal Flush
Transgender is just a blanket term to cover all those who don't quite identify as their biological sex; this could be dysphoria to the point where they feel the need to correct it through whatever means available, a person who asks to be treated as what they identify as while taking little effort to look the part, or a case like yours where they are content with their biological sex but would have preferred something else.
Every person has their own unique sexual orientation, romantic orientation, and gender identity (which are in no way dependent on each other) the names they have are just terms to help people realize and share what their own is.
 

Solace

royal flush
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It is quite common for girls to claim they're bisexual or lesbian to seek attention ( not so common among guys because for whatever reason it's typically more negatively received )
Just gonna comment on the "typically more negatively received for guys" bit, but I think it's generally the opposite. There's much less of a stigma to come out as a gay male (particularly if you're white), whereas females are generally called out as "attention seekers" or are forced to "legitimize their sexuality" (ie how can you know you're bi if you've never dated a girl??!!??!?!) to others in ways that males are generally not forced to. There's also much more representation in media for gay men, while queer women are given stereotypical (and generally oversexualized) roles that only reinforce closed minded ideas of what they should be.

I mean, I've heard from many people that teenage girls can't know if they're bi/gay because they're too young, or they're just experimenting. But teenage bi/gay boys "just know". Girls are told "they're too pretty to be a lesbian", which is just a gross thing to say for so many reasons. It's more a reflection on how society treats the self-determination of women, but if you think that women get off easier for some reason, that's simply just ignorant.

This probably makes no sense since I'm really tired but there's certainly a bigger stigma against queer women/poc than men.
 
Just gonna comment on the "typically more negatively received for guys" bit, but I think it's generally the opposite. There's much less of a stigma to come out as a gay male (particularly if you're white), whereas females are generally called out as "attention seekers" or are forced to "legitimize their sexuality" (ie how can you know you're bi if you've never dated a girl??!!??!?!) to others in ways that males are generally not forced to. There's also much more representation in media for gay men, while queer women are given stereotypical (and generally oversexualized) roles that only reinforce closed minded ideas of what they should be.

I mean, I've heard from many people that teenage girls can't know if they're bi/gay because they're too young, or they're just experimenting. But teenage bi/gay boys "just know". Girls are told "they're too pretty to be a lesbian", which is just a gross thing to say for so many reasons. It's more a reflection on how society treats the self-determination of women, but if you think that women get off easier for some reason, that's simply just ignorant.

This probably makes no sense since I'm really tired but there's certainly a bigger stigma against queer women/poc than men.
Both are stigmatized is different ways; as you said before our culture is rather misogynistic and associates masculinity with dominance and sex with women. Regardless of identity, women experience significantly more harassment than men because of this. In regards to women that don't like men, the mentality of 'corrective rape' is unfortunately far from unheard of but the (also offensive) mindset of Lesbians are Sexy is there too. While gay men typically face less harassment and more violence.
I'm not claiming that either is worse off, but that the ways Heterosexism manifests itself is often completely different depending on the target (and it's terrible either way).
 
Something I've never understood, and have yet made minimal effort to understand, is why people are transgendered. From my perspective, gender is something clear cut: you have chromosomes that explicitly determine which gender you are. I can understand people hanging out with people with different genders, trying to fit in with one group over another, or not following social customs. I don't understand why its important to be called one gender or another. I have no problems calling people by the pronouns they want or anything similar, but, why?

Note I've kept this short because I really don't understand the issue and don't want accidentally ask sexist questions.
 
billy, while I'm not trans, I'd imagine it's for the same reason many, if not most cis men and women would be insulted or annoyed to have someone constantly mistaking them for the wrong gender. Basically gender is an essential part of our everyday life, and I'd imagine over 95% of people will live their entire lives without finding out for SURE what their chromosomes are. Sure, I have no reason to assume I'm not XY, but to suggest that chromosomes make it clear cut seems silly at best considering most of us don't REALLY have that information, nor will the people on the street... yet gender is a constant part of our lives, from language to social presentation. Not to mention, you know, the whole intersex thing. Chromosomes run the range from XO, XX (which includes men), XXX, XXXX, XXXXX, XXY, XXXY, XXYY, XXXXY, XXXYY, XY, XYY, XYYY, XYYYY, XX/XY and probably more.

Personally, I think the best way to answer that question is to ask it to yourself. Why you identify as a dude or whatever instead of not caring whether everyone around you called you a woman or genderqueer or 2 spirited or "it"? Basically, just because your gender presentation comes off naturally to the people around you, doesn't mean you can ignore that you yourself are also playing the 'gender' game. It's just how people feel, and there's a sense of... I guess, wrongness, in being referred to or treated like the other gender. That's how I came to understand it, anyway. Maybe someone who's trans will give a better answer, heh.
 
http://skepchick.org/2011/12/bilate...-chickens-and-why-im-not-scientifically-male/

I really appreciate Natalie Reed (there's a lot of great stuff on her various blogs); you may find this interesting to consider. The (bad) tl;dr is that since chromosomes exist in considerably more combinations than XX and XY, and that, factoring in other characteristics like hormones, XY = male and XX = female is an oversimplification. Admittedly the biology of sex/gender is not an area I'm particularly educated in though, I should probably read more literature on it...

I'm just a cis person so I hope I'm not speaking over anyone here, but I thought I would link it since I love Natalie Reed. I don't really consider these sorts of factors to trump someone's identity of themselves anyway. I can't really answer for the rest since I don't know viscerally what it's like to be trans either. I feel really confident in my gender identity (and it's something I've actually thought about a lot in the past for various reasons); I'm pretty sure all of us identify in some way, some more strongly than others.
 
Billy you're getting biological sex confused with gender. In most cases Biological Sex is as just XX for female and XY for male, but exceptions exist. Gender is more of how a person identifies and perceives themselves, in the cases of transgender individuals this does not line up with their biological sex (note that there is more than just male or female as far as potential identities are concerned).
As for what causes a person to be transgender, we don't really know. Most theories are very similar to those trying to find what causes a person to not be heterosexual.
 
I'm not confusing anything. I was confused as to why the concept of gender even exists. Jumpluff's post clears it up a little, though I'm doubtful it applies in all cases. I'm interested on hearing other answers to see if they take the same approach. elcheeso's post is silly so I won't respond to it.
 
Just gonna comment on the "typically more negatively received for guys" bit, but I think it's generally the opposite. There's much less of a stigma to come out as a gay male (particularly if you're white), whereas females are generally called out as "attention seekers" or are forced to "legitimize their sexuality" (ie how can you know you're bi if you've never dated a girl??!!??!?!) to others in ways that males are generally not forced to. There's also much more representation in media for gay men, while queer women are given stereotypical (and generally oversexualized) roles that only reinforce closed minded ideas of what they should be.

I mean, I've heard from many people that teenage girls can't know if they're bi/gay because they're too young, or they're just experimenting. But teenage bi/gay boys "just know". Girls are told "they're too pretty to be a lesbian", which is just a gross thing to say for so many reasons. It's more a reflection on how society treats the self-determination of women, but if you think that women get off easier for some reason, that's simply just ignorant.

This probably makes no sense since I'm really tired but there's certainly a bigger stigma against queer women/poc than men.
I've heard from many people that teenage boys can't know if they're bi/gay because they're too young, or just experimenting, too. And I can't really comment on the "too pretty to be a lesbian" thing, as it's not something I've witnessed myself for either sex.
I do admit we often get accused of being an attention seeker, however from my point of view that's hardly such a terrible thing as I did know it for sure and that's all that really mattered to me. Both gay men and gay women are given stereotypical roles, but I'm fairly sure just about everyone knows they're bullshit by now anyway.
People are probably more likely to question the legitimacy of your claim of being gay if you're female, however from my pov gay men are more likely to be bullied ( both emotionally and physically ) over it.

That being said, I realise a lot of people see it differently and I suppose those things differ in different countries and different cultures.. I also realise this is a rather stupid argument seeing as both gay men and women are treated worse than they should be, every person who gets treaten worse based on their sexual preference is one too many.. But there's definitely not CERTAINLY a bigger stigma against queer women than men, which is pretty ridiculous for you to call me ignorant and then proceeding to make a claim like that.

As I said I'm biased because I've personally never felt like I was treated badly because I'm a bisexual, I've lost a friend over it but I realised I'm better off without her.. I've heard some ignorant claims, but that's normal and it happens for boys too, it's only an opportunity to talk to them about it and show them your own views and why their perception of things might be wrong. I've never actually been bullied personally and most of the gay/bi women I know haven't either, and I've seen far more gay boys get bullied, both physically and emotionally, than I have gay girls.. I realise a topic like this isn't very clear-cut, there's no way of proving either gender has it worse, so I can only make claims based on my personal experience, just like you. So just because it seems like women have a worse stigma to you, that doesn't make it an absolute truth.. Same goes for me.
 
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Ok I just came out to my mother, she is supportive about the whole thing but feels I should take this one step at a time and she is very hesitant about hormones. I think she is thinking I am just a transvestite, I agree though about taking this slow, I am not sure as to were I fit in, but I know its much more than me just wanting to wear woman's clothes. For now though I will take her support and run with it.

We plan on going shopping soon for clothes. ^_^
 
Ok I just came out to my mother, she is supportive about the whole thing but feels I should take this one step at a time and she is very hesitant about hormones. I think she is thinking I am just a transvestite, I agree though about taking this slow, I am not sure as to were I fit in, but I know its much more than me just wanting to wear woman's clothes. For now though I will take her support and run with it.

We plan on going shopping soon for clothes. ^_^
You have no idea how happy I am for you :)
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
arguing about which gender/sexuality faces the most stigma from coming out is so counter-productive, and it reifies gender and sexuality. there are no gender categories only representations there of. these representations are extremely important, as el cheeso discussed, still it is trivial (imo) how any individual chooses to represent themselves as they are really only appropriating society's concept of gender. Because of this, there are very few people who represent themselves as agender, as 'it' is a disavowed category (especially in a political sense) that is not conducive to participating in society.

Consider an individual with gender identity disorder (this pathology has become controversial in the last yearish, but it isn't important to the example), this individual is very fortunate because they happen to have health care provided from a fairly liberal institution: the University of California. That health care will pay for this individual to have reconstructive surgery and other procedures to help them inhabit a body that they identify with. The catch is that when they come back to work they still have to check one of 2 boxes: male or female. 'Other' is still a repressed category that hasn't entered into the conscious of this person's society.


this is an excellent read, it is tangentially related to the discussion of gender in this thread and the article is typically featured in introductory studies of gender. (never use the word feminism on the internet if you dont have to)

http://www.northeastern.edu/womenss...uments/Kessler_Med_Construction_of_Gender.pdf
 
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Ok I just came out to my mother, she is supportive about the whole thing but feels I should take this one step at a time and she is very hesitant about hormones. I think she is thinking I am just a transvestite, I agree though about taking this slow, I am not sure as to were I fit in, but I know its much more than me just wanting to wear woman's clothes. For now though I will take her support and run with it.

We plan on going shopping soon for clothes. ^_^
Aww, congratulations on coming out! Have fun shopping for clothes, I hope you can get some really nice ones. I hope that with time your mom will learn and come to understand who you are, and that you'll be able to get support from the rest of your loved ones in time. <3
 
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