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Liepard: More Painful than Hemorrhoids

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Dracoyoshi8, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
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    [​IMG]

    You are going to win. You have eliminated Musharna. You have taken out Arbok. All that is stopping you from outspeeding and OHKOing the opponent's team with your Choice Band Sawk is that Timid LO Charizard, but he's about to die from Stealth Rock. Your victory is assured. You kick back in your chair, take a sip from your ice-cold soda and smile as your opponent takes forever to move, undoubtedly trying to figure out how the hell he or she is going to stop the rampage of your blue-skinned black belt.

    Then... it appears.

    First you laugh. Why would your opponent switch in Liepard, a Dark-type with bulk near-equivalent to that of Farfetch'd into the most powerful Fighting-type in the tier? You shake your head. So what if it outspeeds, what's it going to do, Dark Pulse? You select Close Combat and wait to see that HP bar drop.

    Liepard uses Swagger. You frown as your Sawk hits itself in confusion. Alright, no big deal. So what, now Sawk is even stronger. It should be able to decimate Liepard even more. Then it uses Thunder Wave. Your Sawk is fully paralyzed. Your victory no longer is in sight. Suddenly sweat drips down your forehead. Your foot begins to tap with anxiety. You are close, this close, to beating your top score on the ladder. You go for the attack again.

    Liepard uses Substitute. Your Sawk Close Combat's itself in the nutsack again. It's HP plummets. You begin to drum your fingers across the desk. You nervously take a drink from your soda. Sawk is now almost dead, and Liepard is behind a Substitute. No big deal. It can't hurt me, right? You hesitantly go for the Close Combat.

    Liepard uses Foul Play. Sawk faints.

    Your jaw drops. You flounder. How could this happen? Your victory seemed assured. You spent the entire match, setting it up. You had stacked the odds in your favor for this moment. And it was stopped. By Liepard. You grit your teeth and switch to good ol' Skuntank. A Poison Jab should be able to finish this guy off, no problem.

    Then the cycle starts all over.

    [​IMG]
    -Swagger
    -Thunder Wave
    -Foul Play
    -Substitute
    Leftovers
    Prankster
    Timid Nature
    80 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD / 168 Spe

    Perhaps the most irritating Pokemon to face in any tier at this time. This set can turn a game around in a single turn, stop a sweep cold, and make turns of set up worth nothing. There is no Pokemon more rage-inducing, and at the same time, quite remarkable, as Liepard. Even the best players fall to it, and every NU player will lose to it at some point. There is something to be admired in that, and a lot to be hated in it also.

    How do you stop Liepard? What Pokemon or tactics do you use to get around it when its out there? Do you plan ahead when you see it in the team preview? Or do you wing it? And most importantly, does Liepard add to, subtract or have no effect on the competitive nature of the metagame?

    What do you think of Liepard?
  2. cbt

    cbt subtle body
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    Liepard is an annoyer Pokemon, that despite it being extremely frail, has access to Prankster, which makes it so annoying in the first place. However, it is reliant on luck, as a backfired plan can result in a physical sweeper steamrolling your team. Ground types, Pokemon with multi-hit moves, and Pokemon with Own Tempo (the most common of which is Lickilicky) are Pokemon that can give Liepard lots of trouble.
  3. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Very good build up to the actual set itself. That story is one we all face far too often.

    I actually have not used this Liepard set yet, but I should sometime. It is pretty reliant on hax, but that does not mean it's terrible if you don't get lucky. At the very least, you can spread priority Thunder Wave around. That means you can cripple fast Pokemon that may be bothersome to your team, and it may just win you the game.

    It's kind of unfortunate that a set centered around hax is the best set for this particular Pokemon. Nasty Plot Liepard is pitifully weak even after a boost, while the weather supporter set is not particularly effective and there are better weather setters in the tier.
  4. FLCL

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    i took down zeb's gurdurr and skuntank today with this set

    when fighting it, i like to switch in ground-types such as golem and piloswine into thunder wave and then beat it down with icicle spear or rock blast in case it tries to spam sub and fish for confusion self-hit. i usually have two or three chances to land some hits in before i die to foul play and self-hit damage. this is probably one of the better hax abuse sets and can actually do serious damage without setting up against physical attackers thanks to stab foul play.
  5. Punchshroom

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    As a user of Liepard, I can say that Thunder Wave makes the set even more hax-reliant than it already is, while Encore means the Liepard user has to have good prediction as well. Thunder Wave can support teammates like Gardevoir, Braviary, and Golurk who likes fighting slowed down opponents; Encore can buy free turns and force switches, which Swagger already does like crazy: excellent with hazard support. Personally, I prefer Encore as it allows Liepard to perform a one-"cat" stand and breaks down all kinds of stall. Ironically, Liepards are not on good terms with each other.

    Also, prior to my use of Liepard, I've never lost to Liepard, perhaps because of good luck on my part or bad play on theirs. I will concede though that it is extremely annoying to face.
  6. Meleeace1478

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    Whenever I face it, it makes me almost put Own Tempo on my Ludicolo over Rain Dish.

    Also, Liepard is a pretty good weather supporter. Not being weak to Stealth Rock is really nice.
  7. skylight

    skylight winner of smogon's most sizzlin' grill 2014
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    I die almost all of the times I face Liepard. Unless I have a Gurdurr in my team (in which usually Mach Punch hits w/o Thunder Wave paralysing it cause LUCK) I tend to just... play the match as it goes. But ya most of the time I lose to it due to SO MUCH HAX and I usually don't run Own Tempo users, nor lucky multi-hit users. ;( What's worse is when the opponents get cocky over winning with Liepard when it haxes a LOT and it's like "yeah you're lucky, so what??" idm it though given that it doesn't appear in every team and is beatable sometimes but still it's extremely annoying and people shouldn't be so reliant on hax when there's other teams that can win easier without any hax at all (not that I'm opposed to people using it but still, the ones who rely on it, rather).
  8. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
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    When facing it I usually get on my knees and use that time to consult Scriptures. Seriously though, this set has halted my momentum in a ladder match more than once, and since it's so hax based I've found it sorta tough to approach most of the time, so I really don't have much of a strategy outside of luck and winging it as well. Usually most people I'd face would lead with it so I would just send in my Fighting-Type and hope that I can hit past Swagger/T-Wave for the OHKO. Once it gets up a Sub though I'm usually in trouble. As for the question posed, I don't think it has any effect on competitive pokemon, as it generally sees no play in higher level play. Most people won't risk a more competitive match on luck, and I haven't seen too many weather sets, with most people forgoing it for things like Volbeat. The NP set is just underwhelming in general, and I've had alot more trouble with the Foul Play set behind a Sub than a +2 Liepard behind a Sub. In general, I don't think much of it though. It's something I'd use just so I could say I won with it a few times in a funny battle or so, but not something I'd see myself seriously considering for a team.
  9. IceSpade

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    That intro describes all of my games against Liepard. :S Everytime I see it I always wish that I used my Own Tempo Lickilicky instead of some other 'mon.

    Anyway since I was first swept by Liepard I had always made my special attackers' Attack IVs to 0 to minimize the confusion damage, and I always made sure that I always carried an Electric immune Pokemon such as Zebstrika or Piloswine.

    I've also used it in one of my teams, and a lot of times it swept with Swagger and Foul Play, sometimes it spreads paralysis like crazy which allows my slower sweepers to sweep, and a lot of times it causes ragequits and enemy losses.
  10. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    my hatred for this set isn't a secret. Ever since it was discovered, Liepard has become the most frightening Pokemon in the metagame. Not the best by any means, but it can turn any game into a series of coinflips that neither user can really control. I end up getting swept by this set quite a bit, i can just never beat it. It has the potential to get past should be hard counters like Gurdurr, trust me.


    The set is truly rage inducing. Personally id use T wave > Encore 100% of the time because its just better. Encore offers more support for the rest of the team but doesn't help with the sets goal nearly as much. Its sad that Liepard is now a major threat that has to be prepared for, Own Tempo Lickilicky time!
  11. Aasgier

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    Liepard is very annoying to face, but it can't really deal with a Magic Coat Leavanny. I actually already made Liepard users ragequit with it, which is hilarious in its own right. So whenever I see Liepard in the team preview, I will preserve Leavanny and hope it doesn't have a sub up when Leavanny is brought in.
    Magic Coat Leavanny is further helped by the fact that the Swords Dance sets are more common, resulting in people not expecting it.
  12. Punchshroom

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    I can attest to Magic Coat screwing up Liepard. Bastiodon is pretty much the only other viable user of Magic Coat in NU that isn't hindered by severe 4-moveslot syndrome, like Probopass. Bastiodon can't exactly defeat Leavanny on its own, but it can Roar it away, while Liepard has zero chance of getting past Bastiodon's Magic Coat; Leavanny risks getting KOed by its own above average Attack stat if it gets its health too low (Stealth Rock weakness doesn't help). If you really want to make Liepard's life hell (understandably because it's done the same to you), Bastiodon even knows Taunt.
    Edit: I forgot Bastiodon also knows Rock Blast. Yeah, Bastiodon is bar none the best way to deal with Liepard one-on-one.

    On a more practical note, Liepards are terribly weak to Taunt and Toxic Spikes.
  13. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Liepard can use Substitute before she gets Taunted. As for Toxic Spikes, grounded Poison-types absorb them and they're good team mates for Liepard, as poison and dark cover all each other's weaknesses other than Ground.
    In other words, neither of them is a big threat to her.
  14. Django

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    Taunt goes through Substitute.

    While I completely agree that this set is uncompetitive and pretty dumb, I can't really see it being suspected / banned. The very notion of competiveness is subjective anyway, and it must be remembered that the player using Liepard is using up a teamslot for what is, by and large, an inferior Pokemon. Additionally, the luck involved with using Swagger Liepard goes both ways; Swagger can miss, and one turn where confusion doesn't work can mean the end of Liepard. I really hate how much it can turn certain games into coinflips, but the fact Liepard is in general a bad Pokemon means it's not on the verge of broken, at least for me.
  15. ium

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    people generally say that liepard is just for people who want to luck the shit out of others and get out of situations that they wouldn't have had a chance to win over normally. yeah, that is quite true to some extent. liepard can be placed in the hands of any player of any skill level and can garner a few wins without much effort at all just because it luckfucked the opponent.

    however, thinking about it, liepard in the hands of skilled players is really interesting and just makes it much worse to face. a team properly built around it can be devastating, because liepard can do more than just weaken pokemon off of coinflips. it spreads paralysis quite easily for the rest of the team and acts as a last-ditch effort against a fast threat that has gotten out of hand. the threat of a priority thunder wave also means that the opponent will be switching around; pairing liepard with spikes support would be neat too.

    regardless, liepard is more of a liability in my opinion. i like to use pokemon that are consistent in their role throughout a match. liepard can't really do anything consistent aside from spreading priority thunder wave or encore, but even that is not always easy to do since liepard is too frail. at least volbeat and murkrow can provide a little more bulk with healing options (and anyway, these two aren't really good outside of a few niches too). everything else liepard can accomplish is just by chance and could even backfire on the liepard user.

    in terms of dealing with liepard, i do the same thing as flcl. golem and piloswine, being bulky ground-types with multi-hit moves, reduce the chances of getting shit on by avoiding thunder wave and bypassing substitutes. there's no true way (as in a way to avoid priority swagger) to deal with liepard aside from lickilicky, but having bulkier pokemon and/or ground-types are the best bet.
  16. Punchshroom

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    Being the only Dark-type in NU to outspeed Haunter, I believe Liepard still has some sort of niche (if you want to to Pursuit trap Haunter you could, not that it'd be good for anything else, I'm just saying). Pokemon with disproportionately low attack and high defense can also stand up to Liepard. I'm talking stuff like Alomomola, Regirock, Tangela, the aforementioned Bastiodon and the like.
    Liepards either run Thunder Wave or Encore as their method of buying free turns. Thunder Wave grants a free turn 25% of the time against all non-Electric immune opponents; Encore buys a 100% free turn against opponents who did not attack. Ground types are usually your best bet against T-wave Liepard (Lightningrod and Motor Drive pokemon have too little defense and Volt Absorbers are non-existant), however the Ground types themselves have manageable attack stats (for Liepard). Against Encore Liepard, you must be careful when attempting to boost, heal or sub, even against his teammates, as Liepard can grab the chance to force you out and get the free sub to start trolling your team.
    The biggest problem isn't just not fulfilling the anti-Liepard criteria, but finding out too late the move Liepard is running.

    Also, Liepard is far from a liability. My stall/semi-stall team has benefited greatly as his mere presence causes offensive sweepers and boosters alike to tread excessively carefully.
  17. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

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    I've used bastiodon in one of my last teams and while it's not the best way to defeat it, liepard just never kills it.

    The only thing bastiodon could do to it was toxic it which didn't work as soon as he set up a sub and forced me to roar him out. The thing about bastiodon however is he takes absolutely no fucking shit from hurting himself in confusion nore does he from foul play even at +4. When liepard was just way too haxy and I couldn't manage to roar him out I would just switch to musharna. I tried to pull off a heal bell and switched back to bastiodon. I could go like this for a countless amount of turns and in the end it didn't matter because liepard was just wasting it's pp on stuff that took absolutely no damage from confusion or foul play and recovered enough with lefties.

    While this technique may seem pretty boring, I see it as a douchebag way of fighting a douchebag set. This strategy would not work with full hazards on but otherwise you can just have fun switching between 2 walls to waste it's pp while you have a backup cleric.

    (both bastiodon and musharna should run 0 att IVs)
  18. Tyrano

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    Prankster in general are a pain in the ass, copycat riolu and this set (which even appears in Random Battle), but I don't really see it being suspected. Liepards relies in hax to work, without it, it's a very weak poke that only have t-wave with priority. I don't pretend to say it's powerless, it can turn a win into a very frustrating lose, but my opinion is that good players shouldn't have to rely on hax to win.
  19. Constantinipple

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    i completely agree with this. some people think its fun to troll some people on the ladder but i think you shoudnt use it to ladder yourself. as stated above it is completely relying on hax which isnt a good thing in my opinion.
  20. Aasgier

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    @Punchshroom: Sneasel exists. Not that it is used, but it is faster than Haunter as well.
  21. Punchshroom

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    Right, forgot about that guy. Liepard can actually invest in some bulk though as he doesn't rely on his own attack stats. Sneasel can't switch in any non-resisted attack and even some resisted ones bar Seismic Toss without taking over 50%, and can't take a neutral STAB attack to save his life (When Alomo's Waterfall 2HKOs you, you know you're frail as all hell).
  22. Ghosttripsixxx

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    I am guilty of extensive Liepard trolling, even against the author of this post. Using Liepard extensively since around Xmas till now hasn't resulted in that great of a winning percentage, but overall I think Cali the Liepard is a solid option, and even while not winning, can give you the satisfaction of knowing purists everywhere are outraged they got luckfucked out of a for sure win.

    At some point even after 5 matches of 2X Sawk or Pinsir fatality finishing sweeps of your whole team, you will score that nasty parafusion foul play destruction of some team you had no business doing such to.

    And for those of you that really hate Liepard, as pointed out earlier, you could always start using SD own tempo Licki's more. Liepard players may suffer from PTSD after that match up, thus resulting in less of the "annoying."
  23. Eos

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    WOW, is all I have to say to Liepard. Whatta hoe imo.

    I just lost to one actually, ironically right after reading this thread. Now here I am, coming back in this thread because of how much of a douchebag Liepard is. I seriously had the game in the bag, much like Draco's OP, and Liepard comes in. After Stealth Rock and Spikes that I have up, it has 8% HP left. I think, okay, I have Golem at full HP, so this should be no problem really. That assumption was DEAD WRONG. Not only did Liepard successfully stop Golem in his tracks, but completely demolished him.

    At this point I have four (yes, FOUR) mons left. To be honest, at this point I'm already like: Fuck this slut of a Pokemon. I already know that my downfall is eminent. However, I try to keep my hopes up. Sadly, through the next few turns, my remaining team all crumbles in the battle of the great doucher. From the dust and dirt of the great battle (tbh it wasn't a great battle at all, unless you call me yelling at my computer screen a great battle), Liepard emerges strong with more than half of its health in tact. My last words to my opponent (who previously had a record of 0-4 in NU on that account), were: fuck this shit. Somewhat rude, and I'm sad to say I got so worked up over a silly ladder match, but my god, Liepard is evil :(

    So yeah, I obviously am not a fan of this devilish Dark-type that has emerged from the shadows as of late. It should be interesting to see how things plan out with Liepard and the rest of the metagame in the next few weeks. Will Liepard remain a top annoyer? Will something come up to push him back into his rightful place? Will Lickilicky see a skyrocket of usage in order to counterbalance this pest? We shall find out~

    Edit: I switched into Golem originally since I thought he'd have a fighting chance with him. However, a lot of people are using Swagger as their first move, and then T-Wave after that, if possible. Ofc sub is annoying if they can get it up, but even after that one Swagger, hax is just a bitch and I was annihilated by the demon spawn that is Liepard.

    Oh, and here's my replay if anyone wants to check it out/has some extra time on their hands (why torture yourself though):
    Show Hide
  24. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    The (only) problem of using Own Tempo Lickilicky against Liepard is that it is still suceptible to Foul Play, and rightly so as Lickilicky doesn't run 0 Atk IVs. Bastiodon has no such problem however, and can cleave through Liepard with +4/+6 Rock Blast the moment it gets to do so, even with 0 Atk IVs. The obvious downside of Bastiodon is that it has much less utility, but handles Liepard tenfold better than Lickilicky does.
  25. Axa

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    I actually run Encore over Swagger, because 1. I don't like being reliant on coin flips and 2. Encore turns Liepard into basically an amazing Musharna counter (provided you avoid Signal Beam), and decent at forcing out things like Gardevoir. Even Skuntank can be shut down or forced out if you can lock it into Sucker Punch and then T-Wave the switch. Foul Play tends to hit hard enough as it is.

    I run Foul Play/T-Wave/Encore/Snarl. Since I don't run confusion, I have less use for Sub, and Snarl provides a way to weaken special attackers when Foul Play won't be enough. Not amazingly strong, but the paralysis support has been invaluable sometimes.

    I'm looking forward to Liepard more now that Cincinno is gone.

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