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Liepard (Taken Over) [QC: 3/3] (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Punchshroom, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    [​IMG]
    Feline Rage
    [Overview]

    <p>Liepard is infamous for its disruption capabilities, which it achieves through being the fastest Prankster user in NU, good Speed, and an extensive support movepool. The most notable of these moves would be Encore and Swagger, which it can stun opponents with; Encore can lock its targets into unfavorable moves and provide easy setup, while Swagger can luck an opponent out of the game. While its attacking stats are not too impressive, it can still boast surprising offensive presence due to its tricky attacks. Unfortunately, it is one of the frailest Pokemon in existence, meaning it dies to even the lightest of breezes, which brings its fair share of risks when trying to use its disruption tools, but Prankster coupled with its movepool does go a long way in helping it to avoid direct hits.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Pivot
    move 1: Encore
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Pursuit / Night Slash
    item: Dread Plate
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This Liepard serves as both a momentum grabber and a revenge killer. It is fairly consistent at its role, and has priority that packs decent enough power to pick off weakened foes, though it struggles to KO healthier targets. While it seems risky for such a frail Pokemon to adopt a prediction-heavy task, Liepard has all the moves it needs to minimize this risk. For a trapper, Skuntank is usually used in this role, but Liepard's advantages are better Speed, U-turn for grabbing momentum, and Encore for stopping setup sweepers and Substitute users, while Skuntank has to rely on prediction and usually isn't fast enough to use Taunt on them to ease said prediction. Sucker Punch revenge kills weakened targets and is Liepard's strongest unboosted attack, but it fails if the opponent switches or doesn't attack. Pursuit can hunt down those that flee and take them out anyway. Should the opponent stick around to either set up or heal, Prankster Encore locks the opponent into the non-damaging move they used on a previous turn regardless of any Speed they may have attained, turning the opponent into a sitting duck. What this means is that Liepard can thwart almost any attempt to bypass Sucker Punch by itself. From there, U-turn and Pursuit gives Liepard's team the advantage against the switches the opponent will be making to escape Encore or Sucker Punch. U-turn also allows Liepard to escape its counters while landing chip damage. Night Slash provides more reliable STAB, but Pursuit is preferred as it punishes Pokemon attempting a switch, especially after they have been Encored, while Sucker Punch is stronger and its risks have been reduced thanks to Liepard's other moves.</p>​

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Dread Plate is used for maximum power on Sucker Punch without recoil from Life Orb, at the cost of a negligible loss in U-turn's power. Dark Gem could be used but Liepard loses a noticeable amount of power after it is consumed. Due to the switches Encore, Sucker Punch, and U-turn force, Liepard appreciates hazard support as it can wear down walls that stop Liepard, making Pokemon such as Garbodor and Golem good partners. Liepard also has good synergy with Poison-types such as Garbodor and Roselia, as well as Ghost-types such as Haunter and Golurk to cover its weaknesses. Encore and U-turn makes Liepard a great partner for setup sweepers such as Carracosta, Samurott, and Braviary, or frail attackers such as Swellow, Drifblim, Zangoose, and Haunter, all if whom like free switch-ins. Walls such as Alomomola and Regice are good counters because Liepard doesn't have the sheer power to break them, thus wallbreakers such as Eelektross and Samurott are recommended.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSwagger
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Swagger
    move 3: Encore / Thunder Wave
    move 4: Foul Play
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Timid
    evs: 80 HP / 140 Def / 120 SpD / 168 Spe
    ivs: 0 Atk

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The set most players are grudgingly familiar with, this Liepard aims to cripple as much as possible with its Prankster status moves and STAB Foul Play. Substitute blocks status moves, Trick, and direct hits, as well as providing a safety buffer against faster Pokemon and can be used to stall or scout. Swagger powers up Foul Play while potentially immobilizing foes and is potent against Fighting-types, but is risky as Liepard can get OHKOed by a gentle touch backed by +2 Attack. Encore, if timed right, locks opponents into unfavorable moves, mainly non-damaging attacks, to grant free switches or setup opportunities for itself, as well as tripping up most utility Pokemon that rely on said moves. Thus, Liepard's presence alone can be enough to deter the use of support moves, but requires good prediction lest Liepard be damaged beyond repair. Thunder Wave combined with Prankster is nice for crippling fast threats and performs the classic parafusion combo with Swagger. Swagger and Thunder Wave can drive offensive teams insane, but is still considerably risky for Liepard as well as being less effective against defensive Pokemon that shrug it off, especially if they have reliable recovery. STAB Foul Play is good against a wide range of Pokemon; it hits powerful physical sweepers hard, and hits Ghost- and Psychic-types hard even with their low Attack stats.</p>​

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are tailor-made to allow Liepard to function at its best. 80 HP EVs allow for five Substitutes after factoring in Leftovers, allowing Liepard to stall even more. 120 Special Defense EVs are sufficient in allowing its Substitute to survive Misdreavus's Shadow Ball and Alomomola's Scald. Maximum Special Defense is an option as physical bulk does not matter too much to Liepard against +2 opponents, courtesy of Swagger, but there are far and few attacks between that won't KO either the Substitute or Liepard itself with more special bulk. 168 Speed EVs allow it to outspeed Haunter and Sawsbuck, but max Speed can be used to get the drop on anything between the 95-105 base Speed range. Any remaining EVs are thrown into Defense, which makes Liepard more resilient to priority and multi-hit moves.</p>

    <p>Poison-types make for great partners for Liepard: they resist its weaknesses, lure Psychic attacks for Liepard to switch into, and grounded Poison-types such as Garbodor, Vileplume, and Roselia have the added benefit of absorbing Toxic Spikes, which would otherwise ruin Liepard. Ghost-types such as Haunter and Drifblim and Flying-types such as Braviary and Charizard are also handy to handle its weaknesses. Other potential partners include Gurdurr, Sawk, Golurk, or Samurott to break down Steels while taking advantage of Liepard slowing down sweepers for them. Setup sweepers, preferably those with notable immunities such as Misdreavus, or resistances such as Carracosta, Serperior, Klang, are recommended to take advantage of the attacks that Liepard Encores. Specially defensive Pokemon, examples including Mantine, Regice, Lickilicky, Audino, and Gardevoir, make for good partners to take on the special attackers that shrug off Foul Play.</p>​

    [Other Options]

    <p>Nasty Plot can do serious damage to most physical walls that intend to wall Liepard, but Liepard's power is pretty modest before a boost and can be lacking even after a boost, and it is hard to find the turns it needs to set up while protecting itself from revenge kills. Taunt can be used to prevent setup attempts such as Spikes, but Encore is better as not many Pokemon have access to it nor make use of it well, though the two can be used together to force a Pokemon locked into a non-damaging move to Struggle. Toxic allows Liepard to combat bulky Pokemon that can stand up to Foul Play, and causes residual damage to make up for weak Foul Plays; when used in tandem with Encore, it can really harass most walls looking to counteract the poison. However, bulkier Pokemon make use of Toxic better since they can take hits longer. Yawn can be used to force switches or put a foe to sleep, both of which can buy Liepard free turns, but Liepard would be exposed to attacks for at least one turn. Torment combos very well with a prior Substitute to infuriate Choice users (without Volt Switch or U-turn) or mono-attack Pokemon such as Alomomola and support Miltank, and can be used in tandem with Encore to force Struggling (and switches). Encore alone is better most of the time though.</p>

    <p>Knock Off can be used to cripple pretty much any wall and even certain sweepers, and is effective against bulky Poison-types that Toxic can't affect, though Liepard has better things to be doing and this is also better left off to bulkier Pokemon. Prankster Trick is outdone by Encore, nor is Liepard strong enough to make use of Choice items. Unburden with a pinch berry does not do damage as consistently as Life Orb and only has the boost as long as it stays in. Liepard has Hone Claws with physical moves such as Seed Bomb, Gunk Shot, and Iron Tail, but still cannot beat its common switch-ins. Prankster Charm can weaken physical sweepers, but it does clash with Foul Play and said physical sweepers can still overwhelm Liepard.</p>​

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Liepard is super frail, and one direct hit can do massive damage or even KO. In general, Pokemon that are even remotely bulky, such as Samurott and Eelektross, can take Liepard's attacks and KO back. Defensive titans such as Alomomola, Regice, Torkoal and even Wartortle perform similarly. Fighting-types and Steel-types make for the safest switch-ins to most Liepard, with Gurdurr receiving special mention due to powering up from status via Guts and threatening with STAB Mach Punch, while Shed Skin Scraggy manhandles any Liepard. Resisting the temptation to set up or heal haphazardly can deny Liepard the opportunity to mess you up with Encore, so just take it down as quickly as you can. Pivot Liepard for the most part is not very hard to counter due to its lackluster power, but access to U-turn and Sucker Punch makes it tricky to check. Faster Pokemon such as Tauros, Swellow, and various Choice Scarf Pokemon can easily KO Liepard, but if they are weakened they need to be wary of Sucker Punch. Priority moves outspeed Liepard's attack, cornering it into using Sucker Punch or switching out; faster priority such as Fake Out and ExtremeSpeed or faster priority users such as Quick Attack Swellow and Aqua Jet Floatzel outspeed it regardless. Jolly Shell Smash Carracosta and Belly Drum Linoone are two exceptions to setup sweepers Liepard cannot stop, as they can evade Liepard's Encore by following up with Aqua Jet and ExtremeSpeed respectively.</p>

    <p>Swagger Liepard is usually the one most have trouble with, even though Liepard plays just as much with Lady Luck during the initial turns of its mayhem-inducing antics. If it does get going though, it can still be stopped. Multi-hit moves such as Bonemerang, Gear Grind, Rock Blast, Icicle Spear, and Bullet Seed can bust through Liepard's Substitute with ease, especially after a Swagger boost. Marowak must be careful of Foul Play though, but others such as Klang, Golem, Armaldo, Piloswine, and Torterra can easily take a hit or two. Special attackers, especially those with 0 Attack IVs, can take on Swagger Liepard one-on-one the majority of the time as they do not take too much from self confusion or Foul Play, provided they aren't weak to Dark. Lum Berry grants one window of opportunity to dispatch Swagger Liepard before it causes further trouble. Liepard despises status as they drastically reduce its staying power; Toxic Spikes can bypass its Prankster Substitute which would ward off other attempts. Lickilicky with Own Tempo counters Swagger sets due to its confusion immunity while receiving free attack boosts, but must still watch out for boosted Foul Plays and Encore when trying to heal off damage or status. U-turn and Volt Switch can break Liepard's Substitute after it uses a Prankster Substitute (meaning Liepard cannot set up another one on the same turn) while escaping Swagger's confusion, leaving Liepard exposed to attack; however, the U-turn or Volt Switch user is likely to be crippled by status in the process. Be aware that Swagger alongside Thunder Wave can screw you over on a bad day regardless of any of this, but usually the odds are against Liepard.</p>​
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2014
  2. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    Ok, add Fake Absol set to the analysis.

    Slash Thunder Wave beside Encore, because Liepard is a really great paralysis spreader, and mention that if Thunder Wave is used Swagger should be used.

    In OO, mention Substitute + Liechi or Petaya in the Unburden point (preferably Petaya because cat has awful physical coverage).

    In CC mention that most special attackers with 0 Atk IVs can beat Liepard because they don't take much damage from self-confusion and Foul Play.
  3. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Added the changes, but I still do not consider Liepard a good Thunder Wave user. Other Pranksters do that better, since they actually sport bulk, and their lesser speed doesn't matter due to paralysis. The basis that it makes a good paraspreader is very iffy considering it needs hax just to work (or survive even).

    Besides, the idea that Thunder Wave can actually compete with Encore in terms of utility is ludicrous (Liepard stops a threat with T-Wave once before dying, Encore survives while doing so and discourages further attempts). Perhaps I should rename the set to 'Prankster Utility' or something?
  4. FireMage

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    Minor nitpick, but should be 0 attack IV's
  5. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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  6. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Revamped the analysis slightly.
  7. Hollywood

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    [Overview]
    • The point about being the only Prankster Encore user with offensive presence should be cut, as while it is a fairly large part in what makes Liepard good, it's something that should be mentioned in set comments instead, especially since this is covered well enough with the first point
    [SET COMMENTS] (Utility)
    • Please never ever ever ever ever ever say "crux of this set" anywhere as it's tacky and doesn't really ~mean~ anything; it's pretty much banned from being in analyses for this same reason
    • When talking about Encore, I think you can give the readers a little bit of credit and just say "Encore can lock opponents into unfavorable moves in order to grant free switches or prevent utility Pokemon from doing their jobs" rather than having all of the extensive information you do. Information is great, but we want to be concise as well.
    • The order when actually written out should also follow the order of the set; talk about the moves in slot one first, then two, three, and four. When you get to Swagger though, you can mention that it should only be used alongside TWave and Toxic should only be used alongside Encore. You sort of touched on this in the last point. You can go further into this by saying (Encore and Toxic only and to beat defensive mons and Swagger and TWave only and to beat offensive mons."
    • The point about other Prankster TWave users turns readers off from using it, so it's sort of counter-intuitive to do that when it's on the set (and in the first slot no less). I think it's fine to talk briefly about why Liepard is ideal but to emphasize its benefit if it's going to be on the set.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Utility)
    • Overall there is just way too much content on the EVs. Remember, analyses need to be concise, especially since most readers don't read the AC/teammates section anyways. If they are going to read it, they'll probably want it to be short enough that it won't be taxing TO read it. The whole EV explanation only needs to be a couple of points. "Speed EVs to outspeed fully invested base 95, HP and SpDef are used to let a sub survive a Shadow Ball or Scald from missy/mola, and the rest is put in Def, but you can use a faster spread." something like this still covers most of the content here while cutting to the chase and cuts out some of the less important stuff.
    • Foul Play part is fine
    • The last three points about alternative moves can also be cut down to "Liepard also has access to some other potential niche support moves, such as Torment, Knock Off, and Yawn, that can be used depending on what your team needs." I'd also move it to after the EV stuff, as teammates section is usually going to be a similar size to all the other options so it's nice to have them together without teammates breaking them up.
    [SET] (Nasty Plot)
    • Not sure how I feel about Taunt and Encore being on the same set and running monoattacking when you need that extra coverage and Taunt and Encore are used for pretty much the same thing. I'd prefer the set to be Nasty Plot / Encore | Taunt / Dark Pulse / Hidden Power Fighting
    [SET COMMENTS]
    • I wouldn't call Liepard the most effective specially offensive Dark-type because imo Shiftry is better and because it's kill or be killed with Liepard and doesn't have enough power to ensure the former, so I'd just say that it's an effective specially offensive Dark-type
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Standard max/max EV spreads don't need an explanation since they are straight-forward, so that can be cut
    • The comments on Taunt and HP Fighting need moved to set comments
    • Make sure to have examples of the "certain KOes" you get from hazard support; every Pokemon appreciates their checks and counters being worn down by hazards, so if you don't have any specific examples, this is pretty much irrelevant and can be assumed
    • Your teammates section is a bit lacking; feel free to add something like Fighting-types since they appreciate Psychic-types being taken care of and Liepard beats most of them 1v1 just fine or another example or two you can think of
    [SET COMMENTS] (Offensive Pivot)
    • Again, make sure your set comments follows along with the order of the set itself
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Offensive Pivot)
    • EV explanation unnecessary because standard max/max
    • Another niche that Liepard has over Skuntank is U-turn for fast scouting and between that and Encore is like the only reason to use it
    • Here's an example of somewhere that hazard support can be included without it netting any particular KOes: Encore and U-turn force many switches and can rack up hazard damage multiple times throughout a match, so this should be mentioned here
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Again, we want to be informative but concise as well, so try to trim some of this down or narrow it into fewer points
    • Make sure that when you mention something, you give an example or two so that the reader has a concrete idea of what kinds of Pokemon you are talking about. U-turn users, for example, is pretty vague (and not entirely true, as most of the best U-turn users are pretty frail and thus susceptible to Swagger, TWave, and Foul Play). I'd actually probably just cut that mention anyways, as it's not a very reliable way of dealing with Liepard. But for other spots where you don't have examples, make sure to include ~something~
    • BD Linoone and SS Costa are good ideas in theory, not so much in practice; pard can twave, swagger, or toxic both of them and weigh down on them significantly with this. It can also Taunt if it's carrying it, even though this will probably lead to a dead liepard at least you kept them from setting up~
    I'll look over this again when you've implemented my check. Most of it is good but it's not up to par with C&C standards on a more technical level. Just make sure and remember: we want to be as concise and informative as possible! If you have any questions on any of this let me know. It's pretty late right now, so it might now all make perfect sense because tired and stuff.
  8. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Utility set: I actually wrote that to discourage the use of Thunder Wave in mind because it sucks on Liepard, but the fact that it doesn't suck in general probably means I should tone it down a bit, though I still feel inclined to put that in there.

    Nasty Plot: Conflicted between Taunt and Encore, Taunt being more useful on walls that have yet to attack while Encore can buy free turns. Probably making them the primary slashes with Hidden Power Fighting as both their second slashes.

    Pivot: On it.

    C&C: What makes Linoone and Costa dangerous for Liepard is that they are one of the few sweepers where Liepard can't just switch in to stop their setup move like it can with any other setup sweeper. Linoone even has the advantage of KOing a weakened Liepard right there. I still believe Volt-turners can help to break the infamous hax-chain so that an unparalleled sweeper has a chance to sneak a hit in on Liepard, but should I mention how the Volt-turner is likely to be crippled in the process?
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  9. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Done with amcheck.
  10. Hollywood

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    Utility: that's fine, just make sure that the readers know that it's not complete garbage on Liepard because if it was it wouldn't be on the set
    NP: I'll let other QC members add on to this, but I feel like NP/Dark Pulse/HP Fighting should always be used. Mono-Dark coverage, especially on a frail attacker, isn't very good, and it invites Fighting-types in to smash it.
    C&C: yeah, they're fine in there I suppose, just wanted to make sure that you mention that more often than not, these Pokemon will be pretty crippled while trying to deal with Liepard, which makes them unreliable checks

    This definitely looks much better now, still some fine-tuning that can be done during the writing process, but if that proves to be problematic once it's written, we can deal with it there. Lots of information. !_!

    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 1/3
  11. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Thanks, I can't edit my QC approval right now, but I'll do it soon! Write-up incoming.
  12. Hollywood

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    Make sure you get a second QC approval before writing this up.
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  13. tennisace

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    @Punchshroom
    Utility:
    -Set should be:
    Sub
    Swagger
    Foul Play
    Encore / Thunder Wave

    -Toxic is AC.
    -Torment should be OO, as it's ok but you have to give up an important move on both sets to use it. Most opponents will switch out after you Encore regardless.
    -Yawn should be OO, as you're vulnerable to be OHKO'd in the turn you use it, unlike say Torkoal which can tank the hit usually.
    -Since when is Golurk a "set up sweeper", replace it with NP Misdreavus (immune to super effective fighting moves)
    -When you mention SpDef partners, don't mention Flareon. Mention Lickilicky or Audino instead, as they're more relevant to the metagame.

    Nasty Plot:
    -Talked with QC, we don't know when this got approved but put it in OO. It's not better than the pivot set, and unless someone shows logs of it working, it's not a good enough set for the analysis.

    Pivot:
    -Set should be:
    Encore
    Sucker Punch
    U-turn
    Pursuit / Night Slash
    -Emphasize the utility of Pursuit on this set, which allows Liepard to damage fleeing Psychic or Ghost-types (ohkoing Jynx & co) and then U-turn out of whatever counter comes in.

    OO:
    -Add Taunt here, but mention that Encore is better since it has a more select distribution.

    Checks & Counters:
    -Remove the mention of Knock Off / Toxic, as really nobody ever uses those on Liepard and the point of C&C is to check and counter the sets presented.
    -Make greater emphasis that the Swagger set can beat practically any mon 1v1 with enough luck, but your luck will run out eventually.
    -Mention exactly which priority outspeeds Liepard, since the user needs to be using either Extremespeed or Fake Out, or be faster than Liepard.
    -You don't mention Gurdurr anywhere, and it's a pretty solid check to Liepard.

    That's what I can see right now, make these changes and I'll go over it again.
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  14. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Okay, a few things with this:
    Since it's a utility Liepard, shouldn't Encore / Thunder Wave be slashed first?
    - A move that has more than a 50% chance of backfiring isn't what I would consider a 'staple' in Liepard's moveslot. I get that it powers up Foul Play for bulkier foes, but Toxic can mess them up just as much (bar Poison-types, which is why Swagger is still in there). SwagPlay is less effective against bulky teams and pretty overkill against offense, as Foul Play alone can handle offense just fine.
    -The reason I put Torment here is because it doesn't fit in the other sets, but I guess I can mention that in OO anyway.
    -Yeah, Yawn should be in OO :P
    -I don't really see Nasty Plot/Calm Mind Missy moreso than Rock Polish Golurks, but I guess I can make that change.
    -Unfortunately, there aren't many special walls that don't share weaknesses with Liepard, which is why I hesitated. I kinda forgot they were dealing with special attacking foes though, so I'll put that in.

    So if Charizard can pull off a Swords Dance set to rip apart its counters and everything after, why can't Liepard use Nasty Plot to do the same to most (albeit not all) things that would switch into a Swagger Liepard? I don't get the hype of the pivot set either: it faces great competition with the bulkier, stronger & Toxic Spikes resistant Skuntank; Nasty Plot Liepard competes with....nothing if I'm not mistaken, as other Nasty Plotters are usually dealt with whatever that can handle their other sets.

    -Wow, can't believe I missed Pursuit.
    Now it's not that I think this set is bad, I agree it is a decent pivot, however noticed I mentioned decent. This Liepard isn't dealing with almost anything the regular Liepard cannot (which most people will switch to the instant Liepard pops out), which lowers this set's effectiveness in my eyes. At least Nasty Plot Liepard can lure out stuff and threaten KO(es).

    Yeah, I'll move Taunt here.

    -The whole point I even made this analysis is to prove that Liepard can be used effectively without banking on hax, I shouldn't be giving Swagger as much 'praise' as it does.
    -Priority doesn't have to be faster to pressure a Liepard without a Sub (Sub renders faster priority moot anyway) , as it can pressure a Liepard into not attacking. I'll emphasize faster priority though. (For the record, I did mention Jolly SmashCosta's Aqua Jet and Linoone's Extreemespeed)
    -
  15. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    please add tennisace's changes
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  16. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    All of them? I did add some like Taunt and Yawn in OO, Pursuit and U-turn emphasis, removing Knock Off and Toxic as well as mention of faster priority in C&C, and also that Swagger potentially (rarely) beats everything.

    At the very least, I'd like to some say with what works for Liepard and what doesn't (Swagger doesn't really "work", so much just happens).
  17. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    we discussed it quite a bit in #neverused earlier and no QC member has disagreed yet. I guess we can wait a bit so more people can see it here, but as it stands that is how we want the analysis
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  18. Punchshroom

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    I'll go with your changes, I'll have to revamp like 60% of the analysis if I do, since I can no longer claim that Liepard harrases stall and offense with the suggested primary set (Isn't this making it worse though?). Still putting the whole NP set in OO in case it does get approved (for the record, I still don't get why it's so bad).
  19. Punchshroom

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    Sorry tennis, I'm not too sure what this means: does this mean Encore is more rarely distributed or targets more pokemon overall?
  20. tennisace

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    The former, since Taunt is a TM and a lot of mons get it.
  21. Punchshroom

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    Gotcha, are these changes fine now (can someone please tell me why NP is bad)?
  22. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    OK I talked to Punchshroom a bit, and I think we were to quick to immediately reject the NP set. I doubt many people have used it, and with Encore is has potential to be legitimate. So before that set gets approved/denied, I'd like QC members to at least try the set out for a few matches.

    So this might take an extra few days, but at least we'll have a more definite answer then.
  23. Hollywood

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    yeah, I'm going to test it out myself with HP Fighting and see how it does. Punchshroom showed me a replay with it where it did a lot of work, and I could see it having potential, though I am still a tad skeptical on it. I'll comment on it once I've used it and can tell how it does for me.
  24. Punchshroom

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    A bit of testing revealed to me that Nasty Plot Liepard is pretty reminiscent to the likes of Calm Mind Swoobat and Nasty Plot Jynx (unsurprising with the latter): they are fast, frail and can become dangerous after they setup. The difference is that while Liepard is slower than Swoobat and weaker than both after setup (it is still strong and fast enough for the job), it can get the free turn for setup easier and relies on potent surprise factor (Swoobat is seen a mile away, as is almost any Nasty Plotter really).

    Edit: To be honest, I believe this set's primary purpose isn't for sweeping, but wallbreaking, since it can send physically bulky Liepard switch-ins into a panic and either smash them or hurt whatever comes in to sponge the +2 hit. Sweeping is likely a bonus 0_o
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2013
  25. tennisace

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    Yeah I have to disagree entirely, NP cat is stonewalled by things like Mandibuzz, and even with Encore it's incredibly hard to get a boost because you either have to come in after a kill or risk getting nailed by something like a Haunter Sludge Bomb or a Musharna Twave or other stuff. It's also extremely weak without a boost (failed to OHKO a Shiftry with HP Fighting). There was one battle out of ~10 I just had using it where it did something useful, and it was me sacrificing it to a Braviary.

    NU is a tier where you can force plenty of "mediocre" sets to work, but that doesn't mean they're good or analysis worthy.

    <gogoat> im looking at that team
    <Treecko> either roar golem or standard regirock
    <gogoat> and i cant help thinking
    <gogoat> pivot cat would fit so much better
    <Treecko> I KNOW
    <ebeast> it prob would
    <ebeast> lol

    QC Reject 1/3 on NP Cat

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