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Life in Technicolor

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by peng, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. peng

    peng

    Joined:
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction
    Hi. So this has been my main team for the last 3 months or so and its been one of the more fun teams I've used in the terrible metagame we call BW. I don't really have any major achievements with it; I deliberately didn't ladder with it because I built it for WCoP. I then didn't use it for WCoP because people had put logs against it up on aesoft and pastebin and I would have been at a severe disadvantage if my opponents had done their homework and knew all the sets I had. Probably the best achievement the team has is going 6-1 (I think?) in WCoP tryouts, only losing to my own choke.

    The team is offensive with a focus on Toxic Spikes, which are pretty scarcely used nowadays outside of stall. Many people that I showed the team to seemed pretty skeptical about their effectiveness given how popular some Poison-types (namely Tentacruel) are in the current metagame. However, a lot of teams out there really hate Toxic Spikes; semi-stall teams with Hippowdon / Celebi / other water-resist cores are pretty common at the moment and generally have a pretty hard time once TSpikes go up. The #1 threat in BW1 OU, Terrakion, also despises Toxic Spikes, and means it doesn't actually get many chances to come in and fire-off those Choice Banded attacks when Stealth Rock and other residual damage is factored in.

    Note: I'm not trying to update this for BW2, I want this team to die along with BW1. Please make sure any suggestions you give are for BW1!

    Team
    [​IMG]
    Miss Scarlet (Heatran) (F) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Heatran is my favourite Stealth Rock user in the game and as a result finds itself on most of my teams. Its typing and stat distribution make it a very good check to a lot of the top threats in the game, including Scizor, Dragonite and Volcarona, making it an anti-metagame Pokemon despite being at #4 usage. I tend to lead with it to get up rocks early, unless my opponent is using rain or is likely to lead with Rotom-W in which case I pretty much always lead with Roserade.

    Heatran is generally my go-to guy for sun. Although any good Sun team has stuff like Dugtrio, Earthquake Venusaur etc to deal with Heatran, its still generally able to nab a kill against a key sweeper before it goes down itself. Getting up rocks early whilst maintaing Heatran's Balloon tends to be pretty difficult, but if I pull it off then the game is practically already won, as their Volcarona ends up crippled and Dugtrio's sash is broken. Max SAtk and Spd are pretty obvious for hitting stuff as hard as possible and speed-tying with opposing offensive Heatran. I ran 68 HP / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd for a while, which outspeeds everything up to Adamant Dragonite, but the bulk gained wasn't significant enough to warrant losing to opposing Balloon Heatran and random stuff like Toxicroak.

    [​IMG]
    Rev. Green (Roserade) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 24 SDef / 232 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    I really cannot emphasize how much of a troll fast Roserade can be; I've had numerous games where this guy has killed a Politoed with Leaf Storm, then Sleep Powdered a SubDD Gyarados before it could set-up and then still OHKOing their Mamoswine from -2 SAtk. The extra Speed comes in handy so often against Pokemon that assume they can set-up a Sub or outspeed and OHKO Roserade (Dragonite, Gyarados, Heatran, Gliscor, some Ninetales etc) only to get put to sleep or taken out themselves. The extra power is also useful in denting Roserade's common switch-ins; for example, standard Latios takes 33.8% - 40.1% from Leaf Storm.

    I'm not sure if I've emphasised this too much yet, but this team is based around Toxic Spikes. Roserade is probably one of the best users of the move in the game, since it beats all the common spinners bar Psyshock Starmie. Roserade's use isn't limited to fast Sleep Powders and dropping Toxic Spikes, however. Absorbing Toxic Spikes is also an incredibly useful attribute, preventing Kingdra's sweep from being cut short by status which helps a lot in the match-up against rain stall. 232 Spd EVs with a Timid nature hits 300 Spd, enough to outspeed neutral base 100s, the most notable being Volcarona. The extra 24 EVs are thrown in SDef rather than HP because Roserade isn't gonna live any physical attacks regardless, and it ends up being more useful for tanking hits from Politoed and Rotom-W.

    [​IMG]
    Prof. Plum (Gengar) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast

    SubSplit Gengar with TSpikes support is probably one of the most difficult Pokemon in the game to face, with the only real counter to it being SDef Jirachi. Gengar's blistering Speed and flawless 2 move coverage make it as big an asset against Offense as it is against stall, and it finds a lot of oppurtunities to get up a Substitute thanks to its Fighting- and Ground-type immunities in particular.

    I would say Gengar is the team's spinblocker but he doesn't really pull it off as efficiently anymore. Starmie OHKOs with Hydro Pump / Rain-boosted Surf / Psyshock, Tentacruel takes a huge chunk of HP out with Rain-boosted Scald and Forretress can just Volt Switch into ScarfTar with prediction. As a result, Gengar is an offensive powerhouse first and foremost, and the ability to spinblock occasionally against stuff like Donphan and poorly played Forretress is a bonus.

    [​IMG]
    Cnl. Mustard (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 16 HP / 216 Atk / 36 SDef / 240 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch
    - U-turn

    Pretty standard ScarfRachi, and easily my favourite scarfer in BW1. Whilst Landorus and Terrakion have the advantage of being able to revenge-kill more threats, Jirachi's Steel-typing and 100 / 100 / 100 defenses means it can switch-in on Dragon-type attacks from Latias, Latios and Dragonite decently rather than having to sacrifice a Pokemon every time. The downside to this Steel-typing is being trapped by Magnezone, but DragMag is decently handled by Heatran, Gengar and setting-up my own Kingdra pretty early; Jirachi's Ice Punch often comes as a last resort if I see Magnezone in team preview.

    Iron Head, Ice Punch and U-Turn are all standard on ScarfRachi. I ran Trick for a long time as the 4th move, but Lucario proved to be (and still is) a big issue to the team so I switched across to Fire Punch so that Jirachi can revenge kill it. Fire Punch is also nice for hitting stuff like weakened Ferrothorn and occasionally Magnezone, but U-Turn is usually the better move when predicting the latter to switch-in.

    BKC did the EVs. They probably don't do anything specific but he enjoys throwing 16 EVs in random defenses with no justification, and they work so not really much point in changing it.

    [​IMG]
    Mrs. Peacock (Salamence) (F) @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Outrage
    - Flamethrower
    - Earthquake

    This thing is like New New MixMence. I've always been a big fan of MixMence, but I haven't really used it to success since around this time last year with this team. The biggest problem I find with standard MixMence in BW1 is that it doesn't actually break stall all that well anymore. The main reason for this is that Eviolite Chansey doesn't really give a shit about Brick Break, and Jellicent just tanks hits from him all day. This set is less focused on hitting everything hard straight off the bat, and more focused on baiting in Steel-types on an assumed Choice Scarfed Dragon Claw, and scorching them with Flamethrower to give an initial Moxie boost. At +1 Atk with Skarmory / Forretress / Ferrothorn dead or majorly weakened, Salamence can quite easily 2HKO the rest of the team and end-up sweeping, or at the very least clear the way for a Kingdra sweep.

    I think this set went on site a few weeks ago, but iirc the write-up has Expert Belt with Fire Blast as the main option. The biggest issue with this is that missing a Fire Blast against Skarmory or Forretress not only gives them a free layer of Spikes that turn but also alerts them to the fact that you aren't choiced at all, and from there you've lost your sweep. Fire Gem Flamethrower packs very close to the same power as EBelt Fire Blast on the first hit, and is just generally a much more efficient method at removing opposing steels. The only real issue with Fire Gem is that it only works for the first hit, but all relevant Steel-types bar Ferrothorn in Rain are OHKOd, and even Rain Ferrothorn takes like 90% minimum from 2 Flamethrowers meaning it isn't at good enough HP to wall Kingdra later in the game.

    Many people opt for Magnezone to remove Steel-types when facilitating a Kingdra sweep, but this method has the advantage of also baiting and KOing Shed Shell Skarmory, which seems to be getting more popular every day.

    [​IMG]
    Mrs. White (Kingdra) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 28 SDef / 228 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Outrage

    Blast from the past. Most people are using ChestoRest Kingdra at the moment, but I got really fed-up of trying to set-up vs Tentacruel or Jellicent or something, Rest-up to full HP and then get burnt by Scald immediately. SubDD Kingdra, however, looks really good in the BW1 metagame with so many bulky waters (Politoed, Jellicent, Tentacruel etc) often running only Scald as an offensive option, which means Kingdra can easily Substitute-up on them and get an easy 2 Dragon Dances behind the safety of the Sub (Tentacruel's Rain-boosted Scald deals only 11.3% max to Kingdra). Substitute Kingdra also has a few other notable advantages over ChestoRest, such as fully abusing Toxic Spikes by spamming Substitute to rack-up poison damage, and also beating standard SubDD Gyarados in Rain far easier.

    So yeah, this guy completely decimates offensive rain once Ferro is weak, which is really easy to pull-off with Heatran, Salamence, HP Fire Roserade, and Focus Blast Gengar.

    Conclusion
    What else can I say? Thank god BW1 is over. I've been playing this game competitively since 2008 and I can honestly say the last 6 months have been by far the worst metagame (or series of metagames I guess) I have ever played.

    I would do a big list of shout-outs but I can't really be bothered at the moment, so I'll keep it short. Thanks to #uk for being chill again this year, especially to Nachos and twash for selecting me for the team even after my disaster season last year, not that this year went any better (worst team match-up of my life vs Funkasaurus rofl). I need to thank BKC too because I test all my shit against him and he's just always there for me to bounce ideas off of.

    Burn in hell BW1.

    also gec is a shit
  2. peng

    peng

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Importable
    Show Hide
    Prof. Plum (Gengar) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast

    Miss Scarlet (Heatran) (F) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Rev. Green (Roserade) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 24 SDef / 232 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Cnl. Mustard (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 16 HP / 216 Atk / 36 SDef / 240 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch
    - U-turn

    Mrs. Peacock (Salamence) (F) @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Outrage
    - Flamethrower
    - Earthquake

    Mrs. White (Kingdra) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 28 SDef / 228 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Outrage


    Teambuilding Process
    Show Hide
    The original concept of the team was Toxic Spikes offense, as I find Toxic Spikes to be an incredibly underrated entry hazard. Many set-up sweepers, in particular Substitute users, become far more threatening with Toxic Spikes support, and can often abuse them to defeat their best checks. A set I had been wanting to try out for a while was Offensive Roserade, which naturally fits well with the concept. I then decided that I wanted 2 Substitute users; Gengar was almost a given, as it is arguably the best Substitute user in the game and can also protect my Toxic Spikes from Rapid Spinners such as Forretress. Kingdra was added for its ability to easily set-up on Tentacruel, who is problematic to any TSpikes-abusing team, and also because it was one of the best anti-metagame Pokemon at the time.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Its at this point that I started patching-up weaknesses to opposing play-styles. Sun looked to be a problem already, so I added Heatran for its ability to check/counter most Sun sweepers and give Stealth Rock support. I also went with MixNite, who does a great job of luring in and Fire Blasting Kingdra's counters whilst also checking sun well with its Grass- and Fire-type resistances.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Last slot needed to be a scarfer. Jirachi is pretty much my go to scarfer for teams like this because of U-Turn and its ability to switch-in on Latios decently. Very early into testing I realised MixNite wasn't working too well; Life Orb was a massive giveaway to the set so the only way of reliably catching Skarmory and Ferrothorn was predicting the switch. Its low speed also made it dead weight against anything but stall. I decided to replace it with Fire Gem Salamence, which lures in steels very well to scorch with Flamethrower, tears through stall whilst also still being useful vs offense with its decent base 100 Spd.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Threat List
    I'm not even going to pretend that I'll do a full one this time:

    Landorus - obviously a threat to every offensive team. Basically I try to get-up Stealth Rock turn 1 if possible. Scarf variants are annoying because they outspeed everything unless my mons are behind subs, so I pretty much have to rely on prediction to get Gengar or Salamence in safely on an Earthquake. Expert Belt sets actually end-up being easier to deal with because Gengar, Jirachi and +1 Kingdra outspeed it.

    Starmie - again, the team is offensive so it has Starmie problems. Offensive Starmie in rain is at least handleable because both Kingdra and Jirachi can revenge-kill it, but it can be a dick if paired with Ferrothorn. Gameplan vs Rain offense is always to bait in Ferrothorn early game with Salamence to shave off a bunch of HP so Kingdra has a field day. Scald / Psyshock / Rapid Spin / Recover Starmie got really popular recently and is also part of the reason I didn't use this team in WCoP; this team has huge issues with it. Kingdra, Salamence and Jirachi are decent against it as long as it doesn't get 3/3 Scald burns, but yeah its still a dick. Against both variants I try to get Toxic Spikes down early to bait them into Rapid Spin or Recover - often I'll have to sac Gengar to block spin and then go to ScarfRachi or Kingdra to revenge-kill.

    Gengar - Jirachi is my only real answer. Outside of that Roserade can take a hit and HP Fire the Substitute. Bluffing Choice Scarf with Salamence also plays pretty key here to force my opponent out. In a pinch I can risk a speed tie with my own Gengar. BKC recommends Choice Scarf Scizor on like every one of my teams to help deal with Gengar and Starmie, so I bet he'll do it again now.

    Terrakion - Rock Polish is a dick but thankfully barely anyone uses that anymore and it doesn't get many chances to set-up. Basic idea is just to get Toxic Spikes down asap.
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Very nice team! This is the first good team that i see using the combination of Moxielure Mence and SubDD Kingdra, which seems very good. Also i love the Roserade and Gengar sets, as you don't see them very often those days...!

    And as you said, THX GOD BW1 IS OVER!!!
  4. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

    Joined:
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    Really amazing team pal! Creative and original, this team clearly deserves a Luvdisc.

    This team has a fantastic synergy and it shows an excellent way how to abuse the underrated Toxic Spikes, where everyday is being less used even though they are a lot of Rain stall teams vulnerable to it. My only real suggestion is to try HP Ice over Fire on Roserade, so it discourages Dragonite to completely get a chance to set-up at all against your pokemons. Since Salamence does a nice job luring Ferrothorn and weakening him for a Kingdra sweep, I believe that you won´t miss HP Fire at all. Excellent job and hope to see another of your teams :)
  5. peng

    peng

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    480
    My team has never been 6-0ed by Dragonite because it never gets a chance to get 2 DDs. Everything on my team outspeeds it at +0 lol. The only place it can really set-up is against Fire Punch-locked Jirachi, which I only ever use for Lucario anyway and Luke tends to come in as a late-game sweeper (i.e. generally after Dnite is already dead). Most DDnite don't carry Earthquake so even if Heatran's Balloon does get broken by a random U-Turn it can still tank a +1 Outrage and HP Ice for a KO. Even if it does have Earthquake, DDnite really struggles to get 2 Dances against this team so Jirachi outspeeds and KOs with Ice Punch.

    Standard Sun has 0 switch-ins for this Salamence, so I in fact have 2 very good checks to Sun with Heatran and Salamence. Kingdra is also okay against sun teams as it can set-up on Heatran and slower Ninetales variants. Gengar is frail but can generally take unboosted Hidden Power [Fire]s and [Ice]s from the chlorophyll sweepers, and again they don't get too many chances to set-up against the team at all.

    Roserade is a dick to rain, and Salamence does a good job at luring in Ferrothorn for Kingdra to sweep. The only Pokemon that resist Kingdra's attacks are Ferrothorn, and Empoleon: Ferrothorn gets lured by Salamence 90% of the time and just gets worn down the other 10% of the time, and Empoleon is never seen in OU.

    Its an offensive team, so it doesn't really matter if my pokemon are frail and can't take hits; in a pinch I can sac a poke depending on the switch-in to regain momentum. You argument seems to be "your dragons and steels are useless because everyone prepares for them" which doesn't really make any sense. Theres more to pokemon than just team match-up.
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    The point is that there aren't many things that can't do anything against Dnite. Everything in his team is faster than Adamant Dnite, and they can all break MS with the first hit and then force Dnite to use Outrage or die from the second hit. The only poke that can't seriously damage Dnite is Roserade (assuming Lum DDnite), so i guess that he should play carefully with her if he sees Dnite. Also you are assuming that he wont have SR up, when in reality his team is perfectly capable of keeping SR on the field. As an offensive team he doesn't give too much time to the opponent to spin (save for Starmie), and he also has Gengar, which although frail can spin-block one or two times.

    Finally if offensive Dnite wants to kill Salamence and Kingdra he must lock itself into Outrage, and get revenge killed by Jirachi after.

    One idea that just came into my mind is EB Latios. You could replace Mence with it. Latios is still able to lure steels if used properly and murder them with HP Fire, when they are expecting you to be choice locked. Latios also helps you with your Hydro Pump + Psyshock Starmie problem as he walls him and can ko him back, while also having Recover to stick around longer. The only downside is that Latios is very prone to Ttar, but you can always predict the switch in and double switch to Jirachi.

    This is the set:

    Latios @ Expert Belt
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Levitate
    - Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Recover / Dragon Pulse / Psyshock / Thunder / Thunderbolt
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Do you even know what you are talking about? First of all when you lay hazards you act. But when you spin hazards, you react, which means that the opponent is already one step ahead of you. Also there is plenty of time to set-up SR against balanced and stall teams, and even against offensive teams if you make the right double switches.
  8. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

    Joined:
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    You clearly have no idea in how to rate someone´s else team. First, you are trashing on this team with nonsense babble, and second, you are not even offering a solution. If you think on making radical changes, simply don´t rate it. The point in rating a team is to fix their weaknesses without changing drastically its aesthetics. alexwolf pretty much explained how he would deal to the "threats" you are pinpointing out, so please explain, how is his team weak "on most everything"? He has Roserade and Kingdra to check Rain; Heatran, Salamence and Kingdra deal with Sun; While Sand does not really have a specific pokemon to check it, this is because most of the OU pokemons can deal perfectly with it on synergy.

    He also, already explained that this team is a BW1 team and he does not plan to upgrade to BW2, so read before you post anything. I don´t like people that start to post stuff without even knowing what kind of team they are dealing with, so please think your words and at least bother yourself some of your time to test this team before you even post "something."
  9. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

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    He was clear enough in posting a little threatlist pointing out his mayor weakenesses which are Landorus, Starmie, Gengar and RP Terrakion. Not everyone has time to make a full threatlist and besides, it isn´t obligatory. It is interesting that you had 30 minutes to attack his team, yet you claim not having enough to show some solutions, and you even ask to get back to the topic when you started this?

    alexwolf and I already explained how he would deal with some threats you mentioned, and besides to check a threat it is not only done by hit-and-run; double-switching and prediction exists to pressure your opponent. I will be really glad to see how you actually helped PenguinX´s "below-average" team, according to you.
  10. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Hey PenguinX,

    This team is very solid and it uses some underrated pokemon (props on that), but it's a bit weak to some fast special sweepers and Terrakion as you mentioned. To fix that I would probably go with Scarf Scizor over Jirachi, as it deals with pretty much all those threats while not disrupting the synergy of your team. A moveset like Bullet Punch / U-turn / Superpower / Pursuit would fit pretty well.
  11. asterat

    asterat

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    I rarely try to provide serioud help to teams posted in this forum nowadays because most teams are too boring to rate or the person that authored the thread is too proud too accept criticism. Your thread holds neither of these characteristics so it is already a success in my mind.

    Volcarona is kind of a big threat, especially if used on a well played sun team based around it, which may feature pokemon like dugtrio to aid volcarona in its planned late game sweep. If heatran is trapped by dugtrio your only hope is to beat it with salamence, or hit it with gengar before it boosts. However the unconventional SubQD set will beat salamence 1v1, provided it has a boost. This leaves me to suggest that you use a lum berry on salamence to prevent flame body hax from volcarona. This will not only be helpful in this situation but it will help in many others agtainst volcarona. This way you also have a way to shrugg off scald burns as roserade will be worn down quickly by hazards as yo have no spinner and a scald burn will not help, although the attack will do pitiful damage the burn in combination with spikes ans stealth rocks will take you down rather quickly. Lum berry will allow you to shrug off a possible scald burn or as noted aboce, flame body hax. With this new set for salamence flamethrower will probably look to bebe quite lacking in power, which is true. However if you invest 64 SpA EVs and use fire blast you can OHKO physically defensive skarmory after stealth rocks.
    Here is the set:
    Mrs. Peacock (Salamence) (F) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 192 Atk / 64 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
  12. august

    august free the robots
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winnerwon the 5th Official Smogon Tournament

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    Hmm interesting team, but you have a lot of trouble with bulky quiver dance volcarona with morning sun, essentially nothing beats it on your team with is actually pretty scary. heatran is likely your first switch in, but you have no phazers and volc can just boost up on your 85% accuracy move. after that, it easily ohkos rade, jirachi, mence after 2 dances with rocks, kingdra, and gengar.

    the only remedy i can see is using stealth rock heatran with roar, the bulky set. while it doesnt provide such a crucial pivot, it does roar volc out with no problem and in general can tank specs draco meteors. with protect, you can also scout water/fighting/ground locked choice users, giving gengar and kingdra free turns to do what they do best.

    gonna agree with whoever said hp ice over fire on roserade, just because if you use sdef tran, dd mence becomes a problem :toast:

    yeah thats really all i notice at first glance. you still get a great sun check (you just have to play smart against trio with gengar and shit), solid team. luvdisc
  13. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    Interesting, innovative, well-balanced team. All-out sun offense appears to be the only playstyle that gives you trouble, as once Heatran is down (Dugtrio etc) you can be swept pretty easily by Volcarona or Venusaur, and Victreebel is pretty much a guaranteed loss for you. To fix that I might consider a Rain Dance Kingdra set, whether specially or physically based doesn't seem to matter. That should catch Sun off guard, as once they see you lack a weather starter the instinctive move for them is to fodder off Ninetales, giving you an easy opportunity to rain on their parade. Othrr than that, I don't think there's anything else that needs to be said. Nice team, earned a Luvdisc.
  14. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

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    190
    I tested the suggestion I gave you on HP Ice Roserade, with Choice Scarf Scizor and I came up with good results. Scizor deals excellently with your Gengar, Starmie and RP Terrakion weaknesses, while Roserade can catch off guard any Dragonite that tries to set-up, with HP Ice murdering them after SR. Of course, CB Dragonite becomes harder to deal with, but armed with proper prediction, he becomes a moderate threat.
  15. MacBook

    MacBook

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    If there is one thing I find interesting on this team, it's the fact that you have close to, if not, max speed on everything. It is extremely hard to play around/revenge kill your pokes for that reason alone. Its also exceptional how well ScarfJirachi, MixMence, and that SubDra of yours work together. It's art. Really.

    However, I strongly suggest placing more SpA EVs into your Salamence. It'll be more easy to take out Steel types in the rain. And with Moxie you won't, really be missing out on much Atk anyway. The whole reason for Mence is to lure in the steels, take them out, and recieve the Moxie boost... right? So I feel like it could get the job done better with close to max SpA EVs.

    Realistically, there isn't a lot you can or should change on your team. If you try replacing some of the pokes you have to better cover a small threat, then the team won't work the way it does. Your team deserves another disc.
  16. whitesocks

    whitesocks

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    48
    Strong team is strong.
    To be fair, by keeping the offensive momentum on a high (with a couple of turns of t-spikes set-up aside), the opponent may not have much available time to spin away your hazards. If they do manage then you still are keeping the flow of the battle in your hands so it isn't too much of a problem, thus Gengar does a fine job as a spin blocker.

    As for the rest of your team I cannot see a glaring weakness on paper; Dnite isn't even a problem to be honest considering BalloonTran (with hp ice obviously) destroys most Dnites especially after rocks. Jirachi is honestly the only poke that seems unneeded, maybe switch it out for either a different set or a different poke completely. As for which one I do not have a solid idea at the moment so I will have to come back on that.

    As for everything else, all fits its role and does a fine job at doing so. Hope the team had much success as it looks very solid.
  17. peng

    peng

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    480
    Thanks for the feedback so far, guys. I'm really liking the HP Ice Roserade suggestion in particular, and there are a few other sets that I'm definitely going to give a test when i can find some people to test against.

    I'll update this post with replies to individual posts when I have more time. Thanks again!

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