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Lileep (Analysis)'

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by matty, Mar 23, 2010.

  1. matty

    matty I did stuff along time ago
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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Lileep Analysis: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/lileep

    [Overview]
    <p>Lileep is a curious Pokemon in the Little Cup tier because in order to fully use its sweeping potential, you need to pair it with certain Pokemon. The main component to any Lileep team is Hippoptas due to its ability to activate sandstorm, which raises Lileep's average Special Defense stat to one of the highest in the metagame. You also need a team that can soften up and remove problematic counters for Lileep so that it can safely stat up. Combine this with a decent HP stat, a strong Defense stat, a movepool that compliments its natural bulk and a helpful ability in Suction Cups, and Lileep has the potential to sweep through unprepared teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Sand Storm Sweeper
    move 1: Stockpile
    move 2: Swords Dance
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Seed Bomb
    item: Oran Berry
    Ability: Suction Cups
    EVs: 228 HP / 220 Def / 60 SpD
    Nature: Impish

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of the most despised sets in Little Cup for its ability to turn a “won” match into a quick loss. The set is simple and fairly easy to set up; however, it will require sandstorm to be in effect. Switch Lileep in near the end of a match when most Pokemon are weakened and begin to Stockpile up. With your bulky EV spread you are reaching 26 HP, 18 Def, and 24 SpD under sandstorm condition before you even begin to Stockpile up. Stockpile and recover as necessary to maintain maximum health (also remember that you have an Oran Berry, which is basically like a free Recover). All the while sandstorm should be whittling down the opposing Pokemon's health. In the end you are aiming to get 3 Stockpiles and at least one Swords Dance in before you starting attacking.</p>

    <p>Often you will find that unless the Pokemon either has STAB Ice-, Fighting-, or Bug-type attacks, they aren’t going to take you down. Their only hope is a lucky critical hit. After that, sweep with Seed Bomb, which reaches 20 Attack after a Swords Dance. If you're feeling lucky, you can Swords Dance even more if you feel like you need the extra power.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Energy Ball / Giga Drain
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: AncientPower / Hidden Power Rock
    item: Oran Berry
    Ability: Suction Cups
    evs: 228 HP / 36 SpA / 220 SpD
    nature: Calm

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Lileep makes a great lead due its ability to beat a lot of the common leads in Little Cup and its general bulk to take a lot of hits. Many of the common leads in Little Cup include Kabuto, Omastar, Phanpy, Chimchar, Aipom, Meowth and Houndour, many of whom Lileep can easily manage. Stealth Rock is a no-brainer move that is usually set up, barring Taunt leads like Aipom and Meowth. Energy Ball is a nice STAB move that hits Kabuto, Omastar, and Phanpy for significant damage. Earth Power hits Chimchar and Houndour for super effective damage and breaks their Focus Sashes. AncientPower is a strong STAB move that hits Flying Pokemon like Mantyke for significant damage.</p>

    <p>The novelty in the set lies in that fact that nothing can really OHKO Lileep except for a Snover's Blizzard. 228 HP and 220 Special Defense EVs allow it to survive a Houndour's and Chimchar's Overheat, activating Oran Berry. The extra EVs are put into Special Attack to give a little extra power.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>You can alternatively use Giga Drain instead of Energy Ball which sacrifices power for the ability to heal a little bit, as it still OHKOes Kabuto and Omastar, and takes a significant chunk from Phanpy. Hidden Power Rock is also another option that gives you 10 more power than AncientPower. However, AncientPower's ability to boost all stats by +1 10% of the time is usually more helpful than the power boost of Hidden Power Rock.</p>

    [Team Options]
    <p>For starters, you will need Hippopotas for sandstorm since the boost in Special Defense is key. Aside from that, any entry hazards are nice to remove any annoying Focus Sash Pokemon. You’ll also want your team to soften up your opponent before you attempt to sweep with Lileep since it often can take 50% away and dislikes extra turns that could end up being critical hits.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Lileep has some other interesting options. Curse cuts down on the set-up time, but leaves you more open to special attacks. However, you wouldn’t need to run Swords Dance, which allows you to run another attacking move like Rock Slide alongside Seed Bomb. If you choose to run Curse, you should run a 228 HP / 220 SpD / 60 Def EV spread. You can also possibly add Amnesia to the mix which would allow you to get as many boosts as you wanted instead of the normal cap of three that Stockpile has.</p>

    <p> It is also possible to run a stall set that uses Toxic and Flash or Substitute instead of Swords Dance; however you might as well set up Lileep if you can stall.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>The #1 counter to Lileep is Snover. It not only stops sandstorm but it can OHKO with a STAB Blizzard. You will want to get rid of him and have sand presence before you set up Lileep. Otherwise it will switch in all day on you and make your life miserable.</p>

    <p> Surprisingly, Dratini and Bagon are fairly decent counters to Lileep because of their ability to Dragon Dance in the face of Lileep while taking minimal damage even from a Swords Dance Seed Bomb. Smart Dratini users will usually Dragon Dance up until they know you are in KO range for Outrage, but often, many will panic and immediately attack you in which case you can recover off most of the damage and then wear them down.</p>

    <p>Anything that can Toxic Lileep is also a pretty effective counter. The good news is that Toxic is fairly rare in Little Cup, along with the use of Toxic Spikes, so this is usually a minor threat; it is possible however.</p>

    <p>Lastly, critical hits are the bane of Lileep. It may sound silly, but often if a Lileep gets set up with 3 Stockpiles and a Swords Dance, it usually spells doom for your opponent unless that 6% chance saves them.</p>
  2. Namso

    Namso
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    Heh, I was going to write up that set you have there. Seems like you beat me to it.

    I'd like to suggest an alternative EV spread though. I've used 228 HP / 140 Defense / 140 Special Defense @ Impish with some excellent success. You reach, respectively, 26 / 17 / 17 stats. That means you have equal defenses, so if you somehow manage to lose your sandstorm from a Rain Dance team or Snover, Lileep can still effectively take hits on the special side, as well as the physical side.

    I really, really like this set. :D

    EDIT: Haha, they were 17. My mistake!
  3. matty

    matty I did stuff along time ago
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    Ya and most of the credit should go to you Fuzz since you were the first one running the set for a long time. I started running it on my SS team after you swept me with it a few times.

    The first thing I want to point out is that you have 26 / 17 / 17 in each stat, not 14s.

    As for the EV spread, I went with more Defense because I always felt that in order to sweep you had to have Sand no matter what, and thus you could skimp on the SpDef EVs because of the Rock boost. You are still losing either way if a Rain Dance or Hail stops your sand most likely (Blizzard from Snover is a OHKO and Hydro Pump with Rain is most likely a OHKO but I would need to do damage calcs). If you did run that spread then you would end up with 25 in Sp Def vs 24 Sp Def and 17 Def vs 18 Def. Since you have so much Sp Def, I feel like that extra stat point might as well go to Def.
  4. macle

    macle ribbit
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    Little Cup Co-Leader

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  5. Namso

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    Well, it's up to you if you want to use the spread I suggested or not. However, you can always mention that alternative EV spread in the [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS].

    I also forgot to mention this other Lileep set I've had with great success.

    Lileep (M) @ Oran Berry
    Ability: Suction Cups
    EVs: 228 HP/36 SAtk/220 SDef
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Energy Ball
    - Earth Power
    - Ancientpower

    Lileep makes an amazing Pokemon in the lead position. It can beat a ton of other common Pokemon in the lead slot, such as Omanyte, Kabuto, Chimchar, Aipom, Meowth, Phanpy, and Houndour. With its great bulk, it can proceed to set up its own Stealth Rock too. I haven't really come up with a workable EV spread so far, but the one I have been using gives me a slight chance to survive Snover's Blizzard, as well as taking Houndour's Overheat with ease. Also, that special bulk helps immensely against Ice Beam users, particularly Mantyke.

    I'll get back to you once I find out a good overall spread. :P
  6. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    [SET]
    name: Uh Oh
    move 1: Stockpile
    move 2: Swords Dance
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Seed Bomb
    item: Oran Berry
    Ability: Suction Cups
    EVs: 228 HP / 220 Def / 60 SpD
    Nature: Impish

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>One of the most despised sets in Little Cup for its ability to turn a “won” match into a quick loss. The set is simple and fairly easy to set up; however, it will require sandstorm to be in effect. Switch Lileep in near the end of a match when most Pokemon are weakened and begin to Stockpile up. With your bulky EV spread you are reaching 26 HP, 18 Def, and 24 SpD under sandstorm before you even begin to Stockpile up. Stockpile and Recover are necessary to maintain maximum health (also remember that you have an Oran Berry, which is basically like a free Recover). All the while sandstorm should be whittling down the opposing Pokemon's health. In the end you are aiming to get 3 Stockpiles and at least one Swords Dance in before you starting attacking.</p>

    <p>Oftentimes you will find that unless the Pokemon either has STAB Ice-, Fighting-, or Bug-type attacks, they aren’t going to take you down. Their only hope is a lucky critical hit. After that, sweep with Seed Bomb, which reaches 20 Attack after a Swords Dance. If you're feeling lucky, you can Swords Dance even more if you feel like you need the extra power.</p>

    [Team Options]
    <p>For starters, you will need Hippopotas for sandstorm since the boost in Special Defense is key. Aside from that, any entry hazards are nice to remove any annoying Focus Sash Pokemon. You’ll also want your team to soften up your opponent before you attempt to sweep with Lileep since it often can take 50% away and dislikes extra turns that could end up being critical hits.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Lileep has some other interesting options. Curse cuts down on the set-up time, but leaves you more open to special attacks. However, you wouldn’t need to run Swords Dance, which allows you to run another attacking move like Rock Slide alongside Seed Bomb. If you choose to run Curse, you should run a 228 HP / 220 SpD / 60 Def EV spread with a Careful nature. You can also possibly add Amnesia to the mix which would allow you to get as many boosts as you wanted instead of the normal cap of three that Stockpile has.</p>

    <p> It is also possible to run a stall set that uses Toxic and Flash or Substitute instead of Swords Dance; however, you might as well set up Lileep if you can stall.</p>

    [Counters]
    <p>The #1 counter to Lileep is Snover. It not only stops sandstorm but it can OHKO with a STAB Blizzard. You will want to get rid of it and have sandstorm present before you set up Lileep. Otherwise it will switch in all day on you and make your life miserable.</p>

    <p> Surprisingly, Dratini and Bagon are fairly decent counters to Lileep because of their ability to Dragon Dance in the face of Lileep while taking minimal damage even from a Swords Dance Seed Bomb. Smart Dratini users will usually Dragon Dance up until they know you are in KO range of Outrage, but oftentimes, many will panic and immediately attack you in which case you can recover off most of the damage and then wear them down.</p>

    <p>Anything that can Toxic Lileep is also a pretty effective counter. The good news is that Toxic is fairly rare in Little Cup, along with the use of Toxic Spikes, so this is usually a minor threat; it is possible, however</p>

    <p>Lastly, critical hits are the bane of Lileep. It may sound silly, but oftentimes if a Lileep gets set up with 3 Stockpiles and a Swords Dance, it usually spells doom for your opponent unless that 6% chance saves them.</p>
  7. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Also, you should probably change the set name to something other than 'Uh-Oh'. =0 It's fitting, I understand, but... err... you know.

    ...or is that considered acceptable here? I don't really know. -.-' Just a suggestion then, I guess. (if nothing else, a set name like 'Sandstorm Sweeper' or something would make it less vague and easier to understand....?)
  8. matty

    matty I did stuff along time ago
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    Alright well I went ahead with all the suggestions and grammar edits.

    I've also added the Lead set after discussing it with Fuzznip. I'll go test it today when I have a chance
  9. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    Nobody reads edited posts anymore (unfortunately), and I saw that you added the lead set, so I figured I would edit it for you...

    [SET]
    name: Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Energy Ball / Giga Drain
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Ancientpower / Hidden Power Rock
    item: Oran Berry
    Ability: Suction Cups
    EVs: 228 HP / 36 SpA / 220 SpD
    Nature: Calm

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Lileep makes a great lead due its ability to beat a lot of the common leads in Little Cup and its general bulk to take a lot of hits. Many of the common leads in Little Cup include Kabuto, Omastar, Phanphy, Chimchar, Aipom, Meowth and Houndour, many of whom Lileep can easily manage. Stealth Rock is a no-brainer move that is usually set up, barring Taunt leads like Aipom and Meowth. Energy Ball is a nice STAB move that hits Kabuto, Omanyte, and Phanphy for significant damage. Earth Power hits Chimchar and Houndour for super effective damage and breaks their Focus Sashes. Ancientpower is a strong STAB move that hits Flying Pokemon like Mantyke for significant damage.</p>

    <p>The novelty in the set lies in that fact that nothing can really OHKO Lileep except for a Snover's Blizzard. 228 HP and 220 Special Defense EVs allow it to survive a Houndour's and Chimchar's Overheat, activating Oran Berry. The extra EVs are put into Special Attack to give a little extra power.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>You can alternatively use Giga Drain instead of Energy Ball which sacrifices power for the ability to heal a little bit, as it still OHKOes Kabuto and Omanyte, and takes a significant chunk from Phanphy. Hidden Power Rock is also another option that gives you 10 more power than Ancientpower. However, Ancientpower's ability to boost all stats by +1 10% of the time is usually more helpful than the power boost of Hidden Power Rock.</p>

    Also, from a grammatical standpoint the first set's name needs to be "Sandstorm Sweeper", not "Sand Storm Sweeper". ;)
  10. matty

    matty I did stuff along time ago
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    K edited up again. Sorry about all the stupid capitalization mistakes. I'll go read up what should and shouldn't be capitalizaed ;\
  11. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Needs overview section.

    Fixed a few things like "Ancientpower / Hidden Power [Rock]" to "AncientPower / Hidden Power Rock".
  12. matty

    matty I did stuff along time ago
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    Overview added. Final grammar checks anyone?
  13. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    Seeing as you just added the Overview I thought I would give it a quick check.

    [Overview]
    <p>Lileep is a curious Pokemon in the Little Cup tier because in order to fully use its sweeping potential, you need to pair it with certain Pokemon. The main component to any Lileep team is Hippoptas due to its ability to activate sandstorm, which raises Lileep's average Special Defense stat to one of the highest in the metagame. You also need a team that can soften up and remove problematic counters for Lileep so that it can safely stat up. Combine this with a decent HP stat, a strong Defense stat, a movepool that compliments its natural bulk and a helpful ability in Suction Cups, and Lileep has the potential to sweep through unprepared teams.</p>
  14. matty

    matty I did stuff along time ago
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    Editted up with everything. This should be complete and ready to go up
  15. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    you are missing a really good lileep set; Curse/Recover/Protect/Rock Slide with Leftovers. I'm hoping ete, Vader, buddha, and many others can back me up on how powerful this set can be, but it is almost indestructible in sandstorm once you are surviving super effective special attacks (some don't even 2hko) and after a curse, taking some of the strongest physical attacks.
  16. Dubulous

    Dubulous I look just like Buddy Holly.
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    If you have any questions, feel free to PM me either on here or on IRC.
  17. TPM

    TPM

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    I personally belive Lileep needs to be looked into more, because with such a large selection of moves to choose from I hardly believe that these two sets listed are the only ones that are viable.
  18. The 1 and Only Lady Gaga

    The 1 and Only Lady Gaga

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    Shouldn't Rock Slide at least be an option over Seed Bomb for the first set? I personally believe Rock attacks are better in mono-attacking sets due to better coverage, but I guess it should just be slashed as an option over Seed Bomb.
  19. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Mention Machop in Counters or something? It is bulky enough to take Seed Bombs and can hit hard and confuse with SE DynamicPunch.
  20. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

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    I think it should be noted that the lead set, surprisingly, doesnt counter Houndoor, as most of leadoor carry reversal. Since you use Lileep as a lead, sandstorm will probably be inactive, so Houndoor beats you with OverHeat+Sash+Rev.
  21. matty

    matty I did stuff along time ago
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    Harrro prz

    Gonna finish this after my stupid long break. I'm gonna add the few things people mentioned
  22. Nails

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    curse set with curse/recover/dual stabs is needed. outclasses stockpile set imo (though both are good, coverage is nice for essentially the same end result). i've also seen a decent croleep set with curse, but this is outclassed by recover/2 stabs because toxic is uncommon. wisp isn't uncommon though, so it probably deserves mention in oo or something.
  23. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    You need Additional Comments for the first set.

    Other Options should be Optional Changes.
  24. Rising_Dusk

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    This has been taken over by Oglemi here. Moved to L&O.

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