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Lilligant (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Chillarmy, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    <3

    [​IMG][​IMG]x2 (Eo, Fireburn) [​IMG]@Monocle x2 (Calm Pokemaster, jc104)

    [Overview]

    <p>While it may seem as though Lilligant is mostly outclassed as a sweeper, access to Quiver Dance, Sleep Powder, and Chlorophyll, as well as high Special Attack and Speed, allows Lilligant to differentiate itself from its fellow offensive Grass-types, particularly Venusaur. Don't overestimate Lilligant's potential, however, as its 70 / 75 / 75 defenses certainly aren't anything to write home about. Its offensive movepool is also ridiculously shallow - Lilligant literally gets nothing outside of Hidden Power and Dream Eater that can hit Pokemon that resist Grass-type attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Quiver Dance
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Sleep Powder
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Rock
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Modest / Timid
    ability: Chlorophyll
    EV: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With access to Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance, and blistering Speed thanks to Chlorophyll, Lilligant can be a formidable threat once its checks and counters have been taken care of. Its offensive stat is nothing to scoff at, as a base 110 Special Attack is sure to leave a dent in most specially bulky Pokemon, such as Jellicent and Eviolite Dusclops.</p>

    <p>Lilligant's movepool may be shallow, but it has a few useful offensive options, such as the newly improved Giga Drain. Thanks to the power boost, Giga Drain is almost as powerful as Energy Ball, doing considerable damage after a Quiver Dance while healing most, if not all, HP that Lilligant lost while setting up. Energy Ball is an alternative to Giga Drain, as it's slightly more powerful and comes with the added bonus of the occasional Special Defense drop. Petal Dance received a power boost as well, becoming just as powerful as Outrage in fact, making it very powerful after a Quiver Dance, but it is a lesser option due to locking Lilligant in on a single move with mediocre coverage.</p>

    <p>The item and nature choices are solely up to one's preferences for a sweeper. With a Modest nature, Lilligant can obtain its highest damage output possible while Speed tying with Adamant Lucario when not under sunlight. A Timid nature, however, is desirable if one decides to forgo the extra power in order to potentially give Lilligant setup fodder or prevent it from being outpaced and revenge killed before it gets the chance to sweep; given a Timid nature, Lilligant sits at a respectable 306 Speed stat, outpacing offensive threats such as max Speed Rotom-A and Adamant Haxorus, when not under harsh sunlight. If one wishes to run the bulkier route with Lilligant, then 116 EVs can be taken away from its Speed, and placed into its HP or either defensive stat for better survivability. The choice between Leftovers and Life Orb is debatable as well, but ultimately boils down to survivability versus power. Leftovers is recommended, as Lilligant will usually hit hard enough after a boost or two. However, running Life Orb is viable in order to maximize Lilligant's damage output while any recoil will be healed off with Giga Drain.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Unfortunately, Lilligant's coverage is extremely limited, so the Hidden Power type used should reflect which threats its team has covered. Hidden Power Fire is Lilligant's best bet for hitting most Steel-types before they can retaliate, as well as Grass-types. If Steel-types are of little concern, or if one is running Magnezone, Hidden Power Ice can be used in order to hit most Dragon-types for at least super effective damage while maintaining coverage on opposing Grass-types. Hidden Power Rock can be used as well in order to hit Volcarona switch-ins while maintaining coverage on Salamence, Dragonite, Abomasnow, and Gyarados. Finally, Hidden Power Ground prevents Lilligant from being completely walled by Heatran, but with the prevalence of Air Balloon variants, Lilligant will usually be required to attack Heatran with Giga Drain first, placing it at risk from to a powerful Fire Blast.</p>

    <p>Without many Quiver Dances under its belt, Lilligant is walled to death by Blissey and Eviolite Chansey. Lilligant's defenses also make it vulnerable to priority attacks from the likes of Conkeldurr, Mamoswine, and Scizor. For these reasons, Wobbuffet makes an excellent partner for this set; Wobbuffet can not only rid the field of pesky priority attacks, but can also remove special walls from play with the infamous Tickle + Pursuit strategy and give Lilligant multiple turns to set up with Encore. Forretress also works well as a partner for Lilligant due to its type synergy and access to a plethora of support moves, but it has to be wary of becoming setup fodder for some of the mentioned priority users.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With a fairly large support movepool, a defensive set is possible, but Lilligant will usually be outclassed by other defensive Grass-types. However, it's not a bad idea to include Leech Seed over Hidden Power to provide much-needed longevity or Aromatherapy over Sleep Powder to recover from status and support the team. Synthesis is a viable option with sun support, but it's difficult to fit on an offensive set. It's recommended to stay away from Solarbeam as while it may seem like a great option on paper with sun support, it can very easily spell Lilligant's doom due to opposing weather inducers such as Abomasnow and Tyranitar.</p>

    <p>A Lum Berry or Red Card can be used as the item of choice in order to potentially give Lilligant more boosts, but both are generally inferior to Leftovers. Teeter Dance can also be used to give Lilligant more chances to set up if Sleep Powder's accuracy is a bit displeasing, but confusion is much less reliable than sleep. A Choice Specs set can be used, but Lilligant's offensive movepool is borderline dry.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Because Lilligant lacks reliable coverage, special sponges such as Reuniclus, Blissey, Eviolite Chansey, and Latias can stop Lilligant with very little effort and retaliate with the appropriate move. Keep in mind, though, that without a reliable method of completely stopping Lilligant, such as Calm Mind, a status move, or Trick, the aforementioned Pokemon will be nothing more than setup fodder. With Liquid Ooze, access to Toxic Spikes, and STAB Poison-type attacks, Tentacruel makes for a very solid counter to Lilligant, but it has to watch out for Hidden Power Ground.</p>

    <p>Figuring out Lilligant's Hidden Power is incredibly helpful in countering it. Without Hidden Power Fire or Ground, most Steel-types will pose a large threat to Lilligant. If Hidden Power Ice isn't present, Hydreigon, Salamence, and Dragonite can either set up on, or quickly beat Lilligant with Fire Blast provided that another team member of one's team has already taken Sleep Powder. Without Hidden Power Rock, Volcarona has no problem switching into Lilligant's onslaught and setting up its own Quiver Dance.</p>

    <p>Priority users such as Conkeldurr and Mamoswine can prey on Lilligant's low Defense stat and score a revenge kill, but both have to look out for Sleep Powder and Giga Drain. If all else fails, however, getting rid of sunlight is very beneficial to countering Lilligant, as it allows for faster Pokemon, namely Choice Scarf users, to revenge it.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Lilligant needs all the Speed it can get via Chlorophyll, but Leaf Guard shouldn't be overlooked, as it allows Lilligant to set up on Blissey and Eviolite Chansey and gives Lilligant an immunity to Toxic Spikes under the sun.</p>
    ------
    EDIT: Ctrl + F ----> Garchomp

    Bwahahaha I saw that coming months in advance
  2. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    Skeleton's finished, writing this up, now. If anyone has any suggestions or changes that should be implemented to the OP, feel free to do so ^_^
  3. Baydren

    Baydren

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    I reckon you should mention its Dream World ability in Leaf Guard, if only to mention its inferiority when compared to Cholorophyll.

    Otherwise, though, it's really good: It makes me want to start using Doredia.
  4. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    "Leaf Guard shouldn't be overlooked, however, as it allows Doredia to setup on Blissey and Evolution Stone Chansey (Giga Drain at +6 2HKOes both)."

    ...? I guess a mention of how it makes Doredia basically immune to Toxic Spikes under sun is in order? Thanks btw
  5. Marioman07

    Marioman07

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    I use a doredia in my sun team, two variations. One is a copy of the one you listed but with Aromatherapy over Sleep Powder. The 2nd is a custom creation which I use with varying success:

    Doredia @ lefties
    Chlorophyll
    80HP/252 Def/176 Sp.Atk
    Bold nature
    -Butterfly Dance
    -Aromatherapy/Giga Drain
    -SolarBeam/Giga Drain
    -Hidden Power Fire
    The EVs are customized so that Doredia can live 4 Seismic Tosses from blissey, with 301 hp. Max Defense to help take physical hits better, and the rest are dumped into Sp.Attack. Butterfly dance is on here so it can speed itself up, boost it's special defense, and dish out more damage with solar beam/Giga Drain/Hidden Power Fire. Aromatherapy is on here so Doredia can be used as a cleric, but can be changed for Giga Drain for HP gain. Solar Beam because it's powerful and Doredia's best attacking option in the sun, but it too can be substituted for Giga Drain if you wish to maintain Aromatherapy. Hidden Power Fire is for coverage and is boosted in the sun. Just my two cents, hopefully you'll consider it's usefulness ;)
  6. BubaOReally?

    BubaOReally?

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    Dream world Ability?
  7. Marioman07

    Marioman07

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    If you look at the couple of posts above, it says that Leaf Guard (it's DW ability) pales in comparison to Chlorophyll.
  8. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    Hm, with Drought Ninetails and Drizzle Politoed allowed on the PO ladder, I assumed that a DW section wasn't needed anymore. I'll go ahead and add that to the OP

    Please read the entire OP, I mentioned Aromatherapy > Sleep Powder in OC. I honestly don't see the point in making Doredia a conservative booster using its meh defenses; furthermore, what's the point of living through 3 of Blissey's Seismic Tosses when Doredia can just Sleep Powder > Giga Drain it?
  9. Adam Lambert

    Adam Lambert

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    On the set, could you slash Energy Ball over Giga Drain? I believe it would prove to be far more helpful due to having a chance to lower SpD of the target, whilst being more powerful and having more PP than Giga Drain, its mode of STAB. If you really want a mode of recovery other than Leftovers recovery, slash Leech Seed with Sleep Powder.
  10. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    Done; 5 BP isn't really worth losing the HP gain, so Giga Drain remains as the primary option (Energy Ball is much more reliable than Petal Dance, though). Also, they have the same PP this gen.
  11. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    *Bump*
    This is written
  12. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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  13. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
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    Petal Dance is really unappealing despite its base power considering a) its trapping effect and b) the confusion caused afterward. It should be de-slashed. Looks fine otherwise, and assuming you make this change:

    QC Approved 2/2
  14. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    I know it's been approved already but I think you should give mention to the improved Petal Dance, now with 120 base power!
  15. GameMaster0000

    GameMaster0000

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    Also, you can use it with own tempo to cancel confusion, but yes...Chlorophyll outclass it.
  16. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    Minor nitpick, I think you forgot to finish the sentence. Otherwise, this is a solid analysis. Remember, proofread your analysis several times, and try edit any grammatical errorrs, if any, before opening up your analysis for GP checks.
  17. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    Also, this:
    Oh yeah, I rearranged a few sentences so Doredia's best offensive options would be in order from most useful to least (Giga Drain > Energy Ball > Petal Dance), and meant to delete that last part. It's fixed, now =)

    Anyway, thanks for QC approvals and comments so far!
  18. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    Bumping this so it doesn't die / grammar checks / gp approvals. I haven't changed any of the Japanese names to their English counterparts yet, but it's nothing that a simple ctrl + F -> replace with " " won't fix ^_^
  19. Dummy007

    Dummy007

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    Changes in red.
    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>While it may seem as though Doredia is mostly outclassed as a sweeper, access to Butterfly Dance, Sleep Powder, and Chlorophyll, as well as higher Special Attack and Speed stats, allow Doredia to differentiate herself from her fellow (offensive) Grass-types, particularly Venusaur. Don't overestimate Doredia's potential, however, as her 70 / 75 /(add space)75 defenses certainly aren't anything to write home about (though(remove comma) they do allow Doredia to take the occasional priority attack and set up on weak special attacks). Her offensive movepool is also ridiculously shallow - Doredia literally gets nothing outside of Hidden Power and Dream Eater that can hit types that resist Grass.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Butterfly Dance
    move 1: Butterfly Dance
    move 2: Sleep Powder
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Ground
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Modest / Timid
    ability: Chlorophyll
    EV: 252 SpA / 4 SDef / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With access to Sleep Powder, Butterfly Dance, and blistering speed thanks to Chlorophyll, Doredia can be a formidable threat once her checks and counters have been taken care of. Her offensive stat is nothing to scoff at, (remove either) as a base 110 Special Attack is sure to leave a dent in most specially bulky Pokemon, such as Burungeru and Evolution Stone Dusclops.</p>

    <p>Doredia's movepool may be shallow, but she has a few useful offensive options, such as the newly improved Giga Drain. Thanks to the power boost, Giga Drain is almost as powerful as Energy Ball, doing considerable damage after a Butterfly Dance while healing (removed "off") most, if not all, HP that Doredia loses while setting up. Energy Ball is an alternative to Giga Drain, as it's slightly more powerful and comes with the added bonus of the occasional Special Defense drop. Petal Dance received a power boost as well, becoming just as powerful as Outrage in fact, making it very powerful after a Butterfly Dance, but it is a lesser option due to locking Doredia in on a single move with mediocre coverage.</p>

    <p>The item and nature choices are solely up to one's preferences in a sweeper. With a Modest nature, Doredia can gain its highest damage output possible while speed tying with everything up to and including Adamant Lucario when not under sunlight. A Timid nature, however, is desirable if one decides to forgo the extra power in order to potentially give Doredia setup fodder or prevent it from being outpaced and revenged before it gets the chance to sweep; given a Timid nature and sun support, Doredia caps off at an insane 612 Speed before a boost, beating even Timid Choice Scarf Borotorosu. The choice between Leftovers and Life Orb is debatable as well (removed comma) but ultimately boils down to survivability vs. power. Leftovers is recommended, as Doredia will usually hit hard enough after a boost or two. However, running a Life Orb is viable in order to maximize Doredia's damage output while healing off any recoil with Giga Drain.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Unfortunately, Doredia's coverage is extremely limited, so her Hidden Power type should reflect which threats one's team has covered. Hidden Power Fire is Doredia's best option against Steel-types (Nattorei in particular (removed comma and "who") is OHKOed by a +1 Hidden Power Fire under the sun), as well as Grass-types. If Steel-types are of little concern, or if one is running Magnezone, Hidden Power Ice can be used in order to hit most Dragons for at least super effective damage while maintaining coverage on opposing Grass-types. Finally, Hidden Power Ground prevents Doredia from being completely walled by Heatran and Shanderra given neither holds a Balloon.</p>

    <p>Without many Butterfly Dances under her belt, Doredia is walled to death by Blissey and Evolution Stone Chansey. Doredia's defenses also make her prone to priority attacks from the likes of Roobushin, Mamoswine, and Scizor. For these reasons, Wobbuffet makes an excellent partner for this set; Wobbuffet can not only rid the field of pesky priority attacks, but can also remove special walls from play with the infamous Tickle + Pursuit strategy and give Doredia multiple turns to set up with Encore. Forretress also works well as a (removed "nice") partner for Doredia due to its type synergy and access to a plethora of support moves, but it has to beware of becoming setup fodder for some of the mentioned priority users.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>As Chlorophyll is one of Doredia's biggest selling points, allowing her to set up without worry of being outpaced outside of priority, (removed "so") sun support from Ninetales is a given. While it may seem odd to run both rain and sun on the same team, one should look into using Politoed as a partner for Doredia. Not only can Politoed remove Doredia's crippling weakness to Fire, but it can also give Doredia an open chance to sweep with Perish Song, Encore, and Hypnosis support or by removing quite a few of Doredia's counters from play with its powerful Choice Specs Hydro Pump.</p>

    <p>Entry hazard support, specifically Toxic Spikes, is very beneficial to Doredia's sweep, as it can help wear down a lot of her checks, from Blissey to Birijion. Forretress or Tentacruel can perform this task well, and both can remove Toxic Spikes from Doredia's side of the field, lengthening the amount of time that Doredia can (removed "use for a") sweep.</p>

    <p>As mentioned numerous times before, Encore support is extremely helpful to Doredia when attempting a sweep, making Wobbuffet and Erufuun incredibly useful partners. Wobbuffet can remove pesky priority users and walls from play with very little trouble while Erufuun can incapacitate most defensive Pokemon and give Doredia some extra survivability with Leech Seed; Erufuun is also capable of running U-turn in order to get Doredia in safely. Having a Magnezone in the shadows helps a lot if one's team has trouble with Scizor and Nattorei.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>With a fairly large support movepool, a defensive set is possible, but Doredia will usually be outclassed by other defensive Grass-types. However, it's not a bad idea to include Leech Seed or Aromatherapy on the Butterfly Dance set over Hidden Power or Sleep Power,respectively, in order to maintain a high Speed stat while giving Doredia some much-needed longevity. Synthesis is a viable option with sun support, but it's difficult to fit on an offensive set.</p>

    <p>A Lum Berry or Red Card can be used as the item of choice in order to potentially give Doredia more boosts, but both are generally inferior to Sleep Powder. Teeter Dance can also be used to give Doredia more chances to set up if Sleep Powder's accuracy is a bit displeasing, but Teeter Dance is much less reliable. A Choice Specs set can be used, but Doredia's offensive movepool is borderline dry.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Because Doredia lacks reliable coverage, obligatory special sponges such as Rankurusu, Blissey, Evolution Stone Chansey, and Latias can stop Doredia with very little effort and retaliate with the appropriate move. Keep in mind, though, that without a reliable method of completely stopping Doredia, such as Calm Mind, a status move, or Trick, the aforementioned Pokemon will be nothing more than fodder. With Liquid Ooze, access to Toxic Spikes, and STAB Poison-type attacks, Tentacruel makes for a very solid counter to Doredia, but it has to watch out for Hidden Power Ground.</p>

    <p>Figuring out Doredia's Hidden Power is incredibly helpful in countering it. Without Hidden Power Fire or Ground, most Steel-types will pose a large threat to Doredia. If Hidden Power Ice isn't present, Sazandora, Salamence, and Dragonite can either set (space) up on, or quickly beat Doredia with Fire Blast given that another member of one's team has already taken Sleep Powder. </p>

    <p>Priority users such as Roobushin and Mamoswine can prey on Doredia's low defense stat and score a revenge kill, but both have to look out for Sleep Powder or Giga Drain. If all else fails, however, getting rid of sunlight is very beneficial to countering Doredia, as it allows for faster Pokemon, namely Choice Scarfers, to revenge her.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>While Doredia needs all the speed it can get from Chlorophyll, Leaf Guard shouldn't be overlooked, as it allows Doredia to set (space) up on Blissey and Evolution Stone Chansey (Modest Life Orb Giga Drain at +6 2HKOes both) and basically gives Doredia an immunity to Toxic Spikes under the sun.</p>[/QUOTE]


    Nice writeup! I'll have to try this thing sometime.
  20. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    Changes made, thanks!
  21. Marvin

    Marvin

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    I think you should mention a bulkier Doredia's set as she's quite capable of pullin it out, taking in account that she can hit 406 speed with 0 speed EV and Iv's under the sun, I mean you are still gonna be "dancing" so after one butterfly dance you are gonna be hitting 609 I think (I'm not quite sure about this number)....

    You never mention solar beam...and we all now Doredia best selling point is Chlorophyll, so I think they both work great...
    And also I think Healing Wish should get a mention as a last resort, We all know she is quite predictabel and frail so why not make her almost gurantee annihilation woth it?

    Also you could always leech seed an enemy sponge poke and heal wish to something like sword dance speed boost blaziken, that way you could get at least one boost for sure...
  22. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
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    Why would you be running 0 Speed IVs? (or, for that matter, 0 Speed EVs)
  23. Marvin

    Marvin

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    It was just to remark how fast she can be with little effort....
  24. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    Doredia is outclassed by most Grass-types when running a support set, and there really aren't that many hits that she needs to [can] take when running Butterfly Dance. Derp, I forgot about giving a mention to Solarbeam in OC, so I'll go ahead and edit that in.
  25. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
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    You might want to list Volcarona as a counter, as it 4x resists grass and outspeeds/sets up on Doredia.

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