Lilligant Discussion

[November Blue]

Lilligant is really cute. Its also an amazing sweeper in RU. Yay!

This flowery muse has several things going for it. It's stats are deceptively good, for example. Base 110 Special Attack and base 90 Speed are pretty well suited for a special sweeper. Going by base Special Attack, Lilligant is stronger than Slowking, Galvantula, Rotom-A, ect. Aside from the heavy hitters such as PoryZ and Moltres, Lilligant is pretty much the strongest in the tier. There are others like Shell Smash Omastar and... I dunno, I'm looking through the usage stats for examples, but RU really is a tier full of physically offensive pokes.

Quiver Dance + Sleep Powder + Giga Drain is a potent combination, and Lilligant's bread and butter. There aren't that many bulky waters for it to set up on, but there are some bulky grasses, such as Tangrowth and Ferroseed, plus weaker defensive pokes like Claydol. The threat of Sleep Powder easily forces switches, and an extra turn from a sleeping opponent is sometimes all it needs to sweep.

The coverage move is what surprised me though. I thought that HP Fire was standard for stuff like Ferroseed and Cryogonal, but I've just read in the Q&A thread that HP Rock is the standard. Ferroseed does seem to have waned in usage somewhat, HP Rock still covers Cryogonal, and Moltres walls Grass + Fire. Maybe HP Rock is a remnant of the Sableye meta, used to KO the myriad Fire-types chasing after the ghost?

There's a bulky set in the analysis, written by Jubilee. Is Lilligant bulky enough to set up in such an offensively orientated meta? Have you used the set?

Also, does lilligant influence metagame trends noticeably? Could it be the reason that bulky waters are less common?

Discuss!

 

[BurningMan]

I have seen some Lilligant and i think with some support it can be quite a monster Quiver Dance is a fantastic set-up move and Lilligant got definitely the stats to fully abuse it.
The biggest drawback is propably that there is no perfect Hidden Power type for her, but rock seems to be solid in the current metagame given the few steel types in RU (though Aggron seems to be rising), but there is still alot of stuff that resists grass and can take a neutral hidden power, that entry hazards are even more of a necessity for it compared to other sweepers.
However Sleep Powder is a godsend for her, because with her good speed and OK bulk it can almost always send at least one Pokemon to sleep and pull her weight on a team, even if she doesn't manage to pull of a sweep.

 

[Twannes]

yh hp rock is the definite standard. i wrote sth about it in the Round 2 voring threat:

Hide

Ok I have seen enough posts about Lilligant and its HP type. People are saying to use Fire or Rock. So why not compare them right here right now?

So let's say we use Hp Fire. The combo Grass/Fire is resited by Fire and Dragon. Dragon isn't common at all, but Fire definitely is! There are at least 5 common Fire type pokemon in the RU tier which I can think of right now. Let's start with the most obvious one: Entei. Entei can revenge you with Espeed if needed, or just laugh at your attacks and OHKO with Flare Blitz. Sure you need to have something asleep, but what is the first thing you send in on Lilligant? A sleepfodder or a Vital Spirit/Insomnia pokemon! Next pokemon: Moltres. Moltres quadrouple resists Grass, resists Fire and has a nice SpDef to back it up. Do I need to say more? Or do you want to hear that Moltres can Toxicstall, kill you with repeated STAB Fire Blasts or Air Slashes? Sure you want to beat Bouffalant but we forgot something there: he isn't a grass type, so Hp fire and Rock will deal the same amount of damage.

I would say use HP Rock. Steel is the only thing resisting it and how odd is it that Steels are really rare in the RU tier. The only few steel types who actually resist your attacks are also limited, because of there being many Steel/Rock or Steel/Ground types. Also I saw someone point out Durant, but it doesn't resist Rock due to the fact that Rock is Super Effective against Bug and it gets destroyed by HP Rock anyway (91.8% - 108.2% from +1 HP Rock so OHKO after SR). This leaves you with Ferroseed, Klingklang and Magneton who resist both Grass and Rock. Klingklang is so uncommon it isn't even funny, Magneton only can Thunder-Wave you to stop you and how can you have troubles with Ferroseed? It can't Leech Seed you and T-wave seems to be uncommon as well (even though it is a great move). So if we delete those as well from our list, what do we have left? As good as nothing.

So again, in my opinion, Hp Rock is the better option . The hits most of the common RU pokemon for at least neutral damage. SapSippers are annoying though, but you would only change the Hidden Power type to Fire for Sawsbuck, who is pretty frail anyway, as Bouffalant is just plain Normal type. Rock, on the other hand, gets better coverage all around because of only Ferroseed being the common pokemon to tank the hits.

(Also, I could be horribly mistaken, but don't be rough with trying to correct that. I'm just trying to make my point here, so please just tell me what I'm doing wrong instead of making insults.)
(Lol disclaimer and lol holy crap 487 words :D )

Edit: CRAP i forgot grass types >_<
Double Edit: oh nvm grass does not resist Rock.

 

[Lawrence III]

I've used Lilligant quite a bit on PS and she's done lots of work for me as a late game sweeper. The only move that differentiates from the same set is Petal Dance vs. Giga Drain. With Own Tempo she won't get confused, but the only drawback is that she gets locked into a that move. T_T I do have to say that HP rock gives her better coverage for her weaknesses to the growing usage of Moltres and ever since Magmortar moved to RU.