InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
You don't need to clutter up the thread like this, especially when he said that he doesn't care that he may have messed up
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Linked
- Thread starter Hack_Guy
- Start date
Updated tier changes.
Amoonguss to from A- to A.
It's amazing at the moment. Spore is very valuable and Assault Vest sets makes it switch into Special Attacks like nothing. Clear Smog keeps opponent from boosting.
Mega Venusaur from A to B+.
I think it's kinda outclassed by Amoonguss atm. It deals with neutral hits better, but I don't see any use besides that.
Mega Slowbro from B to B+.
The Physical bulk is very valuable for tanking hits, especially when it doesn't get 2HKO'd by Band Talon.
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 166-198 (42.1 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Mega Sableye from C to B-.
I'm still not convinced it's B+ material but it has more uses than C rank pokes at least.
Things need to be ranked.
Tornadus T
Diggersby
Amoonguss to from A- to A.
It's amazing at the moment. Spore is very valuable and Assault Vest sets makes it switch into Special Attacks like nothing. Clear Smog keeps opponent from boosting.
Mega Venusaur from A to B+.
I think it's kinda outclassed by Amoonguss atm. It deals with neutral hits better, but I don't see any use besides that.
Mega Slowbro from B to B+.
The Physical bulk is very valuable for tanking hits, especially when it doesn't get 2HKO'd by Band Talon.
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 166-198 (42.1 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Mega Sableye from C to B-.
I'm still not convinced it's B+ material but it has more uses than C rank pokes at least.
Things need to be ranked.
Tornadus T
Diggersby
ScorrchingTheaph
nO u
Here is a very gimmicky suicide set. I haven't tested it too much, but the concept works perfectly when used right.
Staravia-Mega (Staraptor) @ Choice Scarf/Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate/Reckless
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe (all you need is speed)
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Final Gambit
- U-turn
- [filler]
Basically, suicide kill almost any pokemon using endeavor + final gambit.
Weaknesses: Being outsped and OHKO'ed with scarf, or outsped and 2HKO'ed with sash makes this a complete waste. Paralysis will cripple this set, unless you get hax and move with both attacks. Rough skin/iron barbs/rock helmet allows the opponent to survive with a sliver of HP, but can easily be revenge killed. Rocks will hurt, but will be fine if you outspeed. Substitute cripples this set completely. Ghost types are immune.
Usage: Solid Clefable killer, unless Rocky helmet, where T-flame or something gets an easy kill (sash gives a somewhat safe switch-in). Decent Tail-Glow + Attack Manaphy counter, (depends on manaphy's stats and possible speed tie). Possible victini and jirachi counter, again depending on stats and possible speed tie. Completely destroys almost any wall pokemon without sub. Even if they try to switch, unless it's ghost type, it's most likely dead.
Staravia-Mega (Staraptor) @ Choice Scarf/Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate/Reckless
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe (all you need is speed)
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Final Gambit
- U-turn
- [filler]
Basically, suicide kill almost any pokemon using endeavor + final gambit.
Weaknesses: Being outsped and OHKO'ed with scarf, or outsped and 2HKO'ed with sash makes this a complete waste. Paralysis will cripple this set, unless you get hax and move with both attacks. Rough skin/iron barbs/rock helmet allows the opponent to survive with a sliver of HP, but can easily be revenge killed. Rocks will hurt, but will be fine if you outspeed. Substitute cripples this set completely. Ghost types are immune.
Usage: Solid Clefable killer, unless Rocky helmet, where T-flame or something gets an easy kill (sash gives a somewhat safe switch-in). Decent Tail-Glow + Attack Manaphy counter, (depends on manaphy's stats and possible speed tie). Possible victini and jirachi counter, again depending on stats and possible speed tie. Completely destroys almost any wall pokemon without sub. Even if they try to switch, unless it's ghost type, it's most likely dead.
I'm working on a sun team with a very nice twist that sounds pretty sweet in theory, but I need help with one thing.
As a Chlorophyll sweeper which is better; Venusaur or Victreebel.
Venusaur is usually used over Victreebel due to the extra bulk making Growth easy to set up, but in a link Victreebel can set up Growth and attack in the same turn so the bulk isn't that big a deal when setting up. So I'm thinking Victreebel may be stronger thanks to its access to Weather Ball rather than HP Fire. Although Venu does have 10 extra speed (80>70).
So my questions are which is better. Extra bulk or far stronger Fire coverage. Also does Venusaur out speed anything important that Victreebel can't?
Or am I completely over looking some other Chlorophyll sweeper which becomes extremely good in this meta?
As a Chlorophyll sweeper which is better; Venusaur or Victreebel.
Venusaur is usually used over Victreebel due to the extra bulk making Growth easy to set up, but in a link Victreebel can set up Growth and attack in the same turn so the bulk isn't that big a deal when setting up. So I'm thinking Victreebel may be stronger thanks to its access to Weather Ball rather than HP Fire. Although Venu does have 10 extra speed (80>70).
So my questions are which is better. Extra bulk or far stronger Fire coverage. Also does Venusaur out speed anything important that Victreebel can't?
Or am I completely over looking some other Chlorophyll sweeper which becomes extremely good in this meta?
I haven't used Sun teams before, but for Speed tiering, I can help you.
Victreebel has 70 base Speed, so
Max Speed neutral Nature: 239
In Sun = 478
Max Speed with +Speed Nature: 262
In Sun = 524
Venusaur has 80 base Speed, so
Max Speed neutral Nature: 259
In Sun = 518
Mac Speed with +Speed: 284
In Sun = 568
Max Speed of pokes with base 100 Speed (Jirachi, Manaphy, Victini): 328
So with Scarf: 492
Max Speed of pokes with base 108 Speed (Infernape, Terrakion): 346
So with Scarf: 519
Max Speed of Latios: 350
So with Scarf: 525
Max Speed of Ambipom: 361
So with Scarf: 541
So Victreebel with neutral Speed Nature fails to outspeed base 100 Scarfers with +Speed Nature, because 492>478. It has to run +Speed Nature to outspeed it. Also Scarf Latios outspeeds Victreebel in the sun by 1 point, even if you run +Speed nature, because 525>524.
Venusaur outspeeds all of the Scarf pokes above with +Speed Nature, but fails to outspeed Scarf Infernape, Terrakion and Latios if you run neutral Speed Nature (Scarf 108 Speed outspeeds you by 1 point).
So does Venusaur outspeed anything that Victreebel can't? Yes. But Victreebel has 110 base Attack, same Special Attack but better coverage due to Weather Ball. Because Victreebel can't outspeed base 100 Scarf, it would run +Speed Nature normally, while Venusaur can run +Attack or +Special Attack Nature if you're fine with Scarf Infernape or Scarf Latios outspeed you. If you want to outspeed Scarf Latios or Scarf Ambipom, you would run Max Speed Venusaur with +Speed Nature, but if you're fine Scarf Latios or Ambipom outspeed you, Victreebel is enough. Also, Victreebel can use Sucker Punch for Scarf Latios.
So it's up to you to decide which is more important. Victreebel with Sucker Punch (which is useful for Latios), Wheater Ball and 110 Base Attack or outspeeding Scarf Latios and Scarf Ambipom in exchange for 80 Attack.
To summarize:
Victreebel
Pros:
1. Better Attack stats.
2. Sucker Punch lets you hit Scarf Latios, Scarf Ambipom and Talonflame.
3. Weather Ball.
Cons:
1. Less Bulky.
2. Have to run Sucker Punch just for Latios, Ambipom and Talonflame, which limits your coverage (normally Sucker Punch is useless in already fast pokes).
3. Needs to run +Speed Nature to outspeed Scarf pokes with base 100 Speed.
Venusaur
Pros:
1. Outspeed Latios and Ambipom.
2. Bulkier.
3. Doesn't have to run +Speed Nature to outspeed Scarf base 100 pokes, which grants you extra power.
Cons:
1. Don't have priority for Talonflame.
2. No Weather Ball.
3. No Teeter Dance and Encore for trolling.
Edit: Venusaur actually have Weather Ball from event, but it's illegal with Chlorophyll. If not, Venusaur would be a superior choice to Victreebel.
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Slayer95 , there appears to be a bug when it comes to choosing leads atm (see this match: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linkedubers-2051447)
If you don't mind, can you fix it? thanks a lot in advance!
If you don't mind, can you fix it? thanks a lot in advance!
ScorrchingTheaph
nO u
Have another set, it's for Victini
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe (atk and spa can be changed to your likings)
Hasty Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Fusion Flare
- U-turn
- [Filler]
Most Victini's are V-Create+U-turn, but this set takes advantage of Victini's capability of learning both Fusion moves. When used after the other, the second move's base power doubles, meaning Fusion Flare actually has 200 base power + STAB (I have no idea why someone would go for a weak v-create + u-turn compared to this). Scarf + max speed outspeeds many pokemon, allowing Victini to easily sweep when its threats are gone. Electric and fire also happen to get good coverage over commonly used pokemon in this meta. Scarfed U-turn provides a good pivot without loosing momentum.
Main threats: Heatran, Tflame, Dragonite, Clefable, Gliscor if it has time to set up sub.
Replays of epic sweeping (hax included):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2044857 Lots of hax. Lots.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2045953
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2053194 Suicide Staraptor killing wall, allowing for clean sweep.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2053846
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe (atk and spa can be changed to your likings)
Hasty Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Fusion Flare
- U-turn
- [Filler]
Most Victini's are V-Create+U-turn, but this set takes advantage of Victini's capability of learning both Fusion moves. When used after the other, the second move's base power doubles, meaning Fusion Flare actually has 200 base power + STAB (I have no idea why someone would go for a weak v-create + u-turn compared to this). Scarf + max speed outspeeds many pokemon, allowing Victini to easily sweep when its threats are gone. Electric and fire also happen to get good coverage over commonly used pokemon in this meta. Scarfed U-turn provides a good pivot without loosing momentum.
Main threats: Heatran, Tflame, Dragonite, Clefable, Gliscor if it has time to set up sub.
Replays of epic sweeping (hax included):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2044857 Lots of hax. Lots.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2045953
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2053194 Suicide Staraptor killing wall, allowing for clean sweep.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2053846
My god. That is the most amazing thing ever. Genius. Rank it somewhere high, that's a very good set.Have another set, it's for Victini
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe (atk and spa can be changed to your likings)
Hasty Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Fusion Flare
- U-turn
- [Filler]
Most Victini's are V-Create+U-turn, but this set takes advantage of Victini's capability of learning both Fusion moves. When used after the other, the second move's base power doubles, meaning Fusion Flare actually has 200 base power + STAB (I have no idea why someone would go for a weak v-create + u-turn compared to this). Scarf + max speed outspeeds many pokemon, allowing Victini to easily sweep when its threats are gone. Electric and fire also happen to get good coverage over commonly used pokemon in this meta. Scarfed U-turn provides a good pivot without loosing momentum.
Main threats: Heatran, Tflame, Dragonite, Clefable, Gliscor if it has time to set up sub.
Replays of epic sweeping (hax included):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2044857 Lots of hax. Lots.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2045953
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2053194 Suicide Staraptor killing wall, allowing for clean sweep.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2053846
Move Clefable to S You know why, unpredictable as hell.For you PMD fans
Linked Viability Rankings
Made by me, M'joe'ra, Hack Guy, InfernapeTropius11, TheBlueFireTruck
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the Linked metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These pokemon define the metagame.
S Rank
Talonflame
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Linked metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.
A+
Jirachi
Clefable
Dragonite
Gyarados-Mega
Charizard-Mega X
Altaria-Mega
Manaphy
(Aegislash)
A
Thundurus
Gliscor
Keldeo
Azumarill
Mienshao
Infernape
Landorus T
Magnezone
Charizard-Mega Y
Metagross-Mega
Amoonguss
A-
Pinsir-Mega
Weavile
Gallade-Mega
Tyranitar-Mega
Zapdos
Victini
Lopunny-Mega
Feraligatr
Ambipom
Cloyster
Politoed
Manectric-Mega
Excadrill
Tyranitar
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Linked metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
B+
Serperior
Gengar
Cinccino
Lucario
Venusaur-Mega
Gardevoir-Mega
Latios
Kingdra
Kyurem-Black
Bisharp
Swampert-Mega
Ninetales
Rotom W
Slowbro-Mega
Heatran
Mew
Kabutops
B
Garchomp
Skarmory
Aggron-Mega
Scizor-Mega
Volcarona
Omastar
Rhyperior
Quagsire
Raikou
Terrakion
Ferrothorn
B-
Scolipede
Medicham-Mega
Porygon-Z
Scizor
Togekiss
Reuniclus
Sableye-Mega
Tyrantrum
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have a niche in the Linked metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the metagame
C+
Raichu
Wobbuffet
Ditto
Venomoth
Breloom
Salamence
Haxorus
Aerodactyl-Mega
Whimsicott
Hippodown
C
Accelgor
Froslass
Hydreigon
Regirock
Smeargle
Latias-Mega
Gothitelle
C-
Chansey
Gorebyss
Dusclops
Espeon
Cresselia
Forretress
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the Linked metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a
majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.
Regigigas
Lickilicky
Exploud
Chatot
Ludicolo
Glalie-Mega
Tropius
Exeggutor
Victreebel
Move Gliscor to A+ Annoying as hell with the ability to beat almost anything.
Move Manaphy to A, it's kind of predictable.
Move Gyarados to -A, stall isn't very common and it's beaten by Clefable now as its not forced to Softboiled all the time. It's also very weak to priority.
Good job guys :>
Pivoting. Heatran can switch into this and take a pittance (unless you do Fusion Bolt as the second linked move, but that's worse against other things), while Victini basically has to switch out right after. Not a problem if Victini's linking U-Turn.
Cool set, though. Should probably invest 252 EVs in Special Attack to get the most out of its 200BP Fusion Flare. The damage output is greater against neutral targets.
Between that set and V-Create + U-Turn, Victini should be ranked at least A. Both sets wreck teams that aren't prepared for them.
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This is very cool. One of the "gamebreaking gimmicks that's exclusive to a meta." If you remember Dark Diggersby in Hidden Type, it gets 285 BP Foul Play because of STAB + Huge Power. This thing have 300 BP drawbackless Special Fire move, stronger than V-Create. With this, Victini can hit hard on both side (Special and Physical).Have another set, it's for Victini
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe (atk and spa can be changed to your likings)
Hasty Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Fusion Flare
- U-turn
- [Filler]
Most Victini's are V-Create+U-turn, but this set takes advantage of Victini's capability of learning both Fusion moves. When used after the other, the second move's base power doubles, meaning Fusion Flare actually has 200 base power + STAB (I have no idea why someone would go for a weak v-create + u-turn compared to this). Scarf + max speed outspeeds many pokemon, allowing Victini to easily sweep when its threats are gone. Electric and fire also happen to get good coverage over commonly used pokemon in this meta. Scarfed U-turn provides a good pivot without loosing momentum.
Main threats: Heatran, Tflame, Dragonite, Clefable, Gliscor if it has time to set up sub.
Replays of epic sweeping (hax included):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2044857 Lots of hax. Lots.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2045953
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2053194 Suicide Staraptor killing wall, allowing for clean sweep.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2053846
Tier changes:
Victini to A because of set above.
Manaphy to A, because I don't know what other set it usually run, so its kinda predictable.
Pokes that needs rankinng:
Tornadus T: Haven't decided this, as no one use it.
Diggersby: same as above
Hitmonlee: probably B- because I don't know its other niche besides priority thing and Reckless High Jump Kick.
Mega Banette: Prankster Parafusion.
So I'm making this team which I was planning to keep secret and then blow everyone away with once I had it just right. But then I remember that I'm not the best team builder and that I am still unexperienced in this meta. So I need a bit of help but first I'm gonna have a massive rant about this concept and Whimsicott.
This post is really long so I'm putting everything in hide tags cause holy shit.
This took a long time to write and proof read so there may be mistakes idk.
Quick Edit:
Whimsicott is currently C+ and I'm assuming its not for these sets. Without terrain and sun I'd put these sets at C+ or B-. With the correct support it is epic like A+ material. So to find some middle ground I'd say around B+ or A- may be fitting. Its a lot like Kingdra with rain tbh.
This post is really long so I'm putting everything in hide tags cause holy shit.
So the concept is... *drum roll* Grassy Terrain + Sun!
Grassy Terrain by itself is a pretty cool concept but the two together mesh quite nicely I find.
Like, Grassy Terrain gives:
- Passive leftovers recovery to everything
- 50% power boost to grass type moves
- *50% reduced power of the Moves Earthquake, Bulldoze and some other move no one uses but Earthquake is a biggy.* (Or at least so Bulbapedia tells me).
- Activate Grass Pelt (I don't intend on using Gogoat but it may not be that bad tbh).
- Turns Nature Power into Energy Ball
*** All these benefits also apply to the opposition but only if they are grounded. ***
And I don't really need to explain too many benefits of sun. Though I will remind everyone that it reduces the accuracy of Hurricane to 50%, which helps with grass spam a bit.
But yeah the initial reason I wanted to put Sun and Grassy Terrain together was because I thought it would be nice to have Chlorophyll Venusaur link Growth and Solar Beam to abuse gaining +2 SpA every turn and then slap something in the face with a boosted, 100% accurate, 0 drawback (in sun), 180bp (grassy terrain boost) Grass STAB every turn, that progressively gets stronger thanks to Growth every time you use it. Plus it would have immense speed thanks to Chlorophyll and Grassy Terrain's leftovers thingy working against the Life Orb damage.
Grassy Terrain by itself is a pretty cool concept but the two together mesh quite nicely I find.
Like, Grassy Terrain gives:
- Passive leftovers recovery to everything
- 50% power boost to grass type moves
- *50% reduced power of the Moves Earthquake, Bulldoze and some other move no one uses but Earthquake is a biggy.* (Or at least so Bulbapedia tells me).
- Activate Grass Pelt (I don't intend on using Gogoat but it may not be that bad tbh).
- Turns Nature Power into Energy Ball
*** All these benefits also apply to the opposition but only if they are grounded. ***
And I don't really need to explain too many benefits of sun. Though I will remind everyone that it reduces the accuracy of Hurricane to 50%, which helps with grass spam a bit.
But yeah the initial reason I wanted to put Sun and Grassy Terrain together was because I thought it would be nice to have Chlorophyll Venusaur link Growth and Solar Beam to abuse gaining +2 SpA every turn and then slap something in the face with a boosted, 100% accurate, 0 drawback (in sun), 180bp (grassy terrain boost) Grass STAB every turn, that progressively gets stronger thanks to Growth every time you use it. Plus it would have immense speed thanks to Chlorophyll and Grassy Terrain's leftovers thingy working against the Life Orb damage.
And that still sounds pretty epic, but I'm now more excited about this whimsical little legend.
So I've thought of a couple sets;
Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Growth
- Nature Power
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power Fire
So here is the thing. Nature Power is a status move, that turns into a different attacking move when used, depending on the field. In Grassy Terrain it becomes energy ball, but it still gets the Prankster priority boost from being a status move when selected. It also still gets the Grassy Terrain boost. So you have a 135bp Grass STAB with +1 priority. Also Growth is a status move so you still have +1 priority only your 135bp STAB move is now at +2 SpA, and then +4, and then +6. Also Grassy Terrain again fights back against LO damage.
You honestly don't need much else. Moonblast helps with Mega Charizard X and Dragonite, as well as a few other Dragons that quad resist Grass, and HP Fire is pretty much just for Ferrothorn.
Now I'm gonna throw out the first of many calcs to come just to show off how epic this thing is.
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 352-415 (103.2 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 406-477 (119 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Infernape: 298-351 (101.7 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Resisted.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 148-174 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 220-260 (66.2 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A specially defensive pivot that resists Grass can't switch into this thing.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sceptile: 114-135 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sceptile: 172-203 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even something that 4x resists Grass can't take two Nature Powers.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 136-161 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO
Btw with max speed Timid Whimsicott out prioritises max speed Adamant Talonflame making that 2HKO very realistic (or possibly even OHKO after SR).
The only pokemon off the top of my head that can take this would be Heatran, Mega Venusaur and Mega Charizard Y.
So I've thought of a couple sets;
Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Growth
- Nature Power
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power Fire
So here is the thing. Nature Power is a status move, that turns into a different attacking move when used, depending on the field. In Grassy Terrain it becomes energy ball, but it still gets the Prankster priority boost from being a status move when selected. It also still gets the Grassy Terrain boost. So you have a 135bp Grass STAB with +1 priority. Also Growth is a status move so you still have +1 priority only your 135bp STAB move is now at +2 SpA, and then +4, and then +6. Also Grassy Terrain again fights back against LO damage.
You honestly don't need much else. Moonblast helps with Mega Charizard X and Dragonite, as well as a few other Dragons that quad resist Grass, and HP Fire is pretty much just for Ferrothorn.
Now I'm gonna throw out the first of many calcs to come just to show off how epic this thing is.
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 352-415 (103.2 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 406-477 (119 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Infernape: 298-351 (101.7 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Resisted.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 148-174 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 220-260 (66.2 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A specially defensive pivot that resists Grass can't switch into this thing.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sceptile: 114-135 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sceptile: 172-203 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even something that 4x resists Grass can't take two Nature Powers.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 136-161 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO
Btw with max speed Timid Whimsicott out prioritises max speed Adamant Talonflame making that 2HKO very realistic (or possibly even OHKO after SR).
The only pokemon off the top of my head that can take this would be Heatran, Mega Venusaur and Mega Charizard Y.
Next I took this set and went; why let myself be checked by Mega Charizard Y and miss out on some OHKO that could earn me extra Sun/Terrain turns?
So I made this:
Whimsicott @ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Growth
- Nature Power
- HP Fire / HP Ground
- Memento / U-Turn
The main concept is still there only you can't switch moves and no longer out speed Adamant Talonflame. You also can't switch to Moonblast or HP so you may be walled easier by some. But the trade is pretty even when you consider all the extra OHKOs you'll be getting thanks to Specs and Modest that net you more Sun/Terrain time to kill more things. The Hidden Power is dependant on whether you want to catch Heatran or Ferrothorn. Memento or U-Turn are great for momentum grabbing.
For some examples of things that are easier to kill now:
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 113-133 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 170-200 (57.2 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Charizard Y can now no longer switch into you as there is a chance you will 2HKO it, and if it has taken like just 5% prior damage its guaranteed.
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 262-309 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 391-462 (60.9 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The greatest special wall in the game is no guaranteed to be 2HKOed.
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 308-363 (103 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T: 311-366 (104 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 279-329 (99.2 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Some nice examples of pokemon that had 0 chance of being OHKOed by LO Timid (without SR)
So I made this:
Whimsicott @ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Growth
- Nature Power
- HP Fire / HP Ground
- Memento / U-Turn
The main concept is still there only you can't switch moves and no longer out speed Adamant Talonflame. You also can't switch to Moonblast or HP so you may be walled easier by some. But the trade is pretty even when you consider all the extra OHKOs you'll be getting thanks to Specs and Modest that net you more Sun/Terrain time to kill more things. The Hidden Power is dependant on whether you want to catch Heatran or Ferrothorn. Memento or U-Turn are great for momentum grabbing.
For some examples of things that are easier to kill now:
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 113-133 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 170-200 (57.2 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Charizard Y can now no longer switch into you as there is a chance you will 2HKO it, and if it has taken like just 5% prior damage its guaranteed.
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 262-309 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 391-462 (60.9 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The greatest special wall in the game is no guaranteed to be 2HKOed.
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 308-363 (103 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T: 311-366 (104 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 279-329 (99.2 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Some nice examples of pokemon that had 0 chance of being OHKOed by LO Timid (without SR)
I know that thus far this has all been perfect conditions for Whimsicott and that Whimsy is on a timer, so I just wanna point out that it isn't dead weight when you can't set up your fields conditions and bring Whimsy in.
Without anything up, Nature Power becomes Tri-Attack. But still maintains its priority, and it is still some of the strongest priority in the game.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 147-173 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 152-179 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Keeping in mind each use of Nature Power will also use Growth, meaning the 2nd hit will out damage CB Scizor's Bullet Punch and such, as it will be +2.
Also LO Whimsicott is quite strong in RU, so with that sweet priority and boosting, its use is definitely justifiable, even without the support.
Without anything up, Nature Power becomes Tri-Attack. But still maintains its priority, and it is still some of the strongest priority in the game.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 147-173 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 152-179 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Keeping in mind each use of Nature Power will also use Growth, meaning the 2nd hit will out damage CB Scizor's Bullet Punch and such, as it will be +2.
Also LO Whimsicott is quite strong in RU, so with that sweet priority and boosting, its use is definitely justifiable, even without the support.
So that rant was far longer then I had hoped but my team seems to be coming together really well I just need a couple setters.
I've been considering bulky Setters of both Sunny Day and Grassy Terrain in a link like Tangrowth, Florges (doesn't stack grass typing which I love), and Meganium.
Also fast suicide setters of both in a link like Jumpluff, Serperior, and Sceptile.
Oh and Nietales, but that is only sun.
My trouble is the only one that can ste up both in one turn and then pivot out is Jumpluff, as it has Sunny Day, Grassy Terrain, U-Turn and Memento. So I'm thinking this may be the best setter with a sash thanks to its 110 speed, only not sure how useful sash is cause there may be lots of double attacking move links.
So my question is if you had to pick two setters what is the most reliable way in this meta. (I know fake turn may be a big problem for setting up so am trying to deal with that via team mates).
I've been considering bulky Setters of both Sunny Day and Grassy Terrain in a link like Tangrowth, Florges (doesn't stack grass typing which I love), and Meganium.
Also fast suicide setters of both in a link like Jumpluff, Serperior, and Sceptile.
Oh and Nietales, but that is only sun.
My trouble is the only one that can ste up both in one turn and then pivot out is Jumpluff, as it has Sunny Day, Grassy Terrain, U-Turn and Memento. So I'm thinking this may be the best setter with a sash thanks to its 110 speed, only not sure how useful sash is cause there may be lots of double attacking move links.
So my question is if you had to pick two setters what is the most reliable way in this meta. (I know fake turn may be a big problem for setting up so am trying to deal with that via team mates).
This took a long time to write and proof read so there may be mistakes idk.
Quick Edit:
Whimsicott is currently C+ and I'm assuming its not for these sets. Without terrain and sun I'd put these sets at C+ or B-. With the correct support it is epic like A+ material. So to find some middle ground I'd say around B+ or A- may be fitting. Its a lot like Kingdra with rain tbh.
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That's actually a very nice concept. Problem is, I think Whimsicott needs too much support if you want to use its full potential because you need Ninetales + a Grassy Terrain poke. But it's very cool.So I'm making this team which I was planning to keep secret and then blow everyone away with once I had it just right. But then I remember that I'm not the best team builder and that I am still unexperienced in this meta. So I need a bit of help but first I'm gonna have a massive rant about this concept and Whimsicott.
This post is really long so I'm putting everything in hide tags cause holy shit.
So the concept is... *drum roll* Grassy Terrain + Sun!
Grassy Terrain by itself is a pretty cool concept but the two together mesh quite nicely I find.
Like, Grassy Terrain gives:
- Passive leftovers recovery to everything
- 50% power boost to grass type moves
- *50% reduced power of the Moves Earthquake, Bulldoze and some other move no one uses but Earthquake is a biggy.* (Or at least so Bulbapedia tells me).
- Activate Grass Pelt (I don't intend on using Gogoat but it may not be that bad tbh).
- Turns Nature Power into Energy Ball
*** All these benefits also apply to the opposition but only if they are grounded. ***
And I don't really need to explain too many benefits of sun. Though I will remind everyone that it reduces the accuracy of Hurricane to 50%, which helps with grass spam a bit.
But yeah the initial reason I wanted to put Sun and Grassy Terrain together was because I thought it would be nice to have Chlorophyll Venusaur link Growth and Solar Beam to abuse gaining +2 SpA every turn and then slap something in the face with a boosted, 100% accurate, 0 drawback (in sun), 180bp (grassy terrain boost) Grass STAB every turn, that progressively gets stronger thanks to Growth every time you use it. Plus it would have immense speed thanks to Chlorophyll and Grassy Terrain's leftovers thingy working against the Life Orb damage.
And that still sounds pretty epic, but I'm now more excited about this whimsical little legend.
So I've thought of a couple sets;
Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Growth
- Nature Power
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power Fire
So here is the thing. Nature Power is a status move, that turns into a different attacking move when used, depending on the field. In Grassy Terrain it becomes energy ball, but it still gets the Prankster priority boost from being a status move when selected. It also still gets the Grassy Terrain boost. So you have a 135bp Grass STAB with +1 priority. Also Growth is a status move so you still have +1 priority only your 135bp STAB move is now at +2 SpA, and then +4, and then +6. Also Grassy Terrain again fights back against LO damage.
You honestly don't need much else. Moonblast helps with Mega Charizard X and Dragonite, as well as a few other Dragons that quad resist Grass, and HP Fire is pretty much just for Ferrothorn.
Now I'm gonna throw out the first of many calcs to come just to show off how epic this thing is.
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 352-415 (103.2 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 406-477 (119 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Infernape: 298-351 (101.7 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Resisted.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 148-174 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 220-260 (66.2 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A specially defensive pivot that resists Grass can't switch into this thing.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sceptile: 114-135 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sceptile: 172-203 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even something that 4x resists Grass can't take two Nature Powers.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 136-161 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO
Btw with max speed Timid Whimsicott out prioritises max speed Adamant Talonflame making that 2HKO very realistic (or possibly even OHKO after SR).
The only pokemon off the top of my head that can take this would be Heatran, Mega Venusaur and Mega Charizard Y.
Next I took this set and went; why let myself be checked by Mega Charizard Y and miss out on some OHKO that could earn me extra Sun/Terrain turns?
So I made this:
Whimsicott @ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Growth
- Nature Power
- HP Fire / HP Ground
- Memento / U-Turn
The main concept is still there only you can't switch moves and no longer out speed Adamant Talonflame. You also can't switch to Moonblast or HP so you may be walled easier by some. But the trade is pretty even when you consider all the extra OHKOs you'll be getting thanks to Specs and Modest that net you more Sun/Terrain time to kill more things. The Hidden Power is dependant on whether you want to catch Heatran or Ferrothorn. Memento or U-Turn are great for momentum grabbing.
For some examples of things that are easier to kill now:
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 113-133 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 170-200 (57.2 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Charizard Y can now no longer switch into you as there is a chance you will 2HKO it, and if it has taken like just 5% prior damage its guaranteed.
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 262-309 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 391-462 (60.9 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The greatest special wall in the game is no guaranteed to be 2HKOed.
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 308-363 (103 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T: 311-366 (104 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 279-329 (99.2 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Some nice examples of pokemon that had 0 chance of being OHKOed by LO Timid (without SR)
I know that thus far this has all been perfect conditions for Whimsicott and that Whimsy is on a timer, so I just wanna point out that it isn't dead weight when you can't set up your fields conditions and bring Whimsy in.
Without anything up, Nature Power becomes Tri-Attack. But still maintains its priority, and it is still some of the strongest priority in the game.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 147-173 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 152-179 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Keeping in mind each use of Nature Power will also use Growth, meaning the 2nd hit will out damage CB Scizor's Bullet Punch and such, as it will be +2.
Also LO Whimsicott is quite strong in RU, so with that sweet priority and boosting, its use is definitely justifiable, even without the support.
So that rant was far longer then I had hoped but my team seems to be coming together really well I just need a couple setters.
I've been considering bulky Setters of both Sunny Day and Grassy Terrain in a link like Tangrowth, Florges (doesn't stack grass typing which I love), and Meganium.
Also fast suicide setters of both in a link like Jumpluff, Serperior, and Sceptile.
Oh and Nietales, but that is only sun.
My trouble is the only one that can ste up both in one turn and then pivot out is Jumpluff, as it has Sunny Day, Grassy Terrain, U-Turn and Memento. So I'm thinking this may be the best setter with a sash thanks to its 110 speed, only not sure how useful sash is cause there may be lots of double attacking move links.
So my question is if you had to pick two setters what is the most reliable way in this meta. (I know fake turn may be a big problem for setting up so am trying to deal with that via team mates).
This took a long time to write and proof read so there may be mistakes idk.
Quick Edit:
Whimsicott is currently C+ and I'm assuming its not for these sets. Without terrain and sun I'd put these sets at C+ or B-. With the correct support it is epic like A+ material. So to find some middle ground I'd say around B+ or A- may be fitting. Its a lot like Kingdra with rain tbh.
I actually don't know any good Grassy Terrain user, but I guess you can use Scarf Serperior Grassy Terrain + Leaf Storm for x3 power for your next Leaf Storm, though I don't know if its better than standard Leaf Storm + coverage combo. Scarf Serperior also outspeeds all Faketurn users bar Ambipom, which is great. It also outspeed most Rain sweepers in Rain except Kabutops and Kingdra. Other than that, I think Jumpluff is the best Grassy Terrain user due to Grassy Terrain + U-turn/Memento (wow Jumpluff has a niche. Cool).
Also, make sure to have Talonflame check/counter. If you want instant anti Faketurn, Jirachi and Talonflame, Aegislash is the best candidate for it (so beg Hack Guy to unban it) due to King's Shield. Although it dies to Flare Blitz, it does well vs Jirachi and Faketurn pokes due to King's Shield. But Rocky Helmet Heatran is a pretty good alternative (though Mienshao's High Jump Kick is a problem).
It's an interesting concept overall. It would be nice if you post some replays on how this team works.
Edit: forgot to say, but if I were to choose a Grassy Terrain setter, it's either Florges, Jumpluff or Serperior. I choose three because they have their own quality among the other Grassy Terrain users. Florges is a nice Special Wall because of this.
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 168-198 (46.6 - 55%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Jumpluff and Serperior are because of reasons above. Its up to you to pick one though.
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On the topic of countering the most dangerous threats, I came across this man while looking for a check to talonflame while being able to have an offensive presence on the level of or stronger than mega diancie.
Rhyperior @ Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Ice Punch
Call him STRONK, this man has an exceptionally high base attack of 140 which reaches 416 attack with adamant and when equipped with a choice band the power just skyrockets. Rock blast and eq are usually the moves that you would pick due to edgequake coverage and being able to break sub and possibly deal damage early with rock blast. Megahorn and ice punch are there if you want to make plays or the last poke the opponent has is weak to it. This man can not only attack but he can also take hits very well too!
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 63-74 (15.2 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 57-68 (13.7 - 16.4%) -- possible 7HKO
Easily switches in on talon and if the opponent doesn't predict the switch with a u-turn you will most likely get a kill if not deal massive damage to something else on his team.
128 SpA Victini Fusion Flare (200bp) vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 197-232 (47.5 - 56%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
Sadly with the offensive set Rhyperior will most likely get 2HKOd by the based victini set, but you can run a different set that exchanges coverage and a bit of power for more bulk, and stealth rocks
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Roar/Protect/Ice Punch/Megahorn
128 SpA Victini Fusion Flare (200bp) vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Rhyperior: 139-164 (32.1 - 37.8%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 63-74 (14.5 - 17%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 57-68 (13.1 - 15.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Now we have a solid(rock) counter to the based victini set -I'm sorry I just had to- talonflame just goes and cries in a corner while we have a bunch of utility options to play around with.
None of your calcs includes the Grassy Terrain boost. The planned Whimsicott is much more lethal than your calcs suggest.So I'm making this team which I was planning to keep secret and then blow everyone away with once I had it just right. But then I remember that I'm not the best team builder and that I am still unexperienced in this meta. So I need a bit of help but first I'm gonna have a massive rant about this concept and Whimsicott.
This post is really long so I'm putting everything in hide tags cause holy shit.
So the concept is... *drum roll* Grassy Terrain + Sun!
Grassy Terrain by itself is a pretty cool concept but the two together mesh quite nicely I find.
Like, Grassy Terrain gives:
- Passive leftovers recovery to everything
- 50% power boost to grass type moves
- *50% reduced power of the Moves Earthquake, Bulldoze and some other move no one uses but Earthquake is a biggy.* (Or at least so Bulbapedia tells me).
- Activate Grass Pelt (I don't intend on using Gogoat but it may not be that bad tbh).
- Turns Nature Power into Energy Ball
*** All these benefits also apply to the opposition but only if they are grounded. ***
And I don't really need to explain too many benefits of sun. Though I will remind everyone that it reduces the accuracy of Hurricane to 50%, which helps with grass spam a bit.
But yeah the initial reason I wanted to put Sun and Grassy Terrain together was because I thought it would be nice to have Chlorophyll Venusaur link Growth and Solar Beam to abuse gaining +2 SpA every turn and then slap something in the face with a boosted, 100% accurate, 0 drawback (in sun), 180bp (grassy terrain boost) Grass STAB every turn, that progressively gets stronger thanks to Growth every time you use it. Plus it would have immense speed thanks to Chlorophyll and Grassy Terrain's leftovers thingy working against the Life Orb damage.
And that still sounds pretty epic, but I'm now more excited about this whimsical little legend.
So I've thought of a couple sets;
Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Growth
- Nature Power
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power Fire
So here is the thing. Nature Power is a status move, that turns into a different attacking move when used, depending on the field. In Grassy Terrain it becomes energy ball, but it still gets the Prankster priority boost from being a status move when selected. It also still gets the Grassy Terrain boost. So you have a 135bp Grass STAB with +1 priority. Also Growth is a status move so you still have +1 priority only your 135bp STAB move is now at +2 SpA, and then +4, and then +6. Also Grassy Terrain again fights back against LO damage.
You honestly don't need much else. Moonblast helps with Mega Charizard X and Dragonite, as well as a few other Dragons that quad resist Grass, and HP Fire is pretty much just for Ferrothorn.
Now I'm gonna throw out the first of many calcs to come just to show off how epic this thing is.
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 352-415 (103.2 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 406-477 (119 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Infernape: 298-351 (101.7 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Resisted.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 148-174 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 220-260 (66.2 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A specially defensive pivot that resists Grass can't switch into this thing.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sceptile: 114-135 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sceptile: 172-203 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even something that 4x resists Grass can't take two Nature Powers.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 136-161 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO
Btw with max speed Timid Whimsicott out prioritises max speed Adamant Talonflame making that 2HKO very realistic (or possibly even OHKO after SR).
The only pokemon off the top of my head that can take this would be Heatran, Mega Venusaur and Mega Charizard Y.
Next I took this set and went; why let myself be checked by Mega Charizard Y and miss out on some OHKO that could earn me extra Sun/Terrain turns?
So I made this:
Whimsicott @ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Growth
- Nature Power
- HP Fire / HP Ground
- Memento / U-Turn
The main concept is still there only you can't switch moves and no longer out speed Adamant Talonflame. You also can't switch to Moonblast or HP so you may be walled easier by some. But the trade is pretty even when you consider all the extra OHKOs you'll be getting thanks to Specs and Modest that net you more Sun/Terrain time to kill more things. The Hidden Power is dependant on whether you want to catch Heatran or Ferrothorn. Memento or U-Turn are great for momentum grabbing.
For some examples of things that are easier to kill now:
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 113-133 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 170-200 (57.2 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Charizard Y can now no longer switch into you as there is a chance you will 2HKO it, and if it has taken like just 5% prior damage its guaranteed.
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 262-309 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 391-462 (60.9 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The greatest special wall in the game is no guaranteed to be 2HKOed.
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 308-363 (103 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T: 311-366 (104 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 279-329 (99.2 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Some nice examples of pokemon that had 0 chance of being OHKOed by LO Timid (without SR)
I know that thus far this has all been perfect conditions for Whimsicott and that Whimsy is on a timer, so I just wanna point out that it isn't dead weight when you can't set up your fields conditions and bring Whimsy in.
Without anything up, Nature Power becomes Tri-Attack. But still maintains its priority, and it is still some of the strongest priority in the game.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 147-173 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 152-179 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Keeping in mind each use of Nature Power will also use Growth, meaning the 2nd hit will out damage CB Scizor's Bullet Punch and such, as it will be +2.
Also LO Whimsicott is quite strong in RU, so with that sweet priority and boosting, its use is definitely justifiable, even without the support.
So that rant was far longer then I had hoped but my team seems to be coming together really well I just need a couple setters.
I've been considering bulky Setters of both Sunny Day and Grassy Terrain in a link like Tangrowth, Florges (doesn't stack grass typing which I love), and Meganium.
Also fast suicide setters of both in a link like Jumpluff, Serperior, and Sceptile.
Oh and Nietales, but that is only sun.
My trouble is the only one that can ste up both in one turn and then pivot out is Jumpluff, as it has Sunny Day, Grassy Terrain, U-Turn and Memento. So I'm thinking this may be the best setter with a sash thanks to its 110 speed, only not sure how useful sash is cause there may be lots of double attacking move links.
So my question is if you had to pick two setters what is the most reliable way in this meta. (I know fake turn may be a big problem for setting up so am trying to deal with that via team mates).
This took a long time to write and proof read so there may be mistakes idk.
Quick Edit:
Whimsicott is currently C+ and I'm assuming its not for these sets. Without terrain and sun I'd put these sets at C+ or B-. With the correct support it is epic like A+ material. So to find some middle ground I'd say around B+ or A- may be fitting. Its a lot like Kingdra with rain tbh.
If you're assuming you get Grassy Terrain up, I'd stick to Life Orb over Specs. Better to be able to just stomp Heatran or whoever with coverage without having to waste sun/Grass turns on switching.
I think he didn't realise you can add Grassy terrain in the calculator, he stated that he increased the BP by 50%. I think
I can't find anything in his post saying that. The closest it gets is saying "the previous calcs have been assuming perfect conditions for Whimsicott", which I guess could be an indirect allusion to having included a 50% boost to the Energy Ball calcs, but I don't think so.
I just thought of three abusive sets, abusing the same gimmick:
1. Megabee (or any other pokemon that gets the following combination) with Giga Impact+U-Turn. Immense damage, Low risk, win
2. MegaGlalie using Giga Impact+Explosion. Gets laughed at by Cloyster, but really, it's Cloyster.
3. Hyper Beam + Volt Switch. Same situation as 1.
1. Megabee (or any other pokemon that gets the following combination) with Giga Impact+U-Turn. Immense damage, Low risk, win
2. MegaGlalie using Giga Impact+Explosion. Gets laughed at by Cloyster, but really, it's Cloyster.
3. Hyper Beam + Volt Switch. Same situation as 1.
Well, Specs Grassy Terrain Whimsicott basically has the power of Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice if unboosted, so +2 should be doing much more than Band Talonflame's Brave Bird + Aerial Ace. It's like Mega Gardevoir with instant +2.
252 SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Nature Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Grassy Terrain: 234-276 (68.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 229-270 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also I would suggest Switcheroo on the Specs set because its useful to make Clefable useless, especially if it want to stop you with its Unaware, which doesn't care about Growth boost.
252 SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Nature Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Grassy Terrain: 234-276 (68.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 229-270 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also I would suggest Switcheroo on the Specs set because its useful to make Clefable useless, especially if it want to stop you with its Unaware, which doesn't care about Growth boost.
Sorry for not specifying I was using a weird calculator and it didn't have the terrains.
So I was just multiplying the base power of the grass moves by 1.5 in my calcs. Sorry for forgetting to specify that.
Anyway in the end my calcs are roughly 0.5% off for some reason but it doesn't really change anything.
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball (135bp)vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 406-478 (112.4 - 132.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy in Grassy Terrain: 408-484 (113 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
EDIT: Also Unaware Clef doesn't care about Growth boosts but does care about
252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable in Grassy Terrain: 280-330 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
So I was just multiplying the base power of the grass moves by 1.5 in my calcs. Sorry for forgetting to specify that.
Anyway in the end my calcs are roughly 0.5% off for some reason but it doesn't really change anything.
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball (135bp)vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 406-478 (112.4 - 132.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy in Grassy Terrain: 408-484 (113 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
EDIT: Also Unaware Clef doesn't care about Growth boosts but does care about
252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable in Grassy Terrain: 280-330 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
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Strategies 1 and 3 should really be used by Normal-types, as anything else would rather use one of its high-powered STABs. For 1, Ambipom has the highest Speed for the job, Staraptor has the highest Attack. Heliolisk is the viable option for #3... and it might be kinda scary on a sun team with Solar Power, now that I think of it.
It may not switch in, but it can "revenge stall" you (I don't know what's the correct term).
The scenario would be like this:
Whimsicott killed a poke, Clefable switch in.
Whimsicott used Nature Power!
252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable in Grassy Terrain: 280-330 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
Clefable is now at 3.9% health minimum if there is Stealth Rock.
Clefable used Calm Mind/Cosmic Power + Moonlight. It now has +1 SpD and 60.1% health because of Moonlight + Leftovers.
Whimsicott used Nature Power!
252+ SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable in Grassy Terrain: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
It doesn't KO. It'll Calm Mind/Cosmic Power + Recover again and your Nature Power will do less.
This calc may be useless to you because it can't switch in but it shows you that Clefable can stop your sweep even with maximum support. And when there is no Grassy Terrain in your field, you can't really do anything. That's when Switcheroo is useful.
Also I'm nominating Clefable to S rank because it can "revenge Stall" a lot of pokes, especially the ones with set up. Talonflame revenge kills, this one "revenge Stall." Quagsire can do the same with Curse, but it's less reliable due to lack of Special bulk.
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Ok I see your point now. But it doesn't really change anything because if it is "revenge stalling" me, then I can't use switcheroo on it anyway, because it won't be switching in. And if its revenging me then I would be locked into an attacking move.
Whimsocott just seems immensely broken...
Keep in mind that it requires grassy terrain and sun to be set up, which requires a lot of team support, especially for checking things like talon, which can obliterate whimsi depending on the set (some people do run jolly to outspeed other pranksters).
What else stops it dead in its sweep? If you have Stealth rocks up & Hidden power ground + Magne pull users there is nothing stopping your sweep. Pair it with Jumpluff and you can link Grassy terrain with Memento, giving you an excellent set up opportunity. It only needs Grassy terrain