Linoone [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Molk, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. Molk

    Molk idk
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    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>In the depths of the RU tier lies an often overlooked Pokemon, one that trainers typically wouldn't hesitate to release after the first gym. This Pokemon is none other than Linoone, and while it may seem cute and harmless, it's anything but. After one turn of setup with its rare boosting move, Belly Drum, Linoone can easily tear most teams to pieces. What's more, due to STAB ExtremeSpeed, it's less vulnerable to being revenge killed than other Belly Drummers after a boost. Linoone is not unstoppable, however; there are plenty of Pokemon that can put its rampage to a stop. Linoone also needs some help to begin its sweep in the first place, as it is incredibly frail. If you can provide Linoone with the support it needs to unleash its potential, however, it won't hesitate to drive your opponent up a tree, in fear that is.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Belly Drum Sweeper
    move 1: Belly Drum
    move 2: ExtremeSpeed
    move 3: Shadow Claw
    move 4: Seed Bomb / Rock Smash / Return
    item: Silk Scarf / Lum Berry
    ability: Gluttony
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the key to sweeping with Linoone; once it sets up a Belly Drum, it can cleanly sweep with ExtremeSpeed. As Linoone's STAB move has +2 priority, investing in Speed is unnecessary. Instead, some extra bulk makes it much easier for Linoone to set up and bring forth the hellfire. A Silk Scarf allows Linoone to hit much harder with ExtremeSpeed without the recoil of Life Orb, while Lum Berry gives Linoone a cushion against status users that may try to cripple it. Shadow Claw allows it to hit bulky Ghost-types, such as Dusknoir and Cofagrigus, where it hurts, and at +6 it will surely hurt a lot. The last move depends on who you want Linoone to be able to take down; Seed Bomb allows Linoone to beat Rhydon into submission, while Rock Smash makes any Aggron trying to switch into ExtremeSpeed cry. Return is a secondary STAB move that hits much harder than ExtremeSpeed. The extra power allows Linoone to OHKO bulky foes that ExtremeSpeed could not, and it therefore works well along with Lum Berry.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Despite having the potential to be an incredibly powerful sweeper, Linoone requires a fair amount of support if it is to to succeed. First of all, Linoone loves dual screens, and can set up much more easily behind them; Swoobat and Uxie are excellent examples of teammates that can set up screens for Linoone. Uxie has better defenses and access to Stealth Rock, while Swoobat has access to Taunt and U-turn for scouting purposes, backed up by an excellent base 114 Speed. Linoone loves trappers that can get rid of Pokemon that threaten it. For instance, Krookodile's Pursuit makes short work of Rotom and Haunter, while Magneton and Dugtrio can trap and KO Steel-types such as Ferroseed. Fighting-types such as Hitmonlee and Gallade also complement Linoone well, busting up the walls and Steel-types that the latter cannot. Wynaut provides a unique form of support; it can assist Linoone by Encoring non-attacking moves, by softening up opponents with Tickle, or even by shielding Linoone from status with Safeguard. Linoone loves entry hazards even more than the average sweeper because these allow it to score KOs on some bulky walls, such as Tangrowth and Cofagrigus. Some examples of Linoone's power are shown below with damage calculations.</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+6 Silk Scarf ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 / 252+ Tangrowth 69.8% - 82.4% (likely OHKO with Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes)</li>
    <li>+6 Silk Scarf ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 / 252+ Gligar 63.8% - 75.4% ( guaranteed 2HKO)</li>
    <li>+6 Silk Scarf ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 / 176+ Clefable 110.4% - 130.2% (guaranteed OHKO)</li>
    <li>+6 Shadow Claw vs. 252 / 252+ Cofagrigus 76.88% - 90.63% (chance of OHKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
    <li>+6 Seed Bomb vs. 252 / 252+ Cofagrigus 44.06% - 51.88% (chance of 2HKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
    </ul>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Belly Drum is Linoone's only viable option, as most other sets are too weak. A Choice Band set can be used, but Linoone's power is sadly lacking. Iron Tail can be used to hit Rock-types hard, but Seed Bomb already does this. Flail is an option with Substitute, but weather and hazards make this difficult to set up, and the unavailability of Salac Berry renders this strategy nonviable for the time being.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Despite Linoone's incredible power, there are many things that can stop it. Perhaps the best chance you have against an opposing Linoone is to prevent it from setting up entirely. As its defenses aren't the best around, strong STAB or Fighting-type attacks will take it down, even behind dual screens. Once Linoone has set up a Belly Drum, Steelix is perhaps its most solid counter; even after setup, Linoone's attacks deal little damage to Steelix, which can proceed to Roar out Linoone, forcing it to sacrifice half its health. Tangrowth is a pretty good check, as it can tank a hit and counter with Sleep Powder or KO with Power Whip. Entei's higher base Speed allows its ExtremeSpeed to strike before Linoone's, enabling it to check or revenge kill Linoone. Rotom and Haunter are immune to ExtremeSpeed, are faster than Linoone, and can easily KO it. Finally, as Unaware Quagsire ignores Belly Drum's stat boost, it is only 3HKOed by Seed Bomb.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Linoone's Dream World ability is Quick Feet. While this ability could in theory be useful for Linoone to give it an immunity to paralysis on its Belly Drum set, it is illegal with ExtremeSpeed.</p>
  2. Molk

    Molk idk
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    not ready for QC yet
  3. Dragonmaster123

    Dragonmaster123

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    Last Resort can be used in OO w/ Silk Scarf

    Rock Smash does crap to Aggaron anyways, and Iron Tail is just less accurate Seed Bomb

    yea, heres my two cents on it
  4. Molk

    Molk idk
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    it has 160 power on aggron, i mentioned the acc. issue on iron tail, last resort really isnt good at all, and remember rock smash is after a belly drum
  5. Molk

    Molk idk
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    this is ready for QC now
  6. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    use silk scarf instead of sitrus berry unless you want to lose to things that invest heavily in Defense and he appreciates the boost to help nullify any Intimidates. Linoone couldn't really give a crap about the Sitrus healing - it's not as if he's scared of priority or anything and there's no SS or Hail to whittle him down (is there? iunno but even if there was Leftovers would be better).
  7. PrimeMinister

    PrimeMinister

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    Probably should throw hone claws into OO.

    And, uh, add status into CC definitely, unless by "HOLY HAND GRENADE" you mean status........Burn cuts attack, poison+belly drum= oof suicide even with a sitrus, and paralysis.......well.........we know what that does.
  8. EonADS

    EonADS

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    ^ Yeah... basically just Burn and Para, maybe not even Para. Poison won't kill this thing fast enough to matter, not even Toxic. Four turns, that means at bare minimum you will lose two Pokemon if you don't have a hard counter to this thing.

    And oh my god, you fail for not getting the Monty Python reference.

    @Molten: Please mention how insanely high this thing's Attack stat goes (1048 with max attack Adamant).

    This thing needs Damage Calcs because it hits that fucking hard.
  9. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    Are there really only 4 Speed EVs to be invested?

    I second the notion of the item being Silk Scarf. I played with Linoone, and I really appreciated the extra power of Silk Scarf. Linoone is weaker than foam. It'll die to a Bubble from a Squirtle. The extra 25% HP won't due much good if Linoone's just going to die anyways.

    Also, mention Eviolite Slowpoke as a teammate. It could work like Gastrodon did last gen. It gets great defenses with Eviolite, has good HP, fairly nice typing, and has access to Yawn and Block. Also, it gets Slack Off and Regenerator as its ability (legal with yawn and block). Lastly, it gets Protect, so you could block as they switch, yawn as they attack, and protect just to be a dick.
  10. NightmareRealm

    NightmareRealm

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    Can i suggest a set?
    Here:
    Linoone@Choice Scarf/Band
    Jolly
    A252 S252
    Switcheroo
    Belly Drum
    Extremespeed
    Shadow Claw/Seed Bomb

    Basically swap items, get your foe stuck into a useless move, then belly drum to kill everything with extremespeed and shadow claw. Pretty basic, but i believe its deadly once you belly drum. Hope this set sparkled some ideas into linnone!
  11. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    You get walled by a lot of things already. Don't add to the list by inhibiting Linoone's coverage by dropping Seed Bomb. Also, Linoone hardly has any chances to come into any games at all and set up, and you expect him to force switches TWICE??? (once when he switcheroos and twice when he drums) It's just not gonna happen.
  12. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Damnit Molk, I wanted Linoone!

    Holy wow, this thing has base 100 speed! Could it run an Adamant/Jolly Salac Return set?

    Also, make sure that Linoone's HP EVs are odd/even so that its berry is activated by Belly Drum.
  13. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    unreleased
  14. Molk

    Molk idk
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    Yes, speed isnt required because linoone has a +2 Priority extremespeed, so i invested the rest of the evs into bulk cause linoone is going to be hitting pokemon slower than it with its coverage moves anyway.

    i'll add damage calcs

    only burn really affects linoone's sweep, but added anyway

    need advice on silk scarf vs sitrus berry
  15. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    I'm going to agree with Lee here: Silk Scarf. Belly Drum + Life Orb is going to kill Linoone faster than fast, and Silk Scarf is the next best thing.

    I have a feeling that this may not be relevant, but mention Haunter as a reason to run Shadow Claw; like the other Ghosts, it's immune to ExtremeSpeed and Rock Smash, but it also resists Seed Bomb.

    Hang on, I'll do calcs:

    Linoone Seed Bomb on Haunter, +0: 25% - 30%

    Linoone Seed Bomb on Haunter, +6: 102% - 120%

    Haunter Sludge Bomb on Linoone: 72% - 85%

    Decent check. Haunter can switch into Belly Drum and gimp Linoone, and can't be foiled by a predicted Seed Bomb. Then again, neither can Dusknoir and Cofagrigus.

    Adamant / Jolly Salac Return seems like a good set. Mention it in the DW section?
  16. Molk

    Molk idk
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    i just want to know, what does silk scarf kill that sitrus berry doesnt, ill slash it, possibly even as the main slash, if i have some examples.
  17. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    You should note in the DW section that if linoone uses quick feet, then it misses out on belly drum AND extremespeed together

    Also, the reason i push for silk scarf is because i can't see what the extra bulk from sitrus berry will do to help
  18. Molk

    Molk idk
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    it will allow you to survive some weaker attacks after a belly drum, cant find any situation where linoone doesnt score a KO with sitrus, but can with silk scarf, i slashed it still.
  19. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    belly drum is ziggy's level up move iirc
  20. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    But Espeed is a gen 3 only move, or so i thought...
  21. Molk

    Molk idk
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    yes, but it still cannot get extremespeed with belly drum
  22. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming The truth is in my hands
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    Yeah I would remove Sitrus berry, its really not doing anything for Linoone. Replace it with Lum Berry so that you can get the jump on status (make it the second option though, silk scarf is still more reliable) Shadow Claw is way more important than Seed Bomb so make it the primary slash on the 3rd slot.

    Traditionally, return is used as secondary STAB because E-speed only has 8 pp and you can't sweep that alone. With that said, i'd slash it in the 4th moveslot and mention running Dugtrio or Magneton support to get rid of steel types.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  23. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    All of these are a +6 Espeed

    Sitrus vs 252 / 176 Impish Clefable: 92.1% - 108.4%
    Silk Scarf vs 252 / 176 Impish Clefable: 110.4% - 130.2% (guaranteed OHKO)

    Sitrus vs 4 / 0 Durant: 67.1% - 79.1%
    Silk Scarf vs 4 / 0 Durant: 80.2% - 95% (guaranteed OHKO with SR and one round of LO, or spikes instead of LO)

    Sitrus vs 252 / 0 Ferroseed: 39.2% - 46% (never 2HKO without Spikes)
    Silk Scarf vs 252 / 0 Ferroseed: 46.9% - 55.4% (very often 2HKO with just SR)

    Sitrus vs 252 / 0 Gligar (Eviolite too): 73.1% - 86.2% (never OHKO)
    Silk Scarf vs 252 / 0 Gligar (Eviolite too): 88% - 103.6% (always OHKO with SR)

    Both sets fare equally well against 252 / 252 Impish Gligar (Eviolite too): they both always 2HKO, but the Sitrus set is more liable to be stalled out by Roosting, hitting about 53.3% - 62.9%. Silk Scarf hits about 63.8% - 75.4%, so make of this calc what you will.

    Sitrus vs 4 / 0 Kabutops (I chose this because it would outspeed you before you could Seed Bomb it, so you'd have to use Espeed): 69.8% - 82.4%
    Silk Scarf vs 4 / 0 Kabutops: 83.6% - 98.5% (pretty likely to OHKO with SR)

    Sitrus vs 252 / 252 Impish Mandibuzz: 62.5% - 73.8%
    Silk Scarf vs 252 / 252 Impish Mandibuzz: 75.2% - 88.7% (guaranteed OHKO with SR)

    Sitrus vs 252 / 252 Impish Qwilfish (at +5 from Intimidate): 86.2% - 101.8%
    Silk Scarf vs 252 / 252 Impish Qwilfish (+5): 103.6% - 122.2% (guaranteed OHKO)

    Sitrus vs 252 / 252 Relaxed Tangrowth: 58.2% - 68.6% (needs SR and 3 layers of Spikes to OHKO)
    Silk Scarf vs 252 / 252 Relaxed Tangrowth: 69.8% - 82.4% (likely OHKO with SR and 1 layer of Spikes, guaranteed with 2)

    Sitrus vs 252 / 252 Bold Uxie: 64.7% - 76.3%
    Silk Scarf vs 252 / 252 Bold Uxie: 77.4% - 91.5% (possible OHKO)

    Sitrus vs 252 / 252 Bold Torterra: 67.3% - 79.4%
    Silk Scarf vs 252 / 252 Bold Torterra: 81% - 95.4% (likely OHKO with SR, guaranteed with Spikes)

    Sitrus vs 132 / 0 Klinklang: 57.5% - 67.7%
    Silk Scarf vs 132 / 0 Klinklang: 69% - 81.3%


    'Nuff said.
  24. Molk

    Molk idk
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    yup, silk scarf is going to be the main item, followed by lum berry, this sums it up.
  25. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    QC Approved 2/3

    Sitrus can have an AC mention if you want.

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