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Linoone [QC 3/3] (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by col49, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. col49

    col49 what.
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    [Overview]

    <p>Upon first inspecting Linoone, a couple of choice words come to mind:plain and boring. It sports rather unimpressive stats, the most noteworthy being his nimble base 100 Speed. Not unlike most of his other Normal-type brethren, Linoone possesses a plentiful movepool, but lacks the tools to properly abuse it. However, Linoone is in fact a true diamond in the rough for two reasons: Belly Drum and ExtremeSpeed. Having the ability to skyrocket his Attack to four times its original level, combined with what is arguably the best priority move in the game, Linoone is more than capable of completely dismantling teams that lack a sturdy defensive pivot or physical wall. However, this is where Linoone’s mediocre stats come back to haunt him. His general lack of bulk leaves him at quite the disadvantage when attempting to set up. Nonetheless, Linoone is quite the potent threat with the right team support, and should not be overlooked.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Belly Drummah
    move 1: Belly Drum
    move 2: ExtremeSpeed
    move 3: Shadow Claw
    move 4: Seed Bomb
    item: Sitrus Berry / Silk Scarf
    Ability: Pickup
    Nature: Jolly
    evs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As it stands, this is best set available to Linoone. Belly Drum quickly shoots his measly 239 Attack up to a dangerous 956 in a single turn. Moreover, ExtremeSpeed, in addition to receiving a STAB boost, also grants Linoone the ability to essentially be immune to revenge killing. This is due to the fact ExtremeSpeed not only has priority over common attacks, but also other priority attacks, which eliminates all conventional methods of revenge killing him. Though the remaining two moves appear to be fillers, they cover some rather large blind spots; Shadow Claw grants Linoone a means of hitting Ghost-types, who are immune to ExtremeSpeed. Moreover, Seed Bomb allows Linoone to hit Rock-types, whose natural physical bulk and resistance to ExtremeSpeed would otherwise allow them to wall Linoone. The choice of item is a matter of personal preference. Sitrus Berry allows a bit more leeway when setting up, and grants Linoone a greater chance of surviving long enough to abuse his Belly Drum boost. Silk Scarf, while being harder to set up with, offers a notably more powerful ExtremeSpeed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximize Linoone’s offensive prowess, and provides enough Speed to outspeed Haunter. However, a solid Pursuit user can easily deal with the aforementioned Ghost-type, making any Speed investment basically obsolete. If you do have a Pursuit user on your team, you should shift Linoone's Speed EVs to HP, and give him and Adamant nature. As far as item choice is concerned, Lum Berry is also fairly viable, though it lacks the utility of Sitrus Berry and the power of Silk Scarf</p>

    <p>If there is one thing that you should worry about when using Linoone, it’s teammates. Securing two safe turns for Linoone (the turn he switches in, and the turn he tries to Belly Drum) is the best thing you can do for him. This means dual screens, SubPassing, Memento, and slow U-turns and Volt Switches are all viable, as well as anything that can get Linoone to safely set up. For example, Gardevoir makes a stellar partner for Linoone, being able to set up dual screens, Memento a foe into a weakened state, and even burn them if need be with Will-O-Wisp. Moreover, Musharna is capable of setting up screens for Linoone, in addition to abusing its enormous bulk and low Speed to Baton Pass to Linoone at about the speed of an overweight Snorlax, sometimes even with a huge Substitute to boot.Though rare, Steel-types wall Linoone to Pallet Town and back, so a Pokemon capable of dealing with them, preferably a Fire-type, is recommended.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>To be perfectly frank, you could probably go ahead and skip over this section. Though Linoone does in fact have an expansive movepool, he lacks anything of real competitive weight beyond what has already been mentioned. He does possess Dig and Rock Smash, which offer solid coverage, but with incredibly offsetting cons. Dig takes two turns to execute, allowing the opponent a free turn to switch in a check, the most notable being Haunter. Rock Smash, on the other hand, is way too weak to use seriously, and fails to OHKO a huge slew of relevant Rock- and Steel-types. Linoone was graced with Pursuit, but the use of this move is dubious at best, as most Ghost-types are going to be switching into Linoone as opposed to switching out of him. Flail is also interesting, as Linoone is already decreasing his health, though dropping any of his current moves would instantly leave him susceptible to another threat. Tickle, despite being an utterly adorable option, holds little value on such a frail Pokemon. Lastly there are Trick and Switcheroo. Though these two moves are almost always grounds for a Choice set of some kind, there is simply no pragmatic purpose for them. There are better Pokemon for this task, and wasting such a gift in Belly Drum + ExtremeSpeed that was granted to Linoone is simply a crime.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Due to the nature of Linoone, most conventional counters have dissipated, with the best method stopping him being hitting him with a powerful attack before he can set up. However, Steel-types remain Linoone’s greatest adversary, and can easily stand up to almost any attack Linoone can muster. Moreover, though most Linoone possess Seed Bomb, Unaware Quagsire remains a stoic check, being able to take at least one Seed Bomb and retort with an Earthquake.</p>
  2. Charge

    Charge

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    Aww shucks. I actually wanna do this but am afraid I lack time. But w/e. Do mention that Linoone appreciates SR and Spikes support due to the defensive pivot that are able to take +2 ESpeed. And tbh, BD is the only real viable set. Other shit just doesn't really work out as well.

    Btw, what is the EV Spread for? As in, is there anything he can survive with that or it's just a defensive spread? It's okay either way.

    EDIT: I really doubt Charge Beam can work out as Linoone is really frail and with its pathetic base 50 SpA, it isn't gonna do too much damage, even at +2. And can Sub work out on any of the offensive set up set? Because it might be able to force something out into a Physical wall, allowing him to Sub. But just theorymoning here. Btw, Weezing is one of the Healthy Physically Defensive Wall and should be able to take a +2 ESpeed iirc. Might make some calcs. And he will be able to fuck Linoone with WoW. For the same reason, is Lum Berry a good idea?
  3. tennisace

    tennisace
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    nothing at base 70 uses neutral max speed, its a kind of silly number to hit. Why bother with bulk at all when you're cutting your HP in half anyway? Just make it outspeed +spe 95 (haunter) and you're fine.

    OO should consist of like: flail, pursuit, tickle, and MAYBE switcheroo + choice. if you're using linoone you should be abusing the hell out of BD + Extremespeed.
  4. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    i wrote the RU linoone analysis and MAX hp with dual screens really helped out

    just a suggstion
  5. breh

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    note that outspeeding haunter means running jolly. haunter kind of sucks too so...

    IMO dig/rock smash should be OO. Power Herb Dig? also, remove pretty much everything from OO barring Flail. Pursuit is pretty awful (ghosts switch into linoone, not out of it), hone claws is bad, tickle is bad, special, choice, and quick feet are awful and defeat the point.
  6. Charge

    Charge

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    Mention that Dugtrio is a check as he can switch in and Sucker Punch you. You can escape by being lucky with predictions by avoiding Sucker Punch but generally, he's a check.


    Btw, I tore through some of the teams containing frailer Steels like Magneton. ESpeed OHKOes it no problem but I really don't know what spread are they using so I might be wrong about this.
  7. Omicron

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    Sucker Punch has only +1 priority while ExtremeSpeed has +2, meaning Dugtrio, or anything for that matter, that has Sucker Punch, cannot outmaneuver ExtremeSpeed.
  8. Charge

    Charge

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    I totally forgot about that again. First it's forgetting Kadabra has Magic Guard now this. Lol I'm sorry. Ignore me.
  9. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    Maybe I'm the one misunderstanding things here but I thought that the point of OO was to list sets that aren't effective on x Pokemon and explain why they're bad. Obviously these aren't good options or else they'd have their own sets.
  10. col49

    col49 what.
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    kk, I revised the main spread to outspeed Haunter, mentioning a "bulkier" spread in the AC, stressing the importance of Pursuit users to guarantee he won't have problems with faster Ghosts. Edited the OO to Tenisace's specifications too. I was more or less just hyperbolizing that everything outside of BD+ESpeed is basically terrible on him, so I don't mind :P
  11. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    Why do you keep saying +2? BD makes it +6. I agree with Lum Berry being slashed. Also, to the op, sitrus berry is good in theory, but it just plain sucks in practice. Slash silk scarf first then lum berry
    Magneton is one of the bulkier Steels. How in the hell did you OHKO it "no problem" with a weasel like Linoone?
    A Jolly nature misses out on so much power. I don't know if it's worth it to outspeed one poke and sacrifice killing many more. Make him Adamant with enough speed to outspeed misdreavus or modest rotom. Or make him 252 HP.
  12. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Is there any reason to use Gluttony over Pickup? As far as I'm concerned, Gluttony has no effect on Sitrus Berry and certainly has no effect on Silk Scarf. Pickup at least has the side effect of stealing the opponent's used up consumables when Linoone has used up its own.
  13. col49

    col49 what.
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    Alright, now I'm at somewhat of a standstill :/ I personally have found Sitrus to be most effective in playtesting, as even with screens and such, Linoone finds few times where BD+1 attack from the opponent doesn't KO him, though I have noticed that even w/Adamant it does miss some nice OHKOs with Silk Scarf. As for the spread, I was mostly using Adamant, and it does provide much more power than Jolly a +6, and Haunter is somewhat rare really. So I'd really appreciate a consensus on what should go in main and what should be AC. For now I'll leave the spread as is and mention Lum in the AC.

    Geez, so much controversy for such an obscure poke O_o

    Edit:Yeah, for some reason the whole "Sitrus activates at 50% already" thing didn't click until you mentioned it lol. fixed
  14. tennisace

    tennisace
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    athleteandy, I'm not sure if power is a problem when you are quadrupling your attack in one turn...
  15. col49

    col49 what.
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    So should the spreads be left as they are then?
  16. tennisace

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    Unless someone can give me some calculations why Adamant is significantly better than Jolly then yes, they should stay as they are.
  17. Tendie

    Tendie

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    Has anyone considered using Switcheroo/Trick on Linoone? I think that this would give him significantly more opportunities to get his belly drum up, as he could easily choice lock Pokemon setting up entry hazards or set up sweepers. When they are forced to switch Linoone gets his window of opportunity to Belly Drum and proceed to do as much damage as possible, usually getting at least one KO, if not sweeping the entire team.
  18. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    ^Linoone's defenses are so bad that tricking a CB onto anything could easily put you out of drum range.

    Maxing HP should be in the comments, so that you can take a hit while you drum if need be. 100 base speed is absurdly fast in NU so you might not need all of those EVs.

    The only other thing I'd do is change its ability to Gluttony. Pickup is useless and you mention Sitrus Berry in the comments anyways. Make a note to make your HP divisible by 2 so that Belly Drum makes you automatically get that Sitrus Boost.
  19. Tendie

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    But Linoone only tricks Pokemon into non-damaging moves, such as SR or CM. If you see an obvious tell in team preview that they are leading with stealth rock, you can comfortably open with Linoone and get a free belly drum after you've locked down SR. At the very worst linoone sacrifices itself to choice lock an oponent, in which case you can in turn send out a pokemon that resists the locked move and get a free turn to set up.
  20. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    Sitrus already activates at 50%.
  21. tennisace

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    [​IMG]

    this is good
  22. Omicron

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    Mention Gardevoir as a teammate, it resists Fighting, and has access to Dual Screens, Taunt, and Memento, the perfect set up partner :)

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  23. col49

    col49 what.
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    cake, I was actually running Gardevoir/Musharna in testing him, dunno why I didn't mention it at all :P Ah well, thank ya for the check
  24. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    QC APPROVED 3/3
  25. col49

    col49 what.
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    yayayay :D

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