Little Cup CCAT (Poll now up!): Please see post 142!

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San_Pellegrino

the eternal dreamer
is a Team Rater Alumnus
I am using croagunk right now and it is doing very well. Gastly is NEVER a problem for me, but I haven't yet seen downsides to using Croagunk. I use Sucker Punch | Vacuum Wave | Drain Punch | Toxic / Taunt. Toxic covers Lileep better, while Taunt handles stall and shell smashing.
 
The team is very Scraggy weak, Larvesta is a shaky check at best and more and more of them are starting to run Zen Headbutt so Croagunk isnt that good :l

Also, don't like Stunky, I always lose the mindgames. Switching back to Munchlax.

Edit: Tested a bit more, fake out is better than sub
 

Ray Jay

"Jump first, ask questions later, oui oui!"
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So there has been some time to test this for a while, I think we should get a move on developing what the final team should look like. Which changes that have been discussed should be implemented? Are there perhaps others?

Notable suggestions as of yet:
-Stunky
-Croagunk
-Mienfoo

I think Croagunk really combines Mienfoo and Stunky into one mon, meaning we don't have to sacrifice the revenge killing goodness of Taillow. Of course, you do become slightly more weak to Gastly, but so far I haven't really seen this be a problem for anyone.

Something Prem and I tossed around a long while back was the synergy of Larvesta and Snover. Obviously, Bronzor kills a lot of the momentum offensive teams desire (although he does make up for this with SR). Snover allows the team to beat sandstorm and baits Fighting-types in, which Larvesta loves to handle. The downside to implementing Snover is threefold; we lose entry hazards and reducing Exeggcute's usefulness. Eggy taking residual damage is not always a good thing, and we don't want to be compounding the team's weakness to strong Fire-types (play Staryu carefully). Overall, I think it still a suggestion that merits possible testing.
 

San_Pellegrino

the eternal dreamer
is a Team Rater Alumnus
The benefits of using a Mienfoo or Stunky, even both, in contrast to Croagunk is that we will have an inevitably easier time facing Gastly. But when weighed against Croagunk, we can see that Croagunk covers more ground than either of the two other choices. It possesses a resistance to Toxic and resists Energy Ball, meaning Lileep is much easier to deal with. With the toxic gunk set I run, Larvesta is dealt with as well. Gastly is almost never an issue in practice for one reason I can conjure, that being our use of Scrappy on Taillow.

Ray Jay, I like the idea of Snover, but by replacing Bronzor, we now lack a solid switch in to some of the most dangerous threats in LC at the moment, scarfed Flying-types. Scarf Taillow could easily sweep our team, our only course of action letting something get KO'ed, then revenging with Sucker Punch from either Stunky or Croagunk (we currently have no SP users, which is disheartening). If anything, the best Snover set would be Nails' Grasswhistle Snover over Exeggecute, it is the only real way to fit it on the team without crippling the rest of the members, and guess what? It removes the one pokemon we NEED for the CCAT. If you guys can see any other place to put a Snover on, please do tell. But because of those reasons, I don't think Snover is necessary to the team.
 

Crux

Banned deucer.
Gunk is probably the best option. The team has no problems with Gastly with it, nor any other mon afaik.

Something like Sucker Punch / Fake Out / Vacuum Wave / Filler. Feel free to test this out for yourselves, as I think that with gunk this team is just about done!
 

Ray Jay

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Hello,

I would just like to, as politely as possible, say that I am slightly dissappointed with this CCAT. The beginning of this thread (See the first 2 or so pages) actually was very incredible, and is an ideal model of what should be done in a CCAT.

However, I was a little disheartened when I saw two things:

1.) The vague decision on playstyle that meant we didn't have to choose between bulky offense or hyper offense

2.) EM's suggestions were the only ones taken into account from this thread when building the team itself. Specifically, Larvesta and Staryu. I am not doubting EM's prowess as a player at all (probably the best of all LC players), but especially towards the end, there was simply some great discussion about Omanyte and Tirtouga from very good players (which actually are somewhat inventive sets), and even talks about Ponyta, who is slowly falling out of the limelight for seemingly no reason.

Then, an incomplete team of 5 pokes was posted after "some deliberation" with other people. I actually have no idea who these other people were, other than EM. I'm not trying to say that I should have been asked for my opinion or whatever, because I don't think I'm all that, I'm saying that there was some seriously great discussion that was all ignored.

Finally, and perhaps the most distressing to me, was when I simply stated I was having a tough time with the team and I was attacked because "the team is just really hard to use." Next, on irc, prem and I were discussing synergy of Snover and Larvesta (read: as a side note) and Crux got upset at me, basically telling me to stop because Croagunk was the only change he was going to consider (if I misunderstood your tone in any of this Crux, I do apologize)-- and let's not forget who suggested Croagunk in the first place.

To Crux and everyone else, just note that I am not upset at you, and do not take this as a personal attack. I would just ask that if we do this again, that some of these points be taken into account.
 
I actually wholeheartedly agree with Ray Jay. It was a CCAT until we chose Exeggcute. After that, it became a "let's have well known LC players build a team together and then tell you how it goes."

I don't like how this went, either.
 

Crux

Banned deucer.
The reason EM and I practically built the team is because of a general lack of participation post play style choice. Yes you made suggestions, but that doesnt mean it automatically gets a place on the team, we looked at everyone's suggestions when building the team and felt that stuff like Omanyte really would not work as well as you said it would. The reason EM's decisions were taken is because they were the best. Don't feel bitter about me not taking your suggestions, I had to push something through in order to get the participation that has simply not been happening. The reason the team was "incomplete" is because I c/p'd wrong.

The reason Ponyta fell out of the limelight is because it is outclassed my Larvesta on this team. The same with Tirtouga and Omanyte when compared to Staryu given the chosen Pokemon.

In case you have not noticed, I have been asking for help for weeks now. I personally believe the Croagunk is the best choice as it makes this team very good without destroying some of the integral parts it has, as some of the other suggestions would do, or making it weak to a major threat. At no stage was I angry with you, (just because I said Snover wouldn't work you are hurt????) however at the moment I am rather pissed off that you are complaining about not being given a chance to help when I have been asking for ages now.

I do not want the thread derailed by this, so if you have any complaints pm me or talk to me on IRC.


My intention is to have this team completed by the end of the month so that it may feature in the smog, and complaining isn't fixing anything. As I have stated, I feel Croagunk should replace Munchlax. Are there any disagreements on that point or any other changes that people have been considering and have failed to post?
 
Reviving this thread!

I'm not so sure as to where this team lies ATM, but I do have a few suggestions!

How about removing Bronzor and Munchlax/Stunky/Mienfoo/whatever and putting in a lead Dwebble (because ss would completely steal the spotlight from Eggy) and defensive lileep over Bronzor? I know that this team has a problem with sand but if Dwebble gets rocks and spikes down then it becomes THAT much easier for Lileep to KO Drilbur! Lileep can KO Drilbur at like 80 % health so as long as Lileep has over 75% health and Drilbur isn't carrying a Life Orb, it's a win/win! We get a solid special wall (that works even better in sandstorm) and doesn't even share weaknesses with exeggcute! Sure, it's weak to fighting, but that's why we have Larvesta! And with the extra entry hazards that Dwebble can set up, Exeggcute can force more switches and whatnot, racking up even more damage!

I think I overdid it with the exclamation points but whatever.
 
Reviving this thread!

I'm not so sure as to where this team lies ATM, but I do have a few suggestions!

How about removing Bronzor and Munchlax/Stunky/Mienfoo/whatever and putting in a lead Dwebble (because ss would completely steal the spotlight from Eggy) and defensive lileep over Bronzor? I know that this team has a problem with sand but if Dwebble gets rocks and spikes down then it becomes THAT much easier for Lileep to KO Drilbur! Lileep can KO Drilbur at like 80 % health so as long as Lileep has over 75% health and Drilbur isn't carrying a Life Orb, it's a win/win! We get a solid special wall (that works even better in sandstorm) and doesn't even share weaknesses with exeggcute! Sure, it's weak to fighting, but that's why we have Larvesta! And with the extra entry hazards that Dwebble can set up, Exeggcute can force more switches and whatnot, racking up even more damage!

I think I overdid it with the exclamation points but whatever.
can't agree more with this
 
Agreeing mostly with comatt except for the fact that Mienfoo should stay. We need an offensive pivot that can take a hit and maintain pressure on the opponent, and Mienfoo not only plays that role perfectly, but it works well with the rest of the team.
 
Hey guys we are nearing completion of this team so I would like more input from you guys so we can get it done and show it off to the world!

Taillow (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Quick Attack
- Frustration

Larvesta (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 236 HP / 156 Def / 116 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Morning Sun
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn

Staryu @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 116 HP / 116 SAtk / 236 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Exeggcute (M) @ Oran Berry
Trait: Harvest
EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 196 SAtk / 196 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Psychic
- Substitute
- Sleep Powder

Croagunk (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 52 HP / 188 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SDef / 36 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out
- Payback

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 220 HP / 8 Atk / 152 Def / 4 SAtk / 68 SDef / 12 Spd
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic
- Earthquake
- Toxic


Any comments/concerns/criticisms are much appreciated!!!

EDIT 1: Bronzor update installed
EDIT 2: Croagunk update installed
 

Furai

we will become who we are meant to be
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Owned hard by Drilbur, like Exeggcute is our only check so if it's more offensive we're screwed. To be honest I don't get why we have both Munchlax and Lileep, both are doing the same job. One should go imo.

EDIT: And no Lileep isn't that reliable either. Plus we have no form of Priority at all so we cannot revenge it!
 

iss

let's play bw lc!
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Yeah, what Furai said. Despite how much I hate it, I'd suggest Bronzor over Lileep. We can still set up SR, and we have Staryu to take Fire moves.
 
I like that suggestion. Bronzor gives us a great Stealth Rocker, can take hits like a champ, doesn't give a fuck about Toxic, and gives this team something of a "lead". Also, Lileep isn't really OHKOed by Drilbur unless it has a Life Orb and even then I'm pretty sure that max+ Def isn't KOed by it. Just my personal bias.

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 220 HP / 8 Atk / 152 Def / 4 SAtk / 68 SDef / 12 Spd
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic
- Earthquake
- Toxic

That look good??

EDIT: Also, I've been thinking of throwing in Mienfoo over Munchlax. Thoughts?
 
yeah i was thinking bronzor though i didn't post it though - it gives us a more solid check to drilbur too now that levitate cancels eq and we resist rock slide.
 

Furai

we will become who we are meant to be
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
deja vu Bronzor teheheh


And I'm against Mienfoo>Munchy, it would just make us weaker to Gastly and Chinchou!
 
Guys imma let you all finish but the bronzor team was the same as the original one made... any other suggestions or is this DONE?
 
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