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Little Wing (Uber)

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by TeaBag, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. TeaBag

    TeaBag

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    126
    Without a doubt this is the most successful Uber team I've ever committed to. However due to the limited number of players active at any moment on the Smogon Uber ladder many regulars now know my team from the inside out; regretfully, this team's time is up and a retirement is in order. But before I forsake this team I'll make one more attempt at improvements through the colloquial advice of the community.

    here is the damn team

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

    Darkrai @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Bad Dreams
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    - Dark Pulse
    - Dark Void
    - Nasty Plot
    - Substitute

    As the metagame stands today, anti-Choice Scarf Darkrai leads a la Lum Berry Dialga / Groudon are arguably more common than the former itself. Thus Lum Berry Darkrai suits the lead role rather effectively allowing a simultaneous bluff of Choice Scarf as well as the safety of Lum Berry.

    Ideally, my opponent leads with said Choice Scarf Darkrai and has enough balls to risk a supposed speed tie, upon which I Substitute forcing a switch; from here, it's textbook elementary tactics.

    In the case of other anti-leads I am presented with the dilemma of predicting whether the opponent will Thunder Wave or Earthquake / Draco Meteor. Depending on the tingle in my balls at the moment I will either Dark Void twice to break both berries or run to an appropriate counter to take the hit.

    Choice Scarf Mewtwo will Focus Blast -- go to Jirachi, etc.

    [​IMG]

    Dialga @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 240 HP / 136 SpA / 120 SpD / 12 Spe
    Nature: Modest
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave
    - Draco Meteor
    - Aura Sphere

    This is the Pokemon I have the most qualms about. It gives a solid switch into many Choice Scarf users -- Garchomp's Outrage, Kyogre's Water Spout, Palkia's whatever are all 3HKO -- but fails against Choice Band / Specs users. However, I can play around with Choice Specs Kyogre / Palkia, Choice Band Garchomp, etc. because much of my team can outran and effectively disable these threats (Darkrai's Dark Void, Garchomp's Dragon Claw, etc.).

    Stealth Rock is standard, Thunder Wave / Aura Sphere catch Darkrai, Draco Meteor lol (12 EVs in speed to outrun most support Groudon while still retaining 401 HP).

    The said qualms are manifested over the option to run a physical support set a la Adamant 240 / 136 / 120 / 12 with Outrage / Dragon Claw, Brick Break over Draco Meteor, Aura Sphere. A physical set retains the ability to check said Choice Scarf threats as well as Darkrai (at least to the extent the special set does) but allows me to beat Calm Mind Kyogre which can traditionally set up on Draco Meteor, not to mention Blissey, Latias, etc.

    Also considering Shuca / Chople Berry.

    [​IMG]

    Kyogre @ Life Orb
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder

    Offensive Calm Mind Kyogre is really only stopped by Blissey and faster physical Pokemon that can KO in time. I run Timid over my old spread of Modest 120 / 252 / 136 because I have balls and risk speed ties with Jolly Swords Dance Groudon (Dialga's Thunder Wave can't compensate for this one) which gives my team the shaft. Life Orb over Leftovers to be able to dish out plenty of damage if I can't get a Calm Mind in.

    This is standard shit -- I can survive Choice Specs Kyogre's Thunder after a Calm Mind and KO with one of my own, does ~50% to most Blissey after a Calm Mind which means stall gets the shaft if Blissey is weakened, etc.

    [​IMG]

    Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Toxic

    In a metagame ridden with Choice Scarf Palkia, base 102 speed is truely a Godsend. Choice Scarf Garchomp is also my insurance against Rayquaza, outspeeding Jolly renditions after a Dragon Dance as well as surviving an Adamant Life Orb Swords Dance ExtremeSpeed.

    The oddball of the set, Toxic, is an underrated and once unexpected lol tool that allows Garchomp to cripple its paper counter, Lugia. Often against dedicated stall teams it's my lead move because all experienced players are guaranteed to carry Lugia on stall. Once Lugia is poisoned, Rayquaza because a bitch to handle (especially Bold 252 / 52 / 204 variations -- I'll cover it later).

    late game sweeps with Outrage, etc. standard shit

    [​IMG]

    Rayquaza @ Life Orb
    Ability: Air Lock
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Overheat

    I would run Swords Dance here if not for Bold 252 / 8 / 248 Lugia with Ice Beam. Dragon Dance Rayquaza takes said Lugia (the most common) down with Outrage after Stealth Rock damage. Even if Rayquaza is revenged by Scizor, etc. afterwards, Garchomp's easily has a clear shot at ravaging the opponent's team with 499 speed STAB Outrages.

    I run Jolly over Adamant to outspeed +speed Kyogre before a Dragon Dance, a necessity for this team. However, Jolly Rayquaza only has ~66% chance of an OHKO on a Bold 252 / 52 / 204 Lugia with Outrage after a Dragon Dance and Life Orb while Adamant nets a guaranteed OHKO under said circumstances (both chances diminish greatly if Lugia is 252 / 176 / 80 or whatever). But this is where Rayquaza's key synergy with Garchomp comes into play -- a weakened, poisoned Lugia is easily dealt with, opening the rest of the team up to a Rayquaza sweep.

    Overheat is for Forretress while ExtremeSpeed allows me to revenge weakened Mewtwo, etc. without a boost as well as pick off Choice Scarf Darkrai trying to end my sweep. Earthquake isn't a necessity as Metagross falls Overheat and Dialga falls Outrage; Jirachi and Heatran are bleh but uncommon.

    [​IMG]

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
    Nature: Careful
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - U-turn

    My ace in the hole. Aside from walling Choice Darkrai / Palkia, Latias, etc. left and right, Wish Jirachi keeps Rayquaza, Kyogre, etc. healthy from Life Orb and Stealth Rock. Toxic deals with said Latias (no Substitute please) and the rare Wobbuffet and Ludicolo lol. It also makes a solid switch into Choice Scarf Garchomp's Outrage, as it fails to 3HKO with given EVs (IIRC Earthquake doesn't OHKO either).

    simple yet a real bitch to take down

    yes I am weak to Rock Polish Groudon

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    danke for reading ^_^
  2. TeaBag

    TeaBag

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    126
    hump de bump
  3. locopoke

    locopoke indulges in unsavory behavior
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    I don't know if this is too late to post on an RMT, but I was looking through some old pages and I saw that this didn't get any replies so I felt like giving my input. First of all, I think it's an excellent team TeaBag, you certainly did a nice job, just a few minor nitpicks. I would personally not use the Kyogre you're using. Calm Mind is alright, but I really don't like the idea of Life Orb, I think that a Calm Minding Kyogre needs to have some bulk so it can stay alive longer. This is what I would replace it with:

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 240 HP / 244 Def / 24 Spe
    Modest nature (+SAtk,-Atk)
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk
    -Calm Mind
    -Surf

    If you don't like the idea of being completely walled by Parasect and Quagsire, then I'd use the "Substitute + Calm Mind" moveset located on the Analysis Page.

    Also I think that Dialga using Stealth Rock is only good as a lead. From experience, the Darkrai you're using, is an amazing lead, so even though Stealth Rock is very helpful, I would suggest changing that Dialga to possibly Bulk-Up Dialga, but that's your choice.

    That's about it, and again, nice team. I'm surprised you didn't get any comments =\
  4. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

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    You said you have problem dealing with Choice Specs and Band users. Perhaps you could try more "general" walls in place of Dialga and Jirachi. They wall more threats than the two combined:


    Skarmory - Leftovers
    Bold
    Stealth Rock
    Spikes
    Roost
    Whirlwind
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

    A great physical wall. Most Groudon lack Fire Punch, meaning Skarmory can wall him to no end, setting up Stealth Rock and Spikes in the process. Makes a great Rayquaza, Scizor and Garchomp wall too, as long as he avoids Overheat. He can also absorb Outrage for the team, and he is, by far, the best Bulk-Up Dialga counter in the game. Whirlwind has great synergy with Spikes and Stealth Rock. Brave Bird is absent, for it deals pitiful damage to most Ubers, and he won't find the time to be attacking. As well, Taunt is rarely seen in Ubers - the most common Taunt user, Mewtwo, is more often seen with other moves nor would you leave Skarmory in on him anyways. He is a physical wall; the EVs reflect that. Oh, and by the way, you should be happy if Wobbuffet comes in, for he'll switch-in as you set up SR, then you can just use Spikes as he Encores you. Tickle isn't of much concern thanks to his Steel Typing (and Spikes is very deadly against the many grounded Ubers). You can probably guess who his teammate is.

    Blissey - Leftovers
    Calm
    Toxic
    Wish
    Protect
    Seimsic Toss
    252 Def / 252 SDef / 4 HP

    Walls any special threat except SpecsOgre, though hopefully, Skarmory's entry hazards will soon make Kyogre incapable of 2HKOing Blissey. Beats Darkrai, Paklia and even Substitute Latias with Seimsic Toss. If Palkia has Outrage, just send in Skarmory to take the hit. U-turn is absent, unfortunately, but Blissey is expected to live longer than Jirachi with her completely superior HP and SDef. Should Wobbuffet come... well, he hates Toxic. The EVs in Def are so that she doesn't take too much damage from Scizor (barring Superpower) or Palkia's Aqua Tail or Outrage as well as other suprise physical attacks.


    You do give up Pressure and Thunderwave with his duo, but they both have reliable healing options, and can still PP stall effectively, especially against Outrage.
  5. pokeboss9

    pokeboss9

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    56
    So lets take a look at your team,


    Darkrai:
    This lead is ok. Only Substitute is a discussible move. On the hand it blocks but on the other Darkrai is still 2HKO by the most uber attacks.

    Diagla:
    Only 2 attcks, after the SpA drop it has to switch out, not a good set. Like locopoke i think the Bulk up set will work better for you. Perhaps Lugia can do his job better.

    Kyogre: I personally like this set. Its strong and effective.

    Garchomp: Good revenge killer with a surprising move. Nice.

    Rayquaza: Again a cool set. But be careful with his set, you have not more than 2-3 switch ins. Any faster scarf user will stop you and they are very common.

    Jirachi: This hurts. Its a magnet for many boosting move users and other non-psychic-sweeper. I advise you this set (the set i used on Jirachi).

    252/0/128/0/0/128 careful
    Light-Clay / Leftovers
    -Stealth Rock
    -Wish
    -Body Slam
    -Light screen/ Filter


    And yes, every team without Lugia, Giratina/-o is a bit weak to Groudon.
    Skarmbliss does not counter Groudon! SD/EQ/FP/Filter = Goodbye skarmbliss.
  6. TeaBag

    TeaBag

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    126
    yay thanks for the replies ^_^

    I'm not a huge fan of Cro sets in general, especially the aforementioned because it allows Rayquaza to setup it its face (and I really can only hope to beat Swords Dance Ray if Garchomp is healthy). Of course I could run Ice Beam over Calm Mind but then Calm Mind Giratina, etc. can setup. I would only run Rest + Sleep Talk as a status absorber and my team doesn't need one.

    However Substitute + Calm Mind is definitely an option, although I opt for a spread of 4 / 252 / 252 rather than 252 / 252 / 4 because 1. I need to tie Jolly Groudon and 2. my team has two good switches into Blissey's Seismic Toss (no Bliss would status a Kyogre with a Sub up).

    Skarm definitely is an attractive option considering my heavy Groudon weakness. Of course I'll have to use Whirlwind quite liberally to prevent Kyogre, Palkia, etc. from switching in for free -- will definitely test over Dialga.

    To be honest the advantages Bliss has over Jirachi don't compensate for the loss of U-turn. I am an absolute U-turn whore and it really is needed to aid my often elementary prediction. A second switch into Outrage is welcome as well.

    I have tested a new lead with fair success

    Shaymin-S @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    - Air Slash
    - Grass Knot
    - Seed Flare
    - Earth Power

    127 base speed is comparable to Garchomp's 102 advantage. I don't like the idea of two Choice Scarfers, but it deals with the now uncommon Choice Scarf Darkrai lead and flinch is always fun. Grass Knot + Seed Flare for PP issues and what else could I really put in that slot anyways.

    toot-toot

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