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#littlecup Teambuilding Sessions

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by Elevator Music, Aug 21, 2012.

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  1. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
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    You're basically saying that after you let your counter to pokemon x die, pokemon x does very well against the team. If you're that worried about it, add Croagunk back into the team.
  2. blarajan

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    Log: http://pastebin.com/WjM8zpER

    We decided to make a really offensive team tonight, and based it on Life Orb Staryu: Life Orb Staryu / Dual Screen Natu / Focus Sash Stealth Rock Memento Diglett / Shell Smash Tirtouga / Substitute Nasty Plot Misdreavus / Rain Dance Mantyke

    Synopsis: To begin the team, we began with Life Orb Staryu. Life Orb Staryu allowed us to do something more different with this session—make a very offensive team. Life Orb Staryu was a powerful wallbreaker and an incredibly potent special attacker. However, it did have some problems, mainly its low bulk without Eviolite, and Pokemon such as Lileep, Ferroseed, Diglett, Murkrow, etc. The next Pokemon that we chose was incredibly important for determining the layout of the team. The next teammate, since this was an offensive team, would push us in a particular direction offense wise. The first teammate we chose was Dual Screens Natu. This solidified the fact that we'd be running Dual Screens offense. Natu was a perfect Pokemon for this role as it prevented hazards from coming up as well, is fast, and has STAB Flying-type attacks for opposing Fighting-type Pokemon. It is also a fantastic switch-in to Diglett and Ferroseed, two problems for Staryu. With Screens we also remedied Staryu's poor bulk without Eviolite, and gave us the opportunity to run more frail, or even Stealth Rock weak, sweepers.

    Now that we had these two chosen, we recognized the need for more Speed, Stealth Rock, and more opportunities to allow set up Pokemon. These qualities combined only allow for Stealth Rock Diglett, which seemed like a perfect addition for the team at this point. It posed as an Electric-type resist, since with both Natu and Staryu, we were looking incredibly weak to Chinchou. Furthermore, it provided us nearly guaranteed Stealth Rock due to Diglett's high speed. We gave Diglett a Focus Sash, because with Natu on the team, it was very likely we could keep the Focus Sash up until we had to trap or hit something important, like opposing Mienfoo or something. The crucial thing that Diglett brought to the table was Memento, however. Memento gave us even more opportunities to set up, especially if we don't have time to put Screens up in that particular game. With Diglett, our team is Dual Screens Natu / Diglett / Life Orb Staryu. Looking at it, we found that we had fantastic opportunities for set up, and an incredible wall breaker that allowed for easier sweeping. We weren't particularly looking for partners necessarily to help Staryu sweep, but instead to abuse the components of the team as a whole and to sweep on its own.

    Unfortunately, Murkrow checks the majority of offense teams, and ours was no exception, having three Pokemon OHKOed by Life Orb Sucker Punch. Furthermore, Drilbur punishes offensive teams like ours, OHKOing everything with its Life Orb set. We had some issues with Larvesta and Fire-type Pokemon here too, like Houndour. We saw these problems and identified Shell Smash Tirtouga as the absolutely perfect sweeper to add to the bunch. Tirtouga checked pretty much all of these Pokemon we had issues with by nature of its typing or access to priority STAB Aqua Jet. Furthermore, after a Shell Smash, it is able to outrun and OHKO many problematic Pokemon, such as Misdreavus, Scraggy, and some Mienfoo (especially if hit by a Diglett Earthquake). Tirtouga's combination of power, priority, and resistances made it a natural addition to plug some holes on this team. Furthermore, its ability Sturdy was abuseable due to our Natu. With Tirtouga's nearly seamless addition, we were looking at Natu / Diglett / Staryu / Tirtouga.

    Unfortunately, this team was still weak to Drilbur, especially if Tirtouga's Sturdy is broken, or if it's busy handling Murkrow. We're looking at issues with common Pokemon such as Scarf Snover, as well, along with a still very noticeable weakness to a well played Mienfoo. Specially Defensive Timburr posed a problem as well, seeing as our only Fighting resistance Natu didn't have Eviolite, and was dispatched by Timburr's coverage options. Special Attacks in general were also incredibly difficult to switch into. To patch up these problems, while also providing increased Speed and offensive pressure, we decided on Eviolite Nasty Plot Misdreavus for the next addition. With Nasty Plot, Shadow Ball, and Hidden Power Fighting set in stone, we as a whole debated on the last slot. Initially, the two contenders were Destiny Bond and Taunt. Destiny Bond's primary use was deterring Murkrow, so it did not Sucker Punch, while Taunt's purpose was to avoid status from Pokemon such as Lileep, who this Misdreavus is trying to check. Eventually, we compromised, and used Substitute, which allowed Misdreavus to do both. It checked a lot of threats for the team, and was an incredible addition. It also posed as a spin blocker, but that wasn't its main goal.

    Finally, we needed one last Pokemon. We looked at this team and saw that we were still beaten by Drilbur if anything happened to Tirtouga. Furthermore, in general, this team is rather slow, since nothing can outrun Choice Scarf anything, except for Tirtouga at +2 being able to outrun Choice Scarf 14 Speed Pokemon. Plus, with all of the hard hitting we were doing, we would only really need a cleaner end game. We decided our final Pokemon should be an Agility user, which lets us outrun and kill everything at the end game, including a Drilbur waiting in the wings or a Choice Scarf Misdreavus. Due to the pressure we put on Ferroseed and Lileep with our entire team, we started looking at Agility Chinchou to clean. Its combination of good coverage and strong Special Attack seemed like a perfect choice. However, someone brought up a Swift Swim sweeper instead. We looked at this, and realized it was even better than an Agility user. As of now, we have two strong Water-type Pokemon in Staryu and Tirtouga. Their STAB moves are boosted even further under Rain Dance. Furthermore, Tirtouga and Diglett lose Sturdy / Focus Sash in Hail, and Rain would mitigate this. Finally, the occasional Jolly Drilbur in Sand still beats Agility Chinchou, making a Swift Swim user a perfect Pokemon to end the team with. We eventually decided on Mantyke, since it acted as a relatively good Snover check, which we were still weak to, had STAB Air Slash to dispatch of Fighting-type Pokemon, and because it's really cute. Finally, our team ended as: Dual Screens Natu / Focus Sash Memento Diglett / Life Orb Staryu / Shell Smash Tirtouga / Eviolite Nasty Plot Misdreavus / Life Orb Rain Dance Mantyke. When looking at this team, one might notice the staggering four Electric-type weaknesses. However, this is really not that bad of a thing. The two most common users of Electric-type attacks in Little Cup, Chinchou and Magnemite, are all dispatched by Diglett. It puts a lot of pressure on them, as they're scared of using their Electric-type attacks in case Diglett comes in and traps them, and can't really afford to predict Diglett due to the three Water-type Pokemon on the tier.

    In the end, we churned out a very effective and strong offensive team for the Little Cup tier, a difficult feat. It doesn't particularly focus on sponging hits or checking threats (except for a few staples like Murkrow, Mienfoo, Snover, Drilbur, Timburr), but instead focuses on putting a lot of offensive pressure on the opponent to allow our sweepers to sweep. With Dual Screens and Memento support, it's very easy to set up with any of our sweepers, and even gives Misdreavus the ability to set up AND keep its Substitute, or for Tirtouga to keep a reasonable amount of health.

    Team: http://pastebin.com/SwSCrP7P
    Importable version (open)
    Mantyke (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 36 Def / 200 SAtk / 36 SDef / 196 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Air Slash
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Tirtouga (M) @ Splash Plate
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 84 HP / 212 Atk / 12 Def / 180 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Shell Smash
    - Aqua Tail
    - Stone Edge
    - Aqua Jet

    Staryu @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 200 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Psychic

    Natu (M) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Def / 200 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - U-turn

    Diglett (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Memento
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide

    Misdreavus (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 240 SAtk / 240 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]


    Notes: Mantyke's HP IV will need to be lowered to 2 to give it 19 HP, so it will only take 1 HP damage from Life Orb recoil.
  3. viashinomage

    viashinomage

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    it was a pretty beast team to work with. Intially i thought they would be all glass cannons: dying one for one, but each game i played, i've only needed 1 or 2 pokes to do the job, 3 at the max

    note: i butchered the 6-0 in the first ever game with it. sorry guys :/
  4. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    I posted the synopsis.
  5. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    The synopsis will be up shortly

    Log: http://pastebin.com/HDhk4PH1

    This time, we decided to do something simple and make a sand team with Substitute/Swords Dance Drilbur. Right from the start, this meant we would use Hippopotas as well. The final product seems very solid (sand usually is), though it might have problems with opposing sand, and Knock Off Mienfoo might be irritating.

    Synopsis: Offensive sand is fairly straightforward in teambuilding. By default, it requires Drilbur and Hippopotas. Drilbur is a fantastic Pokemon in Little Cup with very few counters and checks (this is why its suspect at the time of writing), so offensive sand teams usually focus on removing Drilbur's few checks, while making sure they have means of handling the standard anti-sand Pokemon and other top threats. McMeghan suggested that instead of using Stealth Rock on Hippopotas like most sand teams do, we use it on another Pokemon that Staryu can't easily switch in and spin against. Our options here were limited, as there aren't many Pokemon that can do that. In fact, it's pretty much limited to Lileep and Ferroseed (I suppose there are other Pokemon such as Turtwig, but Lileep and Ferroseed fit better on a sand team). Lileep is an absolute monster in sand, so we chose to use it for Stealth Rock. Since we weren't using Stealth Rock on Hippopotas, this meant that was could use another move in its place. We chose Rock Slide, because it hit both Murkrow and Snover super effectively, though other options such as Superpower and Crunch were considered as well.

    Hippopotas, Drilbur, and Lileep are staples on sand, but they still leave the team open to Snover. Snover is easily the most anti-sand Pokemon in LC, having Snow Warning to negate Sandstream and Grass and Ice STABs that hit most members of a sand team super effectively. Thus, it was crucial that our next few members have some way of combating Snover, otherwise the team would be straight up destroyed by it. There were a few suggestions for the next Pokemon, such as Houndour, Larvesta, Magnemite, and Bronzor. Macle then suggested Munchlax, which was well received by everyone in the chat as it is fairly underutilized in today's metagame. With Thick Fat, ridiculous special bulk, and ways to nail Snover in Fire Punch and Pursuit, Munchlax is a good way of removing Snover.

    With those four Pokemon, the team has a solid backbone, but it still has problems with many common metagame Pokemon. Fighting-types such as Mienfoo and Timburr can easily threaten Lileep and Munchlax, and from there the whole team. Additionally, while the team lacks Pokemon weak to Murkrow, it also doesn't have a Pokemon that can comfortably switch in on it, so if any future teammates are Murkrow bait it will become a problem. Furthermore, the team still lacks a reliable way of wearing down Bronzor and Grass-types (the main checks to Drilbur). Larvesta and Staryu were suggested as teammates, but since Larvesta has trouble against Murkrow and Staryu cannot handle it, it wasn't the best idea (Larvesta's form of recovery is also nerfed in sand, which doesn't help). People suggested Shelmet to handle Fighting-types, which doesn't absolutely require Rapid Spin support like Larvesta does. This means that we could dedicate the last Pokemon to being a Pokemon that can tank Murkrow and threaten Bronzor/Grass-types while no longer having to worry about Fighting-types. The obvious choice was Magnemite, who resists Brave Bird and Sucker Punch (and can take a Heat Wave at full health with Eviolite), traps Bronzor, and can switch in on Shroomish and Foongus. It also helps out more against Snover, which is beneficial to the team. This does leave the team with 3 Fighting weaknesses, and perhaps a little shaky against opposing sand, but overall it is still quite solid.

    Team: http://pastebin.com/dAxm9SA5
    Importable version (open)
    Drilbur @ Eviolite
    Trait: Sand Rush
    Level: 5
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 212 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Shadow Claw

    Hippopotas @ Eviolite
    Trait: Sand Stream
    Level: 5
    EVs: 132 HP / 20 Atk / 212 Def / 100 SDef / 20 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off
    - Rock Slide
    - Whirlwind

    Lileep @ Eviolite
    Trait: Storm Drain
    Level: 5
    EVs: 228 HP / 220 Def / 60 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Recover
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic

    Munchlax @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    Level: 5
    EVs: 236 Atk / 236 SDef / 36 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Fire Punch
    - Focus Punch
    - Pursuit

    Shelmet @ Eviolite
    Trait: Shell Armor
    Level: 5
    EVs: 116 HP / 156 Def / 236 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Bug Buzz
    - Recover
    - Acid Armor
    - Spikes

    Magnemite @ Eviolite
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    Level: 5
    EVs: 156 HP / 36 Def / 240 SAtk / 76 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Magnet Rise
    - Volt Switch
    - Flash Cannon
    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    That's it! Rate and enjoy, etc
  6. KingTorterraXIV

    KingTorterraXIV

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    It's harder for me to get to the Teambuilding Sessions, with school and shit, but that looks like a pretty good team :)
  7. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    We apologize for no one being here who could have hosted tonight's session--all of the hosts had other engagements and weren't here. Plus a break in these isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    We'll have the one on Thursday as planned.
  8. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    Yep, sorry guys. :( It won't happen again in the near future.

    In other news, I finally put up the synopsis for last Thursday's session.
  9. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    We did start a teambuilding session tonight, but nobody seemed to be online and participating, so instead of talking to a wall we decided to postpone it. We'll also be taking a break from these for one week, in order to get ourselves more organized with our new college schedules.

    On that note, for a while now we have been discussion changing the time and frequency of these sessions. Both blarajan and I think doing this once a week on Wednesdays at 4 PM EDT could work to help appease our European crowd. What do you guys think? Know that the two of use lead busy lives of our own (actually blarajan probably doesn't but w/e), so some times are off limits because we can't reliably show up week after week.


    One more thing. We will also be making RMTs of the teams we made in previous sessions (and future sessions). Those will be posted shortly, probably within a few days, and you can all give feedback on individual teams in those threads so this thread will become less cluttered.
  10. KingTorterraXIV

    KingTorterraXIV

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    Well 4 PM EDT will make it impossible for me to attend, cause that's like 1 PM PST, and I'm in school during that time. I don't know if anyone else has the same problem, but w/e.

    I think we should like take a tally for people that want to come to the sessions, and like see if there's a time can be made that is available to most people ( I know, since everyone is so spread out, it wont work for everyone :()

    I do like the one week session, cause for me, I was having trouble finding time, on all different days, i think having it on one day would work
  11. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Actually, it might be more fair to just appease the europeans for a while. After all we kinda stabbed them big time due to not having good times for them previously, and many of those in the american time zones are openly somewhat burned out.

    Also Smogon fully condones ditching your last period class to play Pokemon
  12. KingTorterraXIV

    KingTorterraXIV

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    Yeah I know, cause Europeans feel so left out. D:

    Too bad my computer is like 40 minutes away, so meh. (The computers we have at school suck anyway.)

    I totally understand it's for the Europeans though, I'll just ask everyone else what happened anyway.
  13. blarajan

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    Fuck you, I do have a busy life. But yeah, that's the problem--the main hosts, EM and myself, are both in college, and doing things. Preferably, I'd like to have at least one of us per session. But as we've been seeing with the more recent ones, the crowd coming have been primarily the same, and people aren't really getting that much out of it for these. If we can make this more accessible to more people, or at least get more interest for the project, that would be great. I'm also getting a bit burned out too, so the one week off to get ourselves more organized is definitely a good thing. Expect RMTs up for every team we have made soon. Official rates will be nice.
  14. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

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    Have we got anyone who will be able to host some teambuilding sessions that would be convenient for europeans? I know we already have at least three pretty good LC players in Europe: corkscrew, myself, and I think metsrule as well(?)

    I'm happy to give rates to the teams coming up.
  15. Rowan

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    Well I don't know about you, but I don't feel confident enough in my teambuilding skills to lead one of these. I'd be much more comfortable if Blara or Em were there. 4pm EDT is good for me though, so I would turn up to ones that are euro-friendly.
  16. blarajan

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    Unfortunately, and I mean no offense to you at all spuds, and really appreciate your offers to help, I really don't feel comfortable with these being "led" by anyone other than em, myself, ray jay, iss, and prem (LOL AT THESE LAST TWO). I have no doubt that you are all excellent LC players and teambuilders, but I don't at least have much knowledge of what you know or how you can explain what you know to those who don't (by you I mean others in general). Likewise, seeing as all five of the people listed are EST / PST, it leads to problems in the European time zones.

    I love your enthusiasm to help us in leading this project. I'm just not comfortable giving up the reins just yet, especially due to the waning interest even when em or I were hosting.
  17. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

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    That's fine, I completely understand. It wouldn't even have to be anything official, a bunch of us could just get a little room in the IRC channel and we could make a mess of the teambuilder. I'm fine with that and hopefully that's not too much responsibility to be taken in one go. But if this doesn't work at all, I understand.
  18. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    If you'd like to host around with friends, please do so, and even post what you did and why you did it in this thread. "Amateur sessions" are more than welcomed. Also, would the 4 PM - 4 30 PM EDT session Wednesdays be easier for you and others of your time zones? I think that's 10 PM / 10 30 PM for you Europeans.
  19. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

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    4 PM EDT is 8 PM for me (UK) so that should be fine. I guess I'll look for some other people who would be interested, but I suppose it doesn't have to be urgently soon, I'll probably turn up wednesday and get a jist of what I'll most likely need to be doing to get this done.
  20. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
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    Wednesday is very good for me :)
    And I'd be happy to for me and spuds to do some random teambuilding on irc without any pressure, but the whole aim of this is to help people not so confident get better and whilst I am a reasonably competent teambuilder, I don't feel I have the ability to explain things to newer players, especially considering I haven't even been to one of these yet.
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