UU Living Proof (Peaked #1)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Crimson, May 17, 2013.

  1. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Hello everyone. This is my second RMT since returning from a long, long ass hiatus. This team came together after playing a lot of UU since my returning and finding what I liked, didn't liked, and absolutely hated. I've always been someone that enjoys Offensive teams, but I know that going the Bulky Offensive route is what I would enjoy the most. After much trial and error, I made this team below. It's overall solid and only loses to very specific things, hax, a misplay here and there, and my connection when it decides to be a bitch (It's 1-0 against my team...)

    I picked Living Proof as my name because I like Bad Meets Evil (Eminem and Royce Da 5'9). All Pokemon are named after songs or people they rapped with. Dig it.

    Team building process:
    Show Hide


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    I wanted to start with Mienshao because after many games, I saw how great Reckless High Jump Kick was and it was a great cleanup Pokemon. Taking out other Scarfers I see roaming around (Heracross, Darmanitan, Flygon, etc).

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    I learned that Mienshao + Snorlax core is great for offensive teams as Snorlax deals with fragile ghost types that are immune to HJK. I also personally love Snorlax and is usually in all teams I make. I just had to gave it.


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    OTR Cofagrigus became a favorite of mine and compliments my needs very well. Keeps to my Bulky Offensive theme, and wrecks house.

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    I love Roserade. It can do a lot for me. It checks Toxic Spikes and can incapacitate a foe with Sleep Powder. It also checks mostly all Water types that can and will give me trouble.

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    When I first made the team, I wanted something that could set up Rocks for me while dealing out punishment and Nidoqueen was definitely in the forefront of my mind. LO + Sheer Force was too good to pass up. It also gave me another necessary check to the likes of Heracross and Mienshao.

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    In the last spot went Zapdos. I wanted something to check Honchkrow because I felt it would be a serious threat to me. It also didn't give a fuck about Yanmega or Crobat which are two things I've seen enough of to care about. So it went in and then I ran a bunch of games with this crew and was largely successful. I then noticed a big weakness to Weavile that HAD to be addressed and wasn't sure what to add. After some pondering, I added the ultimate Team Player: Swampert. It went over Nidoqueen. I also, on a whim, wanted to try SubCM Raikou over Zapdos. It did everything Zapdos could do, but also gave me a setup Sweeper. After getting used to it, it stuck because it won me a lot of games for the unprepared.

    Lineup:

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    In Depth:

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    "SLAUGHTERHOUSEEEEE!"


    Slaughterhouse (Mienshao) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Reckless
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Aerial Ace

    Motherfucking Slaughterhouse! This monster lives up to his nickname. Absolutely wrecks house once Ghosts and other Fighting resists are out the way. There isn't much I can say that you probably don't already know about Mienshao. I went with Reckless over Regenerator because it nets me crucial KO's (after Rocks) with HJK on some things that it wouldn't otherwise, like Scarf Flygon. Aerial Ace is strictly for Heracross and Virizon and other Mienshao. Relying on HJK to win me games is sometimes a necessary evil. I've won games because it hit 5 times in a row, and I've lost games because it missed at a crucial time. Shit happens...However, to get half of Mienshao HJK spam problems out the weigh, he needs his partner-in-crime...


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    "You don't know just what I've gone through, that's why I would rather show you just how far that I can take it, every rule, I'm breaking it."

    Above the Law (Snorlax) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Thick Fat
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 52 Def / 196 SDef / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Fire Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Earthquake

    I absolutely love Snorlax. It's been on 95% of all UU teams I've made since I've come back. This is the set I decided upon because it traps those fragile Ghosts that Mienshao despises and can deal great damage with CB Returns. I went with Return over Body Slam because of the raw fucking power. My team doesn't necessarily need the Paralysis and Return can OHKO things from full on the switch in that I'm sure Body Slam would miss out on. Crunch and EQ aren't often used, but there when needed. If I see my opponent's team has no Normal resist outside of their Ghost type, I get an evil grin because I know Return will be hitting something hard, especially once backed up with Trick Room from...

    EDIT: Fire Punch has replaced Crunch to aid with the likes of Bronzong who has caused me some trouble.



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    "I give you my all and you still Take From Me."

    Take From Me (Cofagrigus) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Nasty Plot
    - Trick Room

    Take From Me is truly a boss, and suits my needs very well. Tanks hits from Heracross and Mienshao and deal big hits when STAB Shadow Ball. I try to keep him around until I've dealt with my opponent's fighting type then he can setup TR for my (hopefully healthy) Snorlax and die (again...) or setup and Sweep on his own. He one time killed ALL 6 of my opponent's Pokemon after they were weakened, that was the time I knew his place was permanent.

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    "With my arms out wide...I open my eyes...And now all I wanna see...Is a sky full of lighters"

    Lighters (Roserade) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Sleep Powder
    - Giga Drain

    Lighters earned her named because she can light the sky on fire with a barrage of leaves the world's never seen. She is such a powerhouse, being able to take out one Pokemon with Sleep and crush the switch in immediately after with high powered Leaf Storm or safe Sludge Bomb. I used to have Rest over Synthesis, but over time I didn't like having to Rest to regain health. It makes handling Umbreon so much easier. IVs help take less damage from Foul Play. Speaking of Umbreon, Roserade can beat it one on one provided my Sleep Powders can hit. The accuracy is shaky, but having it helps SO DAMN MUCH! Definitely helps when it comes to this guy...

    EDIT: Trying out Giga Drain over Synthesis/Rest for now. It gives me a good move against those Bulky Water types that Roserade loves, while not forcing me to switch out straight away because of Leaf Storm. Must be used with discretion though because sometimes it still is better to nuke with Leaf Storm and getting out.
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    "I'm living life in the Fast Lane, moving at the speed of Life and I can't slow down..."

    Fast Lane (Raikou) @ Leftovers

    Trait: Pressure
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Thunderbolt
    - Substitute
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Calm Mind


    The newest addition to the team and a very welcomed surprise to boot. This guy has net me many wins I probably wouldn't have gotten if it was still Zapdos in his place. The IVs keep HP Ice at 70 while also taking less damage from Foul Play. It isn't hard to get this guy behind a Sub against a Status move or after something uses a move like Leaf Storm to reduce their Special Attack for me. I haven't missed Zapdos all that much since adding Raikou. It still keeps Honchkrow and Yanmega in check just like Zap did, while giving me another win condition.


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    "Through the highs and through the lows...they will follow...the Echo..."

    Echo (Swampert) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Scald
    - Earthquake
    - Roar


    Echo replaced Nidoqueen because Weavile was such a huge threat that it had to be taken care of. If I see Weavile on my opponent's team, I will try my damnedest to keep Swampert healthy until I find out what its set is or just kill it with Swampert. My resident SR'er and phazer so other things can't setup on me. I'm not 100% on the moveset. Scald is great for spreading Status and giving me something to do after Sableye or something burns Echo, but Ice Beam would help deal with things like Flygon and obvious Grass type switch ins.

    Threats/Annoyances:

    Victini: Just the CB and LO varieties. If it is banded and it gets a free switch in, something is gonna get hurt. Once I know my opponent has a Banded Victini, it's important for me to stay ahead in the Pokecount. Only Swampert can take more than 2 and live to tell the tale. LO is handled by a healthy Snorlax, and Mienshao's Stone Edge once weakened. Still an all around pain in the ass.

    Bronzong: More annoyance than threat. I can't hit it for Super Effective now that Zapdos is gone, and I don't want to put HP Fire on Roserade because Sleep Powder is too good. I have ways around it, but it's a big iron wall of shitbricks until it's asleep. Then it gets dealt with later.

    Things with STAB Ground moves: As you may have noticed, all my Pokes are grounded, so I (currently) have no way of avoiding EQ or Earth Power from the likes of Flygon, Krookodile, Nidoking, and Nidoqueen. And they all hurt. This is really the only place I miss Zapdos.

    Sableye/Prankster status: Fuck that shit.

    Sharpedo: Sharpedo is always a threat to offensive oriented teams. Whenever I see Sharpedo, I try to keep Swampert as healthy as possible, or keep Cofagrigus around to force it to Crunch to give it Mummy before it gets too many boosts.

    Specs Kingdra: When it comes in, usually something is dying to Specs Draco Meteor. I need to stay ahead of the Pokecount when I know it is specs, so I can act accordingly.

    Weavile: Still a threat even with Swampert around. It can hit half my team for Super Effective depending on the set. Must be handled with care.

    Outro:

    I'm posting this now because this is my most successful team to date and has been a lot of fun for me to use. I'm completely out of ideas to make it better on my own. I'm also going out of town a bit this weekend and figured this would be a good time to post it up for suggestions and could tweak after I return. Hope you enjoyed my team! Thanks for reading!

    Import:

    Show Hide
    Fast Lane (Raikou) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Thunderbolt
    - Substitute
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Calm Mind

    Slaughterhouse (Mienshao) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Reckless
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Aerial Ace

    Lighters (Roserade) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Sleep Powder
    - Synthesis

    Above the Law (Snorlax) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Thick Fat
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 52 Def / 196 SDef / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Earthquake

    Take From Me (Cofagrigus) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Nasty Plot
    - Trick Room

    Echo (Swampert) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Scald
    - Earthquake
    - Roar



    Rate, Comment, Luvdisc.
  2. GenXXZ

    GenXXZ

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    282
    This team is pretty darn good. I suppose the main counter for it would be Roserade, who ends up resisting a lot of your STABs. You might want to consider a check for her. Zapdos could probably do a very good job taking hits from her but Zapdos lacks a special flying STAB to take full advantage of it's flying type. You could try Choice Scarf Darmanitan in place of Choice Scarf Mienshao. A lot of your Pokemon are very effective at eliminating Darmanitan's counters and the thing hits like a truck so I don't think you'll be missing Reckless HJK all that much. This will also do wonders with patching up your Bronzong problem. I realize it's your starting Pokemon and you might not want to go through with it, but I think it would overall benefit your team. If anything give it a go, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
  3. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    552
    Solid team, good job on getting so high in the ladder, #60 right now just under me! I really don't think you should be making drastic changes while laddering, as it's clearly working for you. Just a few things however I think are worth mentioning:

    The way I see it, Snorlax should run Body Slam over Return. The few things that can take a CB STAB attack from Snorlax will never appreciate the chance of paralysis, considering how damaging it is to anything with speed. In my eyes, the 17 BP difference is less important than a 30% chance to paralyze things.

    I agree with you, Ice Beam on Swampert would help it out a lot. But honestly I can't think of a good argument to replace any of it's current moves. Stealth Rock obviously can't go, Earthquake and Scald are both very imporant STABs, and Roar is extremely beneficial for hazing purposes. I guess Roar would be the best thing to replace, but I dunno honestly.

    Roserade and Shaymin could cause some trouble to this team, and the easiest fix would be to replace Crunch with Fire Punch. Face it, the only Ghost Snorlax is really there for is Chandelure, and 80% of the time you'll be using Pursuit on it. If you for some reason are sure it's not switching then Earthquake would do more than a Crunch anyway. While Crunch would hit more on Cofagrigus, you don't really want to be pitting Snorlax versus Cofagrigus, considering the likely hood of Snorlax getting burned. Replacing Mienshao with Darmanitan would leave the team open to a lot more Scarf threats, particularly the base 100s.

    Once again, you don't want to be messing too bad with a winning formula, be sure that changes will truly be beneficial before putting them in. Good luck in your future battles!
  4. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    @GenXX7

    I actually haven't had much Roserade problems so far. My own Roserade does a good job against it and Raikou can come in after a Leaf Storm and essentially get a free sub. In the right situation that could mean game. As PTJon said, losing Mienshao would expose me to faster Scarfers out there which wouldn't be so good. Thanks for the comment.

    @PTJon

    The only thing I fear from having Body Slam over Return is during the times where I use Cofagrigus to set up TR strictly to die soon thereafter and allow Snorlax to push through with Returns. I fear that I Body Slam something, it lives, gets para'd, then kills me because of it. I know my luck...it's bound to happen haha. But maybe...I've used Body Slam on CB Snorlax before and liked it.

    I do like the suggestion for Fire Punch. If I do switch to Body Slam, it will be my best attack against troublesome Grass types (though Slamming and getting Para WOULD be better...), so it is definitely something to consider. Roserade can handle Cofagrigus well on her own anyways. And Raikou can help. Thanks for the suggestions.
  5. HUARGH

    HUARGH

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    155
    Hello,

    I recognize your nicknames, I actually played you on the ladder (and won iirc - so I have some tips on what you could have done against me specifically and how this may affect other teams that are built like mine), I don't know if you remember but my team consisted of sableye/swampert/snorlax/umbreon/nidoqueen/rotom-h or zapdos, I was playing a full stall team.

    First of all, as you have already said, you rely a lot on Mienshao (and also on Roserade). Myself having both a defensive Nidoqueen and Sableye, I didn't really notice Mienshao being a problem and the only threat I really had to deal with was Roserade. You made a very weird play with Raikou early, letting it die to my Snorlax for free, so I didn't really get to experience him as a threat.

    I don't know how I feel about Cofagrigus, I remember you getting to +4 in our match but I got lucky with sleep. Trick room felt out of place as you want to be using nasty plot on free turns, not trick room, although trick room can technically grant you a free turn in return if you use it against a faster pokemon.

    I know HP fighting is for coverage but there's a reason Co is in UU; even at +4 it did pathetic damage. I would recommend using a more defensive Co, one that utilizes a status move (I'm thinking WoW to hurt pursuit trappers on the switch, but I guess toxic works too) and pain split. Even knock off would be nice as Co tends to lure out specific pokemon.

    I think Roserade is great; personally I would go with rest instead of synthesis, I find it hard to believe that you are firing away sludge bombs (as you won't be staying in after leaf storm) while taking repeated hits from the enemy and thinking 'good thing I have synthesis instead of rest'. Either that or just go all-out and run a third coverage move, such as HP Fire which both hits Bronzong and Heracross who otherwise wall you.

    Problems

    Nothing too new here, so I'll keep it short.
    Sableye: you already noticed this, but you have only Roserade that can take a burn. This polarizes your switching pattern, as when Sableye gets in you pretty much have to switch out to Roserade or get burned, so after you have repeated this pattern for a while the opponent can take advantage of it by immediately switching to his Roserade counter. If that counter is something like a Victini or even Darmanitan, you have a problem.
    Darmanitan/Victini: You already pointed this out, but Victini and Darmanitan can use their fire moves for free. You don't have anything that takes negligible (or no) damage from them. Life Orb Victini with 4 attacks (blue flare/grass knot/focus blast/psychic) has a lot of fun with your team. You could use Arcanine with intimidate or Chandelure instead of Co if you're not making him bulky.
    Sleep talk Heracross: This creates a Victini-esque scenario where you have to stay ahead in poke count, but in addition to this it completely walls Roserade and resists Mienshao's STAB.
    Crobat: can be a nuisance, especially if Raikou isn't full health as Crobat is faster.

    EDIT: I don't like scarf Mienshao, would rather see Life Orb + Regenerator so you can run fake out over AA (and I don't think Heracross is going to be staying in anyway if he scouted choice).
  6. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    I don't remember your team, but thanks for the advice. I'm sure I did make weird plays as I do that sometimes.

    The thing with Cofagrigus is that it also my Normal resist to keep things like Pory-Z and Snorlax from spamming their powerful Normal attacks against me. I would love to have a Fire Type to give me another check to Sableye, but I don't know where it could fit without opening up holes elsewhere. Chandy (I'm thinking Sub + LO if I use it, but I would have to watch out for Shao / Darm + Snorlax) could go over Cofagrigus I guess. Maybe over Raikou (if I don't use SubLO Chandy over Cofagrigus) if anyone as it won't give me any new weaknesses that's not unmanageable. The SR weak isn't that bad since it would be only that one Fire Poke. I would lose my Set Up Sweeper though most likely.

    The best Fire options in place of Raikou would be (for my team:)

    Arcanine (LO with Morning Sun or Bulky), Darmanitan (LO), Victini (Mixed LO or Pure Special LO), Rotom-H (Maybe.) I would just need to put Ice Beam on Swampert most likely in this scenario for Flygon.
  7. HUARGH

    HUARGH

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    155
    Why not use Sableye yourself? You could ditch Co, replace him with Sableye. Although foul play will never OHKO Darmanitan (unless rocks), it can do up to about 97% (courtesy of dmgcalc). It deals similar damage to physical Victini and still does 50%ish against special Victini. Additionally it allows you to scout the enemy Victini switching in, if the damage is 50-60ish (probably lower, don't know if dmg calc takes 0 atk IVs into account) you're dealing with special Victini.

    Sableye doesn't mind taking burns that much due to recover and not using the attack stat. It can also help you defend against threatening pokemon by priority WoW such as Snorlax and Mienshao, the latter cannot hurt a physically defensive bold-natured Sableye anyway.

    Your stealth rocker is Swampert and Sableye has great synergy with him. Due to the threat of WoW they will usually go to a fire type, at which point you can swap in Swampert and get up stealth rock quite quickly. Sableye would also give you a useful psychic immunity.
  8. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    I'm not a big Sableye fan, and it also opens me up to Heracross more as his Megahorn is a clean 2hko, and I will be relying on Wisp to burn it.

    I'm currently testing various Fire types over Raikou (On an Alt of course) to see what sticks.
  9. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    260
    Hey,

    I don't know if this is a good idea, replacing your electric type means the only thing you can hope to do against Togekiss is RK with Mienshao, your team is also pretty weak to Shaymin.

    To help against these problems I suggest you put your Zapdos back on. Zap also gives you a nice ground immuntiy, which is something you listed in the TL.
  10. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Yeah the fire type experiment wasn't too beneficial in the long run because I had to reconfigure the team away from what I was trying to do and it ended up looking like a different team. Once I removed one thing to fix a hole, more were opened.

    Zapdos is very nice on the team indeed, but Raikou has also proven to be useful in it's setup sweeper role. It beats many teams that aren't prepared for it. I do like Raikou's ability to set up on things like Porygon2, but Zapdos helps a lot with my problems from Bronzong and Shaymin (admittedly, I can beat most Shaymin with Roserade if I know what it can do). It boils down if I want to be more defensive (Zapdos) or more offensive (Raikou).
  11. Exbo

    Exbo

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    229
    How about Rotom-Heat? Have you tested it on your alt?
    Electric AND Fire type AND ground immunity
    In theory it works^

    You could use this to be offensive
    Show Hide
    Rotom-Heat @ Choice Specs/Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest/Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Overheat
    - Trick
    - Volt Switch/Dark Pulse

    or this to be defensive
    Show Hide
    Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Discharge
    - Substitute
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
  12. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    I actually considered Rotom-H when I was looking for things because it was the best of both worlds, but I didn't think it was strong enough to keep up with what I was going for, but I figured I would try it over Raikou on an alt and see what happened. I was pleasantly surprised by the results. I went with the Scarf set with Overheat/Volt Switch/HP Grass/Trick.

    In testing I saw it gave me a handy Volt-Turn core with Mienshao which is indeed welcomed. I can also Trick my Scarf over to a Wall or something boosting up and shut it down which helps tremendously. I had to put HP Grass instead of Ice because Swampert and Rhyperior are way too common of switch-ins for me not to use it. I do lose out on HP Ice for things like Flygon, but I should be able to handle Flygon (With just a bit of prior damage/multiple Rocks switch-ins, he is OHKO'd by HJK) with my other members.

    Will need a bit more time before I decide on the permanent switch, but so far so good.
  13. relaunched

    relaunched

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    299
    I don't see any huge problems with this team, but there are some things you could change. I like PTJon's suggestion of Fire Punch over Crunch, as I find Crunch is almost never useful, while Fire Punch can at least do some damage to Bronzong, which annoys your team a bit. You should probably keep Return though, because your team is fairly fast, and paralysis isn't that important to it. Also consider changing Trick Room on Cofagrigus to Rest, giving it a Chesto Berry. Trick Room always seems underwhelming when I use it, as it takes two turns to set up, as opposed to one. Rest is very surprising on the ladder, and lets Cofagrigus check Fighting types for longer and shake off Toxic from the likes of Blastoise and Hitmontop. Also, Raikou, Mienshao and Roserade dislike Trick Room. If you do make this change, you might raise its Speed IV to 30, though a 2 IV does help against other Cofagrigus in Trick Room.

    I don't know why people are complaining so much about Sableye. It's really easy to switch in to and Roserade is one of the best answers to it. Also, I think you should keep Raikou over Rotom-H. Thing is, your team seems rather good at removing the Ground-types it hates, and sets it up pretty well. Of course Trick is always nice to have, so that might be a reason to use Rotom.
  14. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Yeah Fire Punch on Snorlax would help with dealing with Bronzong a bit more easily. Ironically, having Rotom-H would also help with it too, even though it can't switch-in all willy-nilly if TR is up.

    I like Trick Room on Cofagrigus. Yes it has cost me some games, but that was because I judged poorly on activating it. It not only helps Cofagrigus, but aids Snorlax too if my opponent has no more Normal resists (which my team can dispatch pretty handily) remaning. It also helps Cof clean-up after his duty of handling Fighting types is over (or just setup TR for Lax). It also hard counters Speed Boost Sharpedo which can be a problem for offensive teams.

    Rotom-H (when healthy) is a handy check to Weavile as it can take a +2 Night Slash, no crit, and kill with Overheat. If I have Scarf still, I can take Ice Shards for days and still KO. Rotom-H is sounding more and more better. It also handles my problem with Nidoqueen/king, and relieves some of that duty off Snorlax.
  15. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

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    Try putting Thunderbolt > HP Grass on Rotom-H. You lose out on Rhyperior and Swampert but you have a solid counter in Roserade (and Swampy for Rhyp) anyway. Thunderbolt allows you to heavily damage Togekiss, Honkrow, Suicune and the like, which Volt Switch cannot hope to do. IMO they cause more problems for your team than Swampert and Rhyperior and you're gonna have to predict the switch anyway with HP Grass, plus you can Trick them your scarf if Roserade and Swampert are unable to check them for whatever reason. Missing out the KOs on the aforementioned threats really hurt especially since your team can't really deal with things like NP Kiss with only Volt Switch. In my opinion.

    Very nice team!
  16. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    @scrop
    I disagree with this. Without hp grass, those two you mentioned completely shut down rotom and give them a free turn to do whatever they like. Because these 2 both carry stealth rocks, that means that they'll get them up for free and this team has no spinners. I'd say keep the set as is for now or change it to rotom-C if you're feeling adventurous.
  17. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Recently I've gone back to using Raikou over Rotom-H. They both have their positive and negatives, but I largely feel better about Raikou's ability to set-up versus Rotom-H's ability to potentially cripple something. I still reserve the right to switch, but for now, Raikou is still on the team.

    One thing I have been trying out on a whim was Toxic Spikes over Sleep Powder on Roserade. Why? Because one day I felt my team would be able to benefit from it. All I really need is one layer for the extra 12% damage every turn. I also got tired of Sleep Powder missing at critical moments. Why Toxic Spikes and not regular Spikes? Because it allows me to keep Roserade as Offensive with Leaf Storm which is crucial to my team for necessary things.

    So far it has been working nicely, especially since Roserade herself can eliminate most other common grounded Poison types in UU with said Leaf Storm. I just need to make sure I can lay them safely (usually on Water types that are about to switch out). A little bit of holding back on immediate damage for long-term damage over time is a bit against my style, but I think it could be what I'm missing.

    Thoughts on Offensive Toxic Spike Roserade?

    EDIT: I was also thinking of replacing EQ for Sleep Talk on Snorlax. I currently have nothing that can take Sleep from Roserade or the rare Tangrowth outside of my own Roserade. Just a thought for now.
  18. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    614
    I am going to help you with this [very interesting] team. HP Fighting is a good move, but a higher base power move might be a good substitution. I would suggest Psychic because it hits all the Fighting-types in the tier besides Scrafty super-effectively (who is either revenged by Mienshao, worn down by Swampert, or faces undesirable status moves).

    This next part is very unusual for me to suggest, but here it goes.

    Part I: Replace Stealth Rock on Swampert with Stone Edge to handle Weaville. It gives you EdgeQuake, and lets you hit Pokemon such as Yanmega, Zapdos, and Sigilyph very hard.

    No worries, with this two-parter, you still get Stealth Rock. Here is where it gets weird.

    I suggest you replace Roserade with physically defensive Torterra to handle Umbreon better, wearing it down, and when the time is right, switch in Raikou to set up on it. Torterra also brings some much-needed bulk to your team.

    Torterra (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 180 HP/252 Def/76 Spe
    Nature: Impish
    -Stealth Rock
    -Leech Seed
    -Earthquake
    -Substitute

    Torterra comes with its bulk superior to Roserades as a utility Pokemon. Stealth Rock is present here since I suggested taking it off Swampert. The SubSeed combo lets Torterra wear down Umbreon without getting poisoned. Earthquake is Torterra's best STAB move, and hits many Pokemon super-effectively. The EVs are to guarantee outspeeding uninvested Umbreon with a neutral nature, and then maximizing physical bulk.

    Since Swampert has Scald and Torterra takes your physical hits, change Swampert's EVs to 240 HP/16 Def/252 SpD with a Sassy or Relaxed nature so it can take special hits better.

    This may seem really weird but I think it could work. Try it! Good luck!
  19. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    The only thing about that is that losing Roserade would open me up to things that weren't typically a problem, like Will-o-wisp from Sableye and Toxic Spikes. My team doesn't really appreciate either of those things. I do like the suggestion for Psychic on Cof, I'll look into that more.

    Thanks for the suggestion, it's definitely something I can keep in mind as long as I can avoid those problems above.
  20. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Posting to say that I decided to forego Toxic Spikes on Roserade and went with a more readily offensive move option in Giga Drain. Why? Because it lets me deal with the Water Types I commonly switch into without having to use Leaf Storm and subsequently being forced to switch out and potentially giving something the chance to set up. It's been working so far, just have to use discretion when using Giga Drain to pace myself, or just smiting a threat with Leaf Storm.

    Also, to note, I've been able to push my team to #1 on the Ladder since the reboot. If anything, it shows the level of consistency the team has and I'm very proud of that.
  21. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Using my bump here, the changes I did above have been working very effective.

    Anyone know how/willing to make a banner for my team?

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