Locked Up - OM Monthly Ladder Challenge

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
I've found Gliscor to be pretty good. Its Toxic Orb prevents it from being statused by Heatran's Searing Shot or Sabelye's Dark Void. It gets Taunt to screw with defensive teams and Defog.
Gliscor deals with Tyranitar and Heatran, but I haven't really seen Lando-I yet tbh. I guess Aqua Jet / Ice Shard spam deals with that tho.

https://www.replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-171776234 Oml the genericness is real ;-;

Set I've been using:

Cancer (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Taunt

The name was from FairyTail cuz snip snip and its constantly sick from dem Toxics

88 speed is to outspeed Jolly T-tar and prevent it from setting up while speed creeping other Gliscors. The rest is dumped into HP and Def.

Earthquake threatens out Heatran, Toxic is to put stuff on a timer, and Taunt prevents Lando-T from Defogging.
Slash Bonemerang out with Earthquake, and slash Knock Off out with Taunt, and Roost with Toxic. The utility these things provide are quite good.

EDIT: Also Google Chrome gives me an error with replay servers now
 
Slash Bonemerang out with Earthquake, and slash Knock Off out with Taunt, and Roost with Toxic. The utility these things provide are quite good.

EDIT: Also Google Chrome gives me an error with replay servers now
Sounds good, I'll try them out myself later if I can get on.

The replay was a guy running Mega T-tar, Diggers, Espeon, BD Azumarill, Sableye and Heatran. I was surprised that I managed to be him x.x
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
Sounds good, I'll try them out myself later if I can get on.

The replay was a guy running Mega T-tar, Diggers, Espeon, BD Azumarill, Sableye and Heatran. I was surprised that I managed to be him x.x
I beat the same guy maybe!

EDIT: 1262 ELO HYPE
 
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So I'm at 1227 right now, currently on an 8 game win streak, almost solely due to one pokemon:

This is the set I've been using in conjunction with sticky web forretress (I haven't seen this particular set...):

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Substitute
- Crabhammer
- Swords Dance

After a swords dance, Kabutops pretty much ohkos the whole tier, and after 1 defense boost, you can tank almost any priority move, including diggersby's fake out + espeed, Kyurem-B's Ice shard, and Azumarill's water shuriken. Diamond Storm and Crabhammer are so easy to spam, it's almost ridiculous (although their accuracy is shaky)

The great part about this kabutops is that it gets substitute to set up all over stall mons and helps predicts switches. Kabutops is also immune to prankster topsy-turvy, will-o-wisp, and dark void, which is really great.

Sadly, I don't have any replays, but I would like to mention that it singlehandedly swept a double bunny core + sableye + kyube team.
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
So I'm at 1227 right now, currently on an 8 game win streak, almost solely due to one pokemon:

This is the set I've been using in conjunction with sticky web forretress (I haven't seen this particular set...):

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Substitute
- Crabhammer
- Swords Dance

After a swords dance, Kabutops pretty much ohkos the whole tier, and after 1 defense boost, you can tank almost any priority move, including diggersby's fake out + espeed, Kyurem-B's Ice shard, and Azumarill's water shuriken. Diamond Storm and Crabhammer are so easy to spam, it's almost ridiculous (although their accuracy is shaky)

The great part about this kabutops is that it gets substitute to set up all over stall mons and helps predicts switches. Kabutops is also immune to prankster topsy-turvy, will-o-wisp, and dark void, which is really great.

Sadly, I don't have any replays, but I would like to mention that it singlehandedly swept a double bunny core + sableye + kyube team.
Well I now know what I'm replacing Crawdaunt with
 
So I'm at 1227 right now, currently on an 8 game win streak, almost solely due to one pokemon:

This is the set I've been using in conjunction with sticky web forretress (I haven't seen this particular set...):

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Substitute
- Crabhammer
- Swords Dance

After a swords dance, Kabutops pretty much ohkos the whole tier, and after 1 defense boost, you can tank almost any priority move, including diggersby's fake out + espeed, Kyurem-B's Ice shard, and Azumarill's water shuriken. Diamond Storm and Crabhammer are so easy to spam, it's almost ridiculous (although their accuracy is shaky)

The great part about this kabutops is that it gets substitute to set up all over stall mons and helps predicts switches. Kabutops is also immune to prankster topsy-turvy, will-o-wisp, and dark void, which is really great.

Sadly, I don't have any replays, but I would like to mention that it singlehandedly swept a double bunny core + sableye + kyube team.
There went Crawdaunt haha
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
ugh stall is impossible I'm gonna resort to HO ;-;

It's funny because I can't really play anything other than full stall and hyper offense. Stuck to two extremes I guess :P
 

EV

Banned deucer.
ugh stall is impossible I'm gonna resort to HO ;-;

It's funny because I can't really play anything other than full stall and hyper offense. Stuck to two extremes I guess :P
Tell us why. There aren't enough stall options in the 54? They can't compete with regular stall options?
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Tell us why. There aren't enough stall options in the 54? They can't compete with regular stall options?
Stall is hard enough in STABmons as it is, with such a limited pool of subpar pokemon it's extremely difficult to get a functioning team. There are two main problems here. There is no real way to deal with setup sweepers besides revenge killing, and it's impossible to cover all the threats (even all the viable threats, ignoring some of the more niche / gimmicky ones)

I don't really have an example at hand, but I've tried teambuilding full stall in STABmons several times (w0rd can vouch for me), and I haven't come up with a teamcomp that can fully handle the entire metagame. This is not to say stall is completely nonviable, just that full stall is not possible. You have to run some sort of offensive threat to keep pressure on the opponent and to revenge kill. Now, with restrictions on the pokemon you can use, it's naturally even harder to make a viable team.

The first point of focus for a stall team would be Diggersby, as it's one of the most common pokemon in the meta and is extremely powerful. Normally, Bronzong would be a pretty decent counter to Diggersby, but Bronzong doesn't have recovery moves, and thus requires wish support to keep its health up. The only wish passers legal right now are Slurpuff and Wigglytuff. Slurpuff is completely out of the question because of its terrible stats and movepool. Wigglytuff seems like a nice passer because of its large hp stat, but it is complete dead weight in this meta. 4 out of 5 of the S ranked mons can easily plow through it. In fact, despite having a large hp stat, it's other defensive stats are terrible, so it really can't even wall neutral hits. This basically means anything that requires wish support is not ideal, as diggers can just switch out of it, and it will slowly get worn down and KO'd.

Considering this, defensive Gliscor is your best bet for a Diggersby counter. Gourgeist walls Diggersby pretty nicely, but is complete dead weight against the rest of the meta.

I would write more but I just realized that Diggersby + Landorus-I can completely dismantle every single pokemon legal for this challenge ;-;

TL;DR Don't run full stall in STABmons ;-;


 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
Tangrowth is also a good way to deal with Diggersby. Why on earth does everyone assume Gourgeist is the only option n_n
 
In terms of checking the big threats, Diggersby might actually be one of the easier ones to deal with here.

Diggersby checks
Shedinja - can switch in on any attack barring Thief/SmackDown. Requires a lot of support though and has to watch out for Sand Stream
Zygarde - max defense Zygarde is 4HKOed by Earthquake/ExtremeSpeed and can Coil up against it. Let down by its lack of recovery outside of Rest though.
Rotom - ghost Rotom walls Diggersby. Can Will-o-Wisp it to cripple it but can't touch it with its STABs.
Gliscor - physically defensive Gliscor is a nice check which has a lot of additional utility for your team. Belly Drum sets can be a problem though.
Drifblim - walls Diggersby lacking Wild Charge, but otherwise not great. Can provide Defog support I guess
Gengar - can come in on most Diggersby sets and either Sub-Disable or Will-o-Wisp it. has to watch out for Wild Charge though.
Gourgeist - probably the best available "counter". Diggersby can't really touch it besides Thief, while Gourgeist can Will-o-Wisp, Leech Seed, Horn Leech, etc. Eviolite Pumpkaboo could also work here, but is less useful outside of handling Diggersby.
Banette - gets destroyed by Earthquake, but can deter the use of Extremespeed. Can hit Diggersby with a priority Curse/Will-o-Wisp/Destiny Bond if you're really desperate.
Trevenant - see Gourgeist
Tangrowth - one of the best available checks. Only 4HKOed by Silk Scarf ExtremeSpeed. Regenerator and Synthesis keep it from getting worn down, Giga Drain/Horn Leech heal back any damage.
Avalugg - only 5HKOed by Earthquake and ExtremeSpeed and has access to Recover. Avalanche OHKOs Diggersby.
Bronzong - walls Diggersby well, but is easily worn down and can't do a great deal back. Toxic and King's Shield stalling is an option I guess.
Cresselia - physically defensive Cresselia is a decent check. Immune to Earthquake and Extremespeed is a 4HKO. Can 3HKO back with Ice Beam or Psystrike or could even start setting up Cosmic Powers.
Cobalion - can come in on anything except Earthquake, and threaten to OHKO with Close Combat. Provides a useful Normal resist

I think having at least one normal resist/immunity and one ground resist is a safe bet so that Diggersby can't freely spam its STABs

Heatran checks
Hydreigon - can switch on any attack and Earth Power or Dark Pulse in return.
Zygarde - can take any attack and OHKO with Earthquake. Does not appreciate getting burned though.
Rotom-Heat - probably the best available counter. Resists both STABs, immune to Earth Power, and can't be burned. Has to watch out for toxic though.
Rotom-Wash - Also resists both STABs and immune to Earth Power. Has to watch out for burns, but can threaten Heatran back with Scald/Hydro Pump.
Houdoom - can switch in on Lava Plumes thanks to Flash Fire and resists steel, but has to watch out for Earth Power or physical sets with Earthquake. Can put Heatran to sleep with Dark Void, but needs a Nasty Plot or two to do any significant damage.
Arcanine - Flash Fire sets can switch into Heatran. Can threaten it with Close Combat, but has to play around King's Shield
Gliscor - if its Toxic Orb has already been activated, Gliscor can switch in without fearing a burn. Can OHKO Heatran with Earthquake.
Dugtrio - requires Volt Switch/U-turn/Parting Shot support but can easily eliminate Heatran by trapping and KOing it. Cannot switch in at all though due to its frailty.
Cresselia - can take any attack, but can't do a whole lot back.
Jellicent - resists both STABs and can hit back with a super effective STAB Scald. Can Recover to easily beat any Heatrans lacking Taunt.
Gastrodon - resists both of Heatran's STABs and can hit it hard with Scald or Earthquake.

Bulky waters generally deal with Heatran pretty well - burns are annoying though. Watch out for the rare Power Herb + Solar Beam lol.

Landorus-I checks
Rotom-Heat - specially defensive Rotom-H does alright against Landorus-I since it is immune to Earth Power and resists Oblivion Wing/Hurricane. Needs to watch out for Focus Blast (high chance to 2HKO) ,Gravity, and physical sets with Stone Edge though.
Rotom-Wash - see Rotom-Heat
Gliscor - specially defensive Gliscor is only 3HKOed by Oblivion Wing so can potentially play round that with Roost or Protect. It is fighting a losing battle against sets with Hurricane or Calm Mind though.
Regigigas - Hurricane is 3HKO. Regi can Glare it then Recover spam to fish for paralysis I guess. Kind of screwed vs sets with Superpower or Focus Blast though.
Bronzong - immune to Earth Power and resists its Flying STAB. Max SpDef Bronzong is still 3HKOed by Focus Blast though and is quite easily worn down.
Cresselia - specially defensive Cresselia is probably the closest thing we have to a Lando-I counter. Oblivion Wing is only a 5HKO and Hurricane is only a 3HKO. Cresselia can 2HKO with Ice Beam even without any investment.
Jellicent - specially defensive Jellicent is only 3HKOed by Earth Power. Needs to watch out for Knock Off or Hurricane though.

Probably one of the hardest pokemon for OML teams to deal with. Can be revenge killed or handled by priority users, but if it gets in for free it is almost guaranteed a KO

Sableye checks
Liepard - outspeeds and can Prankster Taunt it, stopping it from doing much besides a resisted Knock Off/Foul Play.
Murkrow - also outspeeds and can Prankster Taunt/Dark Void it.
Luxray - Guts sets with their status orb already activated don't really have anything to fear from Sableye
Wigglytuff - threatens Sableye with a STAB Moonblast. Can exploit Parting Shot to get a free special attack boost thanks to Competitive
Scrafty - a Shed Skin set doesn't care about Sableye's status moves. Scrafty x4 resists Sableye's most common attacking moves (Foul Play and Knock Off)
Gliscor - if its Toxic Orb has already activated, it can come in on Sableye for free.
Trevenant - Natural Cure or Harvest + Lum Berry sets don't care about status. Needs to watch out for Knock Off though
Zangoose - if its Toxic Orb has already activated, it can come in on Sableye for free.
Bisharp - can take advantage of Parting Shot to get free Defiant boosts. Needs to watch out for Dark Void or Will-o-Wisp though unless it's carrying a Lum Berry

Just having something with Sleep Talk on your team makes Sableye less of an issue in general. Or even if it does put something to Sleep or Burn it, it can't really do a great deal else besides discouraging setting up

Tyranitar-Mega checks
Forretress - Tyranitar can't 2HKO it without Fire Blast/Fire Punch/Head Smash so Heal Order + Toxic can wear it down. Sturdy + Metal Burst is also an option.
Zygarde - Avoids a 2HKO from non Ice Punch/Ice Beam sets and can 2HKO back with Earthquake
Rotom-Wash - can outspeed and Will-o-Wisp/Scald, but is 2HKOed by Diamond Storm.
Scrafty - resists both of Tyranitar's STABs and only really has to fear Superpower. Can easily recover any damage taken with a x4 effective STAB Drain Punch
Toxicroak - resists both STABs (but still 2HKOed by Diamond Storm due to its poor defenses). Easily outspeeds and OHKOs TTar though. Just needs to watch out for Earthquake.
Gliscor - physically defensive Gliscor is a solid check to MegaTTars lacking Ice Punch/Ice Beam
Krookodile - resists both STABs and can switch into any hit (including Superpower thanks to Intimidate). 2HKOs with Earthquake.
Bisharp - resists both STABS but dies to Earthquake or Superpower.
Klefki - resists both STABs. Can set up screens or a Geomancy vs Tyranitar quite easily. Just watch out for Fire Blast or Earthquake.
Cobalion - resists both STABs and can OHKO with Close Combat. Can get a Justified boost if it switches in on Knock Off.
Gastrodon - checks all non Dragon Dance sets. Knock Off once its item has been removed does 35% max. Can Recover vs non Taunt Ttar and Scalds burn chance helps a lot here.

Tyranitar can be hard to play around, but its 4MSS is often its downfall. Not being able to carry Earthquake/Superpower/Fire Blast/Ice Punch on every set makes it easier to deal with.

Thundurus checks
I'm struggling to find any. Anything that can handle a special set dies to the physical sets or sets with Taunt. Weirdly, Luxray is the closest I can think of

This is without even considering things like Kyurem-Black, Mega-Scizor, Azumarill and Togekiss too.
 
Seems like it would work against most sets. Physical Thundurus is still a problem though. Knock Off followed by Superpower would hurt a lot (especially if Stealth Rock is up)

252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 87-103 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 108-127 (35.5 - 41.7%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And that's assuming max defense Rotom-H which probably isn't the best set
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Thundurus checks
I'm struggling to find any. Anything that can handle a special set dies to the physical sets or sets with Taunt. Weirdly, Luxray is the closest I can think of
Just make sure it's not Intimidate Luxray!
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Any ideas for Scizor checks?
Intimidate Arcanine fears little from Scizor. Rotom-Heat works too. Cobalion could work in a pinch, but Superpower will put in a nice dent and Cobalion won't be doing much back, especially against a set with Roost.
 
Just started laddering! One Pokemon I've been using and enjoying quite a bit is Regigigas. Slow Start is so sad; however, it does have a saving grace in its newfound access to both Shell Smash and Belly Drum. This mitigates the cut Attack and allows it to be quite a threat after properly setup. Its nice bulk enables the boosting as well and it's a neat Pokemon!
 
I've been finding Regigigas much more useful in a support role, wish passing, spreading/healing status and clearing hazards. It's almost reminiscent of Chansey.

For an offensive Normal type, I much prefer Zangoose. The residual damage is tough, but it is able to abuse a ridiculously strong facade. It also outspeeds Diggersby, so can beat its Espeed. Still gets nailed by fake out though. Sableye can't touch it if it hasn't set up, and it even has knock off to deal with the ghost switchins.
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
I've been finding Regigigas much more useful in a support role, wish passing, spreading/healing status and clearing hazards. It's almost reminiscent of Chansey.

For an offensive Normal type, I much prefer Zangoose. The residual damage is tough, but it is able to abuse a ridiculously strong facade. It also outspeeds Diggersby, so can beat its Espeed. Still gets nailed by fake out though. Sableye can't touch it if it hasn't set up, and it even has knock off to deal with the ghost switchins.
Personally, I use it more like Diggersby with just Fake Out + ESpeed. The one slot I keep switching out is CC/Milk Drink. While you may mock me for this, if you can force something out and use Milk Drink, you can significantly lengthen your timer, so you can keep using it. Then again, wish support makes this unnecessary, but I don't have any on my team so
 

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