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Logic [Hovering around high 1300's]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Tangelo, May 9, 2012.

  1. Tangelo

    Tangelo

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Logic

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Hey all, I'm Tangy/Tangelo/Tangyz and I'm here to post a team. I'm pretty much a nobody on Smogon, so I suppose this is an introduction.

    The team really isn't about any one pokemon, and their is no team building process as it came me to me all at once. The first thing I thought when making the team was that SubPunch Abomasnow beats/sets up on a lot of stuff at the top of the usage stats (see below). As you can see, it beats a lot of the tier.

    Show Hide
    Code:
     + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- + 
     | Rank | Pokemon         | Usage  | Percent | RealUse| RealPct | 
     + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- + 
     | 1    | [B]Tyranitar  [/B]     | 19462  | 17.423% | 17430  | 19.275% | 
     | 2    | Chandelure      | 16215  | 14.516% | 13548  | 14.982% | 
     | 3    | [B]Genesect* [/B]    | 15917  | 14.249% | 13840  | 15.305% | 
     | 4    | [B]Breloom   [/B]      | 15391  | 13.779% | 11799  | 13.048% | 
     | 5    |[B] Dragonite[/B]       | 14701  | 13.161% | 11734  | 12.976% | 
     | 6    | [B]Garchomp[/B]        | 13840  | 12.390% | 10055  | 11.120% | 
     | 7    | [B]Politoed[/B]        | 13495  | 12.081% | 12511  | 13.836% | 
     | 8    |[B] Ferrothorn*[/B]    | 12885  | 11.535% | 10710  | 11.844% | 
     | 9    | [B]Ninetales*[/B]       | 12522  | 11.210% | 11534  | 12.755% | 
     | 10   | [B]Infernape*[/B]      | 12112  | 10.843% | 10008  | 11.068% | 
     | 11   |[B] Excadrill  [/B]     | 11420  | 10.224% | 8105   |  8.963% | 
     | 12   |[B] Gliscor  [/B]       | 10969  |  9.820% | 8810   |  9.743% | 
     | 13   |[B] Venusaur [/B]       | 10636  |  9.522% | 8391   |  9.279% | 
     | 14   |[B] Scizor*  [/B]        | 10050  |  8.997% | 7937   |  8.777% | 
     | 15   | [B]Heatran*[/B]         | 10024  |  8.974% | 8187   |  9.054% | 
     | 16   | Gengar          | 8708   |  7.796% | 6797   |  7.517% | 
     | 17   | [B]Keldeo [/B]         | 8170   |  7.314% | 6429   |  7.110% | 
     | 18   | [B]Salamence [/B]      | 8121   |  7.270% | 6319   |  6.988% | 
     | 19   |[B] Skarmory[/B]        | 8100   |  7.251% | 7066   |  7.814% | 
     | 20   | Blaziken        | 7997   |  7.159% | 6230   |  6.890% | 
     | 21   | [B]Serperior [/B]      | 7164   |  6.413% | 5590   |  6.182% | 
     | 22   | Volcarona       | 7056   |  6.317% | 5376   |  5.945% | 
     | 23   | [B]Espeon[/B]          | 7045   |  6.307% | 5480   |  6.060% | 
     | 24   | Forretress      | 6884   |  6.163% | 6130   |  6.779% | 
     | 25   |[B] Latios [/B]         | 6815   |  6.101% | 5434   |  6.009% | 
    * = 2HKO'd by Focus Punch so it can only switch in once when I have a Sub.


    I'm usually hovering around the high-1300's or the low 1400's, thought now I'm at like 1350 or something (which is why I'm here to post it). I'm a OK player at best, but this team really just plays itself.
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    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 60 HP / 220 Atk / 120 SAtk / 108 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Blizzard
    - Wood Hammer

    This is the King. Nobody sees this set coming, and even if they do, I set up on a variety of things from Bulky Waters to choiced attackers. I can't tell you how many times I've set up a sub on Tyranitar using SR or Terrakion boosting and let loose a Focus Punch or Wood Hammer. It does something like 46% to Genesect and around that for Scizor so it's a 2HKO after Hail damage; this thing is the real deal. Another factor that makes Abomasnow important is Hail. It sucks, but I lack SR. Hail is what sort-of makes up for that by dealing around 6% each turn.

    Abomasnow is my only check to CM Raikou as well. If that thing sets up it's a PAIN to get rid of. Non-Focus Blast Thundurus also loses to this. It also stops HaxChomp (and I hate haxchomp) and it neutralizes Excadrill. If only Aboma had 1 more moveslot; Ice Shard would be so helpful.

    The EV's look kind of complicated but they're pretty simple. 60 HP is a Lefties number. 108 Spd hits 183 speed, which is enough to outspeed most Skarmory and Tyranitar and below. 220 Atk gives it enough power to get the necessary KO's and gets even with her SpA, while 120 SpA gets 1 extra point. Mild is used over Rash because it lets me switch in more often to Surf or TBolt.
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    [​IMG]
    Serperior @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Giga Drain
    - Glare

    A lot of people complained about this set on the ladder. +6 SpA +1 Spe Leaf Storm's are pretty scary, and once this thing starts, it's really hard to stop. Catching Genesect on the switch and hitting it for a ton is fun, but I'm honestly considering HP Rock to hit Volcarona since Glare already stops Genesect from its usually shenanigans. On Glare, it helps Abomasnow set up, Gliscor set up, etc. It's also a nice clutch move against things that are getting out of hand. I used to run Modest, but Timid outspeeds +1 Garchomp (ihy Salac) and Genesect so I switched. The EV's are pretty standard for a sweeper.

    Serperior does a good job at stopping weakened +1 or 2 Keldeo and Manaphy. Otherwise I'm swept. Really any Water-type loses. Ferro was also a problem before I added Chandelure so it helps there too. It's also my main way to get rid of Terrakion with RP. If I were to drop a move on this set for something more worthwhile I'd drop Giga Drain. It really isn't that helpful, and Glare has been used more than Giga Drain.
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    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 188 HP / 68 SpA / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin

    Rapid Spin, Keldeo and the rest of the musketeers hate, and a way to kill Tentacruel all led me to this guy. If you know how to play this guy, it just doesn't die. When the opp has a TTar, you don't keep this guy in more that a turn, js. You go to Weavile or Aboma etc. and beat it. Hydro Pump is used over something like Scald or Surf because I still like the power it brings and it OHKO's Terrakion after Hail damage soo... Abomasnow, Chandy, and Weavile don't mind some RS support, and Recover lets it keep coming in to do that. The EV's do just enough to OHKO Terrakion after Hail damage.

    As said, Keldeo got nothing on this guy. IMO the best counter for it on an offense-ish team. Psyshock beats SpD heavy Blissey too, though I usually will go ahead and set up Gliscor. I also hate Amoonguss, and Psyshock does a number.

    If I were to make a change it'd be this guy. I still want something that spins that beats Keldeo, though, so their aren't many options. I might go Grass Knot / HP Fire / HP Fighting and see how it does
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    [​IMG]
    Gliscor @ Flight Gem
    Trait: Hyper Cutter
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Acrobatics

    I remember running this back when people were using things like AcroFling, but I couldn't find a team it would work on. Well, I found one. After reading some RMT that had this in it, I figured that it would work in the current meta, and what do you know! Thanks to ShakeItUp, my team can OHKO Amoonguss! I might try a Taunt SD set later, or maybe SR > RP just because I really want it here, but this set is the best thing since sliced bread. Hyper Cutter is bad, blah blah blah, suck it. I've had a few Gyarados with Intimidate deciding to switch in on my as I SD, and I'm sure you know what happens then.

    It's a back-up Exca check in case everything goes wrong, and it is my main switch-in to Scizor. Volt Turn in general doesn't like this thing, though I haven't seen too many VoltTurn teams. Heatran and friends also lose to this. Revenges Lucario, Toxicroak, and if it's at good health I can beat non-Air Balloon Terrakion with it.

    Been trying Rock Gem Double Dance Terrakion in this slot to help with Volc, and it's been pretty helpful.
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    [​IMG]
    Chandelure @ Colbur Berry
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - SolarBeam

    SunnyBeamer Chandy! This is such a cool set. It deals 60~% to TTar and it lives the Pursuit with Colbur. Most people don't Crunch since Pursuit KO's regardless. Fire Blast also becomes immensly powerful with Sun up and demolishes anything that switches in. Solarbeam not only beats Tyranitar, but also stops Terrakion from setting up and beats Politoed (which I can Sunny Day on). Colbur Berry is actually something I've just recently started testing, so I might switch back to EBelt if I feel it's worse. EV's are pretty standard.

    This thing beats so many common switch ins it's not even funny. Gastrodon, Tenta, Tyranitar, etc. all lose to this guy. I mainly have this guy to beat steels as the rest of the team can't deal with them. It's also a nice Fighting immunity so that's nice. This thing is usually my last line of defense against greedy Keldeo too.
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    [​IMG]
    Weavile @ Choice Band
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Pursuit
    - Punishment
    - Brick Break

    Dragon Slayer Weavile at your service. Mamoswine can't Pursuit fleeing Chandelure or Punishment +6 Jirachi or Reuniclus. Heck, CM Cune, CM Lati@s, NP/SD Mew, really most boosting sweepers that aren't Dark resists or DDers lose to this. Most DDers lose to Ice Shard anyways. This is the thing that keeps DNite, Garchomp, Salamence, and Lati@s from sweeping me hard. Without this I'd be weak to so many things it wouldn't even be funny. Brick Break is pretty cool for TTar and Heatran. Max Speed just because opposing LO Weavile flat out sweep me unless Serp is at max health. Standard EV's for a sweeper. This switches in after Gliscor when I play against Thundurus, or after something dies. Their really isn't too much to write about Weavile that isn't blatantly obvious, so I guess that's it.
    --------
    Thanks for reading my RMT, etc. Their is a bunch of stuff I might change that I have ideas for, but I want to see what others have to say about it. LO Weavile and Mamoswine are the most annoying threats, with Volcarona coming after that. I usually have to depend on Glare for all of them. Mamoswine is easier since Aboma does decently.
  2. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    630
    This team is very cool as well as original. First off I see a glaring weakness to Terrakion especially CB Terrak because it OHKOs 5 members of your team after SR. Gliscor can't take two Stone Edges Either due to it being offensive. I think your team would benefit from a standard defensive Gliscor as you already have 4 hard hitters. Oh, and Jolly > Adamant on Weavile because then it can outspeed Base 110s
  3. Tangelo

    Tangelo

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    I haven't actually found a CBRakion on the ladder, but it does seem like a problem. I think I can deal with it with Serp and Starmie. I can also bait out CC for Chandy to come in. Not to mention it has trouble switching in on anything. I'll try defensive Scor but I think it'll be outclassed by something like Skarmory, who can bait out the CC better and set up hazards.

    @Weavile

    Do I still OHKO Garchomp and DNite? If so I'll switch for sure. On my itouch so I can't open up my damage calc.
  4. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    630
    Since your still running CB you will still OHKO them
  5. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,021
    this team makes no sense but it's still gorgeous! ily tangy :) and your teams
  6. Tangelo

    Tangelo

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Long time no see bro :] Ily too<3 Ty

    Considering Terrakion > Gliscor for Volc mainly. Also noticed Starmie isn't pulling enough weight. I'll be looking for a replacement or a change in the set later.
  7. Tangelo

    Tangelo

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
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  8. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    496
    Hi Tangelo!

    This is a very interesting unconventional team, I really like the use of SubPunching Abomasnow and how it deals with so many common threats. One thing I have noticed is the weakness to Genesect, and its powerful U-Turns. It can consistently come in on any of your Pokemon and U-Turn out hitting 4/6 of your team members for Super Effective damage. If its U-Turn does not kill a member of your team, your opponent can simply switch out to Chandelure who is commonly run with Genesect and get rid of the two left standing - Chandelure and Gliscor. Since your own Chandelure is not Scarfed it cannot outspeed and will get OHKO'd by Shadow Ball. To patch up all of the aforementioned weaknesses, I recommend a Specially Defensive Heatran.

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    [​IMG]

    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 100 SDef / 160 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Roar / Stealth Rock


    Heatran patches up a lot of weaknesses for your team. Not only does it give you a much easier time against Genesect / Chandelure, it helps with your Volcarona problem you mentioned earlier. It also provides more of a defensive backbone to your team considering you are running a much more offensive variant of Gliscor and Abomasnow. Roar helps you remove boosting Volcarona while Stealth Rock turns some of Abomasnows 2HKOs into OHKOs.

    Heatran of course is all down to personal preference, Chandelure can still deal with your problems. Your Chandelure current set is interesting but very situational. I do agree that Sand is the biggest threat to Sun, but I do think you could get a whole lot more out of Chandelure while still beating Tyranitar in the form of Weavile and Gliscor. I would recommend changing your current Chandelure set to a Choice Scarf variant.

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    Chandelure (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Energy Ball


    This is the best Chandelure set in the current Metagame. It allows you to quickly trap and remove the defensive threats that your team may have trouble with. The Choice Scarf allows you to outspeed a lot of big threats to your team. Under Sun, Excadrill, Landorus, Gliscor, Terrakion, Serperior, Keldeo and Gengar are all outsped thanks to the Choice Scarf. It also alleviates a lot of pressure for Serperior to be your revenge killer. With such a high base speed, it doesn't need a Choice Scarf to outspeed a whole lot, while still having the ability to switch up moves to hit Dragons / Steels hard that aren't hit hard by Leaf Storm. I mentioned Hidden Power [Fighting] here because you made it clear you wanted Chandelure to beat Tyranitar, and with some basic prediction you can maul Tyranitar on the switch.

    I recommend changing your current Serperior set to a Sub Glare set.

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    Serperior @ Leftovers
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Substitute
    - Glare


    This set is a lot of fun to use, having tried it myself I had a lot of success with it. Set up a sub on something that doesn't want to take a Leaf Storm. Then as they switch into something to take said Leaf Storm, Leaf Storm again, then Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice] depending on what you need to hit. Obviously there is limited coverage depending on the Hidden Power you use, which is where the ability to switch up moves and use Glare is very effective. Slowing a Pokemon such as Genesect down for something else to come in on it (Chandelure!) gives your team an easier time against offense teams. It seems like you have to rely on Starmie a lot to deal with offensive teams, when even with the HP investment cannot reliably deal with it due to subpar defensive stats.

    tl;dr
    Specially Defensive Heatran > Chandelure
    • If you are still deciding to use Chandelure over Heatran, then Scarf Chandelure > Colbur Berry
    SubGlare Serperior > Choice Scarf Serperior

    Good luck with the team, hope I helped!
  9. Tangelo

    Tangelo

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
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    Thanks for the rate Jimbon!

    I switched Gliscor to Terrakion to see if it would help out with most of my weaknesses, and it worked pretty well. That helps with Genesect and Volc. I'll try out the other switches though, as the SubGlare set really seems interesting.

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