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Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by GCSChris, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    But you also have to remember that the biggest advantage it has over standard SD Lucario is its overall better coverage. Although BP is a bit weaker then E-Speed, LO SD Lucario has terrible 4th moveslot syndrome where it's walled by a few specific Pokemon depending on what moves it runs. If it runs BP, then it's walled by Landorus-T, Gliscor, Dragonite, Jellicent, and Celebi. If it runs Crunch, Kyurem-B, landorus-T, Gliscor, and Dragonite can wall it/kill it. If running Ice Punch, then Jellicent hardwalls Lucario and both Terrakion and Gengar can no longer be killed off. Mega Lucario however, is either only walled by the Gliscor and Landorus-T if using Crunch, and Jellicent if using Ice Punch. Mega Lucario has less counters and only a few more checks then LO SD Lucario, which gives it a solid niche over its regular counterpart. It wouldn't be completely obsolete to its counterpart, because what it lacks in E-Speed power it excels in beating out almost everything that would normally give LO SD Lucario problems. And it's not like Bullet Punch is going to be weak. Unlike E-Speed, it can beat Terrakion, Gengar, and even Kyurem-B, something that can check the LO SD set. They would both have their niche on certain teams, LO SD Lucario being more reliable mid-late game sweeper while Mega Lucario could potentially pull off early game sweeps more often.

    So no, I'm definitely not disagreeing with your argument, because missing that extra power that E-Speed brings can be crucial, but I just don't agree that Mega Lucario would be COMPLETELY obsolete to its regular counterpart. Now Mega Blaziken...that's a different story. I don't know if there would be any reason to use that thing, unless its Attack stat is off the charts. This is why I wish GF didn't give good Pokemon Mega Evo's, because ironically most of them are outclassed by their counterparts lol. Something like Mawile, Khangaskhan, Absol, and Ampharos makes sense, but unless Blaziken or Lucario are extremely powerful or a bit faster, it just makes no sense that GF would technically speaking, make a shittier evolution.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
  2. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    It depends whether you want higher powerful for all moves (life orb) or even higher power for STABs. I think you can't really have this debate until we see MegaLucario's stats. alexwolf, you make an excellent point, and I understand your point. Gary, your point makes sense too. However, GF could go a bit overboard. I think what alexwolf said is the safe assumption (being MegaLucario won't have 157 Atk), but i also think we need to get more information before talking about MegaLucario's viability in depth. Even if MegaLucario's Atk stat was lower than 157, it could have a niche over regular Lucario as Gary stated. Both sides make a ton of sense, and i feel that they both fill a different niche and have different benefits over the other, but this discussion greatly depends on MegaLucario's attack stat.

    Lucario's coverage moves could be more powerful than MegaLucario's due to LO boost, but MegaLucario's STABS could be more powerful than Lucario's.
  3. Ulevo

    Ulevo

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    As super excited as I am to see Mawile becoming potentially viable, I hope this isn't yet another stab at GameFreak being creative and new that winds up becoming power creep problem.
  4. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

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    I do not believe that we know enough about Mega Evolution at the moment to be absolutely sure.

    With that being said, here's what I think based only on what we've already been given:

    Each individual MegaPokemon (I am looking only at the OU tier):

    MegaMewtwo: Definite Uber, so has no relevance to OU.

    MegaBlaziken: If Speed Boost Blaziken remains broken in X/Y, then MegaBlaziken goes to Ubers with it. However, it looks as if MegaBlaziken will be able to use egg moves (the most relevant one being Baton Pass) while it seems Speed Boost Blaziken will remain unable to use egg moves (unless the Speed Boost Torchic from the event can be female but I doubt that'll happen,) so that's one advantage.

    MegaLucario: Well 80 BP Bullet Punch seems nice, which could mean MegaLucario could forgo ExtremeSpeed and instead run a set like SD/CC/BP/Crunch, but that would hurt against Bullet Punch resists like Infernape, Thundurus-T, etc. (but if the rest of your team can cover these then I don't see the problem) That's not a very large niche, but it very well could be a niche nonetheless. Like, if you had a team that wanted Lucario to have Bullet Punch but also didn't want Lucario to sacrifice too much coverage then MegaLucario could be worthwhile.

    MegaMawile: Huge Power? Increased defensive stats? Kick-ass! Could be good, especially with the whole "Steel/Fairy, fuck Dragons!!1" thing.

    MegaAbsol: Magic Bounce sounds awesome; I mean blocking Will-O-Wisp is a pretty big deal, especially on a Physically-based sweeper like Absol. Would it be good enough to warrant using in OU? I don't know. We don't have enough information to really decide, but the whole "Physical sweeper unaffected by Will-O-Wisp" thing sounds like it could be a pretty big deal.

    MegaAmpharos: Mold Breaker is a good ability, but.... It's Ampharos. I can't see this becoming OU viable unless they double its Speed or something (and I find that quite unlikely)

    MegaKangaskhan: Okay... Attacking TWICE?!?! That does not sound very fair. Still, though, Normal typing leaves much to be desired. Could be good (I mean attacking twice? What the fuck,) but at the same time I don't think we have enough information to really decide (like, what stats does it get boosted, and by how much? For example, MegaKangaskhan would be much better if it got a decent boost to Speed; 90 base Speed is not very good)
  5. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    So it seems I was right to go with the manual Mega Evolution concept, but the fact that you can attack the same turn you Mega Evolve has thrown me for a loop.

    This makes something like Mega Mawile even more scary. Normal Intimidate Mawile can switch in then Mega Evolve and Sub at the same time on the next turn while the opponent switches to something to deal with Mawile, while basically guaranteeing Mawile the Swords Dance on top of Huge Power. That is crazy good. Huge Power Mawile's Sucker Punch has almost (it's exactly a 1 attack point difference in power) as much power as an STAB Adamant Absol Sucker Punch. I really have to wonder if Mawile's Speed will limit its ability to sweep. I mean, Landorus-T still doesn't give a damn but I feel like the primary way of taking Mawile down is going to be Intimidate, bulky Ground-types, PHazers, and of course Heatran. I mean, Mega Mawile's downfall is likely going to be its lack of recovery and use of Sub. I'd hate to wish ill of a Pokemon I love but I also love having a somewhat balanced metagame, so I gotta hope that Mawile either doesn't get Draining Kiss or it has the Base Power of Mega Drain or something. Mega Mawile is just too damn scary to have access to reliable recovery like that; I mean something like "Fairy Punch" is fine but just not recovery.

    The news is also pretty beneficial to Absol as well. One of Absol's biggest issues has always been making the opponent attack against the obvious Sucker Punch. Now it can Mega Evolve to get Magic Bounce and then Sucker Punch on the same turn. For a lot of Pokemon that situation becomes 'damned if you Attack and damned if you don't', which is exactly what Absol has needed (aside from any amount of defense.) Access to Swords Dance and Mega Absol's increased Speed and Attack makes its opponent's situation even more dire since you can't just let Absol sit there Swords Dancing but some Pokemon can't afford to Attack it either. It's an interesting situation for Absol to create but I don't think it will be too big of an issue so long as Absol doesn't have Base 110 Speed or something ridiculous.

    Mega Kangaskhan gets Circle Throw, Drain Punch, Sucker Punch, and Sing. Parental Bond Circle Throw just sounds delicious and I'm likely going to be disappointed by it not shuffling the opponent twice, but I can dream. Even if the baby only hits for half damage compared to the parent, that's still essentially a STAB boost on Sucker Punch which, as many people know, I'm a sucker for that and will hype it to no end. Drain Punch will likely be a staple. Sing is just something that could work well since it sings twice so it actually has some decent accuracy, but that's assuming the 2nd attack still goes if the 1st misses.

    Ampharos is hard to call. An Electric/Dragon seems like both Rain and Sun's best friend as both a Dragon with STAB Rain Thunder and a Dragon that nukes opposing Rain teams. It also has Cotton Guard to increase its Defense by +3 stages so it kinda laughs at EQ I guess. Parabolic Charge is going to be this thing's best friend when it's not using Thunder since it loses Leftovers for a Mega Stone. As a defensive kind of Dragon, I can see it doing way better than poor Altaria could ever dream but this thing's speed is probably still going to be the death of it. If Hydreigon doesn't fall to UU, Ampharos is really going to shine down there while likely still maintaining some presence in OU but, again, this one's usefulness is hard to call.

    Mega Blaziken is just Speed Boost Blaziken Part Two since Mega Evolution doesn't eat a turn so we kind of already know where this thing is going. Especially since it can Baton Pass. Baton Pass Blaziken was hell in the old Dream World tier and there's just so little that I could imagine in XY keeping this thing out of Ubers. I mean nothing short of Topsy-Turvy having priority would stop this train.

    I think I covered everything I wanted to talk about. Venting and all that.
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  6. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    Wow i didn't even realize how much the button benefits both MegaMawile and MegaAbsol. I think the intimidate that megamawile will get on top of huge power is awesome. However, does the pokemon change back to normal on switch? I don't think so because of the wording "reverts after battle" then again, this could be possible. This would be the difference between an intimidate on every switch-in or just the first. The same kind of thing goes for Absol, although less important.
  7. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Judging by the sound of it, I don't think Mega evolutions revert on the switch. I think they last until the end of the battle.

    If they DO happen to only last until the next switch, that would certainly be a damper on Mega Evoution's viability. It probably wouldn't matter as much for the evolutions that are purely offensive based, since they can just come in like always and set up. On more defensive evolutions, like Mawile, who's going to be relying on the Mega Evolution to actually survive hits, it would be an issue. Not actually having those boosted defenses on the switch would be a major problem, and would kind of defeat the purpose of having those boosted defenses. Of course, being able to Intimidate every time it came in would be nice, but I would think that wouldn't be enough to salvage its poor defenses.

    Of course, this is all assuming the unlikely possibility that the evolutions revert after a switch.
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  8. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
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    I think that something many people are failing to realize is that the Mega Evolution Stone allows you to bluff Choice items. Unlike the Expert Belt, you can change forms, which can be very useful in certain situations. For example, Absol can bluff a Choice Scarf set by using Night Slash and when a defensive Steel-type like Ferrothorn comes in, it can transform into Mega Absol and prevent Ferrothorn from setting up entry hazards thanks to Magic Bounce.
  9. False Sense

    False Sense

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    That's an interesting point. I hadn't thought of that. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the pokemon revealed to have Mega Evolutions (aside from maybe Mewtwo) actually would use Choice items. Lucario is usually best off running a Swords Dance set, while the other non-Uber pokemon aren't really seen in OU at all. They could probably pull that sort of thing off in their own tiers, but in OU, if you see an Absol on an OU team, then it almost certainly would be for the purpose of Mega Evolving. No one's going to be using Choice Scarf Absol in OU anytime soon as far as I can tell. Now, if something that commonly uses Choice items in OU got a Mega Evolution, like Scizor (purely example, not saying it will), then that sort of bluff could be pulled off much more successfully. It really depends on what actually gets a Mega Evolution, I guess.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
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  10. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    I hadn't thought of that. I was focused on the intimidate ad not switching in on the attack; obviously it would benefit MegaMawile, and pretty much all of the MegaPokemon if evolution is kept until end of battle. I Really don't think it would revert on a switch, but I was just throwing it out there.
    Anyways, the choice item bluff is interesting, but I'm gonna have to agree with False Sense on this; the Pokemon who have MegaEvolutions generally wouldn't want to run choice sets. This was a great thing to point out, but I'm unsure how relevant it will be. I would say kanghaskhan might like bluffing, but attacking twice with higher stats would be silly to pass up just for a bluff.
  11. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    OMG imagine if things like Scizor or Latios get it since you can bluff the choice item and then -- bam -- evolve, change your typing, and even stats (omg speed tiers) and ATTACK the same turn.


    The mindgames gdi...


    Also MegaLucario gets a stronger BP, and the raw attack stat boost could make up for the lack of LO (you can't bluff though lol)
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
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  12. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    Hopefully baton pass will finally be suspect if mega mawile becomes used in bp teams.

    sick and tired of that brainless playstyle.
  13. Gogeta

    Gogeta

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    To those of you saying Lucario won't have base 157 attack, don't count your chickens, lol.

    If they're willing to give Mawile what is the equivalent of a base 210 attack or something (Idk how it's calculated but it's around that), and buff Mewtwo's special attack, a Lucario with base 157 attack would not surprise me at all.
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  14. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    This would be ridiculous. MegaLatios and MegaScizor give me shivers...
    I think this is important to keep in mind.
  15. CarbonTheSecond

    CarbonTheSecond

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    I sorta have to wonder as to how MegaEvolution will affect the eviolite. I get the feeling that, since mega stones can't be obtained via normal gameplay, the eviolite won't give boosts to normal Blaziken and co., but nonetheless, it's well within the realm of possibility. Thoughts?
  16. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Well, I don't think the eviolite would be remotely affected by mega-evolution at all. By the looks of it, only fully evolved pokemon can mega-evolve, so the Eviolite wouldn't work on them regardless...
  17. GCSChris

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    CarbonTheSecond is saying since eviolite is worded "This item, when attached to a Pokémon that is capable of evolving, will boost the Pokémon's Defense and Special Defense by 50%.", eviolite could potentially work on pokemon like Blaziken and Lucario. However, I don't think MegaEvolution and evolution will be treated the same way. I understand the point, and it is a good point, but i think it is a bit outside the realm of possibility. And anyways, no pokemon that currently gets a MegaEvolution would really want to run eviolite over any other item.
  18. False Sense

    False Sense

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    OH, I see. Though I agree with GCSChris, I don't think Mega-Evolving would really count as being capable of evolving. Especially since the purpose of the Eviolite seems to be to give a boost to weaker, unevolved pokemon to help them survive, rather than just giving a general boost to whatever is holding it. In other words, I think it was designed more for the purpose of babying unevolved pokemon, and probably won't affect the fully evolved pokemon that can mega-evolve.
  19. Sleepless

    Sleepless

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    I read somewhere, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you will be able to carry only one Mega-evolution item.
    If so, the situation promotes mind gaming, in a way you can carry both absol and blaziken, and the opponent won't know which of it's counters keep alive, if for mega absol or for mega blaziken. So just for the option to mega-evolution to be existed is fearsome enough.

    Another point I want to note is about the mega-evolution items. For example, the DeepSeaScale, while it exists only to evolve Clamperl into Gorebyss, it also has a "side-effect" of Doubling Clamperl's Sp. Def. The Lucarionite, can also maybe raise Lucario's stat for x1.1 or x1.2 or whatever.
  20. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Currently, yeah these Pokemon can't abuse Eviolite. However, things like Scizor could; I mean it gets Swords Dance and Roost that would be pretty bulky in rain considering it's only weaknesses is already halved without an Eviolite boost.

    I heard a Rumor from PokeBeach that TTar, Abamasnow, and Lati@s were getting MegeEvolutions (from, apparently, a reliable source).

    Please don't take the rumor to heart, but if I were to entertain it; alongside the possible Evio possibilities (because it IS possible)...

    Things like TTar could bluff the choice item and not only have the option of MegaEvolving but also running Eviolite? Evio is better than Chople Berry, and it would boosts its huge SpD stat as well! Abamasnow already sucks, but if it could MegeEvolve (change it's typing possibly?) then that would be pretty insane.

    Also, let's say Lucario get's a speed stat boost as well as an attack boost (Nintendo is known for only giving partial information, after all). Let's say I switch into my Garchomp to tank a CC and EQ, right? Well let's say the next turn Lucario MegaEvolves and it's speed tier rises to 102, allowing it to Ice Punch Garchomp for the OHKO.

    Mind you, this is a pretty raw example; but it gets the point I'm trying to get across: how will morphing base stats effect competitive play?

    The concepts that Fully Evolved Pokemon can use Eviolite (this is truly terrifying for bulky set up sweepers and I could see Lucario nerfing EQ's and Ice Punching...) and Pokemon can morph their stats (possibly even switch them like Meloetta and Darmanitan do; changing their offensive spectrums and go from Specially oriented to Physically and smacking dedicated walls like Chansey, etc. super hard O_O)
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  21. GCSChris

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    I thing that's wrong, but if someone else could confirm that would be nice. I found this on Pokebeach
    This means you should be able to "find every one of them" and keep them, so I'm thinking you can have more than one. I can't find anything saying otherwise.
    I don't think it would be like this because it would be confusing. Does it increase Lucario's stats even after MegaEvolution? Is that boost a x1.1 increase on its new or old stats? etc. Also, I feel this is a bit different because they change back. With stuff like the DeepSeaScale, you evolve and loose the effect, and you can't go back. I understand this but am unsure whether this would be real.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
  22. Manitary

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    That's not entirely true, Blazikenite is only avaible with the event Torchic.
  23. GCSChris

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    I'm saying GF seems like they want people to "collect them all" so I'd doubt you can only hold one of them.
  24. TaBuu

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    MegaLucario: This guy has to be the biggest downer out of all the newly revealed MegaEvolutions.
    Gaining a more powerful Close Combat and Bullet Punch with a higher base Attack in exchange for Life Orb is not worth the deal in my opinion. Honestly, regular LO SD Lucario will probably stay above MegaLucario, as it serves no bigger niche or purpose other than possessing a viable Bullet Punch.
    I don't mean to rain on anybody's parade for this guy but unless GameFreak gifts him with a higher base Speed upon evolving, I'm not too excited for him. *crossing fingers hoping for higher base Speed*

    MegaMawile: There's already been a ton of discussion on this guy and so I won't be redundant. But basically I'm hoping onto the "Mawile is OP" boat. Intimidating the opposing Pokemon then Subbing on the hit or switch while MegaEvolving? Too OP, if you ask me. Swords Dance and Huge Power will escalate his Attack to stupidly high levels. He might not even have to carry Sucker Punch for all we know. So far from what we know MegaMawile is a serious Top 5 OU contender and possibly suspect, depending on how Gen VI rolls out.

    MegaAmpharos: Maybe I'm just the oddball here but I really like his cute little dragon design~
    Electric - Dragon as previously stated is a serious typing. Being able to handle Sun and Rain? It's an absolute blessing. Poor Ampharos might not even get a stat change (although I'm doubting ...). But who cares, as Base 115 SpA is more than enough and 90/75/90 defenses should be amazing when things like Cotton Guard is utilized.
    MegaAmpharos might not be the next Dragon Dance Dragonite or Specs Latios but he'll definitely see the lights of OU as he'll find his unique niche as "Dragon Tank".

    MegaKangeskhan: Straight up, I'm in love with this guy. But not as much as MegaAmpharos.
    Parental Bond is stupidly silly as the potentials are endless. Things like Skarmory might not appreciate taking two Focus Punches and then getting swung right out of battle with Circle Throw or something lol.
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  25. False Sense

    False Sense

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    This sentence seems to imply that Bullet Punch on Lucario isn't viable. Nitpicking aside, everything else Tabuu said seems pretty spot on. Mega Lucario will probably need some notable stat boost to be more viable than regular Life Orb Lucario, while Mega Mawile, with it's ability, typing, and improved defenses, is probably going to be good. That being said, I think a lot of this really depends on the size of the stat boost these Mega Evolutions receive. If they're serious about making these evolutions "Mega powerful," we could potentially see very large increases in stats, which in turn could compensate for the lack of an item.

    By the way, speaking of large stat boosts, what's the likelihood that Mega Evolutions get more than one stat boost? Like for Lucario, maybe it could get a large attack boost, but also get a small defense boost? If these really are like evolutions, I think it's perfectly reasonable they would get an evolution-like boost to their stats. Not to mention, something like additional bulk for the offensive pokemon would be great for justifying their use over their normal counterparts.

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