Pokémon Lopunny

[firehusky]

Lol I don't know my speed tiers well, then I think outspeding modest mega sceptile should be the best, because it can actually do quite a lot of damage with leaf storm.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

I think outspeeding timid mega sceptile is all you need imo, mega zam isn't really common and neither is mega aero, I can't think of any important base 130s right now and maybe outspeeding +1 adamant mega gyara is important but I think it can definitely tank a hit.

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Lopunny: 258-304 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Just barely, and with just one layer of Stealth Rock or Spikes on the field, it's a guaranteed OHKO; plus, Lopunny sure as hell doesn't want to switch into an attack like that anyway. Also, outrunning +1 Mega Gyarados and Dragonite is a little more significant than you imply, since 1) they're extremely common and typically placed high on viability ranking threads 2) they're more than powerful enough that they can easily set up a boost and mow over offensively-inclined teams without a proper revenge killer. Really, just outspeed it and get it overwith without shedding blood.

Additionally, you need some extra juice to outrun Jolly Garchomp, Timid Landorus, and other threats in the base 100 Speed range in Lopunny's unevolved state (they're commonly safe Pokemon to Mega Evolve on because they're slower and you can use Ice Punch on them), in which case it requires 232 EVs which also outruns Adamant Mega Alakazam, Mega Aerodactyl, and Mega Beedrill, all of which are just mere pocket change. At this point, just maxing the Speed out sounds is a pretty fair deal, since the extra 20 HP EVs (+5 HP) are gonna help Lopunny survive...what exactly??? I mean, Mega Manectric maxes out its Speed, and you don't hear anybody complaining, so why shouldn't Lopunny be allowed to 50/50 it if your main Manectric check/counter is dead? It's not like Volt Switch or Thunderbolt does major damage, so it's not an entirely lost cause.

You're never going to outspeed Timid Sceptile (145 base speed), as it tends to speed creep down to be just faster than Mega Manectric and Mega Lopunny. Mega Aero and Mega Zam are not common, but they are relevant (A- and B+ in the viability thread right now). Again, it may not all be useful all the time, just worth noting if you want to clean up dead EVs. I don't really see a reason to run 252 Jolly speed unless you want to speed tie Manectric, Zam and Aero are the next real possible speed tier out there. If Lopunny is valuable to your team (and possibly at -1), I'm going to switch it to my Mega Mane check anyway.

See above.

 

[Stallion]

People need to stop trying to be cute with ev spreads and realise that maxing speed is the way to go. Nothing wrong with a 252/252 spread.

 

[Celticpride]

OK, just to be clear, I wasn't advocating that anyone run less than max on Lopunny if they weren't using Substitute (even if I may have actually said that in my second post towards the end). Someone I was talking to was trying to get more bulk on SubPass Lopunny (a really good set imo), wanted to outspeed Greninja iirc, and had a really inefficient EV spread. So I optimized that as much as I could to outspeed Gren while putting more into bulk. Then I figured screw it, may as well do EVs for the rest of the speed benchmarks below base 135, just for common knowledge. That's it. It's just for SubPass Lopunny that want slightly larger Subs. But just for the record, Mega Aerodactyl doesn't run max speed Jolly even if it loses out on Mega Manectric, and some spreads even creep lower than that for more bulk.

 

[alexwolf]

Just use max Speed on Mega Lopunny, as you should do with any fast and frail / not bulky Pokemon (exceptions exist, but Lopunny isn't one). Now, let's move on...

 

[Hootie]

Okay moving on then... what do you guys think the best set is at this point? I haven't gotten to any testing yet, but I'm leaning towards HJK/Return/Ice Punch/Healing wish.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Okay moving on then... what do you guys think the best set is at this point? I haven't gotten to any testing yet, but I'm leaning towards HJK/Return/Ice Punch/Healing wish.

I've experimented, admittedly, maybe too much with mLop, and I've got agree with you here. Of all the sets this has single handedly been the best of all of them.

 

[firehusky]

I prefer fake out + HJK + return + ice punch, because fake out gives lopunny the ability to mega evolve safely, so it can go again next turn with it's high speed.

 

[jppness]

So heres the set that I've been running. Just hit 1400 on Oras easily and I'm climbing fast.


Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Baton Pass
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch


I really believe that Adamant > Jolly because you are giving away so much power by going jolly. The reasoning behind this is that there is so many fast mons running around with scarf that you don't need Jolly since you are going to get outsped anyways. If you need something that fast run scarf ninja or noivern anyways. The real reason to run Adamant is the sheer power of HJK. Baton Pass is purely for momentum and scouting. It also has that fast baton pass > Mega.

Heres some calcs

252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO


252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-342 (81.8 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(You just have to play mind games with protect. Like Ice Punch then HJK)
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Mandibuzz: 169-201 (39.9 - 47.5%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-342 (81.8 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 138-163 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Of Moose & Men]

I've been using a SubPunch set, and I've gotta say, it's pretty damn amazing. Not too many things want to deal with taking a Focus Punch from this monster, especially when scrappy is involved. It also allows for you to play around the dreaded Protect HJK game, just click sub, and Fire away. Although I will admit, it takes away from the hit and run tactics she usually sticks to, on a balanced team, it runs train. It doesn't allow anything to take advantage and set up in your face, and thus forces things to attack regardless of if they want to or not unless it's broken mence. I simply took my old mMaw team and slapped mLop on it, and boy has it worked. A base 225 attack coming from mLop is not easy to stomach, I'll tell you that much.

 

[firehusky]

So heres the set that I've been running. Just hit 1400 on Oras easily and I'm climbing fast.


Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Baton Pass
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch


I really believe that Adamant > Jolly because you are giving away so much power by going jolly. The reasoning behind this is that there is so many fast mons running around with scarf that you don't need Jolly since you are going to get outsped anyways. If you need something that fast run scarf ninja or noivern anyways. The real reason to run Adamant is the sheer power of HJK. Baton Pass is purely for momentum and scouting. It also has that fast baton pass > Mega.

Heres some calcs

252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO


252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-342 (81.8 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(You just have to play mind games with protect. Like Ice Punch then HJK)
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Mandibuzz: 169-201 (39.9 - 47.5%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-342 (81.8 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 138-163 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I think you should probably run return somewhere on there because if he has a fairy or psychic on his team, HJK won't hit very hard, and ice punch isn't that good on a neutral hit and return hits lots of stuff for good neutral damage. Also btw scarf greninja isn't viable at all because it needs coverage, and it's already really fast.

 

[jppness]

I think you should probably run return somewhere on there because if he has a fairy or psychic on his team, HJK won't hit very hard, and ice punch isn't that good on a neutral hit and return hits lots of stuff for good neutral damage. Also btw scarf greninja isn't viable at all because it needs coverage, and it's already really fast.

Well I've seen well respected pokemon players run scarf ninja like AIM and chimpact. You won't need return because you can let your team take care of that coverage. Baton Pass straight to ninja or to a counter for fairies/psychics.

 

[Aragorn the King]

I think you should probably run return somewhere on there because if he has a fairy or psychic on his team, HJK won't hit very hard, and ice punch isn't that good on a neutral hit and return hits lots of stuff for good neutral damage. Also btw scarf greninja isn't viable at all because it needs coverage, and it's already really fast.

Yeah in this state of the metagame, ScarfNinja isn't dreadful, because it's one of the few consistent revenege killers to MegaMence. It loses out on a lot of power, and shouldn't be used unless your team is weak to mmence, but since that's a really state to be in now, scarf ninja can be a pretty easy remedy.

As for Lopunny, I've been seeing it everywhere. Seriously, of my say 10 oras battles so far, about half of them featured an opposing mega lopp. It's honestly just that good, with completely unresisted STAB moves, a way to mega evolve safely, and great coverage. I also saw healing wish once, and it worked really well w/ sd talon. It honestly has so many support moves, and since fake out and ice punch are pretty changeable, lop seems to have endless possibilities.

 

[firehusky]

Well I've seen well respected pokemon players run scarf ninja like AIM and chimpact. You won't need return because you can let your team take care of that coverage. Baton Pass straight to ninja or to a counter for fairies/psychics.

Those are only used for certain purposes, like taking out scarf lando-t, and for surprise purpose. It could be used to take out mmence, but that's about it. Most teams should have a way of beating mence anyways, and honestly, it's going to be banned.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Here's the thing about this Lopunny set. . .
If you're going to run BP, you want it on one of two things, a poke that has set up to obscene levels ready to pass it to a sweeper, or to get a switch out into a favorable match up. The problem with that is, mLopunny is far too fast for that to work out correctly. If you go for BP, you outspeed, and your switch in gets rocked by an attack. Yea, it may be resisted, but it's damage nonetheless, and that's IF they don't predict you to go for the switch. mLop should be used to hit hard as shit, and take off. Here's the real problem though. that's what switching does anyway, so why waste a moveslot for it?

 

[Machi]

Here's the thing about this Lopunny set. . .
If you're going to run BP, you want it on one of two things, a poke that has set up to obscene levels ready to pass it to a sweeper, or to get a switch out into a favorable match up. The problem with that is, mLopunny is far too fast for that to work out correctly. If you go for BP, you outspeed, and your switch in gets rocked by an attack. Yea, it may be resisted, but it's damage nonetheless, and that's IF they don't predict you to go for the switch. mLop should be used to hit hard as shit, and take off. Here's the real problem though. that's what switching does anyway, so why waste a moveslot for it?

Primarily because of Goth and to some extent Wobb (worse if it is Wobb), other than that there is no particular reason just that the meta is obsessed with trapping and MLop happens to be vulnerable to it. No doubt there are better options but it is viable if only to deal with trappers.

 

[Celticpride]

Here's the thing about this Lopunny set. . .
If you're going to run BP, you want it on one of two things, a poke that has set up to obscene levels ready to pass it to a sweeper, or to get a switch out into a favorable match up. The problem with that is, mLopunny is far too fast for that to work out correctly. If you go for BP, you outspeed, and your switch in gets rocked by an attack. Yea, it may be resisted, but it's damage nonetheless, and that's IF they don't predict you to go for the switch. mLop should be used to hit hard as shit, and take off. Here's the real problem though. that's what switching does anyway, so why waste a moveslot for it?

Baton Pass on Lopunny is like Volt Switch on Mega Manectric. When both parties consider switching, it's essentially a 50/50 for both sides. Because Baton Pass does not have increased priority, unlike switching, it allows you to gain momentum. Say you have Mega Lopunny and your opponent has Heatran. You have Celebi and Conk in reserve and your opponent has Slowbro. Instead of trying to predict what your opponent is going to send in, you use Baton Pass. If the opponent switches to Slowbro (and you know if they will or not), you BP to Celebi. If they stay with Heatran, anticipating the switch to Celebi, you send in Conk. You now hold virtually all the momentum. This scenario also applys to VoltTurn in general, and why it's so valuable. For something with an unresisted STAB combo, it can more than afford to luxury of using BP to predict switches.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Baton Pass on Lopunny is like Volt Switch on Mega Manectric. When both parties consider switching, it's essentially a 50/50 for both sides. Because Baton Pass does not have increased priority, unlike switching, it allows you to gain momentum. Say you have Mega Lopunny and your opponent has Heatran. You have Celebi and Conk in reserve and your opponent has Slowbro. Instead of trying to predict what your opponent is going to send in, you use Baton Pass. If the opponent switches to Slowbro (and you know if they will or not), you BP to Celebi. If they stay with Heatran, anticipating the switch to Celebi, you send in Conk. You now hold virtually all the momentum. This scenario also applys to VoltTurn in general, and why it's so valuable. For something with an unresisted STAB combo, it can more than afford to luxury of using BP to predict switches.

That's true I suppose. I'm not quite one for going about using BP. Didn't think of it in that way. However, to run it over Return I must disagree with. When you have 4 slots, and 2 of which are pretty much free, you don't get rid of one of the two almost must haves this thing should be carrying. Honestly, I don't think it's got as much weight as manectric does simply because it's able to also intimidate opponents forcing switches as it comes in. With Lopunny, it's a bit more situational as to when you'll be clicking BP. There are however two advantages to carrying BP, as yourself and Machi pointed out. But at the expense of a base 153 STAB just isn't worth it to me. Especially since you can only carry 1 BP user on any given team at a time. I just can't see it as a BP user.

 

[Celticpride]

I didn't realize someone suggested running it over Return. I thought we were talking about something along the lines of Return + HJK + BP + Ice Punch/Fake Out/whatever else. I would much sooner drop Fake Out for BP if anything. I really can't see Lopunny not running Return + Fighting STAB actually.

Also, BP gives you the ability to Mega Evolve and then Pass in a scenario where you would normally switch-out without Mega Evolving. So you can potentially take advantage of higher speed earlier on, and it can also help in matches that have smaller windows to Mega Evolve.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Yeah, dry passing is pretty legit, but definitely run Return > Ice Punch on that set. The deal with Ice Punch is that even when it's hitting super effectively, neutral High Jump Kick and Return are still hitting harder after STAB. That said, there are only a few things such as Landorus-T, Gliscor, Garchomp, and Dragonite that are actually hit harder by Ice Punch than by either of Lopunny's STABs. Ice Punch is just so weak against pretty much anything that it isn't hitting super effectively, while Return is basically guaranteed to do pretty solid damage to anything that isn't already hit hard by High Jump Kick. It's a cool move on a 3 attacks set since it nails Landorus-T and Gliscor (who could otherwise tank your STABs quite nicely), but if you're dealing with two move coverage, High Jump Kick + Return is so much better thanks to the high base power of both STAB moves and the perfect neutral coverage between them.

 

[firehusky]

Agent Gibbs put it perfectly. Ice Punch is way too weak even against 2x super effective, and against a neutral target, high jump kick hits harder. Return has to be used, because dual STABs is just way too good considering that they're unresisted.

 

[Karxrida]

So heres the set that I've been running. Just hit 1400 on Oras easily and I'm climbing fast.


Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Baton Pass
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch


I really believe that Adamant > Jolly because you are giving away so much power by going jolly. The reasoning behind this is that there is so many fast mons running around with scarf that you don't need Jolly since you are going to get outsped anyways. If you need something that fast run scarf ninja or noivern anyways. The real reason to run Adamant is the sheer power of HJK. Baton Pass is purely for momentum and scouting. It also has that fast baton pass > Mega.

Heres some calcs

252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO


252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-342 (81.8 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(You just have to play mind games with protect. Like Ice Punch then HJK)
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Mandibuzz: 169-201 (39.9 - 47.5%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-342 (81.8 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 138-163 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Little late to the party here, but never run Adamant. Losing out to Greninja is huge and being unable to revenge Mega Manectric and +1 Mega Gyarados really sucks in general.

 

[firehusky]

Also losing out on the speed tie against other mega lopunny can be game changing.

 

[Machi]

Agent Gibbs put it perfectly. Ice Punch is way too weak even against 2x super effective, and against a neutral target, high jump kick hits harder. Return has to be used, because dual STABs is just way too good considering that they're unresisted.

Well it is primarily important where you simply just need to clean and not risk the 10% miss and recoil that HJK has as well as being your best ways to dent incoming Fairy/Psychic, generally against Latios. So yeah it is more or less mandatory if only to hit relevant threats neutrally. BP I would honestly not run it if Goth wasn't so damned prolific since Lando-T Indimidates are what you are more likely to pass.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Ice Punch is typically carried for one reason, and that's things that are x4 weak to it. Return hits harder than a super effective Ice Punch.

Basically, Return is a must have, Ice punch is there for LandoT and Dragonite otherwise it's expendable. . . And freezing mega mence.