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DPP OU Losing Is An Incapability - 100% Win Ratio

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Taylor, Aug 6, 2008.

  1. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    It has been some time since I last posted a team. At first, I was going to wait until I had a chance to use this team in a tournament match before I went ahead and threw it here, but I realised that there wasn't a tournament I was participating in that required this team. Then, after some degree of success with this build, I finally thought to myself that I would post this impressive team onto the boards.

    The team itself is basically summed up as 'offensive'. Common style? I know. The team's performing extraordinarilly well with an incredible 100% win-rate on the OverUsed ladder in around 30 matches. I may seem a little over exaggarant, but I can assure you that it has indeed achieved this goal.

    The strategy is straight forward: Use anti-lead Infernape to set Stealth Rock onto the field of play and take advantage of its benefits as a lead, then finally overwhelm the opponent with the offensively-packed arsenal I have at my disposal. I like Pokemon that can sweep without much support, which, essentially put, individual win conditions. Lone stars that can sweep respectably well on their own. 'Synergy' is perhaps what this team isn't about, albeit after the team was built the six creatures alone rewarded me with some typing synergy.

    And now, the team...

    [​IMG]

    Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 48 Atk/208 Spd/252 SAtk
    Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Close Combat
    - Fire Blast
    - Fake Out
    - Stealth Rock

    What's this? Well... it can be found in our peer edits section of the forum. Simply takes advantage of opposing leads that also commit themselves to Focus Sash with Fake Out. As short as the list is, this Infernape finds itself capable of scaring away Bronzong from turn one, thus allowing me to set-up Stealth Rock without fear of Hypnosis or Stealth Rock opposition. Infernape hits 334 Speed, which allows it to outspeed Garchomp. If I'm fortunate, Close Combat or Fire Blast can induce a hefty ammount of damage with their powerful 180 Base Power.



    [​IMG]

    Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Ice Fang
    - Stone Edge
    - Waterfall

    The offensive Gyarados that is supported with Life Orb for that extra kick. Ironically countering his own counters - Starmie and Celebi - with the addition of Life Orb, which happens to be a bonus; though it always is. I initially structered this Gyarados as the bulky varient but then found myself manufacturing a team that worked independently - all chipping in their shares in hopes to wear down the opponent - so eventually I switched to Life Orb with the offensively-based spread so I could deal more damage to my opponent over all.



    [​IMG]

    Metagross @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 112 HP/184 Atk/212 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Explosion
    - Earthquake

    First things first, thanks to Council for introducing this Metagross in public. Specifically amazing for me because I have an answer to Gengar and Deoxys, without having to resort to dodgy prediction; that usually ends up in a disaster. According to its description, with the HP EVs Metagross can survive one Jolly Garchomp's Earthquake after Stealth Rock damage has been dealt. Situational seems to be the metagame's craze these days, and this Metagross proves that point. Oftenly enough, I explode immediately after Gengar or Deoxys have been cleared.



    [​IMG]

    Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP/180 Def/76 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Roost

    The best Salamence ever created; well I believe so. It's so dominent on its own. Dragon Dance and Roost grant an amazing reward in a sense that I can begin to prepare for a sweep whilst simultainuously keeping up a reasonable defense. Metagross and Salamence cover one another's weaknesess into resistances; which suprisingly was an intended move on my part, as I was keen to test the two together in this generation. Life Orb is a favourite of mine, so it got the nod over Leftovers.



    [​IMG]

    Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    - Stone Edge

    I prefer Stone Edge to any other fourth move on Garchomp. It's actually an important addition to my moveset, as now I can outspeed Gyarados - even after one Dragon Dance - and force it to attack while I Stone Edge and hope for the critical hit, and if not then my Deoxys is guaranteed a OHKO with Thunderbolt afterwards. Bronzong ultimately tears me apart slowly, as I cannot hit it with Metagross, Deoxys, or Salamence, so Fire Blast is strictly necessary.



    [​IMG]

    Deoxys-e @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Ice Beam
    - Shadow Ball
    - Superpower
    - Thunderbolt

    Self-explanitory by now, is it not? We see Deoxys everwhere. It provides me with a much appreciated late-game clean up; after all, it's arguably the best! I'm forced to use maximum Speed considering most - if not all - aggressive Deoxys do. Shadow Ball verus Psychic is debatable; perhaps Psychic would be the better choice considering I don't have to oppose Deoxys if I'm shceduled to trap them with my Metagross, unless of course I'm in a tight situation and cannot afford to switch in Metagross or unless it has fainted already. Debatable decision, I guess. Expert Belt may in fact be the inferior option to Life Orb considering I don't run Tyranitar or Hippowdon, but I prefer the certainty to know that Deoxys isn't a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

    ---------------

    Unfortunately I had to rush this RMT, so understand that it may not be as clear as I intended.

    Enjoy!
  2. grizzly bear

    grizzly bear

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    I like it, Taylor. I never really thought of how beneficial Fake Out is in the SR Lead vs SR Lead scenario. I don't really have anything helpful to say, but if the team is doing as well as you say you probably aren't looking to change much. But anyways, I really like the team overall, kind of surprised I have not played it yet.
  3. StarmanXL

    StarmanXL

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    Nice team...honestly, I don't quite get how offensive teams work, but I can find no fault on this team.

    One question, though; why, exactly, Fake Out on Infernape? Is it solely to disrupt suicide SR leads? If so, wouldn't it still fail against Azelf, who'd outspeed you next turn and use SR? And also, why not Taunt so you can prevent pokemon that switch into Infernape from using SR, such as Swampert once it realizes you're not running Grass Knot? Of course, if it works, then I've no real reason to say anything...
  4. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
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    Fake Out incatacipates opposing Focus Sash leads, basically. That's really an added bonus onto the fact I can scare Bronzong away and set up Stealth Rock, though. Infernape is a natural at forcing the opponent to switch with its diverse movepool, so I end up setting up Stealth Rock for free. Afterwards, I then proceed to attack until it falls.

    There are other options over Fake Out, such as Will O Wisp, Grass Knot, Encorce, etcetera. Perhaps nulifying opposing Focus Sash leads isn't the most effective option after all?
  5. Sei

    Sei

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    What about making your Gyarados Jolly natured?
    For one, it outspeeds Jolteon after a DD, and then the common Jolly Mamoswine w/o any boosting. That might be beneficial if your Nape's down in the early game.
  6. TwinkleNova

    TwinkleNova

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    This is a pretty amazing team.
    But I agree that a Jolly Gyara would work.

    Not a really good rater but it's my first.

    Cool Sig BTW.
    It would be pretty cool if I had a sig like that.

    Master of the Curse.
    With Snorlax, Lickilicky and Miltank.

    Now that would be awesome.
  7. gec

    gec i've been crawling through the falling
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    Have you by any chance faced a standard Crobat lead? I may be wrong but that would nullify your whole Ape set up. You probably have that taken care of but a Crobat could stop your SR, thus ruining a crucial part of your plan. You could still set SR up later so thats not really a problem.

    I would just go max speed on Ape since IMO outspeeding Chomp has no reward really.

    Not much else to say really. Looks like a great team (and it has to be with that win record). No SDLuke or Deoxys-e weak makes me happy ;_;.

    -GEC
  8. gorm

    gorm
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    cb mamo weak as probably alot of people have pointed out, but its still badical. really love the gross/mence

    it's about time people started making offensive teams with metagross jesus christ.

    sash gengar lead (hypnosis sb fb explode) can cause problems but that lead messes anyone up
  9. Olie

    Olie

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    This team looks quite excellent, Taylor.
    CB mamo is not TOO rampant, so Your team should work fine anyway.
    I'm going to make an RMT with a Team loosely based on this, and maybe make a team for the tour based on it.
    =)
  10. Dekzeh

    Dekzeh It's the sound of the world ending.
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    I would like to see a better answer for Bronzong tbh.

    Infernape can't really switch in since even Gyro Ball takes a lot of HP, Gyarados is your best bet but it can switch only so many times with Stealth Rock up. Explosing with Metagross is an alternative, but very far from a good one, especially since with Metagross dead your only way from stoping enemy Deoxys is wining a speed tie.


    Problems with LO Starmie, kinda. If on the first/second turn it switches on Infernape, you can only revenge kill it with Deoxys or again, Explode with Metagross.

    I would just ditch the Infernape set actually. You waste those Azelf/Dactyl leads Sash. Ok. They're still faster and can either Taunt or Stealth Rock on the next turn and even if you kill them after that, they had already done their job and you didnt do yours (unless you also waste your Sash).

    You probably won't like what I'm suggesting but I really think SRock, Leech Seed, Grass Knot, Recover Celebi could work over Infernape, but not as a lead obviously. It doesn't quite fits the team but its always an alternative I guess >_>
  11. Brawley

    Brawley
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    Woah this team looks similiar to one of my old ladder teams, anyways I would consider ddnite over salmence as dragonite has 1 less attack point, but it has a higher special defense tier than empoleon so you can run less in hp and add that to attack for more power, or you can just go all sweeper and just send in chomp first just to scout the dragon counter, weaken it, then send out Dragonite late game to sweep. Finally after testing I have found that Earthquake is way better than stone edge as it stops random shit like metagross from killing you.
    Nice team btw, anyways all this is just for suggestion, and I seriously dont think you're take any of these rates seriously as you have a great team here already.
  12. Sudo

    Sudo

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    Great team over all, but I have an issue with Garchomp: why Fire Bast over Fire Fang? Most Bronzongs run Max HP and significant Special Defense investment, so a nature+EV boosted physical attack would do much more damage (it's a 3HKO, two at most if it has taken any prior damage at all), whereas Fire Blast is a 4-5HKO, most likely more with its poor accuracy. Huge difference. I don't see how Fire Blast is going to have any advantage at all (Skarmory is rather insignificant, Deoxys takes care of it easily), so I'd definitely change it.

    By the way, CC and FB have 120 BP, not 180. I wish they had.. ;3

    Edit: Didn't realize that Fire Blast is recommended for the CS set on its page.. I think it's due for a change, though.
  13. feral_brute

    feral_brute

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    This team really looks well constructed and as the win-loss record indicates, it truly is.

    I've found that having a lead that does what YOU need it to as opposed to countering every other lead possible is generally the best approach to take. I like the infernape idea, personally.

    Gyara rapes everything as usual, and I really like that Metagross set.
    It seems to require a little prediction about whether Deoxys is going to risk staying in and eating a bullet punch or switch out and die to pursuit. I'd be interested to know which move you are generally more inclined to use in that situation.

    I've never used a defensive DDmence, but when he's paired with metagross, it's usually a winning combination.

    Great team!
  14. Blazer

    Blazer

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    I love the team, Even though the movesets are different it has 5/6 pokemon on the main team I use.

    Just one question though, and that is why all the speed on Gyarados? Couldn't you throw some EVs into HP or something and still outspeed stuff like Starmie and Gengar, or is there something else you are trying to outspeed?
  15. hulksmash

    hulksmash

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    The team looks great as a whole, but how does it respond to Swampert and other bulky waters like Suicune, Milotic, etc. The only poke that scores a super-effective hit is Deoxys, who doesn't pack enough power to OHKO any of them. Swampert seems to be a big obstacle for your team, with no Grass-type attacks whatsoever.


    Love the attack base for this team though.
  16. Metabou

    Metabou

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    You have a very nice team Taylor but one thing I might change if I were you is give Gyarados only 232 Spe so after a Dragon Dance it can out speed Weavile since it won't be outspeeding Jolteon or anything with that much speed anyways and put those EV's in Hp but it isn't like it really matters anyways. Also I would rather use Earthquake rather than Stone Edge but it is just me.
  17. ViVi

    ViVi

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    I like the team alot, though I have a beef with the Fake Out Lead, it seems somewhat out of place on Infernape, What exactly does it deal with? Weavile is fathomable I guess, but it would likely just switch out..Gengar, obviously, is immune to it.

    I think something like Will-O-Wisp would be far more usefull, Though with 2 Intimidates and Metagross' relative bulk, opposing teams Attack might already be semi neutered.

    Taunt or Encore are reasonable moves for this team, since I imagine quite a bit of prediction is necessary for it (never having used a full on offensive team myself)

    Hope I helped.
  18. bigv9997

    bigv9997

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    Nice mence idea not sure if it works how it is planned but i guess if you send it in as a late game sweeper or even in the middle it would do wonders.
  19. Rag

    Rag "aaaaaaaahhhh!"

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    Fake Out deals with Focus Sash leads, which is extremely common nowdays. Unlike Ambipom, Infernape is very versatile and Gengar cannot switch in without having to fear being hit by either Fire Blast or Flare Blitz.
  20. Bounty

    Bounty

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    I think the 252 speed is needed for Scarf Heatran, who could otherwise stop your speed with dragon pulse or just by booming in your face.
    Anyways, I think it's a great team and I hope never to fight it.
  21. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
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    Yes, but you have to understand that Adamant Mamoswine cannot surpass my Gyarados's Speed because it is maximized. Plus, I am ensured to at least tie with other Gyarados that don't run a beneficial nature in Speed, which is where Stone Edge comes in. As you can see, my answer to enemy Gyarados is limited already, so I appreciate every little aspect I have in the team that can react to Gyarados opposition effectively.

    I don't quite understand this. If I tie with other Infernape and outspeed them, then I cannot Close Combat them after their Defense has dropped one stage that would initially allow me to OHKO otherwise because I was slower. I don't necessarily need to maximize my Speed to tie with other Infernape, and there's nothing in between that I can outspeed in the process.

    Well I suppose Bronzong are not capable of touching this, and it does bring forth an answer to bulky Water-types - a difficulty previously mentioned - that potentially put me under some pressure. It's a considerable alternative.

    I use Salamence for the Intimidate factor mainly. The fact that Salamence has similar qualities to Dragonite - though they both have their advantages and disadvantages - doesn't necessarily mean that I want the more bulkier option. Salamence's Speed is an asset I truely adore; after all, you can't complain about how it's capable of outspeeding Lucario and Heatran without a Dragon Dance required! I may perhaps consider this option later on in time.

    I always thought Mamoswine was commonly Adamant natured. I take your point, but Jolteon is by no means a severe threat that I encounter on a regular basis. If my opponent uses Jolteon, then the chances are likely they're leading with it. If that is the case, I will suspect that my opponent will switch in Jolteon, therefore I can always use Waterfall and hope to OHKO Jolteon before it had a chance to pose a threat.

    Thanks for the replies!
  22. Stathakis

    Stathakis I hax people in real life
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    very, mamo weak 5/6 of your team falls to him with just a teensy bit of prior damage. the 6th pokemon is your lead, and usually dies a few turns after setting down sr. I mean, salamence dies to an intimidated ice fang, and jolly mamo outspeeds him. bullet punch on metagross 2HKO's mamo if you factor in life orb damage, but it's dodgy, as in, it does like 40 percent to 0/0 mamo. so basically, you have to choose who you want to sacrifice to get him down to bullet punch range. and then of course he can always switch out. I'd say this is a very mamo weak team. but luckily, there are ways to fix this. first of all, you could try a resttalking bronzong in the place of metagross. now, this thing can still deal with gengar and deoxys, just not trap them. you get reliable sleep absorbing as well as a pretty decent tank, firing around decently powerful gyro balls, and in my experience, the way people deal with bronzong is by trying to wear it down, since it lacks recovery. resttalk is sure to piss loads of people off.

    another option is simply making the gyarados jolly, as other people said. what you lose with this, though, is the ability to 2HKO defensive celebies, which is rather unfortunate, and you still can't really switch into stone edge, but you have a reliable revenge killer who won't mind taking intimidated ice shards, as well as outspeeding jolteon after a dd, so that's not a bad option either.

    those are the two least drastic adjustments. I guess you could always just keep infernape alive until you're sure mamo is dead / not on the team, but a well played jolly LO mamo could do some big damage to this team by the looks of it.

    dunno, just throwing out some options that might make your life easier.
  23. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
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    I appreciate the exaggaration. Yeah, you're are certainly correct on the Mamoswine subject. Thankfully, I have uncertified prediction that allows me to cautiously take down Mamoswine; though it leaves a noticable ammount of damage behind. Addmittedly, that Bronzong seems ideal and legitimate. It is, of course, considered a drastic alternative. I can assure you I well make an effort to give Bronzong a test-run.
  24. QuasiRandom

    QuasiRandom

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    A rather solid team. There are no real weaknesses here since all your Pokemon cover each other's weaknesses well.

    There are a few pokemon that you will have to outmanuever though ( i'm picking at straws mostly). If Metagross goes down, Starmie could wipe out many of your biggest threats. I'm not sure whether full HP bulkymence survives Starmie's ice beam but I think it doesn't and Gyrados require 1 DD to outspeed Starmie. Starmie can take Ape down easily as well as Garchomp if its locked in Outrage. Similarly, Cressellia can hurt your team as well. Of course, Deoxys can take care of both but its something to be aware of.


    Machamp is a mild threat, scoring supereffective hits on Mence, Chomp, Gyarados, and Deoxys-E (since it lacks Psychic).
  25. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
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    What? Gyarados only needs one Dragon Dance to outspeed Starmie. My Deoxys 3HKOs standard Cressilia with Shadow Ball after Stealth Rock; that's not exactly great great. Machamp cannot Rest and Sleep Talk if it scores super effective hits on those four, as Stone Edge, Ice Punch and Payback is required, therefore I don't mind chipping away at its HP until I can finish it off. Finally, Starmie cannot successfully survive an Outrage after Stealth Rock damage has been dealt.

    But obviously if a team loses one of its members, then it is more than likely to leave a gap somewhere in the strategy, which means certain opposing threats will find it easier to tear me apart.

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