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Love the way you destroy [Bulky Offence]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Dark Nikuman, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. Dark Nikuman

    Dark Nikuman

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    116

    Love the way you destroy


    Hello Smogon, I want introduce, I'm not an old battler and in the last month I builded some teams only for fun, I'm Italian and because of this my english isn't very good.


    After this short
    introduction here is the building phase:

    Show Hide
    The team is builded around Conkeldurr, the first slot is for him.
    [​IMG]
    First of all I need a solid switch in for his counters (Slowbro ,Reuniclus ,Gliscor ,Mew ,Skarmory, Tornadus , Dragonite, Breloom), a dark type would be the best choice, so I choose Tyranitar(Ice beam,Pursuit,Fire Blast and Stealth rock) and Dragonite to bait Gliscor with Ice Beam.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now I want to use a faster pursuiter and dragon resistor, because helps very much the team, so there are two pokemon that can do this, scizor and metagross, I choose Metagross for the better stats and the chance to hit very hard jirachi, and make the sweep of Conkeldurr and Dragonite easyer.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The team is very weak to the hazards so I decided to use Starmie, who gives me an other water and psychic resistor, Starmie is also good against rain teams.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    As final pokemon I decide to use a pokemon who can resume the momentum losed by the pursuit of metagross, an u-turner, Infernape, who can stop sdzor and lure some psychic types to help the sweep of conkeldurr.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    In this moment I made a lot of changes, make the team a weatherless, put virizion on conkeldurr,... but the better changes are: Breloom on conkeldurr(yes is better becuase he has spore, who helps a lot), I've tryed Jirachi as a wisher on metagross and it works very well, now I decided to try Lucario on Infernape, for the stronger power and the better priority.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    This is the latest version of the team, thanks for reading.




    In Depth:


    [​IMG]
    Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 232 HP / 216 SDef / 60 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Drain Punch
    - Bulk Up
    - Spore
    - Seed Bomb

    Breloom is similar to conkeldurr, but he has spore who helps very much against a lot of treaths, but he has a problem, lumberrynite, I haven't a good way to counter it, but usally I use spore to remove the berry and after I send jirachi on the outrage to paralise him(but if the opponent use fire punch, I had to send Dragonite to attire a outrage).
    Breloom is also good against the rain stall, who makes me some problem in the past versions.
    But the main reason because of I choose it, is because it has poison heal, and I can use him as a status absorber and the problem of gliscor doesn't exist.
    I'm uncertain on spore and on the spread, I think that spore is in status conflict with the 2 paraspammer Jirachi and Starmie.




    [​IMG]
    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide

    I think that the explaination of motagua is good, salamence is also the cleaner of the team.




    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 SAtk / 192 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Stealth Rock

    This set of tyranitar is really great in this team, I don't really need pursuit, so I use crunch.




    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Body Slam
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Wish

    The evs in spdef are to take one more point,I think that the set is standard, if I choose to use tyranitar Bander to trap and kill more better than now, I will use SR on u-turn.
    He is the main paraspammer, because my team is quite slow.
    I think that I can run also a physically defensive set, or a complete offensive set on he, for a lot of reasons, but I realise that this is the best one for this team, because I have a lot of pokemon without recovery move, and I have a spinner so, is easy to use wish+u-turn to heal an ally, especially against dragons like lati@s, who is one of the main switch in on breloom.




    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Rapid Spin
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump

    Starmie is the spinner, who is really necessary because I am a bit spikes and SR weak, this set forces a lot of switches and can easily destroy rain offensive teams.
    Starmie isn't defensive, because it has ridicoulos defense




    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Rock Gem
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - Swords Dance

    Terrakion is used to have a sandsweeper, and because in this team is better of lucario because it can setup on volcarona, who is a quite big treath.
    Terrakion also has the power to ohko gliscor , who is usally the main spore absorber of the enemy's team, and make the work of jirachi easyer.




    ETT:
    Show Hide
    Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 232 HP / 216 SDef / 60 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Drain Punch
    - Bulk Up
    - Spore
    - Seed Bomb

    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide

    Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 SAtk / 192 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Stealth Rock

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Body Slam
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Wish

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Rapid Spin
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump

    Terrakion @ Rock Gem
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - Swords Dance



    Treath list:

    Coming soon


  2. Dark Nikuman

    Dark Nikuman

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    ok I promise that I will explain better tomorrow :D, now I had to go.

    ah thanks for the attenction!
  3. lapras6666

    lapras6666

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    591
    i'm gonna test the team and see how it goes. I'll rate it soon!

    RATE:

    Changes:
    -Change Conkeldurr to Bulk Up Breloom or Swords Dance Virizion
    -Change Dragonite's set to the standard lum berry dragon dance
    -Change Metagross for Choice Band Scizor

    Reasonings:
    -Firstly, your team is pretty weak to the Scizor and Rotom core, so you need a pokemon that can deal with it, so I reccomend changing Conkeldurr for Breloom or Virizion, because both can deal with this core with relative ease.
    -Next, I don't get point of the "ice beam" lure when you can switch to starmie, and spin if you need to. For this reason, change it for the standard offensive Dragon Dance set.
    -Then, imo Metagross is way too slow for a scarfer, and you really need a good revenge killer. Plus, you can also pursuit with T-tar. So change it to Scizor, which can easily revenge kill threats. You're prob asking: but I already have dragonite to revenge kill... It can be a risk to send out Dragonite midgame, especially if Stealth Rock is on the field. Plus, Scizor gets U-turn.

    Good luck with the team!
  4. Dark Nikuman

    Dark Nikuman

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    ok I will consider the rate of lapras6666 :D
  5. Alice

    Alice The worst taste in music

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    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    853
    Sorry but CSjirachi kinda outclasses CSmeta in this metagame, especially since BW explosion sucks
  6. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

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    Ah good team pretty much everything has been said above but i will recommend that you get a diff scarfer, maybe a scarf terrakion over nape and swapping out gross for scizor. (This is kind of a rough rate due to the descripions being too short)
  7. Dark Nikuman

    Dark Nikuman

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    ok I made a lot of changes now I will update
  8. Zaimin

    Zaimin

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2012
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    Would put earthquake on Tyranitar to hit Ninetails really hard so that you counter sun teams. That also OHKO Heatran not on an air balloon.
  9. Dark Nikuman

    Dark Nikuman

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
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    I will try, thanks ^^
  10. Dragontongue195040

    Dragontongue195040

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    112
    a pretty standard team you have here.
    I'd say your biggest problem is DD gyarados. After just one DD, it outspeeds everything in your team, and after two, it can EHKO everything bar dragonite if your sandstorm isn't up. Because of this, I'd suggest you swap twave with Thunderbolt on Starmie. The paralyzing idea is quite interesting, but your team has nothing to hit bulky waters with. Gastrodon, quagsire, and jellicent are all really big threats to your team, so give lucario Crunch over ice punch and keep breloom on your team. You also really lack hard special hitters, so physical walls like skarmory, hetran, ferrothorn, and forretress can easily come in and sweep. That's why I'd suggest Magnezone over jirachi.
    Magnezone @ air balloon
    timid, magnet pull
    36 hp, 252 sp atk, 220 spe
    substitute
    thunderbolt
    charge beam
    hp fire
    this set will trap and kill pesky steel types that will utterly wall your team, and it's powerful electric STABS will eliminate any bulky waters that come your way.
    hope this helped. Good luck!
  11. NAWWAF12

    NAWWAF12

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2012
    Messages:
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    I have seen a fire and ground weakness in your pokémon. So to set things straight , I recommend having a bulkier ev spread on Dragonite with aqua tail instead of ice beam to kill gliscor too. GOOD LUCK FROM ME . 0:)

    EDIT : and an ice weakness too.
  12. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Messages:
    2,159
    Hi, got the request. I am skeptical of your claims that Dragonite is the MVP of this team, because it seems to me that this is the weak link if anything. Life Orb is not an effective item on Dragonite, end of story. Yes you have Roost and Rapid Spin support, but keep in mind that you will lose your Multi Scale the second you click Extremespeed. The reason Dragonite can avoid so many revenge kills is because Multi Scale can help it take a hit, and Extremespeed can help it score a 2HKO, without the Multi Scale buffer, Extremespeed is subpar. Dragonite is also the third best stallbreaker on this team at best, Breloom and Lucario so much more effective. As well, Dragonite is a subpar Pokemon for luring out Gliscor. The first response people use for Dragonite is not Gliscor, but their Steel-type. Any competent player will be sure to save Gliscor for Breloom or Jirachi. I would personally scrap Dragonite entirely since it doesn't bring anything that no other Pokemon on the team can.

    As for baiting in Gliscor, why not use Tyranitar? Toss Pursuit for Ice Beam, as Jirachi is more than capable of checking Reuniclus with parahax. I also have no clue why you're using these EVs, unless that Speed is outspeeding something significant, go with 252 HP / 64 SpA / 192 SpD so you can sponge Special hits better. As well, swap Stealth Rock for Crunch so you actually have a decently powerful STAB move. Stealth Rock can be moved onto Jirachi in place of U-turn. You also want to consider using Thunderbolt instead of Thunder Wave on Starmie, as you need T-bolt to hurt Jellicent, Tentacruel, and the like.

    Now lets discuss Dragonite's replacement. An alarm rang off in my head that this team is weak to physical Dragons. Dragonite, Haxorus, and Salamence are all capable of walking all over this team. Other Pokemon that may give you trouble include Virizion, Cloyster, and Landorus. One universal check to all of these Pokemon is Skarmory, who also provides your team with valuable Spikes support. Another Pokemon your team might struggle against is Volcarona, and adding Skarmory over Dragonite is only going to make this worse. One way to help with this is to swap SD Lucario for a SD Terrakion.

    GL
  13. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    190
    Hey there, got the request. New World Order pretty much mentioned the changes I thought on your team. I´m flattered that you used my T-tar set but it was designed to lure Scizor and take him out of stage early, something that your team does not struggle with. I second New World Order´s suggestion of using a Mixed Attacker Tyranitar to take Special hits better, as well as being able to lure and kill Gliscor with Ice Beam. Also with Jirachi providing Wish support and Tyranitar, I dont think Pursuit is necesary.
    Mixed Attacker Tyranitar (open)

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 SAtk / 192 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Stealth Rock

    Change your Starmie to an Standard Rapid Spin set. Investing on Starmie´s defenses sounds great but because of his lack of power, it can be easily removed by Pursuiters like Scizor & Tyranitar while being unable to get through Jellicent & Tentacruel. Thunderbolt is always the superior option because it hurts Jellicent & Tentacruel, Ice Beam to check Dragon-types and hurt Grass-types on the switch-in, and Hydro Pump should be the STAB move on this set, because without the Life Orb, Surf fails to 2HKO Scizor.
    Standard Rapid Spin Starmie (open)

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Rapid Spin
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump

    Replace Lucario for a Sub SD Terrakion as your main sweeper. If you plan to use Sand, you need a sweper that can abuse it. Terrakion gets its Sp.Def boosted by Sand and under a Substitute, he can proceed to either set-up avoiding status from slower pokemons or straight attack its checks. The beauty of this set relies on its item: Rock Gem. After an SD, Terrakion is able to OHKO its common checks like Gliscor and Slowbro with Stone Edge when Rock Gem is activated.
    Sub SD Terrakion (open)

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Rock Gem
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - Swords Dance

    New World Order has a point about physical Dragons going ham on this team if they get a chance to set-up. However I would like to provide a more offensively oriented solution that could solve your issues with +1 Dragonite, Haxorus & Hydreigon. A Scarf Moxie Salamence can replace Dragonite, as not only it revenge kills these threats including Volcarona. The beauty of this pokemon is his ability to gain boosts for every kill it does sweeping entirely the foe´s team quickly without wasting a turn on setting-up. Scarf Salamence can clean up what Terrakion failed to sweep and with Rapid Spin & Wish support, he fits well your team.
    Scarf Moxie Salamence (open)

    [​IMG]
    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw / Rock Slide

    Good luck and I hope my rate helped you out.
  14. Dark Nikuman

    Dark Nikuman

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    thanks to new world order and motagua!
    I like very much the changes!

    I have some questions, Tyranitar is better with pursuit, because can trapkill lati@s ond other psychic types like espeon who are faster of breloom and terrakion.
    Isn't virizion better in this team? and make jirachi whit the set of shakeitup?

    wow is really difficult to choice, what is better skarm or salamence on dragonite?

    I use salamence to have a good revenge killer and because I like use it as a cleaner.

    now I haven't priority, can I run a priority user on breloom?
  15. Myzozoa

    Myzozoa Throw-up on the internet, or get off on TV
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Nitpicks:

    Terrakion's ev spread should be 4 defense/252 attack/252 speed

    Starmie should probably use a life orb to ensure 2hko's on things like tentacruel, Deoxys-D, and Jellicient.


    I received your message and decided to take a look, that was a couple of days ago and the descriptions were incomplete and I decided I'd check back later to see if it was worth the time, the original team posted was very flawed if I recall accurately.

    I checked again and the team would seem to be significantly improved at first glance. However it would seem that many of the changes to your team have caused it to become a really awkward 'balanced' team that cannot hope to out-survive a well built offensive team or breakdown a well constructed stall team.

    I'm going to start by saying that Conkeldurr is very good on your team, and that the decision to remove it was very shortsighted, Breloom is rather marginal on your team to be perfectly honest. Your team has a significant weakness to the typical volt-turn strategy. Scizor and Rotom-W can just take turns using u-turn and volt switch and there is little that you can do prevent this. Infact, I would postulate that Rotom-W+CB Scizor+Terrakion can beat your team all by itself with minimal prediction. I have a few changes to address this.

    So I would start by suggesting Conkeldurr over Breloom, just because Breloom is not supported by your current team and it's bad. Breloom is a reactive pokemon that needs the support of other more threatening pokemon that allow it to get a chance to set-up, and even then it is relatively harmless.

    The second change has to do with Jirachi, why is Jirachi on this team? I honestly can't see why the team would want Jirachi. You have Scarf Salamence and Terrakion, hardly slow or in need of Paralysis support. Conkeldurr may enjoy paralysis support, but it has mach punch rendering speed semi-meaningless.

    Jirachi is one of those pokemon that many 'experienced' battlers seem to have decided is appropriate to just attach to a team as 'glue.' 'Glue' pokemon promise to provide a defensive supportive backbone to teams, they have few weaknesses and key resists. The quintessential example is Celebi, water and fighting resists and many support moves. Jirachi is also classic for this.

    The problem with these glue pokemon is that they don't provide any real offensive presence to your team, and you can't afford to have something like Sub-Disable Gengar or SD Lucario set-up on your Jirachi. My suggestion for a Jirachi replacement is CB scizor, which will allow you to kill any Reuniclus that switch into your Terrakion (watch out for Hidden Power Fire), while providing another source of priority and the convenience of Steel typing.

    The last thing that I have to say is that I feel as if you don't need both Terrakion and Salamence. That Terrakion set will do a very good job of luring Gliscor, but it cannot kill it and Gliscor will be left using protect to heal off damage, useless. For this reason I would recommend a more consistent 'counter' to defensive Gliscor, Gengar (Substitute, Will-o-wisp, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast. with leftovers). Using Gengar over Terrakion will provide you with some better resistances and the opportunity to lure and burn things that come in to try and kill Gengar. If you do decide to change Terrakion to Gengar, then you should in turn change Salamence to Dragon Dance Lum Berry Dragonite with extreme speed. The combination of CB Scizor, Conkeldurr, and Dragonite comes out to 3 priority moves which should be enough to revenge kill the entire OU tier without worry.


    It is up to you to read each person's suggestions and then take bits and pieces as you feel are appropriate from each comment. I suggest trying out many different variations on the combinations suggested to you and keep what works and discard what doesn't.
  16. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Fuck you, pay me
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
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    Okay, this seems good enough for a rate now.

    You don't have something to deal with Terrakion: for example, the Terrakion set you're using yourself outright sweeps you. Close Combat wrecks Breloom, Tyranitar, Jirachi, and Terrakion, while Stone Edge takes down Salamence and Starmie. Most Terrrakions are Choiced, and Choice Band variants can be troublesome, but Salamence + Jirachi can deal with it if you predict perfectly, but that isn't really reliable.
    Landorus is another troublesome physical sweeper: Earthquake in the sand 2HKOes Breloom, while Stone Edge KOes Salamence. The rest of your team are all KOed by Earthquake. Revenge killing it is a possibily, but a well played Scarf Landorus gives you trouble, or worse, a Rock Polish/Sub(SD) Landorus.
    Dragon Dance Gyarados is kind of a big deal, setting up on Tyranitar or Jirachi and after a Dragon Dance outspeeds your whole team bar Salamence. Salamence does 74 - 87% to 4 / 0 Gyarados, and since most invest in bulk you'll likely won't KO. Starmie isn't exactly a good counter since +1 LO Stone Edge does 99% minimum. Leftovers Bounce KOes as well.

    You should a try a Slowbro on your team, either over Jirachi or Starmie. Several of the things Jirachi counters (Latios, Reuniclus) are countered by Tyranitar as well (though consider Chople Berry if you do) so he's not really needed. Starmie can also be replaced if you want to as it shares the typing with Slowbro, and Rapid Spinning isn't really needed if you have Wish support from Jirachi to heal up Salamence.
    Onto Slowbro, it beats all the aforementioned Pokemon reliably. Choice Band Terrakion doesn't even 2HKO it with Stone Edge, +2 LO Earthquake in the sand from Landorus doesn't even KO, and +1 Adamant LO Stone Edge from Gyarados doesn't even 2HKO. The greatest thing about Slowbro is that it's not crippled after stopping a Terrakion or Landorus sweep, thanks to Regenerator healing it. The exact set is:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Slowbro @ Leftovers | Regenerator
    Bold | 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Scald / Psychic / Thunder Wave / Slack Off


    Good luck with the team.

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