Low Level Game Challenge

[Kainazoo]

Without an answer on the challenge thread, I've taken the liberty to start my own thread.

What is the point of a Low Level Game?
The point of this challenge is to find teams that can efficently defeat every major trainer in a Pokemon game, so efficently that the team is at the lowest possible level. Every opponent will be researched, and there is quite a lot of experimenting. Because trainers have different types, you will use different pokemons. There isn't one team you use throughout the game.

What are the rules!
#1 : During major battles, you must aim at having the lowest level team starting the battle.
The level of the team is the level of the highest level pokemon.
Why? Because it's easy to solo the Elite 4 with a level 65 Pokemon and five magikarps. It's much harder to win with six level 40 pokemon.
If you're forced to carry a specific mon (HM Slave, Legendary pokemon after catching it), it doesn't count towards your level if you don't use it during battles.
Major battles are storyline battles, this includes rivals, gyms, villain leaders, elite 4, postgame bosses, etc..

#2 : No items may be used during battles.
Held items are of course okay.

#3 : Set mode

#4 : The only pokemon you can use are the ones you catch, breed, or are given within the game.

Options :
Easier :
Switch mode
?

Harder :
Species clause
Breeding is banned
Legendary Pokemon are banned


You can actually compare runs in this format. Because you have a defined metric to compare players, two different players playing the same Pokemon game should aim at having the lowest level team for every battle. Thus, a record for every major battle of every game can be made.

I will make a Let's Play of my first run. Don't post yet.

 

[Kainazoo]

Hall of Fame

This post will track every record made on Pokemon games.

Pokemon Red/Blue

R/B

Rival 1 : Level 5
Rival (Pidgey) : Level 3
Brock
Rival (Nugget Bridge)
Misty
Rival (Boat)
Lt Surge
Rival (Tower)
Giovanni (Celadon)
Erika
Fighting Dojo
Rival (Sylph)
Giovanni (Sylph)
Sabrina
Koga
Blaine
Giovanni (Badge)
Rival (8 badges)
Lorelei
Bruno
Agatha
Lance
Rival (Champion)

Pokemon Black/White

B/W

Bianca 1 : Level 5
Cheren 1 : Level 5
N 1 : Level 2
Bianca 2 : Level 2
Cheren 2 : Level 2
Cilan/Chili/Cress
Cheren 3
N 2
Lenora
Burgh
Bianca 3
Cheren 4
N 3
Elesa
Cheren 5
Clay
Bianca 4
N 4
Skyla
Cheren 6
Brycen
Bianca 5
Drayden/Iris
Cheren 7
Shauntal
Grimsley
Caitlyn
Marshall
All Elite 4
N (Final)
Ghetsis

Bianca (Postgame)
Cheren (Postgame)
Cynthia
Morimoto
Shauntal Rematch
Grimsley Rematch
Caitlyn Rematch
Marshall Rematch
Alder

 

[Kainazoo]

Current Challenges
Kainazoo : Pokemon White (vs Cilan)
LightningLord2 : Pokemon Blue (vs Brock)

Completed Challenges
None

Halted Challenges
None

Abandoned Challenges
None

 

[Kainazoo]

And now for my run!

I've decided on playing Pokemon White. I wanted a recent gen game so that I can use TMs freely, and White seemed good because of its specific regional dex.

I picked up Oshawott, fearing I would need a water mon soon (the Unova dex is really lacking water mons)

Starting the game, two easiest low level fights ever :

Bianca 1 : Level 5 (used Oshawott)
Cheren 1 : Level 5 (used Oshawott)
No comment.

Picking up the Pokedex and balls, and I can really start the game. I start up by catching six Lillipups and one Patrat, and putting Lv6 Oshawott in the box. I might need it against a later Bianca fight, and by default I want to keep all unique pokemon at the lowest level possible.

Given that having a steady supply of Balls is everything, I think all my money will go on Pokeballs.

N 1 : Level 2 (used six Lillipup)
The fight is really easy, there is only one level 7 Purrloin. The first two Lillipups were used as cannon fodder with Leer, and the third and fourth defeated N. I only used 4 mons here.
Using six times the same mon might seem cheap, but I don't really have a choice in the beginning of the game. Later on, I'll have more material to work with.

The winning Lillipup is now retired, because he's overleveled. I will use him for the non-main fights, and for capturing. He can solo everything at level 10.

I catch Purrloin here, but he's level 4. He carries Growl though, which is great for this challenge.

Bianca 2 : Level 2 (used five Lillipup and one Patrat)
I actually came in with five pokemon, one Lillipup fainted against a wild pokemon (level 2 mon can't really run away from fights)
Bianca is fair. She has a Lv6 Lillipup which attacks most of the time. I used one Lillipup (Leer), one Patrat (Tackle) to soften him up, and the second Lillipup defeated him.
She then uses Tepig, which is now facing a Lv5 Lillipup (experience!) I switch out to a Lv2 who is 2hkoed by Ember, and I only have two Lillipups left. I use the lv2 one to Leer, and the Lv5 one to finish the job.

Cheren 2 : Level 2 (used six Lillipups) - 10 resets
Okay, I really stretched the Level 2 mons here.
Cheren has a Lv8 Snivy and a Lv8 Purrloin. The problem is that he leads with Snivy, which is pretty bulky and equipped with an Oran Berry.
Snivy can 2HKO everyone, and OHKO if he lands two Leers. After one Leer, his Vine Whip has about 20% chance of one shotting you and 80% chance of leaving you with 1 HP
I can 4HKO Snivy after four Leers.
So the game is to Leer with the first Lillipups and hope that Snivy loses time with his own Leers.
After landing four Leers (hopefully with two Lillipups), I start attacking. Snivy will use his Oran Berry, and I will pick it up with Pick Up.
It's then a race to the finish with attacks on both sides.
Purrloin is no problem if you have two pokemon (one lv2 and one with exp), switch the lv2 in, Leer a bit, and finish off with the big one.

And that's it for the first fights in the game! I hope it's entertaining. I will try Cilan at lv5 but I probably will fail miserably.

 

[lucariomaster2]

This sounds fun! I might try it myself - I've always enjoyed sweeping Gym Leaders with an underleveled Pokemon.

Also, question: What happens if a Pokemon gains XP during a battle? Is the team level calculated before the battle, or after?

 

[LightningLord2]

What's the level record here - the highest level at the start of the battle or the highest you ended the battle with?

EDIT: Also thinking I wanna try Pokémon Blue this way. You can write Level 5 for the Rival 1 already as you can't challenge him at any other level.

 

[LightningLord2]

Gonna hold my run into this post:

Rival 1: Level 5

Not much to say here. Picked Charmander so my rival gets the two crappy mons in his final team, as Gyarados could hit really hard.

Rival 2: Level 3

I don't think you can reliably win with just Level 2 Rattatas, so I went up to Level 3 to increase the pool of available mons. I had two Caterpies, three Rattatas, and a Nidoran-Female. Nidoran F led the battle and growled the Pidgey to -6, then I switched into a Caterpie to hit it a few times until it falls so Rattata can come in safely. After a Tail Whip, I could beat it, bringing that Rattata and Nidoran-F to Level 4. Squirtle was surprisingly easy - the other Caterpie String Shot it twice, letting my mons outspeed it. A level 3 Rattata Tail Whipped it a few times, leaving Squirtle easy pickings for my remaining mons.

Brock: Level 3

Thanks to Gen 1's random AI, this is actually possible, although very luck-reliant and lengthy. I had Nidoran-F, Weedle, Caterpie, two Rattatas and Pikachu. Weedle and Pikachu weakened Geodude's stats so that my others could kill it death of a thousand cuts style. Thanks to Gen 1 wierdness, Weedle can't use Poison Sting for status. Onix was beaten by a combination of Rattata's Tail Whip, Nidoran-F's Growl, Caterpie's string shot and an insane amount of resets and attacks. Onix very often uses Bide, so that kinda helps.

 

[Kainazoo]

I put your records in the initial post. I also put the main fights in Blue (including the fighting dojo), if you find any more do tell. Congrats on Rival 2!

About the exact definition, it's the level at the beginning of the fight. The way I see it :
-If you choose the level after the fight, you will end up with a team made of five mid-level mons and one low level, and the point of the fight will be to make sure only the low level mon gains the exp. So I don't find that entertaining.
For example, on the Cheren fight, I could have come in with five lv5 mons and one lv2, because the experience provided by the fight would make the lv2 mon level up anyway.
-If you choose the level before the fight, you can abuse in-battle level ups, but it's mostly in the early game. And the preparation is simpler, you just pick a level and make a team at that level.

I played a little bit myself, got first badge. I'll post tomorrow when I get a few more fights in

 

[LightningLord2]

I noticed how it's easier to initiate low-level battles in Gen5&6 - you can abuse the C-Gear/PSS to make back and forth trades to switch out your team with your boxed mons.

In general, things will be a lot easier with Sturdy + Prankster.

 

[noobcubed]

I actually reckon this would be easier in the earlier games; while you may have fewer tools to help you overcome the level disadvantage, the enemy Pokemon's movesets are terrible and their AI is highly exploitable (particularly in Gen I, where a trained Pokemon will always use a super-effective move when it can, even if it's a status move that does no damage).

 

[LightningLord2]

I actually reckon this would be easier in the earlier games; while you may have fewer tools to help you overcome the level disadvantage, the enemy Pokemon's movesets are terrible and their AI is highly exploitable (particularly in Gen I, where a trained Pokemon will always use a super-effective move when it can, even if it's a status move that does no damage).

Only certain boss trainers will keep using the status move for thinking it's SE - most other trainers use moves completely at random. I played enough to know that I can't always make the AI use the wrong move.

 

[LightningLord2]

Updating for Brock

 

[Zowayix]

Regarding Gen I's AI, this article might come in handy: http://wiki.pokemonspeedruns.com/index.php/Pokémon_Red/Blue/Yellow_Trainer_AI


@OP: Looks like Youtube user MoogleBoss has already done a variant of this challenge for each of the main series games plus one or two ROM hacks: https://www.youtube.com/user/MoogleBoss/playlists

They're "No Exp" runs rather than Low Level runs, but have basically the same premise in that the goal is to beat the game while the game is hacked to not give any experience after any battle. Thus everything is stuck at the same level where you catch it in the wild or receive it, and you need to come up with unique strategies to beat opponents while severely underleveled.

As the current Hall of Fame list is a little sparse, it should be possible to fill it with all the numbers from these playthroughs as provisional records at least. Some of them can definitely be beaten though, as MoogleBoss's goal wasn't to reach the lowest level possible.