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Lucario (BW2 Revamp) (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by LucaroarkZ, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>One of the most threatening sweepers in DPP OU, Lucario has returned to the BW OU battlefield with some new toys. BW increased ExtremeSpeed's priority to +2, which means Mach Punch Infernape, among other such Pokemon, can no longer check it. In addition, the Dream World gave Lucario an ability it can actually make good use of: Justified. With this ability, Lucario gains an Attack boost upon getting hit by any Dark-type attack, which it can easily switch into thanks to its 4x resistance to Dark. Lucario also has a rare 4x resistance to Stealth Rock, which makes it difficult to wear it down with entry hazards. Its Steel typing brings it an immunity to Toxic; it therefore doesn't have to worry about poison damage prematurely ending its sweeps. However, there are many Pokemon capable of beating Lucario, such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr. Lucario also has four moveslot syndrome, which prevents it from covering every single relevant threat. Despite its flaws, however, Lucario is a deadly sweeper that will destroy any team not prepared for it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: ExtremeSpeed
    move 4: Ice Punch / Crunch / Bullet Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Justified / Inner Focus
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Lucario's flagship set in DPP OU makes a return in BW2, and is arguably even better than it used to be, as ExtremeSpeed lets it take on Pokemon such as Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T, as well as Technician Breloom. As soon as Lucario sets up a Swords Dance boost, not many Pokemon will be able to take its attacks. Even Skarmory has a chance to be OHKOed by a +2 Close Combat after Stealth Rock, which is a testament to how powerful a boosted Lucario is. Although its base 90 Speed might seem like a letdown at first, Lucario gets ExtremeSpeed to circumvent that problem and allow it to take on Choice Scarf users such as Rotom-W, as well as priority users such as Breloom.</p>

    <p>Lucario's fourth move should depend on what its team most needs covered. If Gliscor and Landorus-T threaten the team, Ice Punch is the preferred option; however, if you need Lucario to handle Jellicent, Reuniclus, and Slowbro, use Crunch instead. If none of these Pokemon concern you, Bullet Punch is a solid option that allows Lucario to get past Gengar, Terrakion, and Choice Scarf Tyranitar.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Lucario should always run as much Attack and Speed as possible. Lucario's defenses are garbage, so investing in them will not get you anywhere. A Jolly nature allows Lucario to outspeed opposing Swords Dance Lucario who opt for an Adamant nature. In addition to this, Jolly Lucario also outspeeds neutral-natured Celebi, Gliscor, Hydreigon, and Jirachi, all of which are capable of taking a boosted ExtremeSpeed. However, a Jolly nature is not that useful outside of these threats because most Pokemon who use Speed-boosting natures to outspeed Lucario will get nailed by ExtremeSpeed; the increase in power is generally more useful.</p>

    <p>Hi Jump Kick is worth considering over Close Combat due to its ability to deal more damage to certain physical walls, such as Hippowdon and Skarmory. With Hi Jump Kick, Lucario has a decent chance to OHKO Hippowdon at +2 after one layer of Spikes, and will always OHKO Skarmory after Stealth Rock. However, its 90% accuracy makes it less appealing, especially considering Lucario loses 50% of its health if it misses. In addition to this, Pokemon such as Blissey, Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Politoed might be seen using Protect, which makes Hi Jump Kick even more risky to use. Using Hi Jump Kick means Lucario no longer suffers from defense drops, but the defense drops due to using Close Combat do notreally matter because Lucario isn't surviving any non-resisted hit regardless.</p>

    <p>Lucario's ability choice comes down to the user's preference. Justified is generally more useful as this allows it to gain an additional Attack boost upon switching in on Dark-type attacks. In addition, although there are few users of Dark-type attacks in OU, the only common user of flinching moves in OU, Jirachi, cannot reliably beat Justified Lucario. However, Inner Focus is still worth considering because this gives Lucario a better chance against Jirachi.</p>

    <p>As Lucario has poor defenses, the best way for it to set up is to use teammates that attract Crunch and Pursuit, such as Latios, Latias, and Gengar. If Lucario isn't using Bullet Punch, enemy Gengar are solid checks that can OHKO Lucario with Focus Blast; Choice Scarf Tyranitar can in turn trap Gengar with Pursuit. Conkeldurr will also prove to be difficult for Lucario to handle, as it can take even +3 ExtremeSpeed and OHKO with Mach Punch. Slowbro is a good teammate to handle Conkeldurr as it can take care of Conkeldurr with STAB Psychic. As Slowbro is also slower than Conkeldurr, Payback will only hit it for a low 50 Base Power. Wallbreakers such as Choice Band Dragonite, Choice Band Terrakion, and mixed Salamence can wear down physical walls such as Slowbro and Hippowdon, which makes it easier for Lucario to sweep. Spikes support from the likes of Deoxys-D can also help Lucario muscle through physical tanks, including the aforementioned Slowbro and Hippowdon.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With good offensive stats and a good movepool, Lucario has quite a few more options. Stone Edge can be used on the Swords Dance set in order to hit Gyarados, while still hitting Pokemon such as Dragonite hard. As Lucario's Special Attack stat isactually higher than its Attack stat, a Nasty Plot set might seem appealing at first glance. However, too many faster Pokemon—including Alakazam, Starmie, and Tornadus-T—resist Vacuum Wave, so it is not as effective as the Swords Dance set is. An Agility set might seem appealing as it can beat typical revenge killers such as Terrakion and Choice Scarf Tyranitar, but it is very weak and Breloom can easily revenge kill it with Mach Punch. Calm Mind boosts Lucario's Special Defense while also raising its Special Attack, but Lucario's frailty makes this a pointless endeavor and Keldeo does Calm Mind better anyway.</p>

    <p>Lucario can use Choice sets to decent effect, particularly Choice Specs. However, the likes of Latios, Scizor, and Terrakion do these better. Lucario can make use of an Air Balloon to set up on Pokemon such as Landorus Choice-locked into Earthquake, but it will miss the extra damage output from Life Orb, making its damage output noticeably lower against Pokemon such as Skarmory. Lucario has another ability, Steadfast, which boosts its Speed by one stage when it is flinched. However, because flinching moves are almost always paired up with paralysis, Steadfast is not a good choice.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Physically defensive Unaware Quagsire is one of the few physical walls that can take on Lucario and live to tell the tale. It cannot reliably switch in on Close Combat, but thanks to Unaware, it ignores Lucario's stat boosts, and can easily take Close Combat and retaliate with Earthquake. Hippowdon too can sponge +2 Close Combat and OHKO Lucario with Earthquake, but it will be severely weakened afterwards, and will fall to +3 Close Combat. Gliscor is capable of taking anything but Ice Punch, and can also OHKO Lucario with Earthquake; faster variants of Gliscor can check even Ice Punch Lucario. Conkeldurr can take even +3 ExtremeSpeed and OHKO Lucario with Mach Punch. Sableye, although uncommon, can burn Lucario with Prankster Will-O-Wisp before Crunch does massive damage to it, which makes Lucario much easier to deal with.</p>

    <p>There are other Pokemon that can check Lucario, depending on which moves it uses. In particular, Pokemon with Intimidate, such as Salamence, Landorus-T, and Gyarados, can come in on Lucario as it uses Swords Dance, take +1 ExtremeSpeed, and OHKO with the appropriate move. However, if Lucario carries Ice Punch, Salamence and Landorus-T must be careful of switching in. Jellicent and Slowbro can both comfortably wall and force out Lucario that lack Crunch, while Reuniclus can OHKO it with Focus Blast. Gengar can check Lucario that lack Bullet Punch and OHKO it with Focus Blast.</p>

    <p>If all else fails, revenge killing Lucario is always an option. Celebi and Jirachi only need 176 Speed EVs to outspeed neutral-natured Lucario, and can both take a boosted ExtremeSpeed and OHKO Lucario with a super effective attack. Choice Scarf users such as Heatran, Terrakion, and Tyranitar also outspeed Lucario, and can take it on due to their resistance to ExtremeSpeed, though the latter two must look out for Bullet Punch.</p>
  2. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Looks good, just a couple of small nitpicks

    -Prolly mention Choice items in OO. They previously had sets, I tested stuff like Specs personally, and while they are not good enough to get a set of there own, I would still like them to get an OO mention.

    Lucario can just Close Combat the switch and basically own you. Obviously this depends on what EV spread you run, but a LO Adamant Lucario can max out at around 85% on Quagsires which is really, really massive, and it can prolly justify Swords Dancing anyway, if a layer of Spikes and / or SR was up. Prolly need to rework that counter.

    Nitpicking but I personally would remove the Drain Punch part. I know the principal, that is tank the Extreme Speed and heal, but the principal applies both ways, the Lucario user can predict a Drain Punch and smoke you with Close Combat. Just mention Mach Punch and leave it at that IMO

    Consider mentioning pokemon like CB Dragonite, CB (or SD) Terrakion (especially), Moxie MixMence, etc since all of the above cripple the physical walls for Lucario to sweep. Its a stratigy I have seen (and used) to great degrees of success so I just personally would like to see mentions of powerful physical hitters (or wallbreakers I guess) as partners to SD Lucario.

    Not approving till SDS weighs in
  3. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    For Quagsire, I probably should have specified physically defensive Quagsire, although even that can be worn down by repeated SR + Spikes switch-ins. Specially defensive Quagsire is 2HKOed by Close Combat after SR + Spikes if I did the calc right (I think it's at least 2 layers of Spikes?), so that's not working too well. I'll specify that Quagsire should ideally be physically defensive to switch in on Lucario. I also agree with the Conkeldurr part. I added in Drain Punch because some Conkeldurr users may predict ExtremeSpeed, but I would just go for Mach Punch as I don't want to risk taking a Close Combat. So, yeah. Removing Drain Punch, and adding in the wallbreakers as teammates (they really are good teammates).
  4. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    O.k, just make sure you consider Quagsire a check (or that it needs to switch in on anything not called Close Combat), as according to my calculations, it still gets 2KOed on the switch in after SR.

    Cheers
  5. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    +2 HJK vs 252/252+ Hippowdon: 82.14% - 96.67%
    +2 CC vs 252/252+ Hippowdon: 75.71% - 89.29%

    Now has a decent chance of OHKOing Hippo after Spikes, while before, you were really pushing it.

    +2 HJK vs 252/232+ Skarmory: 92.51% - 108.98%
    +2 CC vs 252/232+ Skarmory: 85.33% - 100.60%

    Now a guaranteed OHKO after SR, instead of before, where it was around 50/50

    +2 HJK vs 252/0 Dragonite: 72.80% - 85.75%
    +2 CC vs 252/0 Dragonite: 67.10% - 79.27%

    A better looking OHKO on that Dragonite with SR.

    +1 HJK vs 56/0 Gyarados: 70.29% - 82.57%
    +1 CC vs 56/0 Gyarados: 64.57% - 76.29%

    Gyarados is looking a lot less safe against HJK than it is against Close Combat.

    Obviously, Close Combat is still by far and away the better option, however, that 10 extra Base Power provided by Hi Jump Kick can be very precious, as illustrated above. If we do end up getting an Agility set, it will become even more apparent for its ability to 2HKO things that otherwise would have walled you.
  6. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    What shrang said. HJK provides an important power boost, but stress that the -10% accuracy is a "big deal".

    I still think Agility is worthwhile, especially with hazard support (though spinning is really easy atm so that's kinda pushing it).

    Bigger mention of Inner Focus. Jirachi is a grade a+ asshole, and it doesn't run Fire Punch a lot due to the rain. On top of that, with CC lowering your defenses it doesn't really take that many flinches to take Lucario down. Justified is questionable at best anyway as Dark attacks are rather rare. Luke is never getting hit by Pursuit for obvious reasons, so the only real chance is getting into a Crunch. Setting up on Tyranitar is questionable anyway, since the only one you can really set up on is Choice Band. Scarf is going to come back in and revenge you, and non-choice sets will pack Fire Blast or Superpower to wreck you, and many times it's more astute to sacrifice Tyranitar than to let Lucario set up. Justified is clearly better on Agility, though, as a +1 boost on Agility can be a big deal.

    I can't really go into much detail on it right now, but I'd like some discussion about Agility.
  7. YTP

    YTP

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    How about a Sub+3 Attack set? I think it could at least be mentioned somewhere in OO. Lucario is extremely vulnerable to being revenge killed \ so setting up a sub would be beneficial there as well as blocking Landorus-T intimidate. It's more of a wall breaker than a Late Game sweeper (Swords Dance)
  8. Ricky Horror

    Ricky Horror

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    I've used a Suicide lead, which does waste it early-game, but Lucario is frail and doesn't last as much as it takes you to set up a SD/NP to sweep with. Since it suffer from 4MS this allows it pick up that extra move.

    Lucario@Focus Sash
    Ability:Justified
    Nature: Adamant
    4 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe

    1.Close Combat
    2.ExtremeSpeed
    3.Ice Punch
    4.Crunch
  9. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    I'm starting to see the benefits of HJK, so I'll go ahead and slash it. I'd still like to see more opinions on Agility, though, so I want to see discussion on Agility before I add it in. You make a good point, but I think Technician Breloom running around in the current meta hurts it a little bit. However, I too want discussion on Agility.

    As for Justified vs. Inner Focus, I've just found Inner Focus to be useless, though I see why some people would want it (Jirachi). I just haven't wanted it because I don't even try setting up on SpDef Jirachi in the first place and I've found ScarfRachi to be uncommon in OU anyway. But since you want a mention of Inner Focus beyond OO, for now I'll slash both abilities on SD and explain the benefits of both in AC.

    OO at best, if even. I remember the time in C&C where there was a huge lack of originality and people were uploading a bunch of Substitute sets (it wasn't that long ago actually). Lucario isn't that good of a user of Substitute, especially since Substitute discourages use of Life Orb. Without a Life Orb, 110 base Attack just doesn't cut it. Most of Lucario's revenge killers do not attempt to directly switch in on it anyway, as they may find themselves taking a Close Combat instead. In fact, in many cases I have found people keeping things like Heatran in on Lucario, because it's just more useful to sacrifice Heatran than to let Lucario set up. So, Lucario does not force as many switches as, say, Alakazam or Gengar.
  10. EonX

    EonX Wiseman Eon
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    I used Agility Lucario quite a bit through BW1 and there were a couple of things I noticed with it. First, and foremost, it wants HP Ice to dump Gliscor who could just Protect to ensure survival of Ice Punch. Max Speed was also a little unnecessary as 188 EVs gets it in front of Scarf Latios after a boost. (the fastest common Scarfer in BW1) Those remaining 68 EVs were put in Special Attack so Sub+DD Dragonite and any variant more offensive than that would get OHKOed after SR by HP Ice. In BW2, Ice Punch does have a bit more merit as Lucario now needs it to get past Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T. (needs SR for both) however, HP Ice lets it get past a new threat in Landorus-T. Sure, it'll probably cut your sweep short by dropping your Attack, but if you have a Wish user, HP Ice cuts down Lando-T and then you can heal up Lucario and go again. If Agility Lucario does get a set in BW2, I would slash HP Ice with Ice Punch. Surprisingly, you don't really lose that many KOs that Ice Punch gets outside of the Therians. Crunch is the stronger move on Lati@s anyway while CC destroys Hydreigon. Haxorus gets OHKOed by CC after Rocks. Only other OHKOs you lose by running HP Ice over Ice Punch are on Parashuffler Dragonite and Rain Tank Dragonite (who still has a slight chance to be OHKOed by HP Ice)

    The EV spread I used in BW1 looked like this: 252 Atk / 68 SAtk / 188 Spe Naughty. 220 Speed EVs are needed to outrun Scarf Starmie if that's important. Note that Agility Lucario will appreciate wallbreakers such as CB Terrakion and Specs Latios even more than the SD set. Also, Latios and Dragonite work exceptionally well since they can switch into Mach Punch from Techniloom and Conkeldurr.
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    OK, I had some discussion with most of the QC members and our overall decision is to keep Agility set off of site for now. If somebody later can present solid evidence for using it over SD then we'll add it then. Atm it seems to miss out on the power that is provided by SD, missing out on handful of KOs even with SR support. 110 Atk isn't getting Lucario far, even with a super-effective coverage hit or a neutral STAB hit. The coverage is nice, but SD can outmuscle defensive mons and pick off Pokemon with strong priority - the coverage isn't THAT necessary. Priority is always nice for revenge-killing stuff, too. We just don't see much reason to run Agility Lucario instead of SD Lucario.
  12. PK Gaming

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    QC APPROVED (1/3)

    Maybe mention that it got a little better in BW2 since it OHKOes the majority of the prominent BW2 threats after an SD.
  13. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    Pretty much everything was covered.

    QC Approved (2/3)
  14. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Yeah, I'll mention how Lucario can handle the new BW2 threats with a +2 ExtremeSpeed in the write-up.

    Thanks for the stamps! One more to go.
  15. Pocket

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    Comprehensive skelly, great job, Lucaroarkz!

    I want to see the following revisions before this gets the final stamp:

    ~ Remove the HJK slash and drop it to AC mention: As SDS and shrang have said, Close Combat is far superior to HJK for consistency and power (Lucario doesn't really mind the defense drops, since it's not taking any non-resist hits anyways). In contrast that 90% accuracy and the high frequency of Protect on defensive mons like Politoed, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Blissey, etc would make sweeping with HJK a risky ordeal. Lucario doesn't really need that extra power anyways - HJK would be more useful on its Agility set, not so much on the SD set.

    ~ Mention Spikes support - I know any Pokemon would appreciate hazards support, but this is particularly true for Lucario who can overcome most grounded physical tanks with only a few residual damage.

    ~ For AC Jolly Nature, mention that it's also useful to outrun Hydreigon, Gliscor, Celebi, and Jirachi with neutral Speed nature, not solely for other Adamant Lucario. All of these mons have enough defenses to shrug off a +2 ExtremeSpeed.

    ~ OO needs to mention its CSpecs set.

    ~ Checks and Counters: Mention Celebi and Jirachi with 280+ Speed and super-effective moves as decent checks, since they have that solid base 100 defensive stats.

    Good work, LucaroarkZ :)
  16. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Alright, changes made. I already had Choice Specs mentioned in OO though.
  17. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    OK, just move any HJK explanation in Set Comments to AC.

    QC Approved (3/3)
  18. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Lol, I missed that there. I'll get this written up ASAP.
  19. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    Looks like its written up. I'll do a amateur gp check.

    remove

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    comment

    copyediting (open)


    [Overview]

    <p>As one of the most threatening sweepers in DPP OU, Lucario has returned to the OU battlefield with some new toys. Black and White increased ExtremeSpeed's priority to +2, meaning Mach Punch Infernape, a decent check to Lucario in DPP, can no longer check it. In addition to this, the Dream World gave Lucario an ability it can actually make good use of: Justified. With this ability, Lucario gains an Attack boost upon getting hit by any Dark-type attack, moves it can easily switch into thanks to its 4x resistance to the Dark type. In addition to a 4x resistance to Dark-type attacks, Lucario also has a very rare 4x resistance to Stealth Rock, meaning it is difficult to wear it down with entry hazards. Its Steel typing brings it an immunity to Toxic, meaning it doesn't have to worry about poison damage prematurely ending its sweeps. However, there are many Pokemon capable of beating Lucario, such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr. Lucario also has four moveslot syndrome, preventing it from covering every single relevant threat. Despite its flaws, however, Lucario is a very deadly sweeper that will destroy any team not prepared for it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: ExtremeSpeed
    move 4: Ice Punch / Crunch / Bullet Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Justified / Inner Focus
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Lucario's flagship set in DPP OU makes a return in BW2, and is arguably even better than it used to be due to its ability to take on Pokemon such as Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T with a +2 ExtremeSpeed. In addition to this, it Lucario fares well against Technician Breloom. As soon as Lucario sets up a Swords Dance, not many Pokemon will be able to take its attacks. Even Skarmory has a chance to be OHKOed by a +2 Close Combat after Stealth Rock, a testament to how powerful Lucario is after a boost. Although its base 90 Speed may seem like a let-down at first, Lucario gets ExtremeSpeed to get around circumvent that problem and allow it to take on Choice Scarf users such as Rotom-W, as well as priority users such as Breloom. Lucario's fourth move should be chosen depending on what Lucario's team needs covered the most. If Gliscor and Landorus-T need to be covered, Ice Punch is the preferred option. However, if you need to be able to handle Jellicent, Reuniclus, and Slowbro, Crunch should be used in order to handle these threats. If none of these Pokemon concern you, Bullet Punch is a solid option which allows Lucario to get past Gengar, Terrakion, and Choice Scarf Tyranitar.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Lucario should always run as much Attack and Speed as possible. Lucario's defenses are garbage, so investing in them will not get you anywhere. A Jolly nature can be used as this allows Lucario to outspeed opposing Swords Dance Lucario, who almost always use an Adamant nature. In addition to this, Jolly Lucario also outspeeds neutral-natured Celebi, Gliscor, Hydreigon, and Jirachi, all of which are capable of taking a boosted ExtremeSpeed from Lucario. However, outside of these threats, a Jolly nature is not that useful, especially because most Pokemon who use positive natures in order to outspeed Lucario get nailed by ExtremeSpeed, so the increase in power is generally more useful.</p>

    <p>Hi Jump Kick is worth considering over Close Combat due to its ability to deal more damage to certain physical walls, such as Hippowdon and Skarmory. With Hi Jump Kick, Lucario has a decent chance to OHKO Hippowdon at +2 after one layer of Spikes, and will always OHKO Skarmory after Stealth Rock. However, its 90% accuracy makes it less appealing, especially considering Lucario loses 50% of its health if it misses. In addition to this, Pokemon such as Blissey, Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Politoed may be seen using Protect, which makes Hi Jump Kick even more risky to use. Using Hi Jump Kick means Lucario no longer suffers from defense drops, but the defense drops due to using Close Combat do not matter because Lucario isn't surviving any non-resisted hit regardless.</p>

    <p>Lucario's ability choice comes down to the user's preference. Justified is generally more useful as this allows it to gain an additional Attack boost upon switching in on Dark-type attacks, and although there are few users of Dark-type attacks in OU, the only common user of flinching moves in OU, Jirachi, cannot reliably beat Lucario even when Justified is used as the ability. However, Inner Focus is still worth considering because this gives Lucario better chances against Jirachi.</p>

    <p>Because Lucario does not have good defenses, the best way for it to set up is to use teammates that attract Crunch and Pursuit, such as Latios, Latias, and Gengar. If Lucario isn't using Bullet Punch, Gengar is a solid check, OHKOing Lucario with Focus Blast. In order to remove Gengar from the opponent's team, Choice Scarf Tyranitar is a solid option as it can trap Gengar with Pursuit. Conkeldurr will also prove to be difficult for Lucario to handle, as it can even take a +3 ExtremeSpeed and OHKO with Mach Punch. To handle Conkeldurr, Slowbro is a good teammate as it can take care of Conkeldurr with a STAB Psychic. Slowbro is also slower than Conkeldurr, meaning Payback only hits for 50 base power against it, not factoring in super effectiveness. Wallbreakers such as Choice Band Dragonite, Choice Band Terrakion, and Mixed Salamence can wear down physical walls such as Slowbro and Hippowdon, making it easier for Lucario to sweep. Spikes support will also help it muscle through physical tanks, including the aforementioned Slowbro and Hippowdon.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With good stats in both Attack and Special Attack, as well as a good movepool, Lucario has quite a few more options. Stone Edge can be used on the Swords Dance set in order to hit Gyarados, while still hitting Pokemon such as Dragonite hard. Because Lucario's Special Attack stat is higher than its Attack stat, a Nasty Plot set may seem appealing at first glance. However, too many faster Pokemon resist Vacuum Wave, including Alakazam, Starmie, and Tornadus-T, so it is not as effective as its Swords Dance set. An Agility set may seem appealing as it can beat typical revenge killers such as Terrakion and Choice Scarf Tyranitar, but it is very weak and Breloom can easily revenge kill it with Mach Punch. Calm Mind could be used to boost Lucario's Special Defense while also boosting its Special Attack, but Lucario's frailty makes this a pointless endeavor and Keldeo does Calm Mind better anyway. Lucario can use Choice sets to a decent effect, particularly a Choice Specs set. However, in most cases it is better to use a different Pokemon for a Choice set, such as Latios, Scizor, or Terrakion. Lucario can make use of an Air Balloon to allow it to set up on Pokemon such as Landorus Choice-locked into Earthquake, but it will miss the extra damage output from Life Orb. Lucario has another ability, Steadfast, which boosts its Speed by one stage when it is flinched. However, because flinching moves are almost always paired up with paralysis, Steadfast is not a good choice.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Physically defensive Unaware Quagsire is one of the few physical walls who can take on Lucario and live to tell the tale. It cannot reliably switch in on Close Combat, but thanks to Unaware, it ignores Lucario's stat boosts, allowing it to easily take a Close Combat and retaliate with Earthquake or Earth Power. Hippowdon can take a +2 Close Combat and OHKO Lucario with Earthquake, although Hippowdon will be severely weakened and won't be taking a +3 Close Combat. Gliscor is capable of taking anything but Ice Punch, while it can also OHKO Lucario with Earthquake. Even if Lucario does use Ice Punch, faster variants of Gliscor can still check Lucario. Conkeldurr can take even a +3 ExtremeSpeed, while it can OHKO Lucario with Mach Punch. Sableye, although uncommon, can burn Lucario with Will-O-Wisp before Crunch does massive damage to it thanks to Prankster, which makes Lucario much easier to deal with.</p>

    <p>There are other Pokemon that can check Lucario, depending on what moves it uses. In particular, Pokemon with Intimidate such as Salamence, Landorus-T, and Gyarados can come in on Lucario as it uses Swords Dance, take a +1 ExtremeSpeed, and OHKO with the appropriate move. However, if Lucario uses Ice Punch, Salamence and Landorus-T must be careful about switching in. If Lucario uses Ice Punch or Bullet Punch, Jellicent and Slowbro can both comfortably wall Lucario and force it out. In a similar vein, if Lucario does not use Crunch, Reuniclus can take all of its attacks and OHKO it with Focus Blast. Gengar can check any Lucario except for those who use Bullet Punch and OHKO it with Focus Blast.</p>

    <p>If all else fails, revenge killing Lucario is always an option. Celebi and Jirachi only need 176 Speed EVs to outspeed Adamant Lucario, while they can both take a boosted ExtremeSpeed and OHKO Lucario with a super effective attack. Lucario is also outsped by Choice Scarf users such as Heatran, Terrakion, and Tyranitar, all of whom can take on Lucario due to their resistance to ExtremeSpeed. However, Terrakion and Tyranitar must look out for Bullet Punch.</p>



    Nice job writing this, I found like nothing... :p
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    In the checks and counters section, you forgot Lucario's bigest counter, defensive Gyarados. He avoids the 2hko from everything that Lucario has, even at +2 (+1), and ohkoes back with Waterfall or paralyzes with T-Wave.
  21. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    I've already mentioned Gyarados in Checks and Counters. I believe that's good enough.
  22. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Oh didn't see it, but you should put him in the first paragraph, and not with the other 2 Intimidate users that are afraid of Ice Punch.
  23. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    Quagsire never uses Earth Power so remove that on Check and Counters.
  24. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>One of the most threatening sweepers in DPP OU, Lucario has returned to the BW OU battlefield with some new toys. BW increased ExtremeSpeed's priority to +2, which means Mach Punch Infernape, a decent check to Lucario in DPP, can no longer check it. In addition, the Dream World gave Lucario an ability it can actually make good use of: Justified. With this ability, Lucario gains an Attack boost upon getting hit by any Dark-type attack, which it can easily switch into thanks to its 4x resistance to Dark. Lucario also has a rare 4x resistance to Stealth Rock, which makes it difficult to wear it down with entry hazards. Its Steel typing brings it an immunity to Toxic; it therefore doesn't have to worry about poison damage prematurely ending its sweeps. However, there are many Pokemon capable of beating Lucario, such as Terrakion and Conkeldurr. Lucario also has four moveslot syndrome, which prevents it from covering every single relevant threat. Despite its flaws, however, Lucario is a deadly sweeper that will destroy any team not prepared for it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: ExtremeSpeed
    move 4: Ice Punch / Crunch / Bullet Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Justified / Inner Focus
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Lucario's flagship set in DPP OU makes a return in BW2, and is arguably even better than it used to be, as ExtremeSpeed lets it take on Pokemon such as Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T, as well as Technician Breloom. As soon as Lucario sets up a Swords Dance boost, not many Pokemon will be able to take its attacks. Even Skarmory has a chance to be OHKOed by a +2 Close Combat after Stealth Rock, which is a testament to how powerful a boosted Lucario is. Although its base 90 Speed might seem like a letdown at first, Lucario gets ExtremeSpeed to circumvent that problem and allow it to take on Choice Scarf users such as Rotom-W, as well as priority users such as Breloom.</p>

    <p>Lucario's fourth move should depend on what its team most needs covered. If Gliscor and Landorus-T threaten the team, Ice Punch is the preferred option; however, if you need Lucario to handle Jellicent, Reuniclus, and Slowbro, use Crunch instead. If none of these Pokemon concern you, Bullet Punch is a solid option that allows Lucario to get past Gengar, Terrakion, and Choice Scarf Tyranitar.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Lucario should always run as much Attack and Speed as possible. Lucario's defenses are garbage, so investing in them will not get you anywhere. A Jolly nature allows Lucario to outspeed opposing Swords Dance Lucario, who almost always use an Adamant nature. In addition to this, Jolly Lucario also outspeeds neutral-natured Celebi, Gliscor, Hydreigon, and Jirachi, all of which are capable of taking a boosted ExtremeSpeed. However, a Jolly nature is not that useful outside of these threats because most Pokemon who use Speed-boosting natures to outspeed Lucario will get nailed by ExtremeSpeed; the increase in power is generally more useful.</p>

    <p>Hi Jump Kick is worth considering over Close Combat due to its ability to deal more damage to certain physical walls, such as Hippowdon and Skarmory. With Hi Jump Kick, Lucario has a decent chance to OHKO Hippowdon at +2 after one layer of Spikes, and will always OHKO Skarmory after Stealth Rock. However, its 90% accuracy makes it less appealing, especially considering Lucario loses 50% of its health if it misses. In addition to this, Pokemon such as Blissey, Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Politoed might be seen using Protect, which makes Hi Jump Kick even more risky to use. Using Hi Jump Kick means Lucario no longer suffers from defense drops, but the defense drops due to using Close Combat do not matter because Lucario isn't surviving any non-resisted hit regardless.</p>

    <p>Lucario's ability choice comes down to the user's preference. Justified is generally more useful as this allows it to gain an additional Attack boost upon switching in on Dark-type attacks. In addition, although there are few users of Dark-type attacks in OU, the only common user of flinching moves in OU, Jirachi, cannot reliably beat Justified Lucario. However, Inner Focus is still worth considering because this gives Lucario a better chance against Jirachi.</p>

    <p>As Lucario has poor defenses, the best way for it to set up is to use teammates that attract Crunch and Pursuit, such as Latios, Latias, and Gengar. If Lucario isn't using Bullet Punch, enemy Gengar are solid checks that can OHKO Lucario with Focus Blast; Choice Scarf Tyranitar can in turn trap Gengar with Pursuit. Conkeldurr will also prove to be difficult for Lucario to handle, as it can take even +3 ExtremeSpeed and OHKO with Mach Punch. Slowbro is a good teammate to handle Conkeldurr as it can take care of Conkeldurr with STAB Psychic. As Slowbro is also slower than Conkeldurr, Payback will only hit it for a low 50 Base Power. Wallbreakers such as Choice Band Dragonite, Choice Band Terrakion, and mixed Salamence can wear down physical walls such as Slowbro and Hippowdon, which makes it easier for Lucario to sweep. Spikes support from the likes of (who?) can also help Lucario muscle through physical tanks, including the aforementioned Slowbro and Hippowdon.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With good offensive stats and a good movepool, Lucario has quite a few more options. Stone Edge can be used on the Swords Dance set in order to hit Gyarados, while still hitting Pokemon such as Dragonite hard. As Lucario's Special Attack stat is higher than its Attack stat, a Nasty Plot set might seem appealing at first glance. However, too many faster Pokemon—including Alakazam, Starmie, and Tornadus-T—resist Vacuum Wave, so it is not as effective as the Swords Dance set is. An Agility set might seem appealing as it can beat typical revenge killers such as Terrakion and Choice Scarf Tyranitar, but it is very weak and Breloom can easily revenge kill it with Mach Punch. Calm Mind boosts Lucario's Special Defense while also raising its Special Attack, but Lucario's frailty makes this a pointless endeavor and Keldeo does Calm Mind better anyway.</p>

    <p>Lucario can use Choice sets to decent effect, particularly Choice Specs. However, the likes of Latios, Scizor, and Terrakion do these better. Lucario can make use of an Air Balloon to set up on Pokemon such as Landorus Choice-locked into Earthquake, but it will miss the extra damage output from Life Orb (any notable xhkos it misses?). Lucario has another ability, Steadfast, which boosts its Speed by one stage when it is flinched. However, because flinching moves are almost always paired up with paralysis, Steadfast is not a good choice.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Physically defensive Unaware Quagsire is one of the few physical walls that can take on Lucario and live to tell the tale. It cannot reliably switch in on Close Combat, but thanks to Unaware, it ignores Lucario's stat boosts, and can easily take Close Combat and retaliate with Earthquake. Hippowdon too can sponge +2 Close Combat and OHKO Lucario with Earthquake, but it will be severely weakened afterwards, and will fall to +3 Close Combat. Gliscor is capable of taking anything but Ice Punch, and can also OHKO Lucario with Earthquake; faster variants of Gliscor can check even Ice Punch Lucario. Conkeldurr can take even +3 ExtremeSpeed and OHKO Lucario with Mach Punch. Sableye, although uncommon, can burn Lucario with Prankster Will-O-Wisp before Crunch does massive damage to it, which makes Lucario much easier to deal with.</p>

    <p>There are other Pokemon that can check Lucario, depending on which moves it uses. In particular, Pokemon with Intimidate, such as Salamence, Landorus-T, and Gyarados, can come in on Lucario as it uses Swords Dance, take +1 ExtremeSpeed, and OHKO with the appropriate move. However, if Lucario carries Ice Punch, Salamence and Landorus-T must be careful of switching in. Jellicent and Slowbro can both comfortably wall and force out Lucario that lack Crunch, while Reuniclus can OHKO it with Focus Blast. Gengar can check Lucario that lack Bullet Punch and OHKO it with Focus Blast.</p>

    <p>If all else fails, revenge killing Lucario is always an option. Celebi and Jirachi only need 176 Speed EVs to outspeed neutral-natured Lucario, and can both take a boosted ExtremeSpeed and OHKO Lucario with a super effective attack. Choice Scarf users such as Heatran, Terrakion, and Tyranitar also outspeed Lucario, and can take it on due to their resistance to ExtremeSpeed, though the latter two must look out for Bullet Punch.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  25. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Thanks for the check! I mentioned Deoxys-D as a possible Spikes supporter, while also mentioning that Air Balloon makes it harder to deal with Skarmory and such.

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