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Lucario (Placeholder)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by LaFrozen, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. LaFrozen


    Feb 18, 2010

    STATUS: Getting there. Agility set needs doing, considering Band and Specs sets.


    • Very solid 110 Attack and 115 Special Attack, along side dual STAB, Physical and Special priority, and access to Nasty Plot, Swords Dance and Agility make Lucario a potent offensive threat.
    • Resistance to Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rocks lets Lucario switch in and out easily.
    • Nine resistances and one immunity make up for poor defences and bulk, but weakness to three common offensive types can cause trouble.
    • Mediocre speed is troublesome, particularly when priority attacks are resisted.
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Close Combat / Hi Jump Kick
    move 3: ExtremeSpeed
    move 4: Crunch / Stone Edge
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Inner Focus
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe


    • Little has changed since DPPt other than Hi Jump Kick's base power being boosted to 130, making it a viable substitute for Close Combat if you're willing to risk the 50% HP loss from a miss.
    • EVs maximise Lucario's Attack and Speed to give him the best sweeping opportunities.
    • Adamant nature Lucario reaches 701 Attack after a Swords Dance, enough to OHKO physically defensive Skarmory (97.6%-115.1% after Stealth Rock), while Jolly provides some valuable extra speed.
    • Crunch allows perfect coverage, and hits Ghosts walling your other moves for super effective damage, while Stone Edge is only resisted by Goruugu and hits Flying types hard.

    • With the prevalence of Burungeru running Crunch is recommended as always OHKOs after Stealth Rock damage (98.5%-116.3% to 252 HP / 252 Def).
    • ExtremeSpeed now has +2 priority, allowing Lucario to shut down Mischievous Heart users such as Erufuun, as well as a guaranteed out speed on Mach Punchers or Vacuum Wavers aiming to capitalise on Lucario's fragility and Fighting type weakness.
    • Hazards, particular Stealth Rocks, are a great help allowing Lucario to net useful OHKOs.
    name: Nasty Plot
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Aura Sphere
    move 3: Shadow Ball / Dark Pulse
    move 4: Vacuum Wave / HP Ice
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Inner Focus
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe


    • A new toy, Nasty Plot boosts Modest Lucario's already impressive Special Attack to reach 723, enough to bring 252HP / 0 SpD Blissey (83.2%-97.8) into Vacuum Wave KO range with Aura Sphere, and OHKO 252 HP / 240 SpD Skarmory.
    • EVs max Special Attack and Speed to give Lucario the best chance of pulling off a sweep. Modest nature allows Lucario to hit harder, but sacrifices the ability to outspeed neutral base 100s.
    • Fighting / Ghost provide completely unresisted coverage, but Dark Pulse means Normal types cannot switch in free on Ghost attacks, but allows Heracross and Toxicroak to resist.
    • HP Ice can hit Gliscor, who outspeeds and OHKOs on the switch for an OHKO, and also hits other fliers hard, but sacrifices priority
    • This set has no problems with the Burungeru / Nattorei combo, OHKOing them both with boosted super effective Special attacks.
    • Lucario's weakness to Fighting priority makes it bait for powerful Mach Punchers like Roobushin who easily survive a Vacuum Wave and OHKO in return.
    • Focus Blast provides a great deal of extra power, but sacrifices perfect accuracy. Not recommended unless the extra power is completely necessary.
    • Doryuuzu survives an unboosted Vacuum Wave (68.1% - 80.3%) and OHKOs back with Earthquake.
  2. Murkglow


    Sep 21, 2010
    Just a minor correction but Roobushin doesn't "resist" Vacuum Wave he is just bulk enough to take one usually.
  3. AlphaSpade


    Jun 27, 2006
    361 Atk vs 166 Def & 361 HP (40 Base Power): 246 - 290 (68.14% - 80.33%)

    Not so much, man.
  4. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 10 Champion

    Jun 5, 2009
    Lack of Choice Specs Lucario is disappointing; he's actually better in the BW meta than he is in current DPP. Add him please.
  5. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 12, 2009
    The use of Focus Blast seems completely obsolete compared to Aura Sphere. In my opinion, it CAN be an option, but it's a pretty life-gambling option. AC, at best; otherwise, Nasty Plot Lucario looks pretty solid. Put Focus Blast out of slash.

    As for Choice sets, keep in mind the limitations of such a set with the existence of some similar Fighting-type choice users. Extremespeed will probably be the best option in this case.
  6. Thoughts


    Sep 12, 2009
    I'd like to say HP Rock would still be a viable choice in the last slot for the NP set as it hits Gyara and the likes from what I've seen so far.
  7. Shnoogle


    Jul 2, 2009
    "Resistance to Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rocks lets Lucario switch in and out easily."

    Lucario does not resist Toxic Spikes, he is immune. Word it more like...

    4x resistance to Stealth Rock coupled with an immunity to Toxic Spikes allow Lucario to switch in and out of battle easily.
  8. iamfanboy


    Dec 4, 2010
    I registered just to point out that Shadow Ball's potential Sdef drop is more valuable when paired with Vacuum Wave - not to mention that NO ONE is going to switch a Normal-type into Lucario (except maybe Snorlax once they realise it's a Nasty Plotter), so you can safely use Shadow Ball on a predicted switch. Other possibilities are... interesting. A Nasty Plot Dragon Pulse could wreck the day of any dragon-type and maim any other possible switch-ins, especially because it would take huevos to switch a Steel-type into a potential +2 Aura Sphere. With today's metagame dominated by several strong Fighting-types, Psychic is another possibility that almost no one would suspect - and it has an even better chance of scoring an Sdef drop than Shadow Ball. Would an SE Shadow Ball score any prospective KOs on ghost types that would be missed on by a neutral Dragon Pulse/Psychic?

    One set I've been pondering is a Special Agility sweeper; since the most common counters of Lucario are physically defensive it could do wonders. Agility/Aura Sphere/Dark Pulse (chosen over Shadow Ball for the flinch chance)/Dragon Pulse could be lots and lots of fun.... One thing to consider is that using Sash over Life Orb for this set would let you pour salt into a Doryuuzu's Kool-aid by letting you Agility as you come in after a KO, survive his EQ, and KO with an Aura Sphere. Then again, Balloon would do the same thing, as Dory doesn't carry any moves that are SE on a floating Lucario... plus, Balloon would let you switch in on a predicted EQ, Agility while he pops your balloon with X-scissor, and almost certainly outspeed him with the right EV spread while you go for the KO with Aura Sphere. Full 252 probably wouldn't be necessary after an Agility, am I right?

    Weird thought: What about a Sashed Swords Dance set, with Swords Dance/Extremespeed/Close Combat/coverage move? SD on a switch, use ES against other priority users (with that +2 priority to outspeed 'em), and not fret at all about any SE moves because your coverage or CC+ES can probably KO. Somehow I feel that the buffed Extremespeed+Focus Sash is a potential winner here. I like Ice Punch as the coverage move, to be honest, as Gliscor/Lati@s/other defensive Dragons are frequent switch-ins and the Sash will let the Luke survive any Earthquakes and KO with +2 Punch. Not only that, a Scarfed Ditto who comes in to revenge on you won't be expecting a Sash and will eat a +2 CC for the KO.

    I just wish I could come up with a usable mixed set; a mixed Lucario was my go-to guy for the Battle Tower in SS with Extremespeed/Aura Sphere/Crunch/Dragon Pulse. Friggin' Double Team Cradilys... EAT AURA SPHERE! Still, a mixed set is just outclassed by its dedicated boosting sets; I doubt a mixed set could knock down Skarmbliss which means it fails as a wallbreaker. Lucario DOES get Cheer Up but still... +2 in one stat is better than +1 in two.

    All in all, Lucario got two VERY nice toys to play with this gen, to wit Nasty Plot and buffed Extremespeed. With those two it stays current as an unpredictable jackal of all trades. Hah!
  9. soonerorlater


    Jul 11, 2010
    ^it's mostly true, but Dark Pulse has potential flinch. Technically, your argument is invalid since 2HKO with Dark Pulse Flinch is more likely to happen than Shadow Ball + Vacuum Wave with SpD drop (20% vs 10%).

    Agility set needs to be physical so it has higher BP moves. Close Combat does more damage than Aura Sphere figure-wise with higher base power. Lucario also has Ice Punch and Crunch, which deals with Ghost types and Gliscor. Agility with Aura Sphere / Shadow Ball / HP Ice may be possible, but it doesn't hit hard enough with Aura Sphere and Lucario will die against slightly bulky mons, which physical agility may break through.
  10. Little Battler

    Little Battler

    Dec 13, 2009
    ^lucario's speed is too low to abuse the flinching properties of dark pulse so I understand why he would use shadow ball over dark pulse
  11. Forte.EXE


    May 22, 2010
    I think Balloon deserves either a slash in or a sentence in Other Options on the Nasty Plot set. With Balloon, you can come in on Doryuuzu Earthquake/Swords Dance, Nasty Plot up as they break your Balloon, and Vacuum Wave for the OHKO.
  12. iamfanboy


    Dec 4, 2010
    With a Special Agility set, the potential flinch of Dark Pulse could make a difference over a SpD drop from Shadow Ball. On a Nasty Plot set, the SpD drop could make the difference between a KO on a specially defensive switch-in once they realize you're running NP. Both are potentially useful, which is why they should be slashed on both sets, but each is the primary on each set for a different reason.

    As far as a Physical Agility set goes, it's virtually unchanged from 4th Gen - the only question now is Balloon vs. Life Orb vs. Focus Sash, and that comes down to revenge Dory, setup sweep, or lure Ditto... which depends on how centralizing those two pogeymans actually ARE in the developed metagame.

    Honestly, as far as Special vs. Physical on the Agility set, it all comes down to the counters. Think about the mindgames of using Agility as your setup move on Lucario - people STILL won't know whether you're physical or special, and will assume you're physical because, well, Close Combat. If they switch in a Gliscor, it's cleanly 2 hit KO'd by Dragon Pulse or Psychic; over 50% damage. If you're running HP Ice, it cleanly 1HKOs (something in the range of 200%) versus a chance of Ice Punch Agility leaving it alive (96%-112%). Skarmory is a joke; a certain 1HKO with Aura Sphere provided you've got rocks up. Not to mention that using Roost removes its fighting resistance....

    And as far as special defenders go... Blissey takes 43%-50% from Aura Sphere coming from a Life Orb Modest Lucario, a clean 2HKO with almost any hazards up. Hard to get stronger than that. Unless it uses Softboiled on the turn it comes in, it will die - and you can stall out Softboiled all day with Aura Sphere's PP.

    Not to mention avoiding residual damage from Rough Skin, that new helmet item, Nattorei's barbs, etcetera...

    So, yeah. On paper, Special Agility IS weaker than Physical Agility. But in terms of "What people switch into a Lucario, looking to handle it" Special Agility can walk all over a wide range of pogeys that would wall a Physical Agility set, and can still handle common special walls.
  13. madgenius2013


    Nov 28, 2010
    Choice Specs needs to be added. Lucario's Sp. Atk. is superior to his Atk. Choce Specs STAB Vaccuum Wave can be helpful against Doryuuzu.

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