Lucario [QC Reject 2/2]

[Jonater]

Fists of Fury



Overview
########

[Pros]

• Powerful 110/115/90 offenses
• Typing gives it many resistances
• Access to many forms of priority such as Extreme Speed, Bullet Punch, and Vacuum Wave.
• Mega Evolution further boosts Lucario's strength by giving it 145/140/112 offenses
• Gains Adaptability after Mega Evolution, giving it the strongest Close Combat in the game
• Versatile; Can run either a physical set, special set or even a mixed set

[Cons]

• Defensive stats are lacking, with 70/70/70 defenses Pre-Evolution and only a minor boost to defense after Mega
• Its Pre-Evolution speed tier is lacking compared to other pokemon
• Faces competition with opposing Fighting-Types, especially Medicham-Mega, who is overall more powerful with Pure Power.

Physical Attacker
########
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Extreme Speed / Bullet Punch
move 3: Crunch / Rock Slide
move 4: Detect
ability: Inner Focus
item: Lucarionite / Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
nature: Jolly / Adamant

Moves
========

• Close Combat is its strongest stab move, allowing Lucario to do massive damage to the majority of the tier.
• Extreme Speed allows Lucario to outspeed most moves, even common priority moves like Mach Punch.
• Crunch is coverage and allows Lucario to hit Ghost-Types, which its other moves cannot touch.
• Detect allows Lucario to potentially neutralize an attack so that a teammate can deal with an opposing pokemon.
• Bullet Punch can be used over Extreme Speed to better deal with Fairy-Types, but it only hits Mawile-Mega neutrally.
• Rock Slide is a spread move and allows it to hit rock weak pokemon such as Charizard and Talonflame.

Set Details
========

• EV's are designed to maximize offensive power and to make it as fast as possible
• Jolly is recommended to outspeed as much as possible and to speed tie against opposing Lucario's.
• Adamant can be use to further bolster Lucario's power.
• Lucarionite is Lucario's main item, allow it to have an outragously strong stab in Close Combat.
• Life Orb can be used instead if you need to use a different mega on your team.

Usage Tips
========

• Pick off slower and frail pokemon and let the partner pokemon chip damage against bulkier pokemon.
• It is somewhat a glass cannon; be sure to play it carefully.
• It is recommended to detect on the turn you Mega Evolve because speed updates only after the turn you Mega Evolve and so that you do not get outspeed and knocked out during that turn.

Team Options
========

Special Attacker
########
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Aura Sphere
move 2: Vacuum Wave
move 3: Dark Pulse / Flash Cannon / Hidden Power [Ice]
move 4: Detect
ability: Inner Focus
item: Lucarionite / Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
nature: Timid / Modest

Moves
========

INFO ABOUT MOVES GOES HERE

Set Details
========

EVS / ITEM / NATURE INFORMATION GOES HERE

Usage Tips
========

USAGE TIPS GO HERE

Team Options
========

TEAM OPTIONS GO HERE


Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Follow Me
move 2: Sky Uppercut/ Close Combat
move 3: Extreme Speed
move 4: Heal Pulse / Detect
ability: Inner Focus
item: Sitrus Berry / Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Careful

Moves
========

INFO ABOUT MOVES GOES HERE

Set Details
========

EVS / ITEM / NATURE INFORMATION GOES HERE

Usage Tips
========

USAGE TIPS GO HERE

Team Options
========

TEAM OPTIONS GO HERE

Other Options
########

OTHER OPTIONS GOES HERE. STUFF LIKE ALTERNATE MOVES, ALTERNATE SETS, NICHE STUFF THAT DOESN'T GET A MAIN SET MENTION


Checks & Counters
########

CHECKS & COUNTERS GO HERE
NOTE THAT THIS WILL BE MORE THREATLISTY SO MENTION POKEMON / OTHER EFFECTS ONE AT A TIME

 

[Martin]

ik its not QC yet, but there are a couple of things.

I would personally move the special set to the top due to the prevelance of Will-O-Wisp and Intimidate.
IMO, there is no reason to run Luke outside of mega. If you want a non-mega Fighting-type, you're better off with Mienshao
Also, why do you have Mach Punch or High Jump Kick on the set? The prioroty move of choice on Mega Luke is BP for the coverage, and the miss chance of HJK is too costly to be worth it. If I were doing the analysis, the physical set would be this:

move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Bullet Punch
move 3: Rock Slide / Crunch
move 4: Detect
ability: Inner Focus / Justified
item: Lucarionite

moves
========
E-Speed

lol why is the support set even there? If you want to do that, you may as well just use Mienshao or Smeargle.
Remove Focus Miss from the special set. No reason to run it. Also, make Lucarionite the only item. Also mention steadfast in set comments

 

[Jonater]

ik its not QC yet, but there are a couple of things.

I would personally move the special set to the top due to the prevelance of Will-O-Wisp and Intimidate.
IMO, there is no reason to run Luke outside of mega. If you want a non-mega Fighting-type, you're better off with Mienshao
Also, why do you have Mach Punch or High Jump Kick on the set? The prioroty move of choice on Mega Luke is BP for the coverage, and the miss chance of HJK is too costly to be worth it. If I were doing the analysis, the physical set would be this:

move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Bullet Punch
move 3: Rock Slide / Crunch
move 4: Detect
ability: Inner Focus / Justified
item: Lucarionite

moves
========
E-Speed

lol why is the support set even there? If you want to do that, you may as well just use Mienshao or Smeargle.
Remove Focus Miss from the special set. No reason to run it. Also, make Lucarionite the only item. Also mention steadfast in set comments

the physical set is up there first because it is most known for having the strongest close combat in the game.
lucario can be used if a player needs reliable priority in extreme speed to deal damage. in addition, lucario has more of a variety of priority moves that it can use such as mach punch or bullet punch. lucario has a more powerful and reliable stab in close combat while mienshao has to use the unreliable hi jump kick or the weaker drain punch as a stab.
both hjk and mach punch have been removed, but mach punch will be mentioned in oo
the support set is useful in situations where one cannot use amoongus in their team. also, follow me cannot be blocked by grass-types or the item, safety goggles, which makes it more useful than rage powder and makes the support set viable.
removed focus blast, but will mention in oo as a more riskier, but more powerful stab. i am leaving life orb. i will mention steadfast in oo.

 

[bwebber]

Lucario can't learn Mach Punch

 

[Martin]

the support set is useful in situations where one cannot use amoongus in their team. also, follow me cannot be blocked by grass-types or the item, safety goggles, which makes it more useful than rage powder and makes the support set viable.

lol why is the support set even there? If you want to do that, you may as well just use Mienshao or Smeargle.

Smeargle is a far better user of Follow Me due to access to Fake Out, Dark Void, Transform, King's Shield etc.. If you insist on keeping the set though (which I don't think you should because it is better off straight up attacking) only give Brick Break a moves mention. I understand its purpose, but it is far too weak to be recommended. I would also make it more of an offensive supporter so as to make it a little more worthwhile, as you are better off just using Clawitzer for Heal Pulse support due to Mega Launcher boosting it, making Follow Me its only real niche in support (but even then, it is only niche). The set should look something like this:

Offensive Follow Me-Support
########
name: Offensive Follow Me-Support
move 1: Follow Me
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Extreme Speed
move 4: Detect / Crunch / Rock Slide
ability: Inner Focus
item: Lucarionite
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

moves
========
-Aura Sphere

IMO, there is no reason to run Luke outside of mega. If you want a non-mega Fighting-type, you're better off with Mienshao

That's why I said don't slash Life Orb.

 

[Jonater]

Smeargle is a far better user of Follow Me due to access to Fake Out, Dark Void, Transform, King's Shield etc.. If you insist on keeping the set though (which I don't think you should because it is better off straight up attacking) only give Brick Break a moves mention. I understand its purpose, but it is far too weak to be recommended. I would also make it more of an offensive supporter so as to make it a little more worthwhile, as you are better off just using Clawitzer for Heal Pulse support due to Mega Launcher boosting it, making Follow Me its only real niche in support (but even then, it is only niche). The set should look something like this:

Offensive Follow Me-Support
########
name: Offensive Follow Me-Support
move 1: Follow Me
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Extreme Speed
move 4: Detect / Crunch / Rock Slide
ability: Inner Focus
item: Lucarionite
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

moves
========
-Aura Sphere


That's why I said don't slash Life Orb.

Smeargle doesn't need follow-me simply because it is target down because of the risk of being Dark Voided. Clawitzer does not have the 8 resistances and 1 immunity that Lucario has, so Lucario with Heal Pulse has a niche; however, I will slash detect first and follow me second and will remove Brick Break as a stab. Would Sky Uppercut be more viable?

 

[Jonater]

Lucario can't learn Mach Punch

oops, i will remove mentions of that in the analysis

 

[Jowyatriedes]

I'm just wondering? Why doesn't lucario have justified on physical? If you predict the dark type move and switch into it lucario is +2 and really puts in the work

 

[LightningLuxray]

I'm just wondering? Why doesn't lucario have justified on physical? If you predict the dark type move and switch into it lucario is +2 and really puts in the work

Because Inner Focus makes him immune to flinches from Fake Out, which is generally superior.

EDIT: Also, Justified only raises Attack by one stage, not two.

 

[Martin]

I would keep Inner Focus as the ability on the physical set. Just make sure to mention Justified in set details as it does have its uses.

Smeargle doesn't need follow-me simply because it is target down because of the risk of being Dark Voided. Clawitzer does not have the 8 resistances and 1 immunity that Lucario has, so Lucario with Heal Pulse has a niche; however, I will slash detect first and follow me second and will remove Brick Break as a stab. Would Sky Uppercut be more viable?

Nah. Just stick with Close Combat and give Brick Break a moves mention and/or OO mention for its ability to get rid of Dual Screens. Sky Uppercut isn't any better tbh - in fact it is worse than Brick Break on this set. Also, at least give it the fast offensive spread and Jolly. It is the main reason to use it over Smeargle - who has literally every move in the game - and Clawitzer - who is bulkier and has Mega Launcher - outside of the resistances tbh as it can go fast - something Clawitzer can't do - and offensive - something that Smeargle can't do.

 

[DJQuack8D]

On the Physical Attacker set using Lucarionite, I'd change the Speed EVs to 164. This allows it to, after Mega Evolving, outspeed Mega Charizard Y and Mega Kangaskhan and OHKO them with Rock Slide and Close Combat respectively.

Edit: Here's the spread with the changed EVs:
Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus
Jolly Nature
EVs: 92 HP, 252 Attack, 164 Speed
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Rock Slide
- Detect

 

[Martin]

On the Physical Attacker set using Lucarionite, I'd change the Speed EVs to 164. This allows it to, after Mega Evolving, outspeed Mega Charizard Y and Mega Kangaskhan and OHKO them with Rock Slide and Close Combat respectively.

Edit: Here's the spread with the changed EVs:
Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus
Jolly Nature
EVs: 92 HP, 252 Attack, 164 Speed
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Rock Slide
- Detect

Wouldn't it be more benificial to run max speed and keep Mega Lucario's great speed tier as it isn't exactly the bulkiest thing in the world, and I'm not sure what 92 HP actually changes with it.

 

[bwebber]

On the Physical Attacker set using Lucarionite, I'd change the Speed EVs to 164. This allows it to, after Mega Evolving, outspeed Mega Charizard Y and Mega Kangaskhan and OHKO them with Rock Slide and Close Combat respectively.

Edit: Here's the spread with the changed EVs:
Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus
Jolly Nature
EVs: 92 HP, 252 Attack, 164 Speed
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Rock Slide
- Detect

I really don't think that's a good idea... What does that added bulk help it survive? Because that spread is outrun by Garchomp, Pyroar, Talonflame, among other things, which is suboptimal to say the least.

Also Jonater, I would mention that Lucario is the best check in the format to Kangaskhan, which is its biggest selling point. I also haven't found it to need priority; Lucario is already really fast and resists Sucker Punch. Coverage has been more important for me

 

[Martin]

I agree that E-Speed isn't really needed, as you have no reason to try and outppace Talonflame's Brave Bird (you have no reason to take it), and BP is the best for the STAB +adaptability anyway. While the same power, E-Speed simply isn't worth is

 

[Jonater]

alright, you guys convinced me, ill slap espeed in oo

later though, im lazy af

 

[Laurel]

posting to remind you that you made this Jonater

 

[P3DS]

You should put nasty plot on the special set as a possible 3rd move. Most things cringe at a +2 adaptability aura sphere

 

[Martin]

You should put nasty plot on the special set as a possible 3rd move. Most things cringe at a +2 adaptability aura sphere

Setting up in VGC is REALLY hard. Furthermore, Lucario is so frail that it really can't afford to be even trying to set up in such a fast-pased format where everything will be trying to KO it almost as soon as it gets onto the field.

 

[Mymble]

Setting up in VGC is REALLY hard. Furthermore, Lucario is so frail that it really can't afford to be even trying to set up in such a fast-pased format where everything will be trying to KO it almost as soon as it gets onto the field.

I've been waiting to say anything since this isn't in QC yet but, Mega Lucario's special set should probably look like this:

Special Attacker
########
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Aura Sphere / Vacuum Wave
move 2: Flash Cannon / (Dark Pulse?)
move 3: Nasty Plot / Substitute
move 4: Detect
ability: Inner Focus
item: Lucarionite
evs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
nature: Timid

Having used special Mega Lucario a fair amount myself, I can say it needs Aura Sphere to be able to hit powerfully off the bat (OHKOing Mega Kangaskhan), Vacuum Wave is only useful if you can guarantee a Nasty Plot which for the most part you can't. Dark Pulse doesn't really change the fact that Aegislash stops it, especially if it is Weakness Policy. Hidden Power Ice is very weak it doesn't OHKO either Salamence or Garchomp unboosted. The fact that this is nowhere near completed means you can't comment on set details as Jonater hasn't added them yet, but Amoonguss is more than likely going to be in them given how much it aids in setting up. With the analysis in this state it wouldn't be fair to say more.

 

[Unowninator]

Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Follow Me
move 2: Sky Uppercut/ Close Combat
move 3: Extreme Speed
move 4: Heal Pulse / Detect
ability: Inner Focus
item: Sitrus Berry / Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

I've a few things I'd like to say about this set: First, I feel Aura Sphere would be better than Sky Uppercut due to its accuracy, plus it can hit Garchomp & Ferrothorn without touching it.

And as long as it's a support set, how about using Feint over Extremespeed?

 

[P3DS]

Setting up in VGC is REALLY hard. Furthermore, Lucario is so frail that it really can't afford to be even trying to set up in such a fast-pased format where everything will be trying to KO it almost as soon as it gets onto the field.

http://www.eggyemporium.com/slider/wolfes-regional-team-kalos-double/

^Have a read of that. I have even tried it, and it can set up with support. And when set up, it wrecks. And the fact it will draw attention is what you want. Redirect those harsh moves, and cause chaos with your partner. And as you can see, with the support, it is a brilliant pokemon. Even look at the calcs. It can pack a punch.

I've been waiting to say anything since this isn't in QC yet but, Mega Lucario's special set should probably look like this:

Special Attacker
########
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Aura Sphere / Vacuum Wave
move 2: Flash Cannon / (Dark Pulse?)
move 3: Nasty Plot / Substitute
move 4: Detect
ability: Inner Focus
item: Lucarionite
evs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
nature: Timid

Having used special Mega Lucario a fair amount myself, I can say it needs Aura Sphere to be able to hit powerfully off the bat (OHKOing Mega Kangaskhan), Vacuum Wave is only useful if you can guarantee a Nasty Plot which for the most part you can't. Dark Pulse doesn't really change the fact that Aegislash stops it, especially if it is Weakness Policy. Hidden Power Ice is very weak it doesn't OHKO either Salamence or Garchomp unboosted. The fact that this is nowhere near completed means you can't comment on set details as Jonater hasn't added them yet, but Amoonguss is more than likely going to be in them given how much it aids in setting up. With the analysis in this state it wouldn't be fair to say more.

Put vaccum wave and dark pulse on move 3 as well. Having the 2 good STABs in aura sphere and flash cannon is good, and then vaccum wave to finish off, whilst dark pulse is to aim at aegi

 

[Laurel]

just do aromatisse, we don't have time for lucario, and not much of this is finished

qc reject: 1/2

 

[Audiosurfer]

ill finish this off with a qc reject 2/2 Jonater