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Pokémon Lucario

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Subject 18, Oct 15, 2013.

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  1. Subject 18

    Subject 18
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    Lucario #448

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Type:
    Fighting/Steel
    Abilities: Inner Focus / Steadfast / Justified / Adaptability (Mega Evo)​
    Base Stats: 70 HP / 110 Atk / 70 Def / 115 SpA / 70 SpDef / 90 Spd
    Base Stats (Mega Evo): 70 HP / 145 Atk / 88 Def / 140 SpA / 70 SpDef / 112 Spd


    Notable Moves:
    Close Combat
    Ice Punch
    Extreme Speed
    Swords Dance
    Agility
    Nasty Plot
    Bullet Punch
    Dragon Pulse
    Aura Sphere
    Focus Blast
    Vacuum Wave
    Stone Edge
    Shadow Ball
    Earthquake
    Crunch
    Dark Pulse

    General Analysis
    Ever since Generation IV, Lucario has been a present force in the metagame. With a very diverse movepool, three different boosting moves and good stats to make use of it all it quickly became a popular pokemon and one of the most threatening sweeper in the game. Generation V added to that with Extreme Speed become a +2 priority move allowing it to get past its former checks such as Infernape who could OHKO it with Mach Punch. On top that it also gain a new ability in Justified. With this ability Lucario could would gain an attack boost when hit with a dark type attack, which it could easily switch in on due to its 4x resistance. These new tools made Lucario a very dangerous pokemon to face in Generation V.

    Now, in Generation VI, Lucario has received even more tools to add to its already large arsenal. With this new generation introducing Mega Evolution Lucario was one of the several Pokemon to receive a Mega Evolution. Though its mediocre defense are largely unchanged it can now boast monstrous 145 Attack, 140 Special Attack and 112 Speed stats. Lucario was also blessed with new ability in Adaptability that makes STAB moves x2 rather than the normal x1.5. With new tools, Lucario is ready, again, be one of the most threatening Pokemon in the game.

    Potential Sets:

    Name: Swords Dance
    [​IMG]
    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Crunch / Bullet Punch / Ice Punch
    - Swords Dance

    This was easily Lucario's best set last generation and will likely continue to be its staple set. With this set Lucario excelled at sweeping team following a Swords Dance. Extreme Speed gave it great priority to take out anything that was faster and didn't resist it. Close Combat was its main STAB that crushed Steel types, Blissey, Chansey and many other Pokemon. The last slot largely depended on what your team was weak to. Crunch dealt with Ghost types such as Jellicent, Ice Punch for Gliscor and Landorus-T, and Bullet Punch for beating Terrakion.


    Name: Mega Physical Sweeper

    [​IMG]
    Lucario @ Lucarionite
    Ability: Adaptability
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Adamant / Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Bullet Punch
    - Ice Punch / Crunch / ExtremeSpeed
    - Swords Dance

    Lucario's newly acquired ability gets its time to shine by turning Close Combat into a 240 BP move backed by a huge 145 base Attack stat. At +2 the number of Pokemon that are able to within the brute force of this attack are few. Adaptability gives you the option of dropping ExtremeSpeed for Bullet Punch, who now is just as strong as ExtremeSpeed. However, without ExtremeSpeed Lucario Scarfed Keldeo can comfortably take a +2 Bullet Punch and OHKO with Secret Sword. The option of Ice Punch or Crunch depends on either Ghost types pose an issue to Lucario's sweep or Landorus-T and Gliscor are the problematic ones. Using an Adamant nature will maximize its damage output at the cost of being out sped by Infernape and Keldeo who are guaranteed to OHKO you.


    Mega Special Sweeper

    [​IMG]

    Lucario @ Lucarionite
    Ability: Steadfast
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Aura Sphere
    - Dark Pulse / Vacuum Wave
    - Flash Cannon
    - Nasty Plot

    With generation six arriving Lucario was one of the blessed few to get a Mega Evolution, this makes him one of if not the most dangerous Pokemon in the game. With a newly acquired 140 Special Attack Lucario and Adaptability can abuse a Nasty Plot better then it ever hoped in the past. With its 112 Speed everything it feared in the past that outsped it is no longer an issue as you are faster and can OHKO with a boosted attack. Aura Sphere and Flash Cannon are your STAB moves hitting having great coverage and the last choice of Dark Pulse or Vacuum Wave comes to user choice. If you choose Dark Pulse Aegislash and Ghost types can't hope to safely switch into Mega Lucario while Vacuum Wave gives you priority to be able to take you Sand Rush Excadrill under the sand.


    Last Comments:

    Lucario has all the tools to be the most threatening Pokemon in the game with a new ability and more powerful stats to abuse its large movepool. You are limited to a Physical set with the number of good special moves it gets you could run a solid Nasty Plot sweeping set, Agility set, or mixed wallbreaker. The major downside of Lucario is it possess one of the worst cases of four moveslot syndrome. It just can't beat enough with just four moves there will be always be something that will pose to be an issue and because of this is why it has been and always will be one of the most difficult Pokemon to fully counter.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2013
    yogadhan and Lord Ghetsis like this.
  2. Articanus

    Articanus

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    While it isn't guaranteed that the damage formula looks the same as in Gen V:

    252+ Atk Adaptability (custom) Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 178-210 (53.29 - 62.87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    (178, 180, 182, 184, 186, 188, 190, 192, 194, 196, 198, 200, 202, 204, 206, 210)

    I thought those were some cool numbers to bring up. Considering Lucario has gained enough attacking capabilites to straight up 2HKO Skarmory with Close Combat, why not go for a full on attacking moveset to compliment his new speed?

    Lucario @ Lucarionite
    Adaptability: Adamant/ Jolly
    4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
    Close Combat
    Crunch
    Ice Punch
    Bullet Punch

    252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.51 - 50.29%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    (142, 142, 144, 146, 148, 149, 152, 153, 153, 156, 157, 160, 161, 164, 165, 168)

    for comparison sake.

    Obviously you lose power in your priority move, but when you consider what it was used on and what his new speed tier is now, I think you would be better off just going for more attacks. Not to mention the 4x resistance to SR. resistance to SS, and natural resistances galore, having more switching opportunities by not only increasing his base defense but removing Life Orb recoil is more than welcome. Depending on how the metagame shifts, you can even try Agility Mega Lucario without priority moves; still suffers from move coverage if you lose the steel attack, though.

    252 Atk Adaptability (custom) Close Combat vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (49.54 - 58.71%) -- 69.53% chance to 2HKO

    (162, 164, 166, 168, 170, 172, 174, 176, 178, 180, 182, 184, 186, 188, 190, 192)

    For jolly Lucario. SR guarantees the 2HKO.
    Stathakis likes this.
  3. Reikai

    Reikai

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    I really like Lucario, and with this gen's Mega Lucario, I am determined to use him more.

    I keep reading about how Lucario is a huge force in the metagame, but whenever I run him, I always come across the same issues. He is just too fragile and too slow for what he provides. Even at 4x Dark resist, he still gets chunked by switching into a Dark move, or, if you've been outread, he just dies.

    I've also never actually found a good time to use Sword's Dance on him, again, because he is far too fragile.

    Eventually, I just gave up trying to use him because of all the problems I ran into.

    If anyone has any tips and/or suggestions as to how to set him up, or perhaps some pokemon that synergize well with him, I would very much appreciate it.
    Meleotta3 likes this.
  4. Articanus

    Articanus

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    Assuming Wobbuffet starts off allowed, that's a good start. Wobb + Lucario has always been a menace in any metagame they are allowed in(... though maybe not gen V now that I see he's BL). Balloon Heatran does well paired with it, and I am sure Tyranitar can work itself in setting SR and SS which being a nice aggressive wallish monster... they also have to fear which one is the mega evolution!(I say give t-tar the expert belt =P)

    On top of that scizor does well with all of the mentioned pokemon, so I think I just made most of a team with Wobb, Lucario, Heatran, Tyranitar, Scizor, and probably something that isn't screwed by EQ(Salamence comes to mind first, but you could be like me and use garchomp as well).
  5. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    I'll probably try to work on a set myself but how about Mixed Lucario ?
    145 Atk and 140 SAtk alongside 112 Spe should be more than enough to compliment each other. Lucario does lack the ability to pack Life Orb or Expert Belt so he will be "weaker" compared to other Mixed Attackers. But honestly, 145/140/112 is just a godsend along with Lucario's typing and extensive movepool.
  6. Onicon

    Onicon

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    Lucario wants to setup on something that cannot hurt it properly. In BW(2) it was fairly easy to bring it in Ferrothorn or choice-locked Tyranitar. We never though Lucario really needs that much support apart from hazards and a Pursuit trapper to remove Jellicent.

    A few things to consider in MegaLucario:
    If Ice Punch is the first choice, Jolly should be, too. It should be able to outpace Garchomp, because Bullet Punch isn't quite enough kill it without lots of hazards involved, even with Adamant nature. Salamence is more neglectable, because it still is a straight OHKO with SR, but Garchomp is not. Jolly still is enough to OHKO Gliscor and Landorus-T, so here you go:

    • +2 252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 216-256 (60.33 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • +2 252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 250-296 (75.52 - 89.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • +2 252 Atk Lucario Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 440-520 (125 - 147.72%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    • +1 252 Atk Lucario Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 412-488 (107.85 - 127.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Before anyone ask, those are done with the correct base stat of 145 Atk.
  7. Articanus

    Articanus

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    You bold extensive as if he has any truly good Special options.

    Aura Sphere is now truly outclassed by Close Combat now that the whole "but SpA is higher!" thing that people would spout doesn't apply. Vacuum Wave doesn't help against any particular pokemon more than Bullet Punch or Extremespeed, and even some weird Hidden Power is pretty mediocre with the base power drop.

    Special attacks are a trap on Lucario.

    Edit: Onicon, I would bet money that CC -> Bullet Punch hurts Garchomp a lot and hurts Salamence too with SR out.

    Basically I'm suggesting my all attacking moves still.
  8. Onicon

    Onicon

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    Jolly Garchom is 333 fast, Adamant MegaLucario is 323, so Lucario dies, unless it is Jolly. It is not like you are missing out something with Ice Punch. Outspeeding Keldeo is just the icing on the cake.
  9. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Mega Lucario boosts Lucario right through some crucial Speed tiers, buffs Bullet Punch to the same raw power as Extreme Speed, and gives a giant power increase to Close Combat. Seems like it's set to become the new standard for Lucario; LO Lucario will have to be limited to specific situations where the bit of extra strength on non-CC moves is worth it by hitting crucial KOs.

    Looking at the numbers, Mega Luke's CC hits for 125% as much as LO Luke's, while his other moves only drop to 94% power. That's a really tough situation for LO Luke to hold up in, especially when considering the other gains. Of course, all bets are off when you've got your Mega slot filled by something else.
  10. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    I don't think so. He has a LOT of special variety, and saying "Attack is better because it's five points higher!" is a bit pointless with an Adaptability boost when both are in the 140s.

    Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Aura Sphere, Flash Cannon, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Vaccum Wave (better than Bullet Punch because Fighting remains a better type, new resist or not), and all with a potential Nasty Plot boost. THAT is good in my book.

    Also, anyone else wondering why it doesn't get Mega Launcher? It learns all of the moves that ability boosts, albeit Water Pulse is hard to access on it.
    Karxrida, Edgar81539 and xlxlxlxl like this.
  11. Tesung

    Tesung

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    Agility megalucario anyone? Its close combat is already strong enough, so just outspeeding everything and ccing it seems fun. I can't remember if it gets iron head but I think it does so a set like
    Evs: 252 Atk, 252 spd, 4hp
    Lucario @ lucarionite
    Adaptabilty
    Jolly/adamant
    Agility
    Close combat
    Iron head
    Ice punch/crunch

    Obviously it has to choose between gliscor and landorus t coverage or jellicent and aegislash coverage, but I think that this set could be a huge threat to offensive team who may lack anything that can take a hit
  12. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    With Agility, you only gain a few things you outspeed - some of the faster pokemon of the tier (maybe it will be useful if there is a Mega Aerodactyl surge) and Scarfers. Sure, outdoing them is fun, but for most just running Bullet Punch is better.
  13. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
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    idk how people (or the OP for the matter) are claiming standard Luke outclasses it in in any way, MegaLuke is comparable (if not superior in all aspects) if I'm not wrong this thing will have cause the OU council quite a few headaches when the OU metagame starts to take shape.

    Let's address the specific argument: -

    Who cares? Mega Lucario fixes two vital flaws that forced Luke to run spam Extremespeed in the first place.
    First is upgrading the speed tier from a disappointing base 90 to a absolutely awesome 112, letting it naturally outspeed all 100s and below. Which means all the typical stuff that harassed Lucario no longer outspeed it (yeah FUCK YOU Thundy-t ), meaning the need to spam a priority in the first place is already decreased.

    Second is Adaptability, coupled with Bullet Punch.
    Factoring Adaptability, MegaLuke's Bullet Punch hits off with the same Base Power as Technician Scizor's (off a HIGHER atk stat), so I'll leave you to do the math, especially after a +2 SD boost. Let's admit it, only things out-speeding MegaLuke are the staple Base 100+ scarfers and chlorophyll users, and all of them (except Keldeo) take a hammering from dat uber Bullet Punch. Anything else naturally outspeeding it and threatening it (Talonflame/Alakazam/Duggy/ MegaAero) are unlikely to have the bulk to stomach boosted BPs, Mega Aero outright get's beaten 1v1.

    considering these two factors, I'd say fuck yeah, MegaLuke will be a defining force this meta.

    Screw Agility lol, that's a terrible idea
    truedrew and DTHaseo like this.
  14. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Something to consider:

    The speed boost that Lucario gains from its Mega Evolution will not come into affect until the next turn. In other words, if you face off against a Latias, you have you can't mega evolve and expect to outspeed it. You CAN outspeed it on the following turn though.
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  15. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
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    I'd expect fundamental Set-up procedure to be the same (come in against choice locked mon/T-tar etc & SD) and hit off the next turn with an uber hard Bullet Punch which should alleviate a lot of the problems, but yeah, idk how Normal luke would fare any better.

    Regardless this new discovery considerably nerfs any MegaMon dependent on the speed boost. Interesting.
  16. Prophet

    Prophet

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    Oddly, that "oversight" doesn't seem to be the case in-game.

    Or, atleast not in the tutorial battle with Korrina. Out of curiosity, I opted not to mega-evolve and her Lucario transformed and sent me home on a stretcher with the next atttack. Yet when I went along with the battle the right way, I went first and took it out.
  17. Nysyr

    Nysyr

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    Luc will be MegaEvo'd on the Swords Dance anyways, so the lower speed turn 1 is irrelevant.

    The question really is do you want to use Jolly to outspeed Base 96-111, or run adamant for the Extra Power.

    Of note is that without Extreme speed you lose to any faster water type, so I have a feeling Extreme speed with team support is superior overall. Ice punch is pretty worthless since +2 luc will OHKO chomp with CC anyways.
  18. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
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    The only "faster water types" are 3 as of now:-
    Scarf Keldeo, Timid Starmie, Greninja

    And apart from Keldeo's Hydro Pump none of the 3 are nabbing an OHKO on the thing anyways. I'd rather have Crunch as added coverage.
  19. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    Hydro Pump was nerfed, though, so will it still get the KO?
  20. PK Gaming

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    It won't "always" use Swords Dance though. Or more accurately, Lucario will run into situations where it won't always be able to use Swords Dance. If Mega Lucario had it's base 112 speed from turn 1, then it could potentially force out some of the base 108-110 (Latios, weakened Keldeo, Gengar etc) on a revenge kill. That whole extra layer of strategy is gone. Not that i'm complaining though, forcing Lucario to wait a turn before it can abuse its base 112 speed is a fair balancing factor.
  21. Nysyr

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    Really I should have said faster things that resist BP, but water types generally were those that could reliably OHkO Luc on paper. Electrics tend to be frail, Steels slow, Fire weak to SR etc.
  22. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
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    Yeah, only just according to my modified calcs on the 4HP/0SpDef set, which brings the possibility that it might be able to invest a minimal amount in bulk to survive and revenge these respective mons now.

    You needn't. I already got those covered in my original post. Check back.
  23. Tesung

    Tesung

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    I really do think that it needs crunch, as aegislash seems to be one of the biggest threats in the new meta, and once lucario uses ice punch it may as we'll be wearing a sign that it is setup fodder for it. Also, my agilicario idea was terrible, I forgot about its raised speed.
  24. nikovan

    nikovan

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    You could always Mega Evolve on Bullet Punch in a pinch. At least to take out frail Pokemon like Gengar or Alakazam.
  25. Reikai

    Reikai

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    Yes it does. I've been playing online with a Close Combat/Extreme Speed/Stone Edge/Swords Dance set (Not exactly ideal, but I haven't gotten around to breeding a perfect Lucario on XY Just yet), and Aegislash just walls it like no other.

    What would happen if it dropped priority altogether? Would it be viable?

    Close Combat / Ice Punch / Crunch / Swords Dance
  26. Onicon

    Onicon

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    Certainly possible; because of the high speed, Scarf-Tar, Terrakion and Gengar become non-issues. Bullet Punch's usefulness depends on if Mega-Gengar end up staying in OU. Jolly Mega-Lugario is likely to OHKO it with +2 and SR. Should Gengar get the boot, the only thing that's left in the end is Scarf-Terrakion and Alakazam. On the other hand, Crunch gives you a shot at Aegislash and Jellicent.

    For us, it is more a toss up for either Bullet Punch or Crunch. Ice Punch is too useful to pass on in the moment, but my change if the metage changes in the favor of Ghosts.
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