1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Ludicolo (Analysis) [GP 0/2]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by RevolverKnight, Jun 20, 2011.

  1. RevolverKnight

    RevolverKnight

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    [​IMG]

    http://serebii.net/pokedex-bw/272.shtml

    Status: Ready for GP checks

    This is my first analysis, so suggestions/comments would be appreciated

    QC approved: 3/3 (Oglemi, Chou Toshio, Snunch)
    GP approved: 0/2

    [Overview]

    <p>With a great (though small) movepool and fantastic abilities (and awesome typing and STAB's to boot), Ludicolo is a force to be reckoned with in UU as well as OU. The ability to run both Physical and Special based sets as well as SubSeed is not some thing your average pokemon can claim. With blistering speed and the ability to beat bulky Waters, he is one of the best rain abusers in UU. He is not without his flaws though. His Speed is mediocre out of the Rain and depends on Swords Dance is he wants to do any damage physically. Don't let that disuade you from using him though as he is a solid pokemon and a monster on a rain team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance Sweeper
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Rain Dance
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ludicolo has a great movepool that is backed by a decent base 90 Special Attack. In the rain its speed is doubled thanks to Swift Swim and Hydro Pump (Surf can be used, but the power drop is really noticeable) becomes incredbly powerful, making Ludicolo very fast, very powerful Sweeper . The other moves are self explanitory. Giga Drain for a second STAB (and pseudo-recovery) and Ice Beam to deal with Ice weak pokes (i.e. Staraptor, Flygon and Gligar) when you don't have Rain. Rain Dance is simply there to continue you sweep.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Sword Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Seed Bomb / Bullet Seed
    move 4: Rain Dance / Ice Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Despite coming off Ludi's lower (base 70) Atk stat, he can be a potent physical sweeper as well. Taking advantage of the the best attack boosting move in the game (and the only boosting move he learns other than Hone Claws) and his great movepool, this set can be very dangerous. Waterfall is the only decent physical water move he learns (the other being Dive), so it's a must have. The choice between Seed Bomb and Bullet Seed is a personal choice. Seed Bomb offers a reliable move, but Bullet Seed can break Subs your opponent sets up in order to stall out your Rain. Ice Punch can deal with common Ice-weak pokemon, but Rain Dance can help continue you sweep. It is also worth noting that a +2 Waterfall in the Rain (69.89% - 82.24%) is an easy 2HKO on Chansey.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Ludicolo can run the fantastic Ice/Electric/Fighting coverage game (Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, and Drain Punch/Brick Break/Focus Punch). A few other offensive options include Zen Headbutt, Fake Out, Energy Ball/Grass Knot and Focus Blast. On the support side he can set up all the Weathers bar Sandstorm (and can take advantage of all the weathers he sets up to with Blizzard and Solarbeam, if it fits your fancy), and stop SmashPass with Haze as well.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Eviolite Dusclops is probably the best all-around counter to Ludi. With massive defenses and Will-o-Wisp to deal with the Swords Dance set, it is worth carrying a counter to it (or at least something with Knock Off). It's worth noting that Chansey walls you horribly if not using the Swords Dance set (even if you have Drain Punch or Focus Punch). Also, because he depends on the Rain, he doesn't like Hippopotas. This is only a check though, because Hydro Pump and Surf a both OHKO's (100 and 58.97%, respectivly), and a +2 Waterfall is an easy 2HKO. On the Offensive side Raikou is the best counter to Ludi with a 100 accurate Thunder in the rain and the fact that the only ground move Ludi can learn is Mud-slap (20 Base Power, no thank you). Scarfed Staraptor also has the ability to rip you apart</p>


    [Dream World]
    <p>Own Tempo is useless because he learns no self-confuse moves, and even if he did, his other abilities are still better.</p>
  2. Moo

    Moo Professor
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,446
    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker (Rain)
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Rain Dance / Focus Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest / Rash
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Ludicolo has a great movepool and a decent base 90 Special Attack. In the rain its Speed doubles and Hydro Pump gets a massive power boost, making Ludicolo very dangerous. The moves are self explanitory. Rain Dance is used in the last slot to change the weather, but Rain Dance support from Uxie or Azlef is definetily reccomended. Focus Punch can be used to fuck up Chansey (havent calced), use a Rash nature though.

    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Leech Seed
    move 3: Scald / Giga Drain
    move 4: Protect / Toxic / Rain Dance
    item: Leftovers / Damp Rock
    ability: Rain Dish
    nature: Calm
    evs: 232 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    This is basically a clone of the one onsite, but I put the EVs as 252 / 252 because I'm not sure what Ludi can outspeed with a little investment. SubSeed is super annoying because of Ludi's great Special Defense. Scald burns can help it on the physical side too, or Giga Drain can hit bulky waters. Protect means extra Leech Seed and Leftovers damage, but can also scout, or Toxic can poison shit. Rain Dance can be used in the last slot with a Damp Rock to activate rain and Ludicolo's Rain Dish ability. It could also be a very useful mid-game replenisher on a Rain Dance team.


    There's two sets that should get an analysis, although the EVs might need some changing. I'm not really sure about a Swords Dance set because I havent seen it in action.
  3. RevolverKnight

    RevolverKnight

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    144
  4. Xav

    Xav

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    785
    When writing don't use first person (ie. I personally would use Drain Punch because..) you could say "However Drain Punch may be the superior option due to the Focus Punch requiring greater prediction." From the calcs, just using Surf/Hydro Pump seems to do about the same damage and you should always being running something along side Ludicolo to take Chansey/etc anyway.

    Also Focus punch doesn't have a charge up turn.

    The order of the Swords Dance set should be something like this:

    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Seed Bomb / Bullet Seed
    move 4: Drain Punch / Ice Punch

    Good work and good luck
  5. prem

    prem failed abortion
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,774
    even with drain punch, chansey would wall you horribly (ill post calcs later if necessary) just remove those slashes
  6. Moo

    Moo Professor
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,446
    You're supposed to focus punch as it recovers, Hydro Pump in the Rain will bring it into KO range and force it to recover, and it doesnt take 2 turns to charge, it just hits at the end of the same turn.
  7. RevolverKnight

    RevolverKnight

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    Took note/added all suggestions. Thank you all.
  8. prem

    prem failed abortion
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,774
    even that i think all mentions of the fighting moves should be removed, even with focus punch, chansey heals more than your punch, and after the first time you do it it will be much harder to pull off. drain punch should just be removed completely because it is practically useless.

    really chansey just walls ludibro completely, and he has no actual way around it.... so mention fighting types like heracross in team support.
  9. RevolverKnight

    RevolverKnight

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    Added Team Support section and cut Drain Punch
  10. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,184
    Unless you can come up with more convincing reasons to us it, I'd say screw focus punch-- it's not really helping anything.

    There is no "team support" section of an analysis, so take that out. Team support is mentioned in Additional Comments of each set, not given its own section.

    Mention somewhere in the overview that grass/water is awesome typing. :P
  11. Saladbagle

    Saladbagle

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    45
    Rather than Rash, can you use Mild? Lowering his pretty good special defense isn't ideal.
  12. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,184
    No real point in Focus Punch anyway imo >3>
  13. RevolverKnight

    RevolverKnight

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    all added/removed
  14. prem

    prem failed abortion
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,774
    in the SD set its not called psuedo faze. PHaze comes from pseudo haze, so it would just be called using haze
  15. RevolverKnight

    RevolverKnight

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    I think we're ready for for QC checks.
  16. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,184
    I'd say most of these calcs are not important to give really. The only ones worth mentioning (and in commentary, not in a "calcs" section) would be the first set, Hydro Pump having a chance to 3HKO Chansey in rain with SR, and Swords Dance Drain Punch 2HKOing Chansey and Ferroseed (Swords Dance + Rain Support is just very unlikely in most battles).
  17. RevolverKnight

    RevolverKnight

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    Implemented the calcs you suggested into the article itself and got rid of all the other calcs except for the SD Waterfall ones.
  18. RevolverKnight

    RevolverKnight

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    Bump, Ready for QC checks
  19. MysticClaydol

    MysticClaydol

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    39
    Choice Sets ? Specs could be used on the Sweeping set replacing Rain Dance with focus Blast to counter rain teams. Focus Blast hits Ferroseed for Super Effective dammage or a CB set of Waterfall, Ice Punch, Brick Break and Seed Bomb for special walls attempting to threaten the signature Pokémon of Mirror. B
  20. RevolverKnight

    RevolverKnight

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    Since there is no auto-rain in UU, Ludi really can't afford to switch out a lot (fewer Rain Dance turns). If QC thinks it deserves a set, he can get one, though.
  21. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,441
    OK here we go:

    - Slash Timid on the first set. Everything there looks good otherwise. And please just call it Rain Dance Sweeper. No cutesy names in my house.

    - Delete the SubSeed set. Celebi and Exeggutor highly outclass it in that regard. Ludicolo is just sooo slow without Rain Dance, every bird (read: Staraptor) eats it alive, Xatu and Espeon shit on it, anything with Taunt basically rapes it, etc. Yeah I'm not convinced Rain Dish is enough reason to use it, especially since Drizzle doesn't exist in UU.

    - Delete the Drain Punch slash on the SD set. As you listed, a +2 Waterfall 2HKOes Chansey anyway, and Ferroseed is definitely not reason enough to run it. Ice Punch is much more useful. Slash Jolly there too.

    Make these changes and:

    [​IMG]

    QC 1/3
  22. RevolverKnight

    RevolverKnight

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    Made the changes, thanks.
  23. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,184
    QC Approved (2/3)
  24. Snunch

    Snunch
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 8th Official Smogon Tournament

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,074
    QC Approved 3/3
  25. RevolverKnight

    RevolverKnight

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    Thanks all of you, ready for GP checks now.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)