Ludicolo (Special Offense) +

Stellar

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Ok, I thought I would restart this to remove the argument that took place in the other one. All suggestions have been incorporated into this update. I think I compromised and everything should be ok now. Once again, this is mainly just an update to the EVs, first moveslot, and comments of the set.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/ludicolo

[SET]
name: Offensive Rain (Special)
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Grass Knot / Energy Ball
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rain Dance / Focus Punch
item: Life Orb / Damp Rock
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Although Ludicolo is usually looked upon as a defensive Pokemon capable of taking special hits, it does have the ability to sweep due to its 90 base Special Attack, Swift Swim, and powerful STAB options. Surf allows Ludicolo to function more efficiently as a late game sweeper because it does not need to rely on Hydro Pump's 80% accuracy. Hydro Pump in rain OHKOs 4 HP Metagross (hitting those Metagross with max HP for a minimum of 90%) and some Machamp while dealing 92% minimum to 252 HP / 100 SpD Bold Rotom-Appliance. Grass Knot guarantees a 2HKO against bulky Gyarados with Life Orb and has a 67% chance to OHKO offensive Life Orb Suicune; meaning that if Suicune attacks, it will faint. Energy Ball is mainly used so Vaporeon does not stall with Protect and Wish, causing Ludicolo to faint from Life Orb recoil. It should also be mentioned that Energy Ball only 2HKOs Bulky Gyarados with Stealth Rock support. Ice Beam nets a quick OHKO against Salamence and Dragonite who resist Water and Grass. Rain Dance can be used in the last slot if the team needs additional support or if Ludicolo wishes to be a self-sufficient sweeper. If Ludicolo already has Rain Dance support from an outside source, Hidden Power Bug is a decent option because of its ability to OHKO Celebi with Stealth Rock 74% of the time. With 120 Atk EVs, Focus Punch can be used to hit standard Blissey hard, dealing upwards of 74% damage to 0 HP / 252 Def variants. Surf, in rain, inflicts lethal damage when combined with the damage dealt by Focus Punch.</p>

<p>With the specified EVs and nature, Ludicolo reaches 478 Speed after Rain Dance and ties with max Speed Pokemon with base 70 Speed. This allows Ludicolo to outspeed Pokemon with 105 base speed, a positive nature, and Choice Scarf in rain. Maximum Special Attack is a given on a set with such an offensive focus. With an odd numbered HP, Ludicolo can switch into Stealth Rock an extra turn without fainting. When using Focus Punch, a spread of 120 Atk / 252 SpA / 136 Spe is recommended, allowing Ludicolo to KO standard Blissey with Focus Punch and Surf. With 136 Spe EVs, Ludicolo outspeeds +1 neutral base 85 Pokemon in rain.</p>

<p>Life Orb is the preferred item on this set because it secures KOs against many foes with Surf, Hydro Pump, Grass Knot, and Energy Ball. Without Life Orb, Ludicolo loses the guaranteed 2HKO against bulky Gyarados with Grass Knot. Damp Rock boosts the duration of rain and thus the number of turns that Ludicolo benefits from it.</p>

<h3>Grass Knot or Energy Ball?</h3>
<pre>
Grass Knot vs. max HP Milotic 76 - 89%
Energy Ball vs. max HP Milotic: 59 - 71%
Grass Knot vs. 4 HP Suicune: 93 - 111%
Energy Ball vs. 4 HP Suicune: 75 - 89%
Grass Knot vs. 216 HP Gyarados: 56 - 66%
Energy Ball vs. 216 HP Gyarados: 37 - 44%
Grass Knot vs. 188 HP Vaporeon: 51 - 60%
Energy Ball vs. 188 HP Vaporeon: 67 - 79%
</pre>
 
Sorry to bump this, but I've been using this, and someone alerted me to Focus Punch. It deserves a mention on the set next to Rain Dance, with an explanation about how it is a good option with Rain support. Stall teams predictably switch Blissey into Ludicolo all day, and a well-predicted Focus Punch can take quite a bit of her HP.

I ran this spread:

120 Atk / 252 SpA / 136 Spe, Mild Nature

Reaches 210(420) speed in the Rain, still has quite a bit of power. When Blissey switched into a Focus Punch, she took 75% (the calculator I always use isn't working, so can someone verify this?). So basically, Focus Punch + Rain Boosted Surf eliminated Blissey from the field completely.
 

Venom

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Life Orb Mild 120 Atk Focus Punch vs Calm 252 HP / 0 Def Blissey = 143.7% - 169.19%

Life Orb Mild 120 Atk Focus Punch vs Bold 252 HP / 252 Def = 61.9% - 73.11%
 
agreeing that Focus Punch should be mentioned, it was the first thing I though of when I saw this set, and I realised Raikou had bumped it for that reason. Focus Punch will allow you to beat Blissey much more easily, and is an option probably over Rain Dance, which can be provided somewhere else in the team.
 
In the last slot, it should be Rain Dance/Focus Punch. You must mention the alternate EV spread, or make a different set altogether. A bit about how it forgoes Rain Dance support for the team for the option of removing a common wall for opening up other sweepers as team support would be good.
 

Stellar

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Against the "standard" spread listed in the analysis:
Focus Punch: (74.65% - 87.86%)
Surf: (24.12% - 28.57%)

So you have like a .5% chance of not KOing, so it deserves listing. I'll add it and mention the alternate EV spread.
 
Final nitpick Stellar, the 136 Speed EVs outruns Scarf Heatran and neutral Base 90 Scarfers, not just neutral base 85 in the rain :-P!
 

cim

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Life Orb Mild 120 Atk Focus Punch vs Calm 252 HP / 0 Def Blissey = 143.7% - 169.19%

Life Orb Mild 120 Atk Focus Punch vs Bold 252 HP / 252 Def = 61.9% - 73.11%
There is not a single Blissey in existence that runs 0 Defense.
 

Venom

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is a Team Rater Alumnus
There is not a single Blissey in existence that runs 0 Defense.
People like me do...? Why are you supposed to be letting it take physical hits anyways?

cut the shit out, don't spam this thread

[18:59:58] <+RB-Doom> | Blissey | Defense EV | None | 9.8 |
[19:00:06] <+RB-Doom> cause 9.8 is none

lets stop theorymoning ok?
 
And because people realized in DP and Platinum that Bliss needs more special defense EVs, sometimes at the expense of defense ("it shouldn't take those hits anyway").
 
yes blissey needs special defense evs now to prevent stuff like specsluke aura sphere from 2hkoing it so yeah quite a few blisseys now don't run 252 defense anymore
 

Caelum

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yes blissey needs special defense evs now to prevent stuff like specsluke aura sphere from 2hkoing it so yeah quite a few blisseys now don't run 252 defense anymore
Blissey | Defense EV | Max | 86.3

yeah.

Anyway, stop debating Blissey's EV spreads in a thread about Ludicolo.

Mention if the 74% damage is against Calm or Bold variants of Bliss.
 

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