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Ludicolo (Update) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Dat Blast, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

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    EDIT: This is technically my 100th post cuz I had like 95 back on my old account, so yay :)
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    Mexicano

    [Overview]

    An incredibly potent force under rain; only needs a single turn of setup to begin its sweep
    Unique Water/Grass typing that gives it excellent STABs and several handy resistances
    Also has an impressive Special Defense to work with, letting it take a more supportive role instead
    Does not require excessive team support to function
    Metagame is more offensive than ever, and threats like Scolipede making it harder for Ludi to set up
    However, while it’s not as dominant as it once was, it’s still just as powerful

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    Ludi’s signature sweeping set
    Rain Dance lets Ludi support itself and its sweep by doubling its Speed and giving its Water STAB a huge power boost, all in a single turn
    Hydro Pump is the Water STAB of choice, hitting like a truck in the rain
    Giga Drain is its best Grass STAB, punishing bulky Waters and healing Ludi in the process
    Ice Beam provides much-needed coverage against Dragons and Grass-types, as well as achieving perfect neutral coverage across the metagame

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    Surf can be used for the accuracy, but Ludi loses the ability to break through walls like Lickilicky
    Entry hazards work well w/ Ludi, as they help it gain several KOs against certain mons, such as Alomomola (OHKO w/ Giga Drain after SR) and Roselia (2HKO by Ice Beam after SR+1 layer of Spikes)
    Offensive Seismitoad is a good partner, as the two form a powerful offensive core w/ Swift Swim
    Spikers such as Scolipede, Garbodor and Roselia benefit Ludicolo in multiple ways, as they can both set up hazards and absorb Toxic Spikes which are a massive pain to Ludi
    Ludi works well on dedicated rain teams so it doesn’t always have to set up rain itself/it can benefit its teammates as well
    Rain Dance Rotom-S is a good partner w/ the ability to summon rain/beat Roselia and Mantine, two Pokes Ludi struggles with
    In return, Ludi can easily beat Ground-types that Rotom struggles with
    Volbeat is another good partner w/ Prankster Rain Dance and a relatively slow U-turn to make sure it gets in safely
    Modest nature is preferred as it gives Ludi the power needed to break through most special walls, most notably Lickilicky
    Timid nature can be used to outspeed +1 base 100s and higher, but this is somewhat situational and Ludi generally needs the extra power more

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Synthesis
    move 4: Leech Seed
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Rain Dish
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    Focuses more on Ludi's defensive capabilities (80/100 special bulk, Water/Grass typing, Rain Dish)
    Typing and bulk allows it to take on threats like Gorebyss, Samurott w/o Megahorn, Seismitoad, and opposing Ludicolo as well as Eelektross, Rotom-F, and Jynx
    Scald is a good Water STAB w/ a potential burn chance, patching up Ludi's lackluster Defense
    Giga Drain is a reliable Grass STAB that also heals you in the process; hits many rain sweepers (Gorebyss, Seismitoad) hard
    Synthesis is Ludi's most reliable form of recovery/is great for stalling out special attackers
    Leech Seed aids this further/racks up residual damage on the opponent, works in conjunction w/ Giga Drain + Synthesis recovery

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    Has a few other options it can utilize, such as Toxic, Ice Beam and Protect
    Toxic allows you to beat opposing Ludicolo (standard mostly forces a stalemate)
    Ice Beam lets you hit Grass/Dragons, who could otherwise turn you into setup fodder
    Protect allows you to scout/gain extra Lefties recovery
    Ground-types, such as Golem, have good type synergy and can set up SR to whittle down the opposing team
    Garbodor is also a good teammate w/ good synergy/the ability to set up Spikes/Toxic Spikes
    Still loses to certain rain sweepers such as Mantine/Swanna, so an Electric-type is recommended to beat them
    Works best on balance/stall teams looking for a good rain counter, but is fairly niche
    Despite the fact that it has Rain Dish, it's best not to use it on rain teams as they are generally offensive/this set slows down momentum

    [Other Options]

    Swords Dance can surprise many special walls, but requires far too much setup to be effective and is easily walled
    It does have a rather expansive physical movepool, but doesn’t have the Attack stat to back it up
    Can use Sunny Day to abuse SolarBeam and Synthesis better, but Ludi works better in the rain b/c of Swift Swim
    Focus Blast can deal a lot of damage to Normal-types, but in the rain Hydro Pump does even more
    Substitute can block status/ease prediction, but Ludi does not have the room for it
    Ludi’s best options have already been covered; if you’re not using one of the above sets, you shouldn’t be using it at all

    [Checks and Counters]

    Ironically, bulky Ludicolo is a great counter for offensive sets thanks to its typing
    Mantine makes for an excellent counter, as it is immune to Hydro Pump, tanks Giga Drain and Ice Beam with ease and 2HKOes w/ Air Slash
    Roselia counters Ludi fairly well and kills a slightly weakened one easily w/ Sludge Bomb, but cannot switch into Ice Beam stacked w/ hazard damage
    SpD Braviary can even take rain-boosted Hydro Pump at full health and OHKO w/ Brave Bird, but recoil will most likely cause it to kill itself as well
    Jynx is a decent check w/ Dry Skin, but is only 2HKOed by Giga Drain and loses if Sleep Clause is active
    Fast Scarfers such as Zebstrika, Charizard or Tauros can revenge it even in rain, but none can KO it w/o prior damage
    Priority can revenge a weakened one, examples being Kangaskhan’s Fake Out/Sucker Punch combo/Gurdurr’s Mach Punch
    Toxic Spikes are very effective at wearing down Ludi, limiting its sweeping/walling capabilities
    Best way to keep it in check is to prevent it from setting up rain
    W/o rain, it is much slower and much easier to deal with

    [Overview]

    <p>Ludicolo is both a dangerous rain sweeper and a great special wall in NU. When given a single chance to switch in and a single turn to set up, it can shred entire teams to pieces within seconds. Its unique Water / Grass typing only benefits it, giving it excellent coverage, as well as handy resistances, with just its STABs alone. It also has an impressive Special Defense to work with, letting it take a more supportive role if needed. In addition, Ludicolo does not require excessive team support to function, having every tool it needs to sweep or wall right under its belt. Not all is well, though; the metagame is more offensive than ever, with the prevalence of threats like Scolipede making it harder for Ludicolo to come in and set up. This is a problem for Ludicolo as it just isn't fast or strong enough without the rain up.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Ludicolo's signature sweeping set. Rain Dance turns Ludicolo into an offensive terror, doubling its Speed and giving its Water-type STAB an enormous power boost in a single turn. Hydro Pump is Ludicolo's Water-type STAB of choice, hitting like a truck with its high Base Power and boost from rain. Giga Drain is Ludicolo's best Grass-type STAB, punishing bulky Water-types and healing it in the process. Finally, Ice Beam provides much needed coverage against Grass- and Dragon-types, and attains near perfect neutral coverage with Ludicolo's STABs.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Modest nature is preferred, as it lets Ludicolo break down most special walls, most notably Lickilicky. Timid can be used to let Ludicolo outspeed everything up to Timid Choice Scarf Electabuzz in the rain, but this is somewhat situational and Ludicolo generally needs the extra power more. Surf is an alternative to Hydro Pump if accuracy is a problem, but Ludicolo loses out on the ability to break through special walls such as Lickilicky. Entry hazards work well with Ludicolo, allowing it to net several KOs against certain Pokemon; for example, Alomomola is OHKOed by Giga Drain after Stealth Rock, and Roselia is 2HKOed by Ice Beam after Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes. Offensive Seismitoad is a good partner, as it can set up Stealth Rock and forms a powerful offensive core with Ludicolo. Spikes users such as Scolipede, Garbodor, and Roselia also pair well with Ludicolo&mdash;not only do they set up entry hazards, but they absorb Toxic Spikes, which are a massive pain for Ludicolo. Ludicolo performs quite well on dedicated rain teams; not only can its teammates set up rain for it, but it can also provide Rain Dance support of its own. On that note, Rain Dance Rotom-S is a good partner for summoning rain as it beats Mantine and Roselia, two Pokemon Ludicolo tends to struggle against. In return, Ludicolo can make quick work of Ground-types that give Rotom-S trouble. Volbeat is another good partner, possessing Prankster Rain Dance to nearly ensure rain is set up and a relatively slow U-turn to make sure Ludicolo gets in safely.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Synthesis
    move 4: Leech Seed
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Rain Dish
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set focuses more on Ludicolo's defensive capabilities, namely its good special bulk and typing, to become one of the best counters to various special attackers in the tier around. Courtesy of its unique defensive typing, Ludicolo can take on threats such as Gorebyss, Samurott lacking Megahorn, Seismitoad, and opposing Ludicolo with ease. It also manages to check Eelektross, Rotom-F, and Jynx. Scald is a relatively strong Water-type STAB that can inflict a potential burn, which is great for patching up Ludicolo's mediocre Defense. Giga Drain is a reliable Grass-type STAB that also heals Ludicolo in the process and hits many top threats like Samurott, Seismitoad, and Gorebyss hard. Synthesis is Ludicolo's most reliable form of recovery, and works great for stalling out special attackers. Finally, Leech Seed slowly drains the opponent's health and works well in tandem with Giga Drain and Synthesis. This Ludicolo works best on stall and balanced teams looking for a good rain counter, but it's a fairly niche Pokemon and can't just fit onto any team. This is largely due to the offensive nature of most teams in NU, as this set can really slow down momentum.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread allows Ludicolo to outspeed maximum Speed Golem and KO with Scald or Giga Drain after Sturdy is broken. The rest of them focus on its Special Defense. Ludicolo can opt to run maximum Special Defense, but this doesn't really accomplish anything in the long run. Likewise, more Speed EVs can be used, but this detracts from Ludicolo's walling capabilities.</p>

    <p>Ludicolo has a few additional moves it can utilize, including Toxic, Ice Beam, and Protect. Like Leech Seed, Toxic can also be useful in gradually wearing down the opponent; unlike Leech Seed, however, it can target some Grass-types. In a similar vein, Ice Beam provides coverage against said Grass-types, as well as Dragon-types, both of which would otherwise turn Ludicolo into setup fodder. Finally, Protect allows Ludicolo to scout for the opponent's next move and gain extra Leftovers recovery. Because this set forces a lot of switches, entry hazards are recommended to take advantage of that. Ground-types make good choices to set up Stealth Rock, as they share good type synergy with Ludicolo. Spikes users such as Garbodor have good synergy with Ludicolo as well. Garbodor can also provide Toxic Spikes support, which works fantastically with Ludicolo's ability to stall. Finally, an Electric-type, such as Eelektross or Zebstrika, makes for a good partner to beat Mantine and Swanna, two Water-types that Ludicolo loses to.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Due to Ludicolo's expansive physical movepool, a Swords Dance set can come as a big surprise to many special walls, but it's generally inferior to the Rain Dance set. Ludicolo can use Sunny Day to take advantage of SolarBeam and Synthesis, but it is a far better sweeper in rain due to Swift Swim. Focus Blast can be used to hit Normal-types hard, but it is not necessary as Hydro Pump in the rain hits even harder (save for the rare Cloud Nine Lickilicky). Substitute is a viable option to block status and ease prediction, but Ludicolo does not have the room for it. Finally, Damp Rock can be used on the Rain Dance set to extend rain turns, but the extra power from Life Orb is far more important.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ironically, bulky Ludicolo is actually a great counter to offensive variants, as bulky Ludicolo can easily stall the latter out of rain turns. Aside from that, Mantine is an excellent counter as it is immune to Hydro Pump, can comfortably tank Giga Drain and Ice Beam with its titanic Special Defense, and can 2HKO with Air Slash. Roselia counters Ludicolo fairly well, and can KO a slightly weakened one with Sludge Bomb, but it cannot safely switch directly into Ice Beam after a little hazard damage. Specially defensive Braviary can tank even a rain-boosted Hydro Pump at full health and OHKO with Brave Bird. Jynx is a check thanks to Dry Skin; however, it is 2HKOed by Giga Drain and loses if Sleep Clause is active. Fast Choice Scarf users, such as Zebstrika, Charizard, and Tauros, can revenge kill Ludicolo even in the rain, but none can do it without prior damage. Priority can also revenge a weakened Ludicolo, examples being Kangaskhan's Fake Out + Sucker Punch combination and Gurdurr's Mach Punch. Toxic Spikes are also very effective at wearing down Ludicolo, limiting its sweeping and walling capabilities. However, the best way to keep Ludicolo in check is to prevent it from setting up rain, as this leaves it much slower and easier to deal with.</p>
  2. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
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    Okay, implemented (most of) Icecream's check and ready for some new ones! :)
  3. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    First things first, Treecko, tennisace, WhiteDMist, and I decided that we wanted to tweak the Specially Defensive set's EVs a little. We're going with: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe with Calm. 56 Spe EVs allow Ludicolo to outspeed max Speed Golem while not losing much bulk at all. You'll also have to add what the EVs do over in Additional Comments.

    Before I get to checking the Overview, I cannot stress enough that fluff (aka sentences that don't provide any actual information about the Pokemon in the metagame) should be completely left out of the Overview. Before asking for a check, please read it over to make sure this doesn't happen next time. Outside of that your write ups are solid; keep up the good work.

    [Overview]
    • No need for that first little bit in the first sentence. I think it would be better if it just said: Ludicolo is both a dangerous rain sweeper and a great special wall in NU.
    • I don't see a need for the last sentence. I would rather you mention another one of its downsides in that it can be a little too weak or too slow sometimes without rain up.
    [Set Comments] (Rain Dance)
    • I don't like that you mention a transition to BW2. That was a year ago and analysis should be written with everything in the present. Just the first and second sentences while removing the part about it remaining largely unchaged after transition to BW2 thing.
    I think everything else looks muy bien.


    QC Approved 3/3
  4. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
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    Actually, this had already gotten its third QC check, but w/e I guess that's 4/3. Hopefully nothing else needs to be changed and I can move on to GP!
  5. melvni

    melvni
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    GP check. Good job on writing this.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    [​IMG]
  6. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
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    Implemented the check, one more to go! :D
  7. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    [​IMG]GP Check[​IMG]
    ADD
    REMOVE
    COMMENTS


    Great job Dat Blast!

    [​IMG]
    GP Approved 2/2
  8. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
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    Thanks everyone! This is now ready to go onsite! :D
  9. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    now that SCMS is free I can upload! Good job!

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