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Lugia Discussion

Discussion in 'VGC' started by Firestorm, May 21, 2010.

  1. Firestorm

    Firestorm I did my best, I have no regrets!
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    When choosing their two Uber spots, nobody seems to pay any attention to the Great Wall himself, Lugia. Offense is all anyone thinks about when it comes to VGC and with Lugia taking up a restricted spot, it makes it hard to pick him over say Kyogre or Palkia. Not to mention he's weak to both Blizzard and Thunder.

    However, I think his defensive abilities are more than worth taking a look at.

    [​IMG]
    Lugia
    Ability: Pressure
    Viable Natures: Anything +def, +spdef with no defensive loss
    Base HP: 106
    Base Atk: 90
    Base Def: 130
    Base SpAtk: 90
    Base SpDef: 154
    Base Speed: 110

    Moves of Note:
    All Moves: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/lugia/moves

    Aeroblast
    Blizzard
    Brine
    Calm Mind
    Charge Beam
    Double Team
    Dragon Pulse
    Earthquake
    Ice Beam
    Icy Wind
    Light Screen
    Protect
    Recover
    Reflect
    Roost
    Safeguard
    Shadow Ball
    Substitute
    Surf
    Swagger
    Thunder
    Thunder Wave
    Thunderbolt
    Toxic
    Whirlwind

    At 110 Base Speed, there's really no reason to go with a -Speed nature to even attempt to have an advantage in Trick Room. The Singles analyses on Smogon have some Speed to outspeed common threats, but I don't believe you should be trying to outspeed Base 102 Pokemon in the VGC environment. Instead, concentrate on either outspeeding Base 90s or just accepting being a tank instead.

    A Timid Lugia with no Speed EVs will outspeed a neutral speed nature Base 90 with 252 Speed. That means Modest Kyogre, Adamant Groudon, etc. If you don't care about that, use a Calm or Bold Lugia depending on what you want to block.

    The big difference between Singles and Doubles is that Lugia could be getting hit twice per turn. He shrugs off one Blizzard, but two can be a problem.

    252 HP is a must on Lugia in my opinion. For my Timid Lugia, I then put in 228 into SpDef to survive a Abomasnow + Mewtwo Blizzard and Hail residual damage with the rest (28 EVs) in defense to survive one hit from a +6 Swords Danced Shedinja which I was deathly afraid of. I do think hitting that 203 SpDef mark is fairly important, but you can play with the rest as you please. I used a Timid Lugia as that's all I had!

    Lugia loves Leftovers. Use Leftovers unless someone else needs it as Lugia can really take advantage of them.


    Here's mine:
    Lugia @ Leftovers
    Nature: Timid
    252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpDef
    - Calm Mind
    - Double Team
    - Icy Wind
    - Roost

    This was a support Lugia for my Psych Up team. Icy Wind lets my Pokemon outspeed just about anything - like my Smeargle which Dark Voids, and then Lugia can set up during the sleep turns as I switch in a Pokemon with Psych Up to take advantage of the evasion and special boosts.

    Double Team is beaten by Blizzard and Thunder - both very common - so you may prefer something like Protect or a damaging move. You can also remove Icy Wind for a more damaging move as I've found Lugia is often the last Pokemon and needs to take care of a lot by himself. The high PP on Icy Wind is quite useful though. Pressure is an amazing ability bringing down moves like Water Spout to 4 instead of 8.

    Lugia takes hits like a champ. Timid Kyogres only do about half his HP with Thunder or Water Spout. Explosions from Azelf and Bronzong do not OHKO Lugia. Metagross does. Giratina-O I believe can OHKO with Shadow Force, regular Giratina (usually defensively EVed) cannot.

    Try him out and post your own experiences here =)

    Also feel free to create your own discussion topics about other Pokemon so we can get some strategies flowing.
  2. Sixonesix

    Sixonesix
    is a Past SPL Winner

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    I ran with this set for a while:

    Lugia @ Life Orb
    Timid nature
    6 HP, 252 special attack, 252 speed, since changed to 60 HP, 252 special attack, 196 speed
    Aeroblast
    Earth Power
    Substitute
    Roost

    I liked this set because Life Orb Aeroblast OHKOs max HP Abomasnow, Ludicolo, and Hitmontop, and Earth Power 2HKOs Dialga and Metagross. Substitute makes it less vulnerable to Giratina's Shadow Force and Hitmontop's Sucker Punch, and Roost helps a little against Abomasnow and other slower pokemon using Thunder. 196 speed EVs allow it to outpace Jolly Garchomp, but max speed lets it catch Infernape and possibly Gengar off guard.
  3. CCM30

    CCM30

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    People would make my ideas public.

    First I try to use Ursaring and everyone finds out (sort of my fault on that one). Then, I attempt to use Lugia and...ugh...

    Lol, jk. Nah, I do like Lugia. I think it's just that everyone knows how much of a threat he is defensively that they are afraid someone will just double-target him any time he shows up and make him useless.
  4. Firestorm

    Firestorm I did my best, I have no regrets!
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    That's the best part of Lugia. He doesn't give a damn if you double target him :3 He still lives, the other Pokemon leaves unhurt, and he just Roosts back his damage like a champ.

    Critical Hits on the other hand can be a problem if you're not being careful. When using Lugia, I have a tendency to go for a stat up instead of healing even at lower health thinking I'll live. Very risky move in a single elimination environment.

    Remember that crits bypass any defensive boosts you may have!

    I just found out 252 HP + Bold Nature means even Adamant Metagross can't OHKO you with Explosion.
  5. felix

    felix

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
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    435
    I actually had Lugia on my original VGC team, I was running

    Lugia @ Leftovers
    Timid
    (don't quite remember the EVs, I'm sure I had Max HP, and the rest in speed and def)
    Calm Mind
    Aeroblast
    Icy Wind
    Roost

    I had very good results for the most part, he can take a lot of damage. I would have liked to work protect somewhere in there tho.
  6. CCM30

    CCM30

    Joined:
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    Well, I won't comment on any team things in case I go to Newark, but yeah, Lugia can definitely be volatile.

    In my first ever Pokemon tournament, JAA in 2006, I lost in the fourth round with a Lugia. He survived three opponents by himself and was finally left against a Kyogre when time was running out.

    I think I died a little inside that day, because that day I lost with my proud Lugia. Time ran out and the last turn was starting. His Kyogre was in kill range, but my Lugia wasn't. I just had to flick Kyogre and it would faint. But, my Lugia was paralyzed from one of it's Thunders a turn or so earlier.

    So, all I had to do was attack and win. Lugia was faster. Lugia was bound to win...until he attempted to attack and paralysis kicked in. Though Kyogre's Thunder didn't kill Lugia, it left him with 30 HP less than Kyogre, giving my opponent the win.

    Maybe I should avenge my past Lugia with a new one and win it all.
  7. Garaluo

    Garaluo

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
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    80
    Lugia is cool, but I find that it is often easy to faint because of the overpowered ubers running around. Almost any speced uber can easily 1-2HKO. I once saw an interesting Lugia that really messed me up:

    Lugia@Leftovers
    Timid
    EV's:252 HP/?
    Substitute
    Calm Mind
    Aero Blast
    ???(probably roost)

    People often don't think of Lugia as being much of a threat if another more dangerous uber is out, which is what I did. He subed, and gave me some problems.
  8. CCM30

    CCM30

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    Sub Lugia is extremely annoying to play against, especially if its using Icy Wind. Not only is it able to sub up and Roost faster, but it can get more Icy Winds off to allow the rest of its team to become faster than its opponents.

    I had a team in the works with a sub Lugia. It's still enticing, now that I think of it.
  9. Oberon

    Oberon

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    I tried using this for a while, but it didn't end up doing much. I pulled it off ONCE when I ran it paired with Groudon/Weavile/Top. You'd think it would do well, but it ended up making issues for me. lol

    Lugia @ Lum
    Bold
    252 HP/120 Def/96 SpA/40 SpD (hurray bulk)
    Calm Mind
    Recover
    Aeroblast
    Dragon Pulse/Shadow Ball/Psychic

    Of all of the last slot moves I tried, I liked DP and SB the most, DP being a favorite for Palkia/Dialga/Garchomp/etc.
  10. Habitus

    Habitus

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    If think the main reason for Lugia not getting picked are

    For Support Options you have Cress which isn't one of the restricted pokes, is almost as bulky as Lugia and works just as well.

    For Offensive Options most other restricted pokes just perform better, even for Calm Mind sets Giratina seems to be more common as Dragon is just a better STAB than Flying in this meta (thou Flying works well against afair amount of common pokes)

    So basically Cress + 2 Restricted generally works out better than Lugia + 1 Restricted.
  11. Blue_Tornado

    Blue_Tornado

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    252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SDef Timid gives 416 HP / 303 Def / 401 SDef / 281 Speed

    252 HP / 28 Def / 84 SDef / 100 Spe Calm gives 416 HP / 303 Def / 401 SDef / 281 Speed with 46 EVs to spare.

    Giving Lugia a +Def/SDef nature is almost always better unless you want to get to 320+ Speed, since then Timid is a must.
  12. Hectord25

    Hectord25

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    I was using this Lugia:
    Bold Nature
    Ev's 252 SpD, 252 Def
    @Leftovers
    Calm Mind
    Ice Beam
    Icy Wind
    Recover

    It's a great Wall, he can reduce speed with icy Wind and damage the most common Pokémon in VGC, Giratina, Others Lugia, Rayquaza, Groudon, Parasect, deals 50%+ Damage on Smeargle, and Recover off the Damage, absolutely nothing will OHKO Lugia after a Calm Mind, even a Dialga Specs Draco Meteor, i was using it with Shedinja, and both are great partners.
  13. froggy25

    froggy25

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    Wait, what ?

    252 HP / 6 SpDef takes special hits better than 6 HP / 252 SpDef...
  14. Firestorm

    Firestorm I did my best, I have no regrets!
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    That's good information. I really hadn't run too many calcs on it as I only had access to a Timid one. I'll remove the +speed natures from the OP.
  15. Hectord25

    Hectord25

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    Uh, Ok, but having Lum Berry Attached instead of Leftovers...I think 252 SpDef Ev's + Lum berry and not leftovers are better , i'll test it with 252 HP Ev's. An the Bold Nature allows Lugia to take better Psychical Hits, such as Rayquaza Dragon Claw/Outrage, it allows it Survive and OHKO non Yache Berrys Rayquaza with Ice Beam(After a single Calm Mind)
  16. Firestorm

    Firestorm I did my best, I have no regrets!
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Rayquaza should not be a worry. Rayquaza won't do much to a 252 HP Lugia.
  17. Boomguy

    Boomguy

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    Set up Lucky Chant with the defensive stalling Lugia using Mesprit or Mismagius or Clefable maybe
  18. Skippy

    Skippy

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    May 24, 2010
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    Sweeping SubLugia is great. Lugia is one of those oldies that you used to fanboi back in gold/silver/crytal and love using it. Atleast that's me. ;-;
  19. TEA_DEMON

    TEA_DEMON

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    Lugia is a pretty solid Swagger lead, since it can take a few hits and make sure it gets that Swagger off. Helps to use a Fake Out lead with it (I've been using Purugly on my lulzy Swagger team). It's also nice how you can smash the fuck out of Abomasnow with STAB Aeroblast.

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