Project Lure that Threat V2

Status
Not open for further replies.

TPP

is a Tournament Directoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
Head TD
Originally approved by AM
Taken over from Miridy who took it over from unfixable



Co-Hosted with AD impish john
Welcome Smogonites! We all know what are Lures and what they do, specific pokemon that run an unexpected move or moveset in order to weaken or directly ohko a specific threat, and pave the way for another sweeper, having said that though, there isn't that much of a focus on lures in the OU Forum, and a good deal of lures used by battlers aren't really that optimal, this project tries from a competition to see what the ingenuity of people can come up with, and, hopefully; improve the Teambuilding aspect we have at the moment, without further adeu, here are the rules:

1. Each week I'll nominate a threat (with their moveset) during the following week the community will nominate their lures in order to handle said threat or wall, of course Damage Calcs (under an Hide Tag) are appreciated

2. Each person is allowed 1 Lure per week, and I'd personally prefer it if people don't copy other lures from that week. The more original the better. Ex: Seeing 5 lures with Poison Jab to lure Clefable.

3. After the week has passed, I will pick the top 2 lures as winners and one that'll get an honorable mention (this number might increase depending on the number of lures submitted that week). Additionally, I'll allow voting on the weekends to give us a 3rd winner and the Runner up will be placed in the Honorable mentions. I'll pick the top 2 cores AFTER the voting has ended to avoid picking the same one. Each person is allowed 2 votes and a line of reasoning as to why you voted for that one as well.

Name of Lure - reasoning
Name of other Lure - reasoning


4. The winners and their lure will be saved and recorded.

HOWEVER, keep this in mind; when you post a lure:

1. Does this Pokemon have to sacrifice anything important? If you're losing a key part of a set just for an uncommon threat that isn't even lured in that is what we call a "bad lure", always consider what you give up in order to lure something, that is very important.

2. Does this Pokemon gain anything important when using this moveset? The contrary to point number one, does this pokemon or the team benefit from the lure.

4. Could this method be better aided through teammates? Does your lure need team support to carry out it's role effectively.

Important:
Example of a bad lure:


Gengar @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Taunt

This set wants to act as Bisharp and Scarf Tyranitar, too bad that its KOed by Sucker Punch anyway, and Crunch from Scarf Tyranitar has a good damage roll after Stealth Rocks, even if Colbur Berry halves the power of these move. You can't rely on it, and the power loss from Life Orb is too much from Gengar's usefulness and really Focus Blast will always miss


Example of a good lure:


Keldeo @ Roseli Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Icy Wind

This set can act as a lure against Mega Diancie, without giving up too much from Calm Mind Keldeo, thanks to roseli berry keldeo can take a Moonblast and kill it with Scald, even at +0, paving the way for something like DD Roost Zard X, Mega Pinsir etc.


 
Last edited:

TPP

is a Tournament Directoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
Head TD














 
Last edited:

TPP

is a Tournament Directoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
Head TD
Week 1 Special Defensive / Stallbreaker Talonflame

Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Special Defensive Talonflame, also known as the Stallbreaker Talonflame is a unique set as it takes a highly offensive mon, and turns it into a fairly good defensive one. This spread is able to check Zard Y, Mega Altaria, and it's able to prevent slower mons from using status moves with Taunt while burning them back. Acrobatics prevents recoil damage so Talonflame is able to stay stay healthy while dealing damage, and it's also able to take less from Knock Off.​
 

Serperior (M) @ Coba Berry
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Glare​

The set I presented in my RMT (link in sig for those interested !), it does a fantastic job at luring Talonflame

Coba Berry allows Serperior not to die to Flying stabb :

0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Coba Berry Serperior: 114-135 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Talonflame will usually comes on a Leaf Storm, so you will be at +2 when using HP Rock :

252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 33-39 (9.1 - 10.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+2 252 SpA Serperior Hidden Power Rock vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 332-392 (92.4 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

There are 2 possibilities, either your opp has the set presented and then it's 100% OHKO thanx to the lack of Leftovers or it has Brave Bird and then the recoil will put it in the KO range. Or it will roost, but even then, it can't really take so much hits (not to mention you can raise higher your spatk by Leaf Storming on Roost) :

+2 252 SpA Serperior Hidden Power Rock vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Roosted Talonflame: 166-196 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Last edited:
ya only need one move


Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 232 HP / 20 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stone Edge

20 atk w/ neutral nature guarantees the ohko. rest of the moves could be whatever u want. do whatever u want with the evs i just put some into sdef and hp lol.

relevant calcs:
20 Atk Heatran Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 360-424 (100.2 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 

Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

People usually expect the Dragon STAB in that slot, but Stone Edge is still a good option, as it can lure in not only Talonflame, but also do some good damage to Skarmory and Togekiss, which also like coming in on this particular Garchomp set. Plus EdgeQuake is still pretty good coverage in this meta. All of this is assuming, of course, Stone Edge actually hits.

Calc for posterity, although everybody knows this:
252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 580-684 (161.5 - 190.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also, for what it's worth, Outrage misses the OHKO unless rocks are already up:
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 261-307 (72.7 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Last edited:

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams


Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Roost

Facade Altaria is one of the ways Altaria can lure in SpD Talonflame. Mega Altaria can use Dragon Dance twice, get burned, and beat Talonflame with a +2 Facade, which will always OHKO if Altaria is Adamant (and OHKO 81% of the time if Jolly)

Calc:
+2 252 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 349-411 (97.2 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus

Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 152 Atk / 180 SpA / 176 Spe
Naive Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Earthquake / Focus Blast
- Rock Slide

Mega Sceptile's standard set is stopped cold by SpD Talonflame, Dragon Pulse dealing 45% at most. However, Rock Slide can actually OHKO Talonflame with some attack investement, enabling Sceptile to lure it :

152 Atk Mega Sceptile Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 360-424 (100.2 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Last edited:

Scotti

we back.

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

When defensive chomp actually wins against stall breaker flame. I usually use defensive chomp as a sd tflame check, but because of that i forget that I lose to the stallbreaker set. So what I do is add stone edge over fire blast or toxic, and bam I have a way to win against tflame. It also helps against mega pinsir, mega charizard y, gyarados, torn-t, thundy-i, and togekiss(mostly cause togekiss sets up on this thing). It actually comes in handy a lot more than I thought it was. This set is also different than michael sets, because its obviously defensive chomp. Although you could say his set lures tflame; he does have lum and sd, so you could easily force it out with dragon stab or kill it after the will-o-wisp. Also most tflame would taunt first trying to prevent rocks which means, he gets free sd or rocks. Stone Edge just makes it easier to kill tflame and set up rocks after, while mine is a more all game check and lure.

0 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 476-564 (132.5 - 157.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk burned Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 238-282 (66.2 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk burned Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 178-211 (49.5 - 58.7%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Bisharp + Lum and Taunt/ Rock Tomb
*If you're looking for some real heat, try rollout amoonguss*


Bisharp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Taunt
-Swords Dance
-Iron Head
-Knock Off

This Bisharp set effectively lures Talonflame by absorbing the will-o-wisp with its lum berry and proceeding to use Taunt. As a result, Talonflame has no status or recovery, and can only use Acrobatics against Bisharp. Bisharp is then free to use Talonflame as set-up fodder. It enables Bisharp to quickly overpower defensive teams after the boost as well as slower balance teams.

Alternatively, Sucker Punch can be used over Knock Off to beat offensive teams, but any faster Pokemon that resist Iron Head can easily set up a sub or status Bisharp (if the lum is no longer intact).

Try using this Bisharp on a team where faster threats are handled, as this set functions similarly to Lum SD Garchomp in that it is effective at punching holes in status-based defensive cores but struggles against faster threats.

Edit: I found another fun trick that our chess piece has access to:

Bisharp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Rock Tomb
-Iron Head
-Knock Off
-Swords Dance/ Sucker Punch

This functions the same way as the above set does, but instead of reducing Talonflame to set-up fodder, it just OKHO's it outright. As for the other moves, they're standard, but SD vs Sucker Punch comes down to what the rest of the team needs. The reason I chose Rock Tomb over Stone Edge is that Rock Tomb has much better accuracy, is still a guaranteed OHKO with an adamant nature, and helps improve Bisharp's matchup against faster pokemon should they switch in. This allows Bisharp to go for an Iron Head/ Knock Off instead of playing games with Sucker Punch. However, if a jolly nature is non-negotiable then Stone Edge will work just fine.

252+ Atk Bisharp Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 372-440 (103.6 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Not bad.
 
Last edited:

Knuckstrike

Hi I'm FIREEEE
is a Tiering Contributor

Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 152 Atk / 180 SpA / 176 Spe
Naive Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Earthquake / Focus Blast
- Rock Slide

Mega Sceptile's standard set is stopped cold by SpD Talonflame, Dragon Pulse dealing 45% at most. However, Rock Slide can actually OHKO Talonflame with some attack investement, enabling Sceptile to lure it :

152 Atk Mega Sceptile Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 360-424 (100.2 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 276-326 (98.2 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
??
 


Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Ancient Power

Talonflame would be recognized as a counter, but thanks to Ancient Power, Charizard Y is able to always win the 1v1
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 276-328 (76.8 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame in Sun: 143-168 (39.8 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 133-157 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO
 


Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
- Toxic
- Roost

eh not sure if reasoning needed but yeah. i mean the lure move is generally pretty clear...lum reg sciz can be used too.
 
Last edited:


Volcarona @ Coba Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power Rock

Volcarona can Quiver Dance up as Talonflame switches in, survive the Brave Bird with Coba Berry and OHKO back with Hidden Power Rock. It also has the bonus of hitting Tornadus-T, Charizard and Gyarados hard without resorting to Fire Blast.
 

Career Ended

Whatever happens, happens
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris the defending Other Metas Circuit Champion

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind / Stealth Rock
- Thunderbolt / Toxic / Magic Coat


Spdef Talonflame is arguably the best 'Counter' to everyones favorite pink blob. However like with all pokemon clefable beats it 1v1. If you run Tbolt + CM a +1 Tbolt has a chance to 2hko. Toxic on the switch in completely cripples talon. Magic coat on their taunt to continue to set up. Clefable has many ways to deal with talon. Also with Shed stall running around on the ladder its hard to get up rocks vs it while they have their talon. If you run toxic clefable 6-0s that team.
The Fab CE

Relevant Calcs:
+1 0 SpA Clefable Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 170-200 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 112-134 (31.1 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

Patolegend!

Fan of 1000 Arrow 'Slash
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus


Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Ancient Power

Talonflame would be recognized as a counter, but thanks to Ancient Power, Charizard Y is able to always win the 1v1
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 276-328 (76.8 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame in Sun: 143-168 (39.8 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 133-157 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO
If it has taken any damage whatsoever (Rocks, Fire Blast, etc) Talon Roost stalls out Ancient Power with ease and then deals with no recovery CharY handily. If it hasn't taken any damage, it eats up the first Ancient Power and then stalls you out.
 
If it has taken any damage whatsoever (Rocks, Fire Blast, etc) Talon Roost stalls out Ancient Power with ease and then deals with no recovery CharY handily. If it hasn't taken any damage, it eats up the first Ancient Power and then stalls you out.
just give it Hidden Power Rock
 

TPP

is a Tournament Directoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
Head TD
just give it Hidden Power Rock
You're missing the point. Roost removes the flying type, so Ancient Power is only gonna hit as 2X instead of 4X, so you're doing less damage than you think. With Leftovers + Roost, Talonflame can recover 11-18% (Leftovers is 6% I think) and Ancient Power only has 8 PP, so if you can't get a boost, then you can't kill it at all.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 138-164 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
You're missing the point. Roost removes the flying type, so Ancient Power is only gonna hit as 2X instead of 4X, so you're doing less damage than you think. With Leftovers + Roost, Talonflame can recover 11-18% (Leftovers is 6% I think) and Ancient Power only has 8 PP, so if you can't get a boost, then you can't kill it at all.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 138-164 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I got that, but as Patolegend said, Talonflame can stall Ancient Power, having only 8 pp, but not Hidden Power Rock, which has 24.
 

Unlucky Desperado

Banned deucer.


Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Ancient Power

Talonflame would be recognized as a counter, but thanks to Ancient Power, Charizard Y is able to always win the 1v1
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 276-328 (76.8 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame in Sun: 143-168 (39.8 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 133-157 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO
How about EQ over Focus Blast to keep Roost? You can still hit Tran and also Talon when you force it to Roost. Not having Roost on Zard Y can be a problem and limit its effectiveness
 

MrAldo

Hey
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Something I had to dig up from certain thread:



Scizor @ Micle Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off / Superpower
- U-turn / Swords Dance
- Natural Gift

Talonflame is like one of the safest switch-ins to like any scizor... except this one. Pair it with something to bluff the mega cause you aint bluffing band when people have the damage output memorized to hell and back. Then have some fun.

252+ Atk Micle Berry Scizor Natural Gift (100 BP Rock) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 632-748 (176 - 208.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Micle Berry burned Scizor Natural Gift (100 BP Rock) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 316-374 (88 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

AM Edit: AAAAAA????!!?!??
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Stolen from Albacore



Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Mega Altaria can Dragon Dance as Talonflame comes in, then OHKO it with Outrage. This also allows it to beat Mega Venusaur, Fire-types and Poison-types. Earthquake allows Mega Altaria to get past Bisharp and Heatran which walls this set otherwise.
 

TPP

is a Tournament Directoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
Head TD
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top