1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Machoke

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by breh, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,185
    [​IMG]

    [Overview]
    <p>Although Machoke lacks the wonder of Drain Punch that Gurdurr holds, it has access to its own STAB move of choice - DynamicPunch - which has an interesting secondary effect - forced confusion. This gives Machoke, which already possesses high Attack and a Defense that is made quite formidable by Eviolite, the ability to handily take down most non-Ghost-type Pokemon. Unfortunately, Machoke is not the champ - it lacks instant recovery like its cousin, Gurdurr, leaving it with an unfortunate inferiority complex.</p>

    [SET]
    name: ResTalk
    move 1: DynamicPunch
    move 2: Payback
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Eviolite
    Ability: No Guard
    Nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>DynamicPunch with perfect accuracy, simply put, is one of the best possible STAB moves in the metagame; with it, Machoke creates situations where it wins against incredibly strong opponents as a result of the forced confusion. Payback is not particularly strong, but provides good coverage with DynamicPunch and is Machoke's strongest move against Misdreavus, Haunter, and most Psychic-types. Rest and Sleep Talk pair together to give Machoke the instant recovery it so desperately desires - the former restores HP while the latter ensures that Machoke is not a sitting duck while asleep. Sleep Talk also has the fortunate effect of conserving DynamicPunch's meager 8 PP.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs maximize Attack and HP; the rest are put into Special Defense. Maximum Defense can be used in place of the Attack to trade power for bulk, allowing Machoke to take Brave Birds that it usually cannot; for example, Swellow's Guts-boosted Brave Bird does not OHKO a Machoke with heavy Defense investment. Eviolite is the obvious item of choice, providing a huge boost to Machoke's already decent defenses. Rock Slide and Ice Punch both have perfect coverage with DynamicPunch; thus, either can be used over Payback. Machoke pairs well with anything that fears physical sweepers, Pokemon that Machoke can usually bypass with ease. Mesprit is a particularly good choice - the main Pokemon that threatens it, Absol, tends to struggle against Machoke unless it carries Psycho Cut. Clerics like Miltank or Lickilicky are also useful to have around to heal Machoke from sleep. Because Machoke does not fare too well against Psychic-types, Pokemon like Skuntank that can eliminate them are great teammates. The same can be said of Swellow, which eliminates defensive Misdreavus; Machoke can also easily take the Rock-type moves it draws in.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Bulk Up is a fantastic stat-boosting move, but forces Machoke to sacrifice much needed moveslots - Rest and Sleep Talk are nearly mandatory moves and, with them, Machoke only has one attack. Encore is an interesting move that pairs well with Substitute, but creates the same problem as Bulk Up. Bullet Punch is Machoke's sole priority move, but lacks power. Cross Chop has a greater chance of critical hits, but is otherwise inferior to DynamicPunch. Choice Band is tempting, but Machoke is neither fast like Sawk nor a holder of strong STAB priority like Gurdurr, meaning that it is outclassed by other Pokemon that run a Choice Band set. Knock Off lets Machoke remove an item - especially a valuable Eviolite - from its foe. Toxic is a move that fits all Pokemon to dismantle walls; Machoke is one of many that has access to it.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Psychic-types, especially Mesprit and Duosion, leave Machoke in a state of helplessness and force it to flee. Although Kadabra cannot take any hits, it can also OHKO Machoke. Misdreavus's bulk and Ghost typing allow it to force Machoke into stalemate with Sleep Talk. Without the benefit of Leftovers recovery, Spikes can wear Machoke's health down quite quickly. If Machoke is not running maximum Defense, Braviary and Swellow comfortably OHKO Machoke with Brave Bird. Swanna can OHKO Machoke with Hurricane, which even has perfect accuracy due to No Guard. Golbat laughs at Machoke's pitiful attempts at damage and wins in the end, barring luck from DynamicPunch's confusion. Garbodor, which Machoke can only hit with weak non-STAB moves, turns Machoke into a setup opportunity if confusion does not strike. In general, Trick and Knock Off neuter Machoke and make it far less troublesome by removing its Eviolite.</p>
  2. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Messages:
    546
    I use a spread of 252 HP and 252 Atk which still has good defenses and is quite powerful. I think this spread deserves a mention.
    Machoke is such a boss in this tier
  3. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,185
    added that to AC and agreed.
  4. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
    I'd quite like to see a more offensive set. Something like:

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Dynamicpunch
    move 2: Payback / Rock Slide
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Toxic / Encore
    item: Eviolite
    Ability: No Guard
    Nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
  5. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,256
    ^ that. I'm not really sure if Machoke should be trying to take Brave Birds from at any rate - and honestly when I play against Machoke I'm far more worried about its Dynamicpunch than its defensive capabilities.
  6. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,185
    so should I remove the listed set entirely or should I make that one the first?
  7. EonADS

    EonADS

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    490
    No. RestTalk Machoke has plenty of utility. Although personally I'd run Ice Punch over Payback and run 252 Hp / 252 Atk instead of maxing defenses.
  8. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Messages:
    546
    No, Imo the listed set is the best except I like 252 Hp/252 Atk best
    Who cares about ice punch when you have Dynamic Punch? Payback is required to hit Ghosts so it should get first preferance.
    Machoke is quite bulky and Rest gives him recovery which I have found very useful.
    But the biggest drawcard of ResTalk Imo is that Dynamic Punches pp runs out all too quickly which is where sleep talk comes in, it may be unreliable but if the opponent gets unlucky in confusion, you may be waking up pretty quickly. Also its a good idea to run a cleric if you find Machoke to be too sleepy
  9. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,185
    Soo... which do I use? Do any QC members want to weigh in on this?
  10. tennisace

    tennisace ium's avatar is his butt on my face
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,927
    Use the 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def spread.
  11. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Messages:
    546
    You could just have both sets, Restalk and Tank
  12. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,185
    ok, switched the two spreads; 252 Def is now AC and 252 Atk is now the main spread. keeping restalk.
  13. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Messages:
    546
    The set name should be changed to Resttalk and the Nature to Adamant, and mention that Sleep Talk can help with Dynamic Punches PP issues
  14. Spork

    Spork

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    409
    Inefficient EVs, 252 HP 144 Atk 72 Def Adamant yields you the same stats with 36 EVs left over. I presume you'd want to invest them in Attack?

    Merry Christmas
  15. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,185
    fixed, lol; this is what happens when I ignore things I shouldn't.
  16. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,172
    Toxic deserves a mention in OO just because Slowking, Mesprit and Missy laugh at you. Ice Punch also deserves a mention for hitting Roselia and Altaria. I personally love No Guard + Cross Chop's high crit rate, it could make an OHKO out of nothing. Choice Band should also be mentioned in OO, confusion gives it something that Sawk can't do. Not much else this guy can do though.
  17. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
    I'd really like to see a Sub set because it's useful and ENCORE IS EPICSAUCE and stuff. ResTalk should be the first set, though. What does everyone think?

    Max Def is valuable not for taking Brave Birds (although that's nice, I suppose), but for checking / countering the likes of Klinklang and Torterra.
  18. tennisace

    tennisace ium's avatar is his butt on my face
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,927
    I think Sub + Encore is OO, though it is pretty good. This is good as-is though. If someone wants to test Sub + Encore it can just be written as a separate set later.

    [​IMG]
  19. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
  20. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
  21. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,185
    written
  22. Badal

    Badal Shit
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,911
    This isn't ready for GP yet. You need to expand on all the sections. Write in detail about everything! The analysis is too skimpy. Especially the Checks & Counters, Set Comments and Other Options
  23. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,185
    ok, I tried to add to this.
  24. Badal

    Badal Shit
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,911
    remove
    add
    {comments}
    copypastable (open)


    [Overview]
    <p>Although Machoke lacks the wonder of Drain Punch that Gurdurr holds, it has access to its own STAB move of choice - DynamicPunch - which has an interesting secondary effect - forced confusion. This gives Machoke, which already possesses a high Attack and a Defense that is made quite formidable by Eviolite, the ability to take down non-Ghost-type Pokemon. Unfortunately, Machoke is not the champ - it lacks instant recovery like its cousin, Gurdurr, leaving it with an unfortunate inferiority complex.</p>

    [SET]
    name: ResTalk
    move 1: DynamicPunch
    move 2: Payback
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Eviolite
    Ability: No Guard
    Nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>DynamicPunch with perfect accuracy, simply put, is one of the best possible STAB moves in the metagame - Machoke creates situations where it wins against incredibly strong opponents, as a result of the forced confusion. Payback is not particularly strong, but provides good coverage with DynamicPunch and is Machoke's strongest move against Misdreavus, Haunter, and most Psychic-types. Rest and Sleep Talk pair together to give Machoke the instant recovery it so desperately desires - the former restores HP while the latter ensures that Machoke is not a sitting duck while asleep. Sleep Talk also has the fortunate effect of conserving DynamicPunch's meager 8 PP.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs maximize Attack and HP, and the rest are put into Special Defense. Maximum Defense can be used in place of the attack, to trade bulk for power, allowing Machoke to take Brave Birds that it usually cannot; for example, Swellow's Guts-boosted Brave Bird does not OHKO a Machoke with heavy Defense investment. Eviolite is an obvious item of choice, since it provides a huge boost to Machoke's already decent defenses. Rock Slide and Ice Punch both have perfect coverage with DynamicPunch, thus either can be used over Payback. Machoke pairs well with anything that fears physical sweepers, since Machoke can get past them with ease. Mesprit is a particularly good choice - Absol tends to struggle against Machoke unless it carries Psycho Cut. {i'm not too sure the last sentence makes too much sense, you should probably rephrase it}</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Bulk Up is a fantastic stat-boosting move, but forces Machoke to sacrifice much needed moveslots - Rest and Sleep Talk are nearly mandatory moves and, with them, Machoke only has one attack. Encore is an interesting move that pairs well with Substitute, but creates the same problem as Bulk Up. Bullet Punch is Machoke's sole priority move, but lacks power. Cross Chop has a greater chance of critical hits, but is otherwise inferior to DynamicPunch. Choice Band is strong - the power of simultaneous damage and confusion is great - but Machoke is neither fast like Sawk nor a holder of strong STAB priority like Gurdurr, meaning that it is outclassed by other Pokemon that run a Choice Band set. Knock Off lets Machoke remove an item - especially a valuable Eviolite - from its foe. Toxic is a move that fits all Pokemon to dismantle walls; Machoke is one of many that has access to it.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Psychic-types, especially Mesprit and Duosion, leave Machoke in a state of helplessness, and force it to flee. Although Kadabra cannot take any hits, it can also OHKO Machoke. Misdreavus ignores Machoke due to its bulk and Ghost typing and forces it into stalemate with Sleep Talk. Without the benefit of Leftovers recovery, Spikes can wear Machoke's health down quite quickly. If Machoke is not running maximum defense, Braviary and Swellow comfortably OHKO Machoke with Brave Bird. Swanna can OHKO Machoke with Hurricane, which even has perfect accuracy, due to No Guard. Golbat laughs at Machoke's pitiful attempt at damage and, barring luck from DynamicPunch's confusion, wins in the end. Garbodor, Which Machoke can only hit with weak non-STAB moves, turns Machoke into a setup opportunity if it is lucky with confusion. In general, Trick and Knock Off neuter Machoke and make it far less troublesome by removing its Eviolite.</p>


    [​IMG]
    GP 1/2
  25. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,185
    Ok, edited in most of those changes bar a few commas that were unnecessary (or should have been replaced with semicolons). Thanks Badal!

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)