Andy Snype
Mr. Music
Nothing really special.
Comments overall (Snype):
The idea behind this game was to make a small game that forced players to be independent on their own. So Spoon and I made this a basically all-neutral game as that was the simplest way to make people be independent and get their shit done if they wanted to win. We cut down the playerlist to 20 as opposed to 25 as people were inactive and we didn’t want to risk inactivity (which still happened, but I’d rather have 4/20 inactive as opposed to 8/25). This game was mostly experimental to try out “what if... concepts”
Most of the roles in the game were crapshoots. We aimed to make this a diplomacy-based game rather than a mafia game because a lot of this game focused on individual actions and we wanted to minimize damage. The biggest threat I could see coming was the village leader system, which I hate as it just promotes people being lazy and being away. Thus, the neutrals were designed to keep people on their feet and they were given a reasonably difficult win condition with only the tool of an every-night kill and a pseudo-mayor. They weren’t given any safeclaims at all. What I didn’t see about the wolves was that they would be the ultimate kingmakers. The design idea was from an old Wumpus lab I had to make for programming and was something pretty simple for people to figure out. They didn’t have anyone needing them dead as we figured it was already hard enough to allow only 5 people to win. Lesson learned.
I didn’t want kills being too frequent as this was a small game after all and I wanted to force players to make their independent negotiations. As a result, the night lynch was introduced so players could continually have the option to backstab their partners they were with and have dealings in secret as I hoped people would realize that with the mutual-enemy system that as their enemies died first, the responsibility for the target’s death fell more so upon that individual.
The roles were also pretty unbalanced as some people had kidnappers and 3-vote mayors with LPVs and others were reduced to trackers and watchers. We tried to balance this by giving the worse-off players needing other worse-off players dead and the more powerful roles have other powerful roles dead. The idea with the smaller roles was that people would use these roles to determine who X is really working with. In retrospect, these should have been some side abilities rather than whole abilities mixed with an IPV, a LPV, or a BPV. The game didn’t really progress to that level as the only manipulator in the game was HD, so I tended to overestimate.
Overall, the game was an experiment, and while some aspects failed and could be interpreted as counterproductive to a competitive environment (zorbees played pretty well and could've won: the wolves should've had a character oppose them instead), I think some parts could be reintroduced in a future game.
On to the player comments
General Spoon's comments will be shown like this
Andrew's comments will be shown as this.
dogfish44 - Jack Sparrow - Safeguard and every 3rd night hooker - Lynched Day 1
First casualty.
Yeah, not much to really say. He was the first target that a mass of players united, which we will refer to as the Spock Alliance. They found this out via an inspect, and was promptly lynched.
Unfortunately, he was the alias that was randtargeted for an inspect after Spock had amassed to their large size, and once they had found him to be an enemy to their alliance, they all lynched him. He did try to set up an alliance, but most of the leftover players were too paranoid to unite this early.
Flamestrike - Eric Cartman - Reverse Martyr - Killed Night 1
He got a fairly large alliance together early in the game. Then he was nightkilled by Paperblade and Quagsires. I was sad to see it happen. The alliance that he put into place dominated the earlygame. This alliance included himself, Goldenknight, Galladiator, auramaster, Maniacal Lemon/Empoof, and Yeti.
The guy that got together the alliance was unfortunately the N1 Kill target of Paperblade/quagsires.
This was the N1 kill target as a result of the wolf duo, which was meant to balance out any big alliances. Paperblade was on the side that was more trusted by #spock and was able to learn some of these names. I don’t recall how they got his alias though. Flamestrike’s role was one of those roles that revolved around being a team player. No bodyguards in the game meant that all he had to do was earn the trust of the wolves, which sadly did not work out very well, especially since he was trying hard to convince Paperblade, who had suggested the target to dogfish iirc that dogfish’s target was a bad idea, though Paperblade himself suggested the counterlynch target.
loudkirbyking - Barack Obama - LPV and triple mayor - Lynched Day 2
I had thought this would be a rather scary role. Then it got lynched off right away.
loudkirbyking started to make an alliance of sorts, though I think he only really had Dummy007 in it. I was astonished that this role died so early.
This role we envisioned would be a more late-game role when alliances mattered. Even after Spock tried to lynch him during the night, the key factor that led to his death was auramaster convincing smashlloyd20 to vote for him. I intended for lkk and smash’s roles to work as an anti-large alliance to dominate. What I unfortunately did not see was the large alliance to amass by the end of n0.
We had predicted this role to be more influential as it would be a terror to unite against. We didn’t expect the large enough alliance to be happening this early, as this was a threat everyone in #spock would have to unite early enough. This was another pseudo-anti-big-alliance role that we had thought would happen. Obviously no night actions as there weren’t many vote-influencing roles and in the late-game, this player could win in the end-game.
Layell - Vito Corleone - Safeguard - Lynched Night 2
An early member of Walrein’s Aquanauts. I believe that he was lynched because people thought his alias was HD’s.
Another one of #spock’s targets. This was one of the people who iirc HD had betrayed to Empoof in his effort to win and stay alive. I don’t think that HD knew that Empoof was a part of #spock though. Layell was a known enemy of #spock anyway, and his death was sadly inevitable. All they needed was his alias, which HD gave them.
auramaster - Jake Hunter - Role/Smogon name inspector and hooker - Lynched Day 3
auramaster was a member of Flamestrike’s alliance. Walrein had it out for auramaster from very early on, learning from some source I’ve since forgotten what the alias of auramaster, his enemy, is. The Aquanauts managed to finally lynch him on day 3, thereby beginning their dominance.
auramaster was an active member of #spock, doing what he could to contribute to #spock’s victory. Unfortunately, this was the point where all people not in #spock were able to unite and lynch #spock. At this point, #spock had lost its dominance and Walrein’s Aquanaut alliance was beginning to take over. He did, though, collaborate with another user and swapped role PMs very early, leading them both to be NOC kidnapped for a cycle iirc.
Galladiator - Dick Cheney - Kidnapper - Killed Night 3
A member of Flamestrike’s alliance. His alliance traded his alias to zorbees to learn Walrein’s alias. This led directly to Galladiator’s death.
The wolf duo targeted another one of #spock, and such led to Galladiator’s death.
smashlloyd20 - The Doctor - Announcer and mayor - Lynched Day 4
I believe that smash mostly went his own way most of the game, and got lucky that two of his enemies died without much effort on his part. The Aquanauts lynched him because the last player smash needed dead was HD, an Aquanaut.
Not much to really say about smash since he sorta did his own thing, and I didn’t really have much contact with him. He was close to winning, but since he didn’t have the right allies, HD was able to lynch him.
zorbees - Adrian Monk - Smogon name inspector and BPV - Lynched Night 4
zorbees went his own way for most of the earlygame, before being picked up by the Aquanauts. He had worked it out to win on night 3 by having the wolves nightkill Galladiator, while the Aquanauts lynched DarkPenguin67. Unfortunately for zorbees the lynch ended in a tie that could have been prevented if either Aquanaut Maxim had voted, or if the wolves hadn’t voted against the Aquanauts. Paperblade and Quagsires told Walrein that he needed to lynch either zorbees or TalkingLion, and Walrein chose to off zorbees.
This guy was set to win as most of his enemies were dead and had he lived, I think his third enemy would’ve died. Unfortunately, this conflicted with Quag/PBlade’s interests as TalkingLion was also on the verge of winning, which threatened Quagsires and Paperblade’s win condition, which forced the duo to give Walrein an ultimatum, and Walrein decided on zorbees. Sucks for this to happen to you :(
Maniacal Lemon/Empoof - Mewtwo - Inspector - Lynched Day 5
ML was an early member of Flamestrike’s alliance, and he exceeded all of my expectations for him. Then he went MIA, and Empoof was subbed in. Empoof was eventually lynched off by the Aquanauts.
Not much to really say. Empoof did a good job while he subbed in, and ML performed better than expected.
HD - Prince Zuko - Inspector - Won Day 5
An early member of the Aquanauts, HD co-led the Aquanauts with Walrein. The Aquanauts cleared away his enemies, and he won.
First winner and probably the most manipulative/lying player there was itg. Did what he could to win and kept his identity secret.
GoldenKnight - Woody - Martyr - Lynched Night 5
No idea what was going through my head when I decided “Yep, a martyr seems like a good role for a player to have in this game.”
GoldenKnight had the misfortune of being accidentally trolled with his role. He was a member of Flamestrike’s alliance. He was eventually found and lynched off by the Aquanauts so the Aquanaut leader could win.
And thus was the end of the powerful GK. The idea behind the Martyr was so that he could work with a safeguard and perform a pseudo-hook. The kills couldn’t be redirected by GK, so what seemed like the worst role was actually a solid one that just required some trust.
Walrein - Ganondorf - Hooker - Won Night 5
Walrein put together a large alliance, the Aquanauts. The Aquanauts also had several hanger-ons who voted with them, though I doubt the actual Aquanauts would have considered those to be members of their alliance. Eventually Walrein used the strength of his Aquanauts to win.
and of course the person who needed the pseudo-hooker dead was the hooker himself! Walrein did a great job leading the dissenting anti-Spock alliance. While he didn’t realize just how big Spock actually was, he was able to successfully whittle away at some of their members and still win.
TalkingLion - Paul Bunyan - Kidnapper - Won Night 5
The Aquanauts picked him up at some point, I believe it was right after he was subbed in. He worked with them and then won.
The boy who was magically saved... Didn’t really seem to do much. His enemeis were mostly those in #spock and the ones that Walrein’s alliance needed dead. Kidnaps are OC btw as NOC is totally gay. So this was basically a delayed silence and a sorta-pseudo-SG.
Darkpenguin67 - Phineas Flynn - Watcher - Killed Night 5
One of the Aquanaut hanger-ons that was mentioned earlier. Died when his use ended, I think.
Not much to say.
Maxim - Superman - Announcer and BPV - Lynched Day 6
One of Walrein’s Aquanauts. He voted with them if he felt like being active enough to do so. Everybody alive at the end of the game agreed to lynch him.
Not much to really say. A bit inactive at times, but just voted and sent in actions. Got a BPV in case the wolves tried to kill him, but apart from that got a useless role :/
superrun10/Snike - Putt-Putt - Tracker - Won Day 6
Another Aquanaut hanger-on. Got lucky when everybody decided to lynch Maxim on Day 6.
Not really much to say.
Dummy007 - Elmer Fudd - Silencer and IPV - Lynched Night 6
An Aquanaut. He had made an alliance with lkk early in the game, but that didn’t pan out very well when lkk died. For some reason he didn’t realize that Paperblade and Quagsires had the game’s kill, despite being marked on the sheet as wolves. Paperblade and Quagsires decided they didn’t want him to win at the end, and voted against him.
Not much to say. Tried to work with lkk when he tried to make an alliance, but it didn’t really work out too well.
Yeti - Homer Simpson - Redirector - Won Night 6
An early member of Flamestrike’s alliance. She was active in the earlygame, barely there in the midgame because she was doing other things, and was just active enough in the endgame to win.
The only #spock winner in the entire game. While #spock was alive and intact, she played an active role and relayed info to #spock. After #spock was picked apart, she kinda laid low and just won in the end.
Paperblade and Quagsires - Jak and Daxter - Wolf duo - Won Night 6
Okay so kingmaker wolves who cruise to victory was a pretty terrible idea. Would not use this idea again.
Paperblade and Quagsires decided to work with Walrein and his Aquanauts. After Walrein won they decided they didn’t want the rest of the Aquanauts to win, and started to decide who the winners were.
Probably the better of the duo was Paperblade as he was more active in getting information from both sides of the alliance. Quagsires was more unreachable, but did an okay job of staying alive. If anything, I would’ve given someone an incentive to kill the wolves.
Comments overall (Snype):
The idea behind this game was to make a small game that forced players to be independent on their own. So Spoon and I made this a basically all-neutral game as that was the simplest way to make people be independent and get their shit done if they wanted to win. We cut down the playerlist to 20 as opposed to 25 as people were inactive and we didn’t want to risk inactivity (which still happened, but I’d rather have 4/20 inactive as opposed to 8/25). This game was mostly experimental to try out “what if... concepts”
Most of the roles in the game were crapshoots. We aimed to make this a diplomacy-based game rather than a mafia game because a lot of this game focused on individual actions and we wanted to minimize damage. The biggest threat I could see coming was the village leader system, which I hate as it just promotes people being lazy and being away. Thus, the neutrals were designed to keep people on their feet and they were given a reasonably difficult win condition with only the tool of an every-night kill and a pseudo-mayor. They weren’t given any safeclaims at all. What I didn’t see about the wolves was that they would be the ultimate kingmakers. The design idea was from an old Wumpus lab I had to make for programming and was something pretty simple for people to figure out. They didn’t have anyone needing them dead as we figured it was already hard enough to allow only 5 people to win. Lesson learned.
I didn’t want kills being too frequent as this was a small game after all and I wanted to force players to make their independent negotiations. As a result, the night lynch was introduced so players could continually have the option to backstab their partners they were with and have dealings in secret as I hoped people would realize that with the mutual-enemy system that as their enemies died first, the responsibility for the target’s death fell more so upon that individual.
The roles were also pretty unbalanced as some people had kidnappers and 3-vote mayors with LPVs and others were reduced to trackers and watchers. We tried to balance this by giving the worse-off players needing other worse-off players dead and the more powerful roles have other powerful roles dead. The idea with the smaller roles was that people would use these roles to determine who X is really working with. In retrospect, these should have been some side abilities rather than whole abilities mixed with an IPV, a LPV, or a BPV. The game didn’t really progress to that level as the only manipulator in the game was HD, so I tended to overestimate.
Overall, the game was an experiment, and while some aspects failed and could be interpreted as counterproductive to a competitive environment (zorbees played pretty well and could've won: the wolves should've had a character oppose them instead), I think some parts could be reintroduced in a future game.
On to the player comments
General Spoon's comments will be shown like this
Andrew's comments will be shown as this.
dogfish44 - Jack Sparrow - Safeguard and every 3rd night hooker - Lynched Day 1
First casualty.
Yeah, not much to really say. He was the first target that a mass of players united, which we will refer to as the Spock Alliance. They found this out via an inspect, and was promptly lynched.
Unfortunately, he was the alias that was randtargeted for an inspect after Spock had amassed to their large size, and once they had found him to be an enemy to their alliance, they all lynched him. He did try to set up an alliance, but most of the leftover players were too paranoid to unite this early.
Flamestrike - Eric Cartman - Reverse Martyr - Killed Night 1
He got a fairly large alliance together early in the game. Then he was nightkilled by Paperblade and Quagsires. I was sad to see it happen. The alliance that he put into place dominated the earlygame. This alliance included himself, Goldenknight, Galladiator, auramaster, Maniacal Lemon/Empoof, and Yeti.
The guy that got together the alliance was unfortunately the N1 Kill target of Paperblade/quagsires.
This was the N1 kill target as a result of the wolf duo, which was meant to balance out any big alliances. Paperblade was on the side that was more trusted by #spock and was able to learn some of these names. I don’t recall how they got his alias though. Flamestrike’s role was one of those roles that revolved around being a team player. No bodyguards in the game meant that all he had to do was earn the trust of the wolves, which sadly did not work out very well, especially since he was trying hard to convince Paperblade, who had suggested the target to dogfish iirc that dogfish’s target was a bad idea, though Paperblade himself suggested the counterlynch target.
loudkirbyking - Barack Obama - LPV and triple mayor - Lynched Day 2
I had thought this would be a rather scary role. Then it got lynched off right away.
loudkirbyking started to make an alliance of sorts, though I think he only really had Dummy007 in it. I was astonished that this role died so early.
This role we envisioned would be a more late-game role when alliances mattered. Even after Spock tried to lynch him during the night, the key factor that led to his death was auramaster convincing smashlloyd20 to vote for him. I intended for lkk and smash’s roles to work as an anti-large alliance to dominate. What I unfortunately did not see was the large alliance to amass by the end of n0.
We had predicted this role to be more influential as it would be a terror to unite against. We didn’t expect the large enough alliance to be happening this early, as this was a threat everyone in #spock would have to unite early enough. This was another pseudo-anti-big-alliance role that we had thought would happen. Obviously no night actions as there weren’t many vote-influencing roles and in the late-game, this player could win in the end-game.
Layell - Vito Corleone - Safeguard - Lynched Night 2
An early member of Walrein’s Aquanauts. I believe that he was lynched because people thought his alias was HD’s.
Another one of #spock’s targets. This was one of the people who iirc HD had betrayed to Empoof in his effort to win and stay alive. I don’t think that HD knew that Empoof was a part of #spock though. Layell was a known enemy of #spock anyway, and his death was sadly inevitable. All they needed was his alias, which HD gave them.
auramaster - Jake Hunter - Role/Smogon name inspector and hooker - Lynched Day 3
auramaster was a member of Flamestrike’s alliance. Walrein had it out for auramaster from very early on, learning from some source I’ve since forgotten what the alias of auramaster, his enemy, is. The Aquanauts managed to finally lynch him on day 3, thereby beginning their dominance.
auramaster was an active member of #spock, doing what he could to contribute to #spock’s victory. Unfortunately, this was the point where all people not in #spock were able to unite and lynch #spock. At this point, #spock had lost its dominance and Walrein’s Aquanaut alliance was beginning to take over. He did, though, collaborate with another user and swapped role PMs very early, leading them both to be NOC kidnapped for a cycle iirc.
Galladiator - Dick Cheney - Kidnapper - Killed Night 3
A member of Flamestrike’s alliance. His alliance traded his alias to zorbees to learn Walrein’s alias. This led directly to Galladiator’s death.
The wolf duo targeted another one of #spock, and such led to Galladiator’s death.
smashlloyd20 - The Doctor - Announcer and mayor - Lynched Day 4
I believe that smash mostly went his own way most of the game, and got lucky that two of his enemies died without much effort on his part. The Aquanauts lynched him because the last player smash needed dead was HD, an Aquanaut.
Not much to really say about smash since he sorta did his own thing, and I didn’t really have much contact with him. He was close to winning, but since he didn’t have the right allies, HD was able to lynch him.
zorbees - Adrian Monk - Smogon name inspector and BPV - Lynched Night 4
zorbees went his own way for most of the earlygame, before being picked up by the Aquanauts. He had worked it out to win on night 3 by having the wolves nightkill Galladiator, while the Aquanauts lynched DarkPenguin67. Unfortunately for zorbees the lynch ended in a tie that could have been prevented if either Aquanaut Maxim had voted, or if the wolves hadn’t voted against the Aquanauts. Paperblade and Quagsires told Walrein that he needed to lynch either zorbees or TalkingLion, and Walrein chose to off zorbees.
This guy was set to win as most of his enemies were dead and had he lived, I think his third enemy would’ve died. Unfortunately, this conflicted with Quag/PBlade’s interests as TalkingLion was also on the verge of winning, which threatened Quagsires and Paperblade’s win condition, which forced the duo to give Walrein an ultimatum, and Walrein decided on zorbees. Sucks for this to happen to you :(
Maniacal Lemon/Empoof - Mewtwo - Inspector - Lynched Day 5
ML was an early member of Flamestrike’s alliance, and he exceeded all of my expectations for him. Then he went MIA, and Empoof was subbed in. Empoof was eventually lynched off by the Aquanauts.
Not much to really say. Empoof did a good job while he subbed in, and ML performed better than expected.
HD - Prince Zuko - Inspector - Won Day 5
An early member of the Aquanauts, HD co-led the Aquanauts with Walrein. The Aquanauts cleared away his enemies, and he won.
First winner and probably the most manipulative/lying player there was itg. Did what he could to win and kept his identity secret.
GoldenKnight - Woody - Martyr - Lynched Night 5
No idea what was going through my head when I decided “Yep, a martyr seems like a good role for a player to have in this game.”
GoldenKnight had the misfortune of being accidentally trolled with his role. He was a member of Flamestrike’s alliance. He was eventually found and lynched off by the Aquanauts so the Aquanaut leader could win.
And thus was the end of the powerful GK. The idea behind the Martyr was so that he could work with a safeguard and perform a pseudo-hook. The kills couldn’t be redirected by GK, so what seemed like the worst role was actually a solid one that just required some trust.
Walrein - Ganondorf - Hooker - Won Night 5
Walrein put together a large alliance, the Aquanauts. The Aquanauts also had several hanger-ons who voted with them, though I doubt the actual Aquanauts would have considered those to be members of their alliance. Eventually Walrein used the strength of his Aquanauts to win.
and of course the person who needed the pseudo-hooker dead was the hooker himself! Walrein did a great job leading the dissenting anti-Spock alliance. While he didn’t realize just how big Spock actually was, he was able to successfully whittle away at some of their members and still win.
TalkingLion - Paul Bunyan - Kidnapper - Won Night 5
The Aquanauts picked him up at some point, I believe it was right after he was subbed in. He worked with them and then won.
The boy who was magically saved... Didn’t really seem to do much. His enemeis were mostly those in #spock and the ones that Walrein’s alliance needed dead. Kidnaps are OC btw as NOC is totally gay. So this was basically a delayed silence and a sorta-pseudo-SG.
Darkpenguin67 - Phineas Flynn - Watcher - Killed Night 5
One of the Aquanaut hanger-ons that was mentioned earlier. Died when his use ended, I think.
Not much to say.
Maxim - Superman - Announcer and BPV - Lynched Day 6
One of Walrein’s Aquanauts. He voted with them if he felt like being active enough to do so. Everybody alive at the end of the game agreed to lynch him.
Not much to really say. A bit inactive at times, but just voted and sent in actions. Got a BPV in case the wolves tried to kill him, but apart from that got a useless role :/
superrun10/Snike - Putt-Putt - Tracker - Won Day 6
Another Aquanaut hanger-on. Got lucky when everybody decided to lynch Maxim on Day 6.
Not really much to say.
Dummy007 - Elmer Fudd - Silencer and IPV - Lynched Night 6
An Aquanaut. He had made an alliance with lkk early in the game, but that didn’t pan out very well when lkk died. For some reason he didn’t realize that Paperblade and Quagsires had the game’s kill, despite being marked on the sheet as wolves. Paperblade and Quagsires decided they didn’t want him to win at the end, and voted against him.
Not much to say. Tried to work with lkk when he tried to make an alliance, but it didn’t really work out too well.
Yeti - Homer Simpson - Redirector - Won Night 6
An early member of Flamestrike’s alliance. She was active in the earlygame, barely there in the midgame because she was doing other things, and was just active enough in the endgame to win.
The only #spock winner in the entire game. While #spock was alive and intact, she played an active role and relayed info to #spock. After #spock was picked apart, she kinda laid low and just won in the end.
Paperblade and Quagsires - Jak and Daxter - Wolf duo - Won Night 6
Okay so kingmaker wolves who cruise to victory was a pretty terrible idea. Would not use this idea again.
Paperblade and Quagsires decided to work with Walrein and his Aquanauts. After Walrein won they decided they didn’t want the rest of the Aquanauts to win, and started to decide who the winners were.
Probably the better of the duo was Paperblade as he was more active in getting information from both sides of the alliance. Quagsires was more unreachable, but did an okay job of staying alive. If anything, I would’ve given someone an incentive to kill the wolves.
