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Magcargo [QC 1/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Joeyboy, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
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    [​IMG]
    http://serebii.net/pokedex-bw/219.shtml

    [Overview]

    • Unique set of Resistances allow it to be a niche wall in RU
    • Hindered by many weaknesses to common attacks, such as Rock, Water and Ground
    • Susceptiable to all forms of entry hazards and weak to Stealth Rock
    • Access to the powerful stat-up move Shell Smash now allows Magcargo to attempt a late game sweep.

    [SET]
    name: Defensive Snail
    move 1: Lava Plume
    move 2: Hidden Power Rock
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Stealth Rock/ Toxic/ Will-O-Wisp
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Flame Body
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef

    [SET COMMENTS]
    The moves chosen for this set are rather standard and don't have a lot of room for change.
    • Lava Plume: Basic Stab that has a wonderful 30% chance to burn the opponent. This is Magcargo's standard move to attempt to force out or damage the opposition.
    • Hidden Power Rock: Secondary Stab. Flying types are some of the few pokemon Magcargo can switch into and it enjoys smacking them with a SE Stab hit.
    • Recover: Standard 50% recovery move that all wall's love.
    • Stealth Rock/ Toxic/ Will-O-Wisp: The only moveslot that is really up for grabs. If your team needs a SR user Magcargo can fill that role and will love the responsibilty that comes with it. Toxic can be used if your team already has a SR user and Magcargo really enjoys the passive damage Toxic can bring. Will-O-Wisp can be used if you hate only having a 30% burn chance and need an on demand Burn.
    The EV's are to maximize Magcargo's bulk. 252 HP EV's pump up his weak base 50 HP and 252 SpDef help him take hits on his weaker Special side. Bold nature was chosen because his Defense is higher than his Special Defense and thus gives a higher boost.

    [Additional Comments]
    While Magcargo has some glaringly awful weakneses he also has a rather unique set of resistances notably to Normal, Flying, Poison and Fire. He can be a fairly reliable check to pokemon who relie on those types to smash through a team; examples include Swellow, Ambipom, Arcanine, Moltres and even Porygon-Z. Using his respectable defenses and unique resistances Magcargo can find a unique niche as a RU wall.

    [Other Options]

    Magcargo doesn't have many other options. It does have access to other support moves such as Light Screen, Reflect and Heal Bell so it is possible to run either a Dual Screen or Cleric set. Many other Pokemon though can run much more effective versions of these sets. Magcargo is one of the few pokemon who has access to the move Shell Smash. Even though he has low offensive stats; the overpowered nature of Shell Smash can always boost Magcargo into a sweeping role.

    [Checks and Counters]

    Munchlax is the perfect counter taking very little damage from all of Magcargo's boosted attacks. Also Scarfed pokemon who exceed 348 Speed will be able to revenge kill. Thick Fat Hariyama is also a pretty sure-fire counter. Dugtrio while not common is also a huge thorn in Magcargo's side.

    [Dream World]

    Magcargo's Hidden ability is Weak Armor, this should be the standard ability on the Shell Smash sweeper set due to Magcargo more often than not taking a hit to activate Shell Smash and then gaining even more speed with Weak Armor. It is useless to the wall set however.
  2. col49

    col49 unpolished
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    Pretty self-explanatory set, so I don't have much to say. For one, a stab Fire Blast is hitting Claydol harder than Hp Ice is anyway, so that really doesn't justify it's use. In fact, I might suggest slashing in Hp Grass, as the only thing Hp Ice is really hitting is Altaria, which is fairly uncommon. I mean, I guess you could mention the Ferroseed calcs, but they're sorta the most excessive thing I've seen since Max Hp FF-boosted Specstran's Eruption v. Shedninja .-. As I mentioned, Unaware Quag can usually beat non-Hp Grass variants, and those defensive Thick Fat Hariyama's also check them quite nicely. Otherwise, solid analysis for a poke that's been useless for 3 generations. Hats off to you sir
  3. Honko

    Honko
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    The last slot should be Hidden Power Rock. Fire+Ground+Rock gets perfect coverage in RU iirc, and HP Rock gets STAB. Much better than HP Ice or Grass (Grass is still theoretically useful for Quagsire, but nobody uses Quagsire).

    About the set itself, I'm not really sure Magcargo is viable. Even after a boost it loses to everything with Choice Scarf. It's hard enough to pull off a sweep with Omastar right now, so I can't see Magcargo accomplishing much. Has anyone actually used it with reasonable success?
  4. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Daww, I love Magcargo. Wish I could do his analysis!

    Honko, I'll do some testing later, then report back. I have a feeling that it is viable, so stay tuned.
  5. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    No defensive set? While Magcargo has a truckload of weaknesses, it does have its own small set of resistances that not many other Pokemon have, as well as access to Recover. Have you tested something like this?
  6. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Yeah, I also wanted to see a defensive set when I saw this last night (didn't have time to post though).
  7. Joeyboy

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    Haha totally forgot HP Rock :) saw Ancient Power and just went eh 60 BP stab is bad haha. I mentioned a defensive set in the Additional Comments but didn't add it because it didn't seem very viable. I'll add it and the different Hidden Powers later today.

    Also the Ferroseed calc was unnecessary I know, I was planning on taking it out anyway. :)
  8. Joeyboy

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    Updated with the Defensive Set and HP Rock over Hp Ice.
  9. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Argh, lost my post... rewriting:

    I was saying how the defensive set should be physical, not special. Magcargo resists:

    Normal
    Flying
    Poison
    Bug
    Fire (4x)
    Ice

    Only Fire and Ice are relevant on the special side, and Magcargo 4x resists Fire, while Ice-type moves are usually weaker coverage.

    With a physically defensive set, Magcargo fares pretty well against Honchkrow:

    Adamant LO Honch Brave Bird vs. 252 / 252 Bold Magcargo: 28% - 33%

    Same calc with +1 Honch: 42% - 50%

    Sucker Punch: 38% - 45%

    +1 Sucker Punch: 57% - 67%

    Magcargo could run Will-O-Wisp for a reliable burn on Honch, as you can potentially score a free turn when it uses Sucker Punch. Nice check IMO.

    Also, how about a SubRoost set? Just a wild idea, but Substitute could be used in the last slot.

    .... And I've just noticed that WoW is already slashed. Sub can give you a free turn to scout and respond to switch ins. Gallade won't like being burnt while it breaks your sub, for example.
  10. Lesser Smaug

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    In the defensive set, why is there a Bold nature when only 4 EVs are in Defense? It should be changed so that there is a Careful nature, or that the EV spread is 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD.

    Magcargo doesn't get Roost, but it gets Recover.
  11. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    The Shell Smash sweeper requires so much team support it isn't even funny. The defensive set is far better. I have to play with Magcargo some more to figure out the best way to use the defensive one, but for sure get rid of the Shell Smasher.
  12. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    Really? IMO everything that gets Shell Smash should have a set for it. The defensive one seems pretty much outclassed by Omastar, who resists almost all of the same types as Magcargo and has the entry hazards. Shell smash is useful since it lets Magcargo actually deal respectable damage with his STAB

    tbh though I doubt this will be QC approved...
  13. Honko

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    It should only get a set if it can actually be used successfully without a ridiculous amount of team support, and I don't think Shell Smash Magcargo can do that. The defensive set has several advantages over Omastar: it has Recover, it can burn things, and it can switch in on Moltres and Entei without worrying about HP Grass destroying it (although it does have to worry about Stone Edge). It still sucks (the only things I think it can beat are Moltres, Entei without Stone Edge, Honchkrow without Superpower, and Swellow) but at least it's not completely useless and outclassed, unlike the Shell Smasher.

    But you're right, I'm probably not going to approve Magcargo unless Oglemi comes back from testing and says it actually helped him win.
  14. Joeyboy

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    Changed the Defensive set to the main set.

    From the ol' analysis of Magcargo, I'll change it though based on a consensus that I should.

    I never really had problems with it. I ran a double Shell Smash team using Omastar and Magcargo and the only support I needed was Wynaut and Dual Screens. I think all sets that are viable should be put up and I believe both of these sets are viable. Plus it's better to have some analysis written rather than none at all and I'm more than happy to write it up. He is a rather niche pokemon but he can be used well and deserves an analysis onsite.
  15. Omicron

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    Ok, let's take a look at the Shell Smash set. Reaching 348 Speed after a Shell Smash is incredibly disappointing. You don't outspeed base 110 Pokemon and above, and certainly no Choice Scarf user. At least Omastar can outspeed most of the metagame after a Shell Smash, and it doesn't even need a Timid nature to do so. Omastar also packs a much higher Special Attack, and its main STAB isn't walled by Munchlax. My other point is, why would you use Magcargo as an offensive Fire-type when there are many other Fire-types who are much better? Typhlosion, Entei, Moltres, and Charizard are all examples of better offensive Pokemon. Shell Smash doesn't instantly make everything better, especially Magcargo, who is pretty terrible to the point where even Shell Smash can't help it...

    Omastar, Gorebyss, Huntail, and even Crustle make much better offensive users of Shell Smash.
  16. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    After playing with Macargo some more, I love the Defensive set. That gets a huge approval from me.

    The Shell Smash Sweeper though is pathetic. Get rid of it and only mention it in OO.

    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 1/3
  17. Joeyboy

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    Updated; Shell Smash Set is only mentioned in the OO section now :)
  18. Honko

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    OK, after finally getting around to testing this I've decided to reject it. Magcargo counters Moltres and Swellow, but that's about all it does, and it's a complete liability against almost everything else. It's simply not possible to be a good wall when you have such poor HP, get owned by hazards, and are weak to a bunch of extremely common attacking types like Water, Ground, Fighting, and Rock. Sorry.

    QC REJECTED 1/3

    (the good news is we have NU analyses now and Magcargo is still up for grabs, so you should try this there)
  19. zdrup15

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    Yeah I had already talked to Oglemi about Magcargo but ended up not posting at that time. Now I am doing it.

    QC REJECTED 2/3
  20. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    [QC REJECTED 3/3]
  21. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    o

    fine

    Moving to L&O

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