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Magcargo (Update) (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Magcargo, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    [​IMG]
    Hot Snail
    [Overview]

    <p>Magcargo is a Pokemon which has many crippling flaws that prevent it from shining in the limelight of the NU metagame. Due to its horrible typing, Magcargo not only has a Stealth Rock weakness, but it also sports 4x weaknesses to common Water and Ground-type moves, as well as a weakness to Fighting-type moves. To make matters worse, Magcargo has incredibly underwhelming Special Defense and HP, meaning that many powerful special attacks, such as Jynx's Focus Blast, will take it out after Stealth Rock. Despite these problems, Magcargo still makes a decent check to several important Pokemon in the NU metagame, including Swellow, Drifblim and Charizard, thanks to its key resistances to Normal-, Flying-, and Fire-type attacks. Magcargo also has a unique support movepool, including options such as Memento, Will-O-Wisp, and Stealth Rock, as well as a reliable recovery move. However, theses traits do not make Magcargo a good Pokemon and more often than not, other defensive Fire- and Rock-types, such as Torkoal and Regirock, will be better options for your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Lava Plume
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Flame Body
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    ivs: 0 Atk

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set uses Magcargo's unique defensive typing to check various threats in the NU metagame, particularly Fire- and Normal-types such as Charizard and Swellow respectively. Because of this, Magcargo can find multiple opportunities to reliably set up Stealth Rock. In the second slot, Recover is to heal Magcargo from any damage it has taken. It should be noted that Magcargo's Stealth Rock weakness forces it to Recover against foes that it walls, slowing down the team's momentum. Lava Plume is a great STAB option thanks to its nifty 30% burn chance, which can cripple many common switch-ins, such as Golurk. However, despite its decent Base Power, most foes will take very little damage from it due to Magcargo's sub-par Special Attack. This forces Magcargo to use Toxic as its primary form of damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Magcargo to tank weaker special attacks, such as Zebstrika's Thunderbolt, while still allowing it to survive relatively powerful physical attacks, such as Swellow's Facade. Magcargo has 0 Attack IVs so that it takes minimal damage from confusion and Foul Play. Hidden Power Rock or Hidden Power Grass can be used for STAB or to hit Water - and Rock-types, respectively. However, these moves have little utility outside of hitting specific targets. Will-O-Wisp can be used over Toxic to cripple physical attackers, but Lava Plume already has a decent chance to burn. Good partners for Magcargo include those who resist its weaknesses. Seismitoad is a good partner because it absorbs Magcargo's Water-type weakness and resists its Rock-type weaknesses. It can also use Stealth Rock and open up a moveslot for Magcargo. Misdreavus is another solid partner, as it's immune to both Fighting- and Ground-type moves and can heal Magcargo from status with Heal Bell.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Magcargo can run an offensive Shell Smash set with Fire Blast, Earth Power, and Hidden Power Grass, but it is very difficult for Magcargo to set up due to its common weaknesses. If you do decide to run a Shell Smash set, then Memento is a fine option over Earth Power, as it allows easier setup for Pokemon like Zangoose. A dual screens set is also viable, but it suffers from the same problem as the Shell Smash set. Clear Smog can be used to eliminate stat boosts, but its low Base Power is a turnoff and Magcargo has a hard time fitting it into one of its moveslots. Overheat and Fire Blast can be used for their power, but Lava Plume is usually the better choice thanks to its higher PP and higher chance to burn. Finally, a Sunny Day set with Heat Rock can be used, but Magcargo merely compounds the weaknesses that sun teams already have.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Magcargo is not very hard to counter thanks to its low Special Attack and common weaknesses. Carmerupt is Magcargo's best counter, as it can switch into anything Magcargo throws at it, barring Toxic, and annihilate it with Earthquake. Seismitoad is another good counter, as it can switch into most of Magcargo's moves and destroy it with either of its STAB attacks. Defensive variants fear status from Magcargo, however. Probopass and Torkoal only fear the rare Earth Power, and both of them can retaliate with their own Earth Power. Golurk and Carracosta can both outspeed and OHKO Magcargo with their STAB attacks. In general, any Pokemon faster than Magcargo with a super effective attack can be considered a check to it.</p>

    Skeleton (open)
    [Overview]
    • Not much going for it in NU
    • Horrible typing, giving it a weakness to the common Fighting, Water and Ground attacks as well as Stealth Rock while also making it an ineffective check to most Normal and Flying types, unlike most Rock Types
    • Underwhelming HP and Special Defense
    • Outclassed by other defensive Fire and Rock Types like Torkoal and Regirock
    • Decent check to Pokemon such as Swellow, Driftblim and Charizard
    • Has reliable recovery and cool support moves like Stealth Rocks, Will-O-Wisp and Memento
    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Lava Plume
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Flame Body
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    ivs: 0 Atk

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Uses Magcargo's unique defensive typing to check various pokemon in the NU tier, especially Fire Types like Charizard, something that not many other pokemon are capable of doing
    • Thanks to Magcargo's unique typing, it can often set up Stealth Rock against foes such as as Weezing, Charizard and Swellow
    • In the second slot, Recover is to heal Magcargo from any damage it has taken
    • Lava Plume is Magcargo's main STAB move thanks to its 30% Burn Chance and decent bse power
    • Toxic is Magcargo's primary form of damage and cripples common switch-ins such as Seismitoad and Alomomola
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • The given EV Spread allows Magcargo to tank weaker Special attacks like Zebstrika's Thunderbolt (assuming Stealth rock is not on the field), while still allowing it to tank relatively powerful physical attacks
    • Hidden power Rock can be used for STAB, while Hidden Power Grass can maime Water and Rock Types, but Toxic already cripples these pokemon and has utility outside of hitting specific targets
    • Will-O-Wisp, but Lava Plume already has a decent chance to burn
    • Good partners for Magcargo include those that resist its weaknesses
    • Seismitoad is a good partner since it resist Magcargo's Water and Rock Weaknesses
    • Misdreavus is another good partner since its immune to Ground and Fighting moves
    [Other Options]
    • A Shell Smash set with Fire Blast, Hidden Power Grass and either earth power or memento can be used, but Magcargo's common weaknesses prevent it from setting up
    • Clear Smog
    • Dual Screens
    • Overheat and Fire Blast for power, but Lava Plume is usually the better choice thanks to its burn chance and both moves come off of Magcargo's poor base 80 special attack
    • Sunny Day with Heat Rock, but it compounds the weaknesses that Sun teams have
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Seismitoad can Switch in and destroy Magcargo with Scald, but it must watch out for Toxic
    • Camerupt can tank anything that Magcargo throws at it and KO it back with Earthquake, but it should also watch out for Toxic
    • Probopass only fears the rare Earth Power and can deal a tremendous amount of damage back with its own Earth Power
    • Torkoal only fears Hidden Power Rock and Earth Power and can either set up a Shell smash, or OHKO back with Earth Power
    • Golurk and Carracosta can both outspeed and OHKO Magcargo
    • In general, any Pokemon that is faster and carries a super effective move can be considered a check to Magcargo
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  2. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    I would make the set:
    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Lava Plume
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Flame Body
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    ivs: 0 Atk

    [Overview]
    Remove the first point, no fluff in analyses. Also remove the last point, the rest of the analysis should have explained what that point said by itself. Add that it also checks Charizard.

    [Set Comments]
    Fix this to take the set changes into consideration.

    [Additional Comments]
    Add HP Grass here.

    [Other Options]
    Add Memento here. Clear Smog as a way for Magcargo to remove boosts, but pretty bad move in general as it has to give up a move.

    I'll look at it again later when you implement this stuff.
  3. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    I'd reword this. To be honest, I'd rather use Magcargo than Torkoal for a pure Shell Smash sweeper. Magcargo might have a bit less power and less bulk, but the extra speed is pretty significant. Unlike Torkoal, it can outrun all base 95s with a Modest nature at +2 and everything up to and including Timid Liepard with a Timid nature. However, I do still believe Shell Smash is Other Options material; to be honest, the only reason Torkoal gets away with it is because it needs Shell Smash to get past most spinblockers. Instead of saying "outclassed by Torkoal," I'd just be more generic and say something along the lines of "burdened by its common weaknesses and low speed, even after a Shell Smash boost.
  4. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    Add in somewhere that Magcargo is a pretty good check to most Fire-types in the tier such as Charizard which not many other mons are capable of and just be wary of Focus Blast when dealing with zard.
    I'd also add in OO when you mention the Shell Smash set that Shell Smash + Memento is pretty cool on an offensive team with a bunch of set up sweepers because you do outspeed a lot of stuff such as base 95s like Agent Gibbs said and getting off a Memento can be really unexpected (Magcargo is in general tho too lol) and helpful. (I've used it for fun and it worked out well.)
    ebeast likes this.
  5. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Made all of the changes.
  6. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    cool qc 1/3
  7. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    In AC I'm puzzled to why you said Hidden Power Rock leaves you walled by Water- and Rock-types, because that set is using Lava Plume as its only attacking move. Remove that. In OO, there's a lot of repetition. Merge bullet points 1 and 2, and remove the other mentions of Memento because it should only be used on a Shell Smash set. Mention only Dual Screens on the 5th bullet point. Also mention how bad of an idea Sunny Day Magcargo is because it compounds weaknesses that Sun teams do not like at all.
  8. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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  9. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    [Overview]
    When talking about its poor typings and the weaknesses it brings mention that for that reason it's not a reliable check to most Normal- and Flying-type Pokemon like other Rock-types Pokemon are.

    [Set Comments]
    Give more examples than just Weezing, it can also set up SR vs Zard and Swellow.

    [Additional Comments]
    I would combine the point on the Hidden Power choices together and say the reason to not use both of them is because Toxic lets you cripple both of the HP targets while still having utility outside of that.

    [Checks and Counters]
    HP Grass is now in AC so just say that Seismitoad can switch in and threaten but must watch out for Toxic.

    QC Approved 2/3
  10. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Alright, I'll get this written up ASAP
  11. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Small nitpick, but if you are gonna mention 3 flying types that Magcargo checks, I would put flying on the list of key resistances ;)
    Magcargo likes this.
  12. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Social Media Chief

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    In OO, you call Base 80 Special Attack "poor", when it's more mediocre than anything. Nice analysis otherwise!

    [​IMG]
    3/3
    Magcargo likes this.
  13. Ender

    Ender #scrublyfe
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    GP Check 1/2

    Additions and Changes
    Deletions
    [Comments]

    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Magcargo is a Pokemon that has many crippling flaws, which that prevent it from shining in the limelight of the NU metagame. Thanks to its horrible typing, Magcargo not only has a Stealth Rock weakness, but it also sports 4x weaknesses to the extremely common Water- and Ground-type moves, as well as a weakness to Fighting-type moves. To make matters worse, Magcargo has incredibly underwhelming Special Defense and HP, meaning that many powerful special attacks, such as Jynx's Focus Blast, will take it out after Stealth Rock. Despite these problems, Magcargo still makes a decent check to several important Pokemon in the NU metagame, including Swellow, Driftblim and Charizard, thanks to its key resistances to Normal-, Flying- and Fire-type attacks. Magcargo also has a unique support movepool, including options such as Memento, Will-O-Wisp and Stealth Rock, as well as a reliable recovery move. However, [comma] these traits do not make Magcargo a good Pokemon, [comma] and more often than not, other defensive Fire-types and Rock-types [removed comma] such as Torkoal and Regirock will be better options for your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Lava Plume
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Flame Body
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    ivs: 0 Atk

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set uses Magcargo's unique defensive typing to check various threats in the NU metagame, [changed ; to ,] particularly Fire-types like Charizard. Because of this, Magcargo can find multiple opportunities in the match to set up Stealth Rock, making it an excellent the premier option in the first slot. In the second slot, Recover is used in the second slot to heal Magcargo from any damage it has taken. It should be noted that Magcargo's Stealth Rock weakness forces it to Recover against foes that it walls, slowing down the team's momentum. Lava plume is another good choice occupies the third slot thanks to its nifty 30% burn chance, which can cripple many common switch-ins, [comma] such as Golurk. However, despite its decent base power, most foes will take very little damage from it thanks to Magcargo's sub-par Special Attack. This forces Magcargo to run use Toxic as its primary form of damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Magcargo to tank weaker special attacks, [comma] such as Zebstrika's Thunderbolt, while still allowing it to tank survive relatively powerful physical attacks, such as Swellow's Facade. 0 Attack IVs are used to Magcargo has 0 Attack IVs so that it takes minimal damage from confusion and Foul Play. Hidden Power Rock or Hidden Power Grass can be used for STAB or to hit Water and Rock-types, [comma] respectively. However, these moves have little utility outside of hitting specific targets. Will-O-Wisp can be used over Toxic to cripple physical attackers, but Lava Plume already has a decent chance to burn chance. Good partners for Magcargo include those who resist its weaknesses. Seismitoad is a good partner because as it resists Magcargo's Water- and Rock-type weaknesses. It can also use Stealth Rock and open up a moveslot for Magcargo. Misdreavus is another solid partner, as it's immune to both Fighting- and Ground-type moves and can heal Magcargo from status with Heal Bell.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Magcargo can run an offensive Shell Smash set with Fire Blast, Earth Power and Hidden Power Grass, but it is very difficult for Magcargo finds it very hard to set up thanks to its common weaknesses. If you do decide to run a Shell Smash set, then Memento is a fine option over Earth Power, [comma] as it allows easier setup for Pokemon like Zangoose. A dual screens set is also viable, but it suffers from the same problem as the Shell Smash set. Clear Smog can be used to eliminate stat boosts, but its low base power is a turnoff, set off and Magcargo has a hard time fitting it into one of its moveslots. Overheat and Fire Blast can be used for their power, but Lava Plume is usually the better choice thanks to its higher PP and higher chance to burn chance. Furthermore, both moves come off of Magcargo's mediocre base 80 Special Attack. Finally, a Sunny Day set with Heat Rock can be used, but Magcargo merely compounds the weaknesses that sun teams already have.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Magcargo is not very hard to counter thanks to its low Special Attack and common weaknesses. Carmerupt is Magcargo's best counter, [comma] as it can switch into anything Magcargo throws at it [remove space here], barring Toxic, and annihilate it with Earthquake. Seismitoad is another good counter, as it can switch into most of Magcargo's moves and destroy it with either of its STAB attacks moves. Defensive variants fear status from Magcargo, however. Probopass and Torkoal only fear the rare Earth Power, [comma] and both of them can retaliate with their own Earth Power. Golurk and Carracosta can both outspeed and OHKO Magcargo with their STAB attacks. In general, any Pokemon faster than Magcargo with a super effective Super-Effective attack can be considered a check to it Magcargo.</p>
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  14. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Implemented.
  15. Namso

    Namso
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    Let's get this out of the way.

    Additions.
    Deletions.
    Comments.

    Just a few things to keep in mind:

    • it's Base Power, not base power
    • it's Water- and Fighting-type moves, not Water and Fighting-type moves
    • don't say "thanks to" when noting something is bad (Magcargo sucks thanks to its...), say "due to" (Magcargo sucks due to its...) and only say "thanks to" when something does something well because of something (Magcargo's a great check thanks to its...)
    • It's SpD, not SDef
    But most importantly, you're neglecting the Oxford comma. Don't neglect it!
    [​IMG]

    Good job otherwise!

    GP 2/2
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  16. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Implemented all changes.
    Alright, this is ready to go on-site.
  17. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    uploading!

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