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Magmar (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by erisia, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    OI. OVER HERE.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>With Amoonguss being one of the most popular Pokemon in the NU tier, Magmortar's ability to counter it with impunity would have been more vital than ever. However, as Magmortar has now moved up to RU, its little brother Magmar will have to do. While it's certainly not as powerful as Emboar or Charizard, Magmar remains one of the most foolproof responses to Grass-type Pokemon in general, with its Vital Spirit letting it switch into the Spores and Sleep Powders that pester almost every team. Its decent Special Defense, alongside its good set of resistances and ability to use Eviolite, also let it take their STAB attacks extremely well. Meanwhile, Magmar's offensive stats are still high enough for it to pose a threat, with a powerful Fire Blast dealing severe damage to frail sweepers and Fire-weak targets, and base 93 Speed letting it outspeed much of the unboosted metagame. However, while Magmar is definitely capable as an offensive Pokemon, it's certainly not as overwhelming as its older brother, lacking Thunderbolt and thus having difficulty against Water-type Pokemon as a result. Furthermore, aside from its Vital Spirit and access to Eviolite, it's actually outclassed by the faster and more versatile Simisear; thus you must ensure that you're using Magmar to its strengths, or you shouldn't bother using it at all. Overall, while Magmar doesn't come close to the level of power that Magmortar once provided, it can still fill an important role within the tier, and shouldn't be underestimated.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Fire Blast / Lava Plume
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Vital Spirit
    nature: Modest
    evs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With this set, Magmar fills the role of a bulky tank that specializes in removing Grass-type Pokemon with as much certainty as possible. Common Grass-type tanks such as Amoonguss, Exeggutor, and Tangela have next to no chance of breaking through Magmar before it can kill them with its STAB attack of choice. For instance, with the given HP investment and Eviolite equipped, standard Amoonguss can't hope to destroy Magmar's Substitute in one hit, while a Psychic from even Choice Specs Exeggutor will never OHKO Magmar, even after it's switched into Stealth Rock. Importantly, its Vital Spirit ensures that Spores and Sleep Powders, the tools that Grass-type Pokemon love to use to get around their usual counters, are completely ineffective, and allows Magmar to protect its teammates from sleep moves by switching into them directly. In combination with Magmar's naturally high base Speed, this makes it very difficult for Grass-type Pokemon to do anything at all when faced with the flaming duck, forcing them to either switch out or be defeated.</p>

    <p>Meanwhile, Magmar retains several qualities that make it useful on teams outside of this specific niche. Resistances to Bug-, Fire-, and Ice-type attacks, alongside its access to Eviolite, let Magmar take even powerful neutral special attacks extremely well. For instance, Life Orb Haunter can't 2HKO with any of its attacks so long as Stealth Rock is kept off the field. Furthermore, Magmar certainly isn't a sitting duck, as its Fire Blast holds a lot of power and can OHKO a lot of frail targets, such as the aforementioned Haunter, Cinccino, and Swellow, while Lava Plume threatens anything that attempts to switch into Magmar with a crippling burn. Once Magmar switches into battle, it can set up a Substitute against bulky opponents to block status moves or weak attacks, and then proceed to either burn targets directly with Will-O-Wisp or hit them hard with a STAB attack or coverage move. Overall, while Magmar isn't a conventional choice for a Fire-type Pokemon, it is by far the best candidate for countering Grass-type Pokemon, and still retains a lot of utility in other situations.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The aim of the EV spread is to maximize Magmar's attacking power, give it enough Speed to outrun the majority of defensive Pokemon, and grant it enough bulk to take the various STAB and coverage moves that Grass-type Pokemon wield with ease. With 44 Speed EVs and a neutral nature, Magmar can outspeed Adamant Torterra, not only letting it revenge kill it easily, but also letting it Speed tie with the myriad other Pokemon that try to reach this Speed tier. Meanwhile, 212 HP EVs ensure that standard Amoonguss can only deal 20.37 - 24.07% damage with its Sludge Bomb. More EVs can be invested in bulk to let Magmar's Substitutes withstand more powerful attacks, such as defensive Exeggutor's Psychic or Tangela's Hidden Power Rock, although this detracts from Magmar's offense significantly and makes it harder to secure kills.</p>

    <p>Fire Blast is the more powerful of Magmar's STAB attacks, and is extremely efficient at cutting down Grass-type Pokemon, as well as 2HKOing bulky opponents such as offensive Gardevoir and bulky Skuntank. However, Lava Plume is also extremely useful due to its high burn chance; running it also makes you less reliant on using Will-O-Wisp to burn targets, letting you use a third attack in that moveslot instead. Focus Blast is the best coverage move that Magmar has, hitting Rock-types such as Regirock hard, in addition to bulky Normal-type Pokemon such as Miltank and Lickilicky. Unfortunately, Magmar can't generate high enough temperatures to ionize air like its older brother, and thus doesn't get access to Thunderbolt. Hidden Power Grass is your best option for hitting Water-type Pokemon (although you're probably better off switching out) while also hitting targets such as Golem and Carracosta much more reliably. Other Hidden Power types can be used to hit specific targets, such as Hidden Power Rock for a better option against opposing Fire-type Pokemon, or Hidden Power Ice to hit Altaria and other Dragons for decent damage.</p>

    <p>As Magmar counters Grass-type Pokemon extremely well, teammates that struggle against them really appreciate Magmar's support. Golem and Carracosta are especially grateful, and can also use Stealth Rock to help augment Magmar's damage output, in addition to dealing with opposing Fire-type Pokemon. Likewise, Pokemon that would rather have physically offensive opponents burned, such as Calm Mind Musharna and Swords Dance Lickilicky, also benefit greatly from Magmar's presence on a team. While Magmar provides a lot of team support, it isn't as independent as its evolution, and requires help getting past specific opponents. Water-type Pokemon such as Samurott and Gorebyss are a colossal pain for Magmar to deal with, so using an Amoonguss to incapacitate them, or a Ludicolo to counter-sweep them, is a good idea. Users of Rock Blast, particularly Cinccino, can also break through Magmar's Substitutes and OHKO it regardless, so packing a sturdy resist such as Gurdurr can be helpful. Finally, as Magmar is both weak to Stealth Rock and inclined to use Substitute a lot, it can be worn down quite easily over the course of the match. Alomomola can alleviate these issues by passing it enormous Wishes, and is also an exceptional response to many of Magmar's checks and counters. Using a spinner such as Armaldo to mitigate entry hazard damage is also useful, if you can afford to run one on your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Substitute / Psychic
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Vital Spirit
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Here, Magmar aims to follow more directly in its older brother's footsteps by running an all-out attacking set, being fast enough to outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame, but losing power and bulk in comparison. With a level of power slightly higher than Choice Scarf Magmortar, it still has enough power to secure KOs on slower offensive opponents, as well as faster ones that try to switch in, while retaining the ability to switch between moves. However, while Magmar is certainly a capable attacker, it must be remembered that Vital Spirit is the only real reason for using it over the faster and more versatile Simisear, making it a good offensive response to sleep moves, which many teams can struggle to deal with. Thus, offensive Magmar is just as valuable as a pivot into Grass-types as a general revenge killer, and you should ensure that it sees significant use as the former to avoid being outclassed.</p>

    <p>Magmar can run a Life Orb or Choice Specs equally well, with both items being important for increasing damage output. When using a Life Orb, Magmar can opt to use Substitute to play around Sucker Punch users, such as Absol, Skuntank, and Golem, scoring a free hit on them one turn later. On the other hand, Choice Specs can be used to minimize recoil damage and maximize power; in this case, Psychic is the best option for a fourth attack, as it can reliably deal with Emboar, which can otherwise tank a Focus Blast or resisted attack if necessary. Overall, while Magmar isn't the best Fire-type attacker in the tier, it's still extremely competent, and its ability to switch into sleep moves gives it a useful niche for teams that require it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Generally, a Timid nature is the most useful as it allows Magmar to outspeed Jolly Sawk, Pinsir, and Zangoose. However, even with a Modest nature, Magmar still outspeeds positive base 80s, so if your other teammates can handle the aforementioned threats well, feel free to use a Modest nature to provide extra power. While Magmar can use different Hidden Power types to hit specific Pokemon, such as Hidden Power Rock for Fire-type Pokemon or Hidden Power Ice for Altaria, Hidden Power Grass is the most consistently useful, hitting a number of targets such as Golem, Carracosta, and Seismitoad much more reliably than Focus Blast. Will-O-Wisp is another solid option for the fourth moveslot and lets Magmar cripple opponents that aren't hit hard by its attacks, but it's worth noting that Magmar can break through most of the move's targets with its respectable power and coverage. Nevertheless, it can be useful for easing prediction when trying to hit opponents as they switch in, and it lets Magmar both bypass Sucker Punch and simultaneously cripple its users. Overheat is available as a more powerful STAB attack, and is especially useful when using Choice Specs, as its drawback is mitigated due to the hit-and-run playstyle of Choice item users. Speaking of Choice items, Magmar can also use a Choice Scarf to boost its Speed, outspeeding all unboosted Pokemon in the tier and most other Choice Scarf users. This lets Magmar act as an effective revenge killer while simultaneously remaining a good switch-in to sleep moves, but the lack of power makes Choice Scarf Magmar much easier to switch into than the Choice Specs set.</p>

    <p>As Magmar's coverage is somewhat lacking compared to its older brother's, it is well worth using teammates to fill in the gaps. Ludicolo is an excellent response to most Water-type Pokemon, and provides insurance against the Rain Dance teams that can walk all over Magmar. Amoonguss is another candidate worth consideration, as it provides a more sturdy response to Rock-type Pokemon, and excels at incapacitating the defensive Pokemon that Magmar can't beat with Spore. As Dragon-type Pokemon can also switch into Magmar's attacks fairly easily, using a Steel-type such as Probopass or Bastiodon may also be useful for blocking their powerful STAB attacks, while Lickilicky and other special walls with instant recovery are exceptionally useful at checking Choice Specs Altaria. In addition, they can provide Stealth Rock support to help ensure that Magmar can secure KOs against healthy opponents, and also act as insurance against Cinccino, which can revenge kill Magmar even when it's behind a Substitute. It's also worth taking measures to prevent residual damage from stacking up on Magmar, as Substitute, Stealth Rock damage, and Life Orb recoil all drain its health quickly over the course of a match. Alomomola can provide Wish support while providing excellent defensive synergy, while anti-leads such as Choice Band Sawk, Fraxure, and Life Orb Rampardos can break through Stealth Rock users with Sturdy, and prevent them from setting up early on in the match. Rapid Spin users can also be used to remove entry hazards from the field, but it's hard to fit many of them into offensive teams; Armaldo is one of the best candidates, as it can threaten many Ghost-types with its powerful Stone Edge.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>While some may be tempted to use an Expert Belt on offensive Magmar to help minimize the residual damage it takes during battle, it's generally not worth using as Magmar's super effective coverage is not as good as its evolution's, and it highly appreciates the extra power when using Fire Blast on neutral targets. Likewise, Leftovers can be used to recuperate health lost through the use of Substitute, but Eviolite has much greater defensive utility overall, and offensive sets prefer using a power boosting item due to Magmar's modest Base 100 Special Attack stat. Likewise, while it can seem like a good idea to use Flame Body to deter opponents, such as Cinccino, Absol, and Samurott, from revenge killing it with contact attacks, Magmar's primary niche within the tier is using Vital Spirit to check the users of sleep moves. Without its signature ability, you're better off using Simisear or Rapidash as your speedy Fire-type Pokemon instead. Additionally, Magmar can run a fully specially defensive set, which boasts fantastic bulk, but can be worn down fairly easily due to its lack of recovery, making Flareon the better choice in general.</p>

    <p>Interestingly, Magmar's base 95 Attack stat lets it go mixed or physically offensive to a degree of success. However, while using physical attacks on Magmar isn't necessarily a bad choice, there are several reasons as to why going specially offensive is generally the best choice. Firstly, Magmar's two best physical STAB attacks are Flare Blitz and Fire Punch, the first of which exaggerates Magmar's weakness to residual damage to ridiculous levels, and the second of which lacks the power to OHKO frail neutral targets. Secondly, while Cross Chop is useful for hitting special walls, such as Lickilicky, slightly harder, it's much worse than Focus Blast against targets such as Regirock and physically defensive Milank, and it's not much more accurate. Finally, while ThunderPunch is still an effective move against most Water-types, it stands no chance of breaking through Alomomola, unlike Hidden Power Grass, which can 2HKO when Magmar uses a Life Orb. All of these factors combine to make Magmar's physical offense generally inferior to its special offense, and with the lack of one-dimensional walls such as Blissey and Cryogonal within the tier, there is little point in using mixed sets. Mach Punch is a notable exception, as it can bypass Sucker Punch users and can 2HKO frail targets such as Cinccino and Absol with a Life Orb after Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>There are a few other niche moves that Magmar can also use, but probably shouldn't. Belly Drum can be used to skyrocket Magmar's attack stat, but it exacerbates its vulnerability to priority moves (and the occasional faster Pokemon) far too much for it to be viable. Flame Charge can be used to boost Magmar's Speed, but again, it doesn't provide insurance against the likes of Absol and Skuntank, and it's an extremely easy attack for opponents to switch into. Clear Smog can be used to prevent bulky boosters such as Calm Mind Musharna from setting up against it, but as Magmar lacks any recovery options, they can just as easily wear it down with repeated attacks. Sunny Day is an interesting choice, as Magmar can set up the move when it switches into the likes of Amoonguss and Tangela, and using SolarBeam significantly improves its coverage against Water-type Pokemon. However, it faces competition from the likes of Rapidash and Charizard, which have higher Base speeds and can become larger offensive threats via Flash Fire and Solar Power, respectively.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Unlike its older brother, Magmar can be fairly easily countered, as it lacks the former's access to Thunderbolt and massive base 125 Special Attack stat, and it can only use three coverage attacks at once. For instance, Grumpig is an absolute full stop, taking pitiful damage from all of Magmar's attacks, and being able to remove burns from Will-O-Wisp via Heal Bell. Flash Fire Pokemon such as Flareon and Lampent are also excellent responses in general, taking nothing from its most powerful attack and being able to either dispense Wishes with impunity or strike back with STAB Shadow Ball, respectively. Frillish is another hard counter; although it can be hit for somewhat decent damage by Hidden Power Grass, it can use Recover to easily offset Magmar's damage output, and it can strike back with either Night Shade or Scald to wear Magmar down over time.</p>

    <p>Furthermore, several Pokemon become excellent checks to Magmar depending on what Hidden Power type it chooses to run. Without Hidden Power Grass, more commonplace Water-type Pokemon such as Samurott and Gorebyss can easily switch in and threaten Magmar with their respective STAB attacks and boosting options, although the former must watch out for Will-O-Wisp if it lacks a Lum Berry. If it lacks Hidden Power Rock, opposing Fire-types can switch into Magmar's STAB attacks and threaten it with their coverage moves; Charizard boasts a resistance to Focus Blast while Rapidash can outspeed and deal severe damage even with a resisted Flare Blitz, especially if it switches into a Fire-type attack. Without Hidden Power Ice, Altaria becomes a full stop to Magmar, taking almost nothing from its attacks, healing its HP with Roost or Rest, and bypassing status effects through Natural Cure. Furthermore, it can quickly become a problem as it sets up with Dragon Dance or fires off Draco Meteors for free. Likewise, without Hidden Power Electric, Swanna and Mantine can switch into Magmar fairly easily and proceed to set up.</p>

    <p>Finally, it's fairly easy to revenge kill Magmar with faster physical attackers. Cinccino and Tauros can easily OHKO Magmar with their STAB attacks if it lacks Eviolite, with the former being able to break through its Substitutes, while Swellow can switch into Will-O-Wisp with impunity and proceed to fire off powerful Facades. Priority attack users can also stop Magmar with ease; Samurott and Carracosta can cool its jets with their Aqua Jets while Absol, Skuntank, and Cacturne can use Sucker Punch to deal with Magmar. However, be aware that Magmar can, and often will, use Substitute or Will-O-Wisp to provide protection against Sucker Punch, so it's not a foolproof method by any means, compounded by the fact that none of its users can switch into Magmar's Fire Blast safely.</p>

    Alright, this is ready for GP checks now. :)
  2. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Maybe consider slashing Lava Plume in with Fire Blast. It's less powerful, but it's more accurate and it has an increased burn chance and you don't have to use WoW as much with it.

    The sets look fine otherwise. Maybe move Substitute down to the 3rd slot on the first set because Magmar can't use Substitute that reliably, but it's always nice for stuff like Amoonguss.
  3. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Substitute's mostly just there for aesthetic reasons, I don't really see the problem in it being first, and it's more consistent with other analyses. Other than that, I'll work on teammates, checks and counters tomorrow.
  4. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
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    max speed on Magmar is useless since it has a unique speed tier

    use this instead:

    EVs: 232 Spe / 252 SAtk / 24 HP

    It allows you to outrun positive nature base 90s like Pikachu and Zangoose, rare, but more efficient than max speed. I'm also not sold on Substitute on the second set, Sub + SR + LO seems pretty suicidal, Overheat should be the main slash in my opinion
  5. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Thanks, changed the EV spread. Substitute is necessary to avoid being destroyed by Sucker Punch users, and Magmar's other coverage moves are very niche. From my experience with Magmortar, I've found it's a pretty effective choice, even with LO recoil. So long as you're not reckless with it, it's fine in my opinion. Overheat is also kind of lame and is only there for Specs. I'm considering putting Psychic over it so you can beat Emboar...

    Oh, and this is ready for QC checks now.
  6. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    • Mention access to Lava Plume as another reason to use Magmar over Simisear
    • Mention that Magmar is fairly easy to ware down because of SR, no recovery, and Substitute in the set comment of the first set
    • Mention Wish support in first set AC. Alomomola is especially notable because it checks a lot of things that beats Magmar and has really high HP wishes. Magmar also does well against quite a few of Alomomola's checks.
    • Add the following Pokemon to c&c: Lampent, Mantine, Frillish, and Flareon. Lampent and Mantine are especially notable for taking basically nothing from any of Magmar's attacks and being able to set-up on Magmar with Substitute and Rain Dance, respectively.

    • See the part I bolded? Add "for Hidden Power" after it.

    After you make all of these changes,
    [qc]1/3[/qc]

    Great skeleton as always, erisia. Keep up the good work.
  7. Django

    Django
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    Cannot find anything to add here, stop writing such good skeletons!

    QC APPROVE 2/3
  8. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    So I spent awhile looking for something to add and couldn't find anything.

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  9. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Alright, thanks for agreeing I'm perfect guys. :) I'll write this up eventually.
  10. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Alright, so I wrote this up eventually. :p
  11. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego The little hand says it's time to rock and roll
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    [Overview]

    <p>With Amoonguss rapidly becoming the most popular Pokemon in the NU tier, Magmortar's ability to counter it with impunity is more vital than ever. However, as Magmortar has now moved up to RU, its little brother Magmar will have to do. While it's certainly not as powerful as Emboar or Charizard, Magmar remains as one of the most foolproof responses to Grass-type Pokemon in general, with its Vital Spirit letting it switch into the Spores and Sleep Powders that pester almost every team. Its decent Special Defense, alongside its good set of resistances and the ability to use Eviolite, also let it take their STAB attacks extremely well. Meanwhile, Magmar's offensive stats are still high enough for it to pose a threat, with a powerful Fire Blast dealing severe damage to frail sweepers and Fire-weak targets, and Base 93 Speed letting it outspeed much of the unboosted metagame. However, while Magmar is definitely capable as an offensive Pokemon, it's certainly not as overwhelming as its older brother, lacking Thunderbolt and thus having difficulty against Water-type Pokemon as a result. Furthermore, aside from its Vital Spirit and access to Eviolite, it's actually outclassed by the faster and more versatile Simisear; thus you must ensure that you're using Magmar to its strengths, or you shouldn't bother using it at all. Overall, while Magmar doesn't come close to the level of power that Magmortar once provided, it can still fill an important role within the tier, and shouldn't be underestimated.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Fire Blast / Lava Plume
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Vital Spirit
    nature: Modest
    evs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With this set, Magmar fills the role of a bulky tank that specializes in removing Grass-type Pokemon with as much certainty as possible. Common Grass-type tanks such as Amoonguss, Exeggutor, and Tangela, (RC) have next to no chance of breaking through Magmar before it can kill them with its STAB attack of choice. For instance, with the given HP investment and Eviolite equipped, standard Amoonguss can't hope to destroy Magmar's Substitute in one hit, while a Psychic from even Choice Specs Exeggutor will never OHKO Magmar, even after it's switched into Stealth Rock. Importantly, its Vital Spirit ensures that Spores and Sleep Powders, the tools that Grass-type Pokemon love to use to get around their usual counters, are completely ineffective, and allows Magmar to protect its teammates from Sleep moves by switching into them directly. In combination with Magmar's naturally high base Speed, this makes it very difficult for Grass-type Pokemon to do anything at all when faced with the flaming duck, forcing them to either switch out or be defeated.</p>

    <p>Meanwhile, Magmar retains several qualities that make it useful on teams outside of this specific niche. Resistances to Bug-, Fire-, and Ice-type attacks allow it to switch into a multitude of attacks, while Eviolite lets Magmar take even powerful neutral special attacks extremely well. For instance, Life Orb Haunter can't 2HKO with any of its attacks so long as Stealth Rock is kept off the field. Furthermore, Magmar certainly isn't a sitting duck, as its Fire Blast holds a lot of power and can OHKO a lot of frail targets, such as the aforementioned Haunter, Cinccino, and Swellow, while Lava Plume threatens anything that attempts to switch into Magmar with a crippling Burn. Once Magmar switches into battle, it can set up a Substitute against bulky opponents to block status moves or weak attacks, and then proceed to either burn targets directly with Will-O-Wisp or hit them hard with a STAB attack or coverage move. Overall, while Magmar isn't a conventional choice for a Fire-type Pokemon, it is by far the best candidate for countering Grass-type Pokemon, and still retains a lot of utility in other situations.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The aim of the EV spread is to maximize Magmar's attacking power, give it enough Speed to outrun the majority of defensive Pokemon, and enough bulk to take the various STAB and coverage moves that Grass-type Pokemon wield with ease. With 44 Speed EVs and a neutral nature, Magmar can outspeed Adamant Torterra, not only letting it revenge kill it easily, but also letting it speed tie with the myriad other Pokemon that try to reach the Speed tier. Meanwhile, 212 HP EVs ensure that standard Amoonguss can only deal 20.37 - 24.07% damage with its Sludge Bomb. More EVs can be invested in bulk to let Magmar's Substitutes withstand more powerful attacks, such as defensive Exeggutor's Psychic or Tangela's Hidden Power Rock, although this detracts from Magmar's offense significantly and makes it harder to secure kills.</p>

    <p>Fire Blast is the more powerful of Magmar's STAB attacks, and is extremely efficient at cutting down Grass-type Pokemon, as well as 2HKOing bulky opponents such as offensive Gardevoir and bulky Skuntank. However, Lava Plume is also extremely useful due to its high burn chance; running it also makes you less reliant on using Will-O-Wisp to burn targets, letting you use a third attack in that moveslot instead. Focus Blast is the best coverage move that Magmar has, hitting Rock-types such as Regirock hard, in addition to bulky Normal-type Pokemon such as Miltank and Lickilicky. Unfortunately, Magmar can't generate high enough temperatures to ionize air like its older brother, and thus doesn't get access to Thunderbolt. Hidden Power Grass is your best option for hitting Water-type Pokemon (although you're probably better off switching out) while also hitting targets such as Golem and Carracosta much more reliably. Other Hidden Power types can be used to hit specific targets, such as Hidden Power Rock for a better option against opposing Fire-type Pokemon, or Hidden Power Ice to hit Altaria and other Dragons for decent damage.</p>

    <p>As Magmar counters Grass-type Pokemon extremely well, teammates that struggle against them really appreciate Magmar's support. Golem and Carracosta are especially grateful, and can also use Stealth Rock to help augment Magmar's damage output, in addition to dealing with opposing Fire-type Pokemon. Likewise, Pokemon that would rather have physically offensive opponents burned, such as Calm Mind Musharna and Swords Dance Lickilicky, also benefit greatly from Magmar's presence on a team. While Magmar provides a lot of team support, it isn't as independent as its evolution, and requires help getting past specific opponents. Water-type Pokemon such as Samurott and Gorebyss are a colossol pain for Magmar to deal with, so using an Amoonguss to incapacitate them, or a Ludicolo to counter-sweep them, is a good idea. Users of Rock Blast, particularly Cinccino, can also break through Magmar's Substitutes and OHKO it regardless, so packing a sturdy Rock resist such as Gurdurr can be helpful. Finally, as Magmar is both weak to Stealth Rock and inclined to use Substitute a lot, it can be worn down quite easily over the course of the match. Alomomola can alleviate these issues by passing it enormous Wishes, and is also an exceptional response to many of Magmar's checks and counters. Using a Rapid Spinner such as Armaldo to mitigate entry hazard damage is also useful, if you can afford to run one on your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Substitute / Psychic
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Vital Spirit
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Here, Magmar aims to follow more directly in its older brother's footsteps by running an all-out attacking set, being fast enough to outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame, but losing power and bulk in comparison. With a level of power slightly higher than Choice Scarf Magmortar, it still has enough power to secure KOs on slower offensive opponents, as well as faster ones that try to switch in, while retaining the ability to switch between moves. However, while Magmar is certainly a capable attacker, it must be considered that Vital Spirit is the only real reason for using it over the faster and more versatile Simisear, making it a good offensive response to sleep moves, which many teams can struggle to deal with. Thus, offensive Magmar is just as valuable as a pivot into Grass-types as a general revenge killer, and you should ensure that it sees significant use as the former to avoid being outclassed.</p>

    <p>Magmar can run a Life Orb or Choice Specs equally well, with both items being important for increasing damage output. When using a Life Orb, Magmar can opt to use Substitute to play around Sucker Punch users such as Absol, Skuntank, and Golem, scoring a free hit on them the turn later. On the other hand, Choice Specs can be used to minimize recoil damage and maximize power; in this case, Psychic is the best option for a fourth attack, as it can reliably deal with Emboar, which can otherwise tank a Focus Blast or resisted attack if necessary. Overall, while Magmar isn't the best Fire-type attacker in the tier, it's still extremely competent, and its ability to switch into Sleep moves gives it a useful niche for teams that require it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Generally, a Timid nature is the most useful as it allows Magmar to outspeed Jolly Sawk, Pinsir, and Zangoose. However, even with a Modest nature, Magmar still outspeeds postive base 80s, so if your other teammates can handle the aforementioned threats well, feel free to use a Modest nature to provide extra power. While Magmar can use different Hidden Power types to hit specific Pokemon, such as Hidden Power Rock for Fire-type Pokemon or Hidden Power Ice for Altaria, Hidden Power Grass is the most consistently useful, hitting a number of targets such as Golem, Carracosta, and Seismitoad much more reliably than Focus Blast. Will-O-Wisp is another solid option for the fourth moveslot, and lets you cripple opponents that aren't hit hard by Magmar's attacks, but it's worth noting that Magmar can break through most of the move's targets with its respectable power and coverage. Nevertheless, it can be useful for easing prediction when trying to hit opponents as they switch in, and it lets Magmar both bypass Sucker Punch and simultaneously cripple its users. Overheat is available as a more powerful STAB attack, and is especially useful on when using Choice Specs, as its drawback is mitigated due to the hit-and-run playstyle of Choice item users. Speaking of Choice items, Magmar can also use a Choice Scarf to boost its Speed, outspeeding all unboosted Pokemon in the tier and most other Choice Scarf users. This lets Magmar act as an effective revenge killer while simultaneously remaining a good switch-in to sleep moves, but the lack of power makes Choice Scarf Magmar much easier to switch into than the Choice Specs set.</p>

    <p>As Magmar's coverage is somewhat lacking compared to its older brother's, it is well worth using teammates to fill in gaps in Magmar's offensive coverage. Ludicolo is an excellent response to most Water-type Pokemon, and provides insurance against the Rain Dance teams that can walk all over Magmar. Amoonguss is another candidate worth consideration, as it provides a more sturdy response to Rock-type Pokemon, and excels at incapacitating the defensive Pokemon that Magmar can't beat with Spore. As Dragon-type Pokemon can also switch into Magmar's attacks fairly easily, using a Steel-type such as Probopass or Bastiodon may also be useful for blocking their powerful STAB attacks, while Lickilicky and other special walls with instant recovery are exceptionally useful at checking Choice Specs Altaria. In addition, they can provide Stealth Rock support to help ensure that Magmar can secure KOs against healthy opponents, and also act as insurance against Cinccino, which can revenge kill Magmar even when it's behind a Substitute. It's also worth taking measures to prevent residual damage from stacking up on Magmar, as Substitute, Stealth Rock damage, and Life Orb recoil all drain its health quickly over the course of a match. Alomomola can provide Wish support while providing excellent defensive synergy, while anti-leads such as Choice Band Fraxure and Life Orb Rampardos can break through Stealth Rock users with Sturdy and prevent them from setting up early on in the match. Rapid Spin users can also be used to remove entry hazards from the field, but it's hard to fit many of them into offensive teams; Armaldo is one of the best candidates, as it can still threaten many Ghost-types with its powerful Stone Edge.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>While some may be tempted to use an Expert Belt on offensive Magmar to help minimise the residual damage it takes during battle, it's generally not worth using, as Magmar's super effective coverage is not as good as its evolution's, and it highly appreciates the extra power when using Fire Blast on neutral targets. Likewise, Leftovers can be used to recuperate health lost through the use of Substitute, but Eviolite has much greater defensive utility overall, and offensive sets prefer using a power boosting item due to Magmar's modest Base 100 Special Attack stat. Likewise, while it can seem like a good idea to use Flame Body to deter opponents such as Cinccino, Absol, and Samurott, from revenge killing it with contact attacks, Magmar's primary niche within the tier is using Vital Spirit to check the users of Sleep moves. Without its signature ability, you're better off using Simisear or Rapidash as your speedy Fire-type Pokemon instead. Additionally, Magmar can run a fully specially defensive set, which boasts fantastic bulk, but can be worn down fairly easily due to its lack of recovery, making Flareon the better choice in general.</p>

    <p>Interestingly, Magmar's Base 95 Attack stat lets it go mixed or physically offensive to a degree of success. However, while using physical attacks on Magmar isn't necessarily a bad choice, there are several reasons as to why going specially offensive is generally the best choice. Firstly, Magmar's two best physical STAB attacks are Flare Blitz and Fire Punch, (comma) the first of which exaggerates Magmar's weakness to residual damage to ridiculous levels, and the second of which lacks the power to OHKO frail neutral targets. Secondly, while Cross Chop is useful for hitting special walls such as Lickilicky slightly harder, it's much worse than Focus Blast against targets such as Regirock and physically defensive Milank, and it's not much more accurate. Finally, while ThunderPunch is still an effective move against most Water-types, it stands no chance of breaking through Alomomola, unlike Hidden Power Grass, which can 2HKO when Magmar uses a Life Orb. All of these factors combine to make Magmar's physical offense generally inferior to its special offense, and with the lack of one-dimensional walls such as Blissey and Cryogonal within the tier, there is little point in using them on mixed sets. Mach Punch is a notable exception, as it can bypass Sucker Punch users and can 2HKO frail, Fighting-weak targets such as Cinccino and Absol with a Life Orb after Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>There are a few other niche moves that Magmar can also use, but probably shouldn't. Belly Drum can be used to skyrocket Magmar's attack stat, but it exacerbates its vulnerability to priority moves (and the occasional faster Pokemon) far too much for it to be viable. Flame Charge can be used to boost Magmar's Speed, but again, it doesn't provide insurance against the likes of Absol and Skuntank, and it's an extremely easy attack for opponents to switch into. Clear Smog can be used to prevent bulky boosters such as Calm Mind Musharna from setting up against it, but as Magmar lacks any recovery options, they can just as easily wear it down with repeated attacks. And, as usual, Flamethrower is available as an alternative STAB option should you dislike Fire Blast's accuracy, although as Magmar needs as much power as it can get to be effective, the latter is usually the better choice.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Unlike its older brother, Magmar can be fairly easily countered, as it lacks access to Thunderbolt, the former's massive Base 125 Special Attack stat, and it can only use three coverage attacks at once. For instance, Grumpig is an absolute full stop, taking pitiful damage from all of Magmar's attacks, and being able to remove burns from Will-O-Wisp via Heal Bell. Flash Fire Pokemon such as Flareon and Lampent are also excellent responses in general, taking nothing from its most powerful attack and being able to either dispense Wishes with impunity or strike back with STAB Shadow Ball, (AC) respectively. Frillish is another hard counter; although it can be hit for somewhat decent damage by Hidden Power Grass, it can use Recover to easily offset Magmar's damage output, and it can strike back with either Night Shade or Scald to wear Magmar down over time.</p>

    <p>Furthermore, several Pokemon become excellent checks to Magmar depending on what Hidden Power type it chooses to run. Without Hidden Power Grass, more commonplace Water-type Pokemon such as Samurott and Gorebyss can easily switch in and threaten Magmar with their respective STAB attacks and boosting options, although the former must watch out for Will-O-Wisps if it lacks a Lum Berry. If it lacks Hidden Power Rock, opposing Fire-types can switch into Magmar's STAB attacks and threaten it with their coverage moves; Charizard boasts a resistance to Focus Blast while Rapidash can outspeed and deal severe damage even with a resisted Flare Blitz, especially if it switches into a Fire-type attack. Without Hidden Power Ice, Altaria becomes a full stop to Magmar, taking almost nothing from its attacks, healing its HP with Roost or Rest and bypassing status effects through Natural Cure. Furthermore, it can quickly become a problem as it sets up with Dragon Dance or fires off Draco Meteors for free. Likewise, without Hidden Power Electric, Swanna and Mantine can switch into Magmar fairly easily and proceed to set up sweeps.</p>

    <p>Finally, it's fairly easy to revenge kill Magmar with faster physical attackers. Cinccino and Tauros can easily OHKO Magmar with their STAB attacks if it lacks Eviolite, with the former being able to break through its Substitutes, while Swellow can switch into Will-O-Wisps with impunity and proceed to fire off powerful Facades. Priority attack users can also stop Magmar with ease; Samurott and Carracosta can cool its jets with their Aqua Jets while Absol, Skuntank, and Cacturne can use Sucker Punch to deal with Magmar. However, be aware that Magmar can, and often will, use Substitute or Will-O-Wisp to provide protection against Sucker Punch, so it's not a foolproof method by any means, compounded by the fact that none of its users can switch into Magmar's Fire Blast safely.</p>
  12. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    Thanks, implemented check, and added a mention of Sunny Day in the OO.
  13. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    Amateur GP check. Take whatever you think is useful from it.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    Overview]

    <p>With Amoonguss rapidly becoming one of the most popular Pokemon in the NU tier, Magmortar's ability to counter it with impunity is would have been more vital than ever. However, as Magmortar has now moved up to RU, its little brother Magmar will have to do. While it's certainly not as powerful as Emboar or Charizard, Magmar remains as one of the most foolproof responses to Grass-type Pokemon in general, with its Vital Spirit letting it switch into the Spores and Sleep Powders that pester almost every team. Its decent Special Defense, alongside its good set of resistances and the ability to use Eviolite, also let it take their STAB attacks extremely well. Meanwhile, Magmar's offensive stats are still high enough for it to pose a threat, with a powerful Fire Blast dealing severe damage to frail sweepers and Fire-weak targets, and Base 93 Speed letting it outspeed much of the unboosted metagame. However, while Magmar is definitely capable as an offensive Pokemon, it's certainly not as overwhelming as its older brother, lacking Thunderbolt and thus having difficulty against Water-type Pokemon as a result. Furthermore, aside from its Vital Spirit and access to Eviolite, it's actually outclassed by the faster and more versatile Simisear; thus you must ensure that you're using Magmar to its strengths, or you shouldn't bother using it at all. Overall, while Magmar doesn't come close to the level of power that Magmortar once provided, it can still fill an important role within the tier, and shouldn't be underestimated.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Fire Blast / Lava Plume
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Vital Spirit
    nature: Modest
    evs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With this set, Magmar fills the role of a bulky tank that specializes in removing Grass-type Pokemon with as much certainty as possible. Common Grass-type tanks such as Amoonguss, Exeggutor, and Tangela have next to no chance of breaking through Magmar before it can kill them with its STAB attack of choice. For instance, with the given HP investment and Eviolite equipped, standard Amoonguss can't hope to destroy Magmar's Substitute in one hit, while a Psychic from even Choice Specs Exeggutor will never OHKO Magmar, even after it's switched into Stealth Rock. Importantly, its Vital Spirit ensures that Spores and Sleep Powders, the tools that Grass-type Pokemon love to use to get around their usual counters, are completely ineffective, and allows Magmar to protect its teammates from Sleep moves by switching into them directly. In combination with Magmar's naturally high base Speed, this makes it very difficult for Grass-type Pokemon to do anything at all when faced with the flaming duck, forcing them to either switch out or be defeated.</p>

    <p>Meanwhile, Magmar retains several qualities that make it useful on teams outside of this specific niche. Resistances to Bug-, Fire-, and Ice-type attacks moves (probably not 100% necessary if you don't like the change, but using 'attacks' twice within 10 words looked a little redundant to me) allow it to switch into a multitude of attacks, while Eviolite lets Magmar take even powerful neutral special attacks extremely well. For instance, Life Orb Haunter can't 2HKO with any of its attacks so long as Stealth Rock is kept off the field. Furthermore, Magmar certainly isn't a sitting duck, as its Fire Blast holds a lot of power and can OHKO a lot of frail targets, such as the aforementioned Haunter, Cinccino, and Swellow, while Lava Plume threatens anything that attempts to switch into Magmar with a crippling burn. Once Magmar switches into battle, it can set up a Substitute against bulky opponents to block status moves or weak attacks, and then proceed to either burn targets directly with Will-O-Wisp or hit them hard with a STAB attack or coverage move. Overall, while Magmar isn't a conventional choice for a Fire-type Pokemon, it is by far the best candidate for countering Grass-type Pokemon, and still retains a lot of utility in other situations.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The aim of the EV spread is to maximize Magmar's attacking power, give it enough Speed to outrun the majority of defensive Pokemon, and grant it/allow it/ensure it/a word you like better (you want parallel structure when you list things in a series) enough bulk to take the various STAB and coverage moves that Grass-type Pokemon wield with ease. With 44 Speed EVs and a neutral nature, Magmar can outspeed Adamant Torterra, not only letting it revenge kill it easily, but also letting it Speed tie with the myriad other Pokemon that try to reach the this Speed tier. Meanwhile, 212 HP EVs ensure that standard Amoonguss can only deal 20.37 - 24.07% damage with its Sludge Bomb. More EVs can be invested in bulk to let Magmar's Substitutes withstand more powerful attacks, such as defensive Exeggutor's Psychic or Tangela's Hidden Power Rock, although this detracts from Magmar's offense significantly and makes it harder to secure kills.</p>

    <p>Fire Blast is the more powerful of Magmar's STAB attacks, and is extremely efficient at cutting down Grass-type Pokemon, as well as 2HKOing bulky opponents such as offensive Gardevoir and bulky Skuntank. However, Lava Plume is also extremely useful due to its high burn chance; running it also makes you less reliant on using Will-O-Wisp to burn targets, letting you use a third attack in that moveslot instead. Focus Blast is the best coverage move that Magmar has, hitting Rock-types such as Regirock hard, in addition to bulky Normal-type Pokemon such as Miltank and Lickilicky. Unfortunately, Magmar can't generate high enough temperatures to ionize air like its older brother, and thus doesn't get access to Thunderbolt. Hidden Power Grass is your best option for hitting Water-type Pokemon (although you're probably better off switching out) while also hitting targets such as Golem and Carracosta much more reliably. Other Hidden Power types can be used to hit specific targets, such as Hidden Power Rock for a better option against opposing Fire-type Pokemon, or Hidden Power Ice to hit Altaria and other Dragons for decent damage.</p>

    <p>As Magmar counters Grass-type Pokemon extremely well, teammates that struggle against them really appreciate Magmar's support. Golem and Carracosta are especially grateful, and can also use Stealth Rock to help augment Magmar's damage output, in addition to dealing with opposing Fire-type Pokemon. Likewise, Pokemon that would rather have physically offensive opponents burned, such as Calm Mind Musharna and Swords Dance Lickilicky, also benefit greatly from Magmar's presence on a team. While Magmar provides a lot of team support, it isn't as independent as its evolution, and requires help getting past specific opponents. Water-type Pokemon such as Samurott and Gorebyss are a colossol colossal pain for Magmar to deal with, so using an Amoonguss to incapacitate them, or a Ludicolo to counter-sweep them, is a good idea. Users of Rock Blast, particularly Cinccino, can also break through Magmar's Substitutes and OHKO it regardless, so packing a sturdy resist such as Gurdurr can be helpful. Finally, as Magmar is both weak to Stealth Rock and inclined to use Substitute a lot, it can be worn down quite easily over the course of the match. Alomomola can alleviate these issues by passing it enormous Wishes, and is also an exceptional response to many of Magmar's checks and counters. Using a Rapid Spinner such as Armaldo to mitigate entry hazard damage is also useful, if you can afford to run one on your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Substitute / Psychic
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Vital Spirit
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Here, Magmar aims to follow more directly in its older brother's footsteps by running an all-out attacking set, being fast enough to outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame, but losing power and bulk in comparison. With a level of power slightly higher than Choice Scarf Magmortar, it still has enough power to secure KOs on slower offensive opponents, as well as faster ones that try to switch in, while retaining the ability to switch between moves. However, while Magmar is certainly a capable attacker, it must be considered remembered that Vital Spirit is the only real reason for using it over the faster and more versatile Simisear, making it a good offensive response to sleep moves, which many teams can struggle to deal with. Thus, offensive Magmar is just as valuable as a pivot into Grass-types as a general revenge killer, and you should ensure that it sees significant use as the former to avoid being outclassed.</p>

    <p>Magmar can run a Life Orb or Choice Specs equally well, with both items being important for increasing damage output. When using a Life Orb, Magmar can opt to use Substitute to play around Sucker Punch users such as Absol, Skuntank, and Golem, scoring a free hit on them the one turn later (or 'the next turn' or 'on the next turn' or something else you like better). On the other hand, Choice Specs can be used to minimize recoil damage and maximize power; in this case, Psychic is the best option for a fourth attack, as it can reliably deal with Emboar, which can otherwise tank a Focus Blast or resisted attack if necessary. Overall, while Magmar isn't the best Fire-type attacker in the tier, it's still extremely competent, and its ability to switch into Sleep moves gives it a useful niche for teams that require it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Generally, a Timid nature is the most useful as it allows Magmar to outspeed Jolly Sawk, Pinsir, and Zangoose. However, even with a Modest nature, Magmar still outspeeds postive base 80s, so if your other teammates can handle the aforementioned threats well, feel free to use a Modest nature to provide extra power. While Magmar can use different Hidden Power types to hit specific Pokemon, such as Hidden Power Rock for Fire-type Pokemon or Hidden Power Ice for Altaria, Hidden Power Grass is the most consistently useful, hitting a number of targets such as Golem, Carracosta, and Seismitoad much more reliably than Focus Blast. Will-O-Wisp is another solid option for the fourth moveslot, (remove comma) and lets you cripple opponents that aren't hit hard by Magmar's attacks, but it's worth noting that Magmar can break through most of the move's targets with its respectable power and coverage. Nevertheless, it can be useful for easing prediction when trying to hit opponents as they switch in, and it lets Magmar both bypass Sucker Punch and simultaneously cripple its users. Overheat is available as a more powerful STAB attack, and is especially useful on when using Choice Specs, as its drawback is mitigated due to the hit-and-run playstyle of Choice item users. Speaking of Choice items, Magmar can also use a Choice Scarf to boost its Speed, outspeeding all unboosted Pokemon in the tier and most other Choice Scarf users. This lets Magmar act as an effective revenge killer while simultaneously remaining a good switch-in to sleep moves, but the lack of power makes Choice Scarf Magmar much easier to switch into than the Choice Specs set.</p>

    <p>As Magmar's coverage is somewhat lacking compared to its older brother's, it is well worth using teammates to fill in the gaps in Magmar's offensive coverage. Ludicolo is an excellent response to most Water-type Pokemon, and provides insurance against the Rain Dance teams that can walk all over Magmar. Amoonguss is another candidate worth consideration, as it provides a more sturdy response to Rock-type Pokemon, and excels at incapacitating the defensive Pokemon that Magmar can't beat with Spore. As Dragon-type Pokemon can also switch into Magmar's attacks fairly easily, using a Steel-type such as Probopass or Bastiodon may also be useful for blocking their powerful STAB attacks, while Lickilicky and other special walls with instant recovery are exceptionally useful at checking Choice Specs Altaria. In addition, they can provide Stealth Rock support to help ensure that Magmar can secure KOs against healthy opponents, and also act as insurance against Cinccino, which can revenge kill Magmar even when it's behind a Substitute. It's also worth taking measures to prevent residual damage from stacking up on Magmar, as Substitute, Stealth Rock damage, and Life Orb recoil all drain its health quickly over the course of a match. Alomomola can provide Wish support while providing excellent defensive synergy, while anti-leads such as Choice Band Fraxure and Life Orb Rampardos can break through Stealth Rock users with Sturdy, and prevent them from setting up early on in the match. Rapid Spin users can also be used to remove entry hazards from the field, but it's hard to fit many of them into offensive teams; Armaldo is one of the best candidates, as it can still threaten many Ghost-types with its powerful Stone Edge.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>While some may be tempted to use an Expert Belt on offensive Magmar to help minimise minimize the residual damage it takes during battle, it's generally not worth using, as Magmar's super effective coverage is not as good as its evolution's, and it highly appreciates the extra power when using Fire Blast on neutral targets. Likewise, Leftovers can be used to recuperate health lost through the use of Substitute, but Eviolite has much greater defensive utility overall, and offensive sets prefer using a power boosting item due to Magmar's modest Base 100 Special Attack stat. Likewise, while it can seem like a good idea to use Flame Body to deter opponents such as Cinccino, Absol, and Samurott, from revenge killing it with contact attacks, Magmar's primary niche within the tier is using Vital Spirit to check the users of Sleep moves. Without its signature ability, you're better off using Simisear or Rapidash as your speedy Fire-type Pokemon instead. Additionally, Magmar can run a fully specially defensive set, which boasts fantastic bulk, but can be worn down fairly easily due to its lack of recovery, making Flareon the better choice in general.</p>

    <p>Interestingly, Magmar's Base 95 Attack stat lets it go mixed or physically offensive to a degree of success. However, while using physical attacks on Magmar isn't necessarily a bad choice, there are several reasons as to why going specially offensive is generally the best choice. Firstly, Magmar's two best physical STAB attacks are Flare Blitz and Fire Punch, the first of which exaggerates Magmar's weakness to residual damage to ridiculous levels, and the second of which lacks the power to OHKO frail neutral targets. Secondly, while Cross Chop is useful for hitting special walls such as Lickilicky slightly harder, it's much worse than Focus Blast against targets such as Regirock and physically defensive Milank, and it's not much more accurate. Finally, while ThunderPunch is still an effective move against most Water-types, it stands no chance of breaking through Alomomola, unlike Hidden Power Grass, which can 2HKO when Magmar uses a Life Orb. All of these factors combine to make Magmar's physical offense generally inferior to its special offense, and with the lack of one-dimensional walls such as Blissey and Cryogonal within the tier, there is little point in using them on mixed sets. Mach Punch is a notable exception, as it can bypass Sucker Punch users and can 2HKO frail targets such as Cinccino and Absol with a Life Orb after Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>There are a few other niche moves that Magmar can also use, but probably shouldn't. Belly Drum can be used to skyrocket Magmar's attack stat, but it exacerbates its vulnerability to priority moves (and the occasional faster Pokemon) far too much for it to be viable. Flame Charge can be used to boost Magmar's Speed, but again, it doesn't provide insurance against the likes of Absol and Skuntank, and it's an extremely easy attack for opponents to switch into. Clear Smog can be used to prevent bulky boosters such as Calm Mind Musharna from setting up against it, but as Magmar lacks any recovery options, they can just as easily wear it down with repeated attacks. Sunny Day is an interesting choice, as Magmar can set up the move when it switches into the likes of Amoonguss and Tangela, and using SolarBeam significantly improves its coverage against Water-type Pokemon. However, it faces competition from the likes of Rapidash and Charizard, which have higher Base Speeds and can become larger offensive threats via Flash Fire and Solar Power respectively.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Unlike its older brother, Magmar can be fairly easily countered, as it lacks the former's access to Thunderbolt, (remove comma) and the former's massive Base 125 Special Attack stat, and it can only use three coverage attacks at once. For instance, Grumpig is an absolute full stop, taking pitiful damage from all of Magmar's attacks, and being able to remove burns from Will-O-Wisp via Heal Bell. Flash Fire Pokemon such as Flareon and Lampent are also excellent responses in general, taking nothing from its most powerful attack and being able to either dispense Wishes with impunity or strike back with STAB Shadow Ball, respectively. Frillish is another hard counter; although it can be hit for somewhat decent damage by Hidden Power Grass, it can use Recover to easily offset Magmar's damage output, and it can strike back with either Night Shade or Scald to wear Magmar down over time.</p>

    <p>Furthermore, several Pokemon become excellent checks to Magmar depending on what Hidden Power type it chooses to run. Without Hidden Power Grass, more commonplace Water-type Pokemon such as Samurott and Gorebyss can easily switch in and threaten Magmar with their respective STAB attacks and boosting options, although the former must watch out for Will-O-Wisp if it lacks a Lum Berry. If it lacks Hidden Power Rock, opposing Fire-types can switch into Magmar's STAB attacks and threaten it with their coverage moves; Charizard boasts a resistance to Focus Blast while Rapidash can outspeed and deal severe damage even with a resisted Flare Blitz, especially if it switches into a Fire-type attack. Without Hidden Power Ice, Altaria becomes a full stop to Magmar, taking almost nothing from its attacks, healing its HP with Roost or Rest and bypassing status effects through Natural Cure. Furthermore, it can quickly become a problem as it sets up with Dragon Dance or fires off Draco Meteors for free. Likewise, without Hidden Power Electric, Swanna and Mantine can switch into Magmar fairly easily and proceed to set up.</p>

    <p>Finally, it's fairly easy to revenge kill Magmar with faster physical attackers. Cinccino and Tauros can easily OHKO Magmar with their STAB attacks if it lacks Eviolite, with the former being able to break through its Substitutes, while Swellow can switch into Will-O-Wisp with impunity and proceed to fire off powerful Facades. Priority attack users can also stop Magmar with ease; Samurott and Carracosta can cool its jets with their Aqua Jets while Absol, Skuntank, and Cacturne can use Sucker Punch to deal with Magmar. However, be aware that Magmar can, and often will, use Substitute or Will-O-Wisp to provide protection against Sucker Punch, so it's not a foolproof method by any means, compounded by the fact that none of its users can switch into Magmar's Fire Blast safely.</p>
  14. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    Thanks, agreed with all of your points, check implemented.
  15. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

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    stamping the combo of those two checks

    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  16. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,215
    add
    remove
    comments

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>With Amoonguss being one of the most popular Pokemon in the NU tier, Magmortar's ability to counter it with impunity would have been more vital than ever. However, as Magmortar has now moved up to RU, its little brother Magmar will have to do. While it's certainly not as powerful as Emboar or Charizard, Magmar remains one of the most foolproof responses to Grass-type Pokemon in general, with its Vital Spirit letting it switch into the Spores and Sleep Powders that pester almost every team. Its decent Special Defense, alongside its good set of resistances and ability to use Eviolite, also let it take their STAB attacks extremely well. Meanwhile, Magmar's offensive stats are still high enough for it to pose a threat, with a powerful Fire Blast dealing severe damage to frail sweepers and Fire-weak targets, and base 93 Speed letting it outspeed much of the unboosted metagame. However, while Magmar is definitely capable as an offensive Pokemon, it's certainly not as overwhelming as its older brother, lacking Thunderbolt and thus having difficulty against Water-type Pokemon as a result. Furthermore, aside from its Vital Spirit and access to Eviolite, it's actually outclassed by the faster and more versatile Simisear; thus you must ensure that you're using Magmar to its strengths, or you shouldn't bother using it at all. Overall, while Magmar doesn't come close to the level of power that Magmortar once provided, it can still fill an important role within the tier, and shouldn't be underestimated.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Fire Blast / Lava Plume
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Vital Spirit
    nature: Modest
    evs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With this set, Magmar fills the role of a bulky tank that specializes in removing Grass-type Pokemon with as much certainty as possible. Common Grass-type tanks such as Amoonguss, Exeggutor, and Tangela have next to no chance of breaking through Magmar before it can kill them with its STAB attack of choice. For instance, with the given HP investment and Eviolite equipped, standard Amoonguss can't hope to destroy Magmar's Substitute in one hit, while a Psychic from even Choice Specs Exeggutor will never OHKO Magmar, even after it's switched into Stealth Rock. Importantly, its Vital Spirit ensures that Spores and Sleep Powders, the tools that Grass-type Pokemon love to use to get around their usual counters, are completely ineffective, and allows Magmar to protect its teammates from sleep moves by switching into them directly. In combination with Magmar's naturally high base Speed, this makes it very difficult for Grass-type Pokemon to do anything at all when faced with the flaming duck, forcing them to either switch out or be defeated.</p>

    <p>Meanwhile, Magmar retains several qualities that make it useful on teams outside of this specific niche. Resistances to Bug-, Fire-, and Ice-type attacks, alongside its access to Eviolite, let Magmar take even powerful neutral special attacks extremely well. For instance, Life Orb Haunter can't 2HKO with any of its attacks so long as Stealth Rock is kept off the field. Furthermore, Magmar certainly isn't a sitting duck, as its Fire Blast holds a lot of power and can OHKO a lot of frail targets, such as the aforementioned Haunter, Cinccino, and Swellow, while Lava Plume threatens anything that attempts to switch into Magmar with a crippling burn. Once Magmar switches into battle, it can set up a Substitute against bulky opponents to block status moves or weak attacks, and then proceed to either burn targets directly with Will-O-Wisp or hit them hard with a STAB attack or coverage move. Overall, while Magmar isn't a conventional choice for a Fire-type Pokemon, it is by far the best candidate for countering Grass-type Pokemon, and still retains a lot of utility in other situations.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The aim of the EV spread is to maximize Magmar's attacking power, give it enough Speed to outrun the majority of defensive Pokemon, and grant it enough bulk to take the various STAB and coverage moves that Grass-type Pokemon wield with ease. With 44 Speed EVs and a neutral nature, Magmar can outspeed Adamant Torterra, not only letting it revenge kill it easily, but also letting it Speed tie with the myriad other Pokemon that try to reach this Speed tier. Meanwhile, 212 HP EVs ensure that standard Amoonguss can only deal 20.37 - 24.07% damage with its Sludge Bomb. More EVs can be invested in bulk to let Magmar's Substitutes withstand more powerful attacks, such as defensive Exeggutor's Psychic or Tangela's Hidden Power Rock, although this detracts from Magmar's offense significantly and makes it harder to secure kills.</p>

    <p>Fire Blast is the more powerful of Magmar's STAB attacks, and is extremely efficient at cutting down Grass-type Pokemon, as well as 2HKOing bulky opponents such as offensive Gardevoir and bulky Skuntank. However, Lava Plume is also extremely useful due to its high burn chance; running it also makes you less reliant on using Will-O-Wisp to burn targets, letting you use a third attack in that moveslot instead. Focus Blast is the best coverage move that Magmar has, hitting Rock-types such as Regirock hard, in addition to bulky Normal-type Pokemon such as Miltank and Lickilicky. Unfortunately, Magmar can't generate high enough temperatures to ionize air like its older brother, and thus doesn't get access to Thunderbolt. Hidden Power Grass is your best option for hitting Water-type Pokemon (although you're probably better off switching out) while also hitting targets such as Golem and Carracosta much more reliably. Other Hidden Power types can be used to hit specific targets, such as Hidden Power Rock for a better option against opposing Fire-type Pokemon, or Hidden Power Ice to hit Altaria and other Dragons for decent damage.</p>

    <p>As Magmar counters Grass-type Pokemon extremely well, teammates that struggle against them really appreciate Magmar's support. Golem and Carracosta are especially grateful, and can also use Stealth Rock to help augment Magmar's damage output, in addition to dealing with opposing Fire-type Pokemon. Likewise, Pokemon that would rather have physically offensive opponents burned, such as Calm Mind Musharna and Swords Dance Lickilicky, also benefit greatly from Magmar's presence on a team. While Magmar provides a lot of team support, it isn't as independent as its evolution, and requires help getting past specific opponents. Water-type Pokemon such as Samurott and Gorebyss are a colossal pain for Magmar to deal with, so using an Amoonguss to incapacitate them, or a Ludicolo to counter-sweep them, is a good idea. Users of Rock Blast, particularly Cinccino, can also break through Magmar's Substitutes and OHKO it regardless, so packing a sturdy resist such as Gurdurr can be helpful. Finally, as Magmar is both weak to Stealth Rock and inclined to use Substitute a lot, it can be worn down quite easily over the course of the match. Alomomola can alleviate these issues by passing it enormous Wishes, and is also an exceptional response to many of Magmar's checks and counters. Using a spinner such as Armaldo to mitigate entry hazard damage is also useful, if you can afford to run one on your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Substitute / Psychic
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Vital Spirit
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Here, Magmar aims to follow more directly in its older brother's footsteps by running an all-out attacking set, being fast enough to outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame, but losing power and bulk in comparison. With a level of power slightly higher than Choice Scarf Magmortar, it still has enough power to secure KOs on slower offensive opponents, as well as faster ones that try to switch in, while retaining the ability to switch between moves. However, while Magmar is certainly a capable attacker, it must be remembered that Vital Spirit is the only real reason for using it over the faster and more versatile Simisear, making it a good offensive response to sleep moves, which many teams can struggle to deal with. Thus, offensive Magmar is just as valuable as a pivot into Grass-types as a general revenge killer, and you should ensure that it sees significant use as the former to avoid being outclassed.</p>

    <p>Magmar can run a Life Orb or Choice Specs equally well, with both items being important for increasing damage output. When using a Life Orb, Magmar can opt to use Substitute to play around Sucker Punch users, such as Absol, Skuntank, and Golem, scoring a free hit on them one turn later. On the other hand, Choice Specs can be used to minimize recoil damage and maximize power; in this case, Psychic is the best option for a fourth attack, as it can reliably deal with Emboar, which can otherwise tank a Focus Blast or resisted attack if necessary. Overall, while Magmar isn't the best Fire-type attacker in the tier, it's still extremely competent, and its ability to switch into sleep moves gives it a useful niche for teams that require it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Generally, a Timid nature is the most useful as it allows Magmar to outspeed Jolly Sawk, Pinsir, and Zangoose. However, even with a Modest nature, Magmar still outspeeds positive base 80s, so if your other teammates can handle the aforementioned threats well, feel free to use a Modest nature to provide extra power. While Magmar can use different Hidden Power types to hit specific Pokemon, such as Hidden Power Rock for Fire-type Pokemon or Hidden Power Ice for Altaria, Hidden Power Grass is the most consistently useful, hitting a number of targets such as Golem, Carracosta, and Seismitoad much more reliably than Focus Blast. Will-O-Wisp is another solid option for the fourth moveslot and lets Magmar cripple opponents that aren't hit hard by its attacks, but it's worth noting that Magmar can break through most of the move's targets with its respectable power and coverage. Nevertheless, it can be useful for easing prediction when trying to hit opponents as they switch in, and it lets Magmar both bypass Sucker Punch and simultaneously cripple its users. Overheat is available as a more powerful STAB attack, and is especially useful when using Choice Specs, as its drawback is mitigated due to the hit-and-run playstyle of Choice item users. Speaking of Choice items, Magmar can also use a Choice Scarf to boost its Speed, outspeeding all unboosted Pokemon in the tier and most other Choice Scarf users. This lets Magmar act as an effective revenge killer while simultaneously remaining a good switch-in to sleep moves, but the lack of power makes Choice Scarf Magmar much easier to switch into than the Choice Specs set.</p>

    <p>As Magmar's coverage is somewhat lacking compared to its older brother's, it is well worth using teammates to fill in the gaps. Ludicolo is an excellent response to most Water-type Pokemon, and provides insurance against the Rain Dance teams that can walk all over Magmar. Amoonguss is another candidate worth consideration, as it provides a more sturdy response to Rock-type Pokemon, and excels at incapacitating the defensive Pokemon that Magmar can't beat with Spore. As Dragon-type Pokemon can also switch into Magmar's attacks fairly easily, using a Steel-type such as Probopass or Bastiodon may also be useful for blocking their powerful STAB attacks, while Lickilicky and other special walls with instant recovery are exceptionally useful at checking Choice Specs Altaria. In addition, they can provide Stealth Rock support to help ensure that Magmar can secure KOs against healthy opponents, and also act as insurance against Cinccino, which can revenge kill Magmar even when it's behind a Substitute. It's also worth taking measures to prevent residual damage from stacking up on Magmar, as Substitute, Stealth Rock damage, and Life Orb recoil all drain its health quickly over the course of a match. Alomomola can provide Wish support while providing excellent defensive synergy, while anti-leads such as Choice Band Fraxure, Sawk, and Life Orb Rampardos can break through Stealth Rock users with Sturdy, and prevent them from setting up early on in the match. Rapid Spin users can also be used to remove entry hazards from the field, but it's hard to fit many of them into offensive teams; Armaldo is one of the best candidates, as it can threaten many Ghost-types with its powerful Stone Edge.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>While some may be tempted to use an Expert Belt on offensive Magmar to help minimize the residual damage it takes during battle, it's generally not worth using as Magmar's super effective coverage is not as good as its evolution's, and it highly appreciates the extra power when using Fire Blast on neutral targets. Likewise, Leftovers can be used to recuperate health lost through the use of Substitute, but Eviolite has much greater defensive utility overall, and offensive sets prefer using a power boosting item due to Magmar's modest Base 100 Special Attack stat. Likewise, while it can seem like a good idea to use Flame Body to deter opponents, such as Cinccino, Absol, and Samurott, from revenge killing it with contact attacks, Magmar's primary niche within the tier is using Vital Spirit to check the users of sleep moves. Without its signature ability, you're better off using Simisear or Rapidash as your speedy Fire-type Pokemon instead. Additionally, Magmar can run a fully specially defensive set, which boasts fantastic bulk, but can be worn down fairly easily due to its lack of recovery, making Flareon the better choice in general.</p>

    <p>Interestingly, Magmar's base 95 Attack stat lets it go mixed or physically offensive to a degree of success. However, while using physical attacks on Magmar isn't necessarily a bad choice, there are several reasons as to why going specially offensive is generally the best choice. Firstly, Magmar's two best physical STAB attacks are Flare Blitz and Fire Punch, the first of which exaggerates Magmar's weakness to residual damage to ridiculous levels, and the second of which lacks the power to OHKO frail neutral targets. Secondly, while Cross Chop is useful for hitting special walls, such as Lickilicky, slightly harder, it's much worse than Focus Blast against targets such as Regirock and physically defensive Milank, and it's not much more accurate. Finally, while ThunderPunch is still an effective move against most Water-types, it stands no chance of breaking through Alomomola, unlike Hidden Power Grass, which can 2HKO when Magmar uses a Life Orb. All of these factors combine to make Magmar's physical offense generally inferior to its special offense, and with the lack of one-dimensional walls such as Blissey and Cryogonal within the tier, there is little point in using mixed sets. Mach Punch is a notable exception, as it can bypass Sucker Punch users and can 2HKO frail targets such as Cinccino and Absol with a Life Orb after Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>There are a few other niche moves that Magmar can also use, but probably shouldn't. Belly Drum can be used to skyrocket Magmar's attack stat, but it exacerbates its vulnerability to priority moves (and the occasional faster Pokemon) far too much for it to be viable. Flame Charge can be used to boost Magmar's Speed, but again, it doesn't provide insurance against the likes of Absol and Skuntank, and it's an extremely easy attack for opponents to switch into. Clear Smog can be used to prevent bulky boosters such as Calm Mind Musharna from setting up against it, but as Magmar lacks any recovery options, they can just as easily wear it down with repeated attacks. Sunny Day is an interesting choice, as Magmar can set up the move when it switches into the likes of Amoonguss and Tangela, and using SolarBeam significantly improves its coverage against Water-type Pokemon. However, it faces competition from the likes of Rapidash and Charizard, which have higher base Speeds and can become larger offensive threats via Flash Fire and Solar Power, respectively.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Unlike its older brother, Magmar can be fairly easily countered, as it lacks the former's access to Thunderbolt and massive base 125 Special Attack stat, and it can only use three coverage attacks at once. For instance, Grumpig is an absolute full stop, taking pitiful damage from all of Magmar's attacks, and being able to remove burns from Will-O-Wisp via Heal Bell. Flash Fire Pokemon such as Flareon and Lampent are also excellent responses in general, taking nothing from its most powerful attack and being able to either dispense Wishes with impunity or strike back with STAB Shadow Ball, respectively. Frillish is another hard counter; although it can be hit for somewhat decent damage by Hidden Power Grass, it can use Recover to easily offset Magmar's damage output, and it can strike back with either Night Shade or Scald to wear Magmar down over time.</p>

    <p>Furthermore, several Pokemon become excellent checks to Magmar depending on what Hidden Power type it chooses to run. Without Hidden Power Grass, more commonplace Water-type Pokemon such as Samurott and Gorebyss can easily switch in and threaten Magmar with their respective STAB attacks and boosting options, although the former must watch out for Will-O-Wisp if it lacks a Lum Berry. If it lacks Hidden Power Rock, opposing Fire-types can switch into Magmar's STAB attacks and threaten it with their coverage moves; Charizard boasts a resistance to Focus Blast while Rapidash can outspeed and deal severe damage even with a resisted Flare Blitz, especially if it switches into a Fire-type attack. Without Hidden Power Ice, Altaria becomes a full stop to Magmar, taking almost nothing from its attacks, healing its HP with Roost or Rest, and bypassing status effects through Natural Cure. Furthermore, it can quickly become a problem as it sets up with Dragon Dance or fires off Draco Meteors for free. Likewise, without Hidden Power Electric, Swanna and Mantine can switch into Magmar fairly easily and proceed to set up.</p>

    <p>Finally, it's fairly easy to revenge kill Magmar with faster physical attackers. Cinccino and Tauros can easily OHKO Magmar with their STAB attacks if it lacks Eviolite, with the former being able to break through its Substitutes, while Swellow can switch into Will-O-Wisp with impunity and proceed to fire off powerful Facades. Priority attack users can also stop Magmar with ease; Samurott and Carracosta can cool its jets with their Aqua Jets while Absol, Skuntank, and Cacturne can use Sucker Punch to deal with Magmar. However, be aware that Magmar can, and often will, use Substitute or Will-O-Wisp to provide protection against Sucker Punch, so it's not a foolproof method by any means, compounded by the fact that none of its users can switch into Magmar's Fire Blast safely.</p>


    fantastic job erisia

    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  17. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Thanks for finishing this off Oglemi, this is done (if a little old) :p
  18. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken neca eos omnes, deus suos agnoscet
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Super Moderator Alumnus
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    danke for all your hard work :)

    uploading now!

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