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Magneton (OU Analysis) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Arcticblast, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I run with the wolves of the wicked
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    Dat magnet

    Incomplete log dump
    ********************************************
    [Overview]

    <p>Magneton's had it rough. There were better Electric-types in RBY, and it was still rather outclassed in GSC despite gaining a Steel typing. It enjoyed a brief stint in OU in ADV, but that didn't last with the advent of DPP. Once Magnezone was released, Magneton was forever doomed to the lower tiers, never again to grace even UU with enough usage to move up. But all is not lost for Magneton. Despite being almost entirely outclassed in stats by Magnezone, there is one place where Magneton comes out on top: Speed. Magneton is one of the select few Pokemon with higher Speed than their evolutions, and this is its calling card in OU today. Magneton's Speed allows it to outspeed Pokemon that Magnezone could only dream of outrunning. Magnet Pull puts it in a unique place as the fastest Steel-type trapper in the game, and with the presence of more Steel-types than ever, this gives it an edge over Magnezone. In addition, BW sent out a blessing to NFE Pokemon everywhere—Eviolite, an item that makes Magneton far bulkier than Magnezone. However, even these assets can't always distinguish it from Magnezone; one must play Magneton to its strengths to succeed with it in the harsh metagame known as OU.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Flash Cannon
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Volt Switch
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Magnet Pull
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With its base 70 Speed and a Choice Scarf equipped, Magneton reaches a surprisingly fast 393 Speed. This allows it to outspeed threats Magnezone could never outrun, including +1 neutral-natured Gyarados and Dragonite, Jolly Dugtrio, and Timid Starmie. Thunderbolt and Flash Cannon serve as Magneton's staple STAB moves, hitting a decent variety of Pokemon for neutral damage. The main coverage move is the Hidden Power of choice. Hidden Power Ice is perhaps the best option here, destroying Dragon-types and providing BoltBeam coverage. While it drops Magneton down to 391 Speed, Hidden Power Fire has its merits in allowing Magneton to trap and KO the Steel-types that Thunderbolt doesn't hit—primarily Ferrothorn, who is 2HKOed in any weather but rain. Volt Switch allows Magneton to take out a weakened opponent and escape from potential danger. It also works as a fail-safe if you're worried about your opponent's response to Magneton, allowing you to bring in a counter, although this requires some prediction on your part. Volt Switch also forms a part of the common VoltTurn combination of alternating between Volt Switch and U-turn to keep up momentum.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Magneton fits onto weather teams well. Tyranitar and Hippowdon's Sand Stream removes opposing rain that hinders Hidden Power Fire, while Politoed's Drizzle removes Magneton's weakness to Fire-type moves. If you run it on a rain team, Thunder and Hidden Power Water are worth consideration over Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Fire or Ice, although Magneton loses some coverage and gets destroyed by sun teams. Magnezone makes a surprisingly great partner to Magneton, as they can work together to wipe out all opposing Steel-types so that Dragon-types can sweep unhindered with their STAB attacks. Ironically, Magnezone is also a huge threat to this set, so using Pokemon that can beat it, such as Terrakion, Jolteon, and Gastrodon, will help you out. Because this is a Choice set and Magneton is locked into one move, it will be switching in and out a lot; a Pokemon capable of using Rapid Spin is therefore a great partner. Among these, Claydol stands out for its resistance to Fighting-type moves and immunity to Ground-type attacks, two of Magneton's weaknesses. Lastly, Hydreigon makes a good partner, luring in Steel-types and U-turning out to Magneton to trap them.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubCharge
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Charge Beam
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Flash Cannon / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Magnet Pull
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Magneton's big break this generation came in the form of Eviolite, an item that gives a 50% boost to a Pokemon's defenses if that Pokemon can still evolve. This item makes Magneton's bulk superior to Magnezone's. In fact, the added bulk allows it to survive a +1 Fire Punch from Dragonite. This extra bulk and Magneton's higher Speed stat make a Substitute + Charge Beam set viable. Substitute and Charge Beam make Magneton a more reliable Steel-type killer than the Choice Scarf set, as it can boost up and muscle past even the bulkiest of Steel-types. Magnezone's higher Special Attack is negligible after a few boosts, where both will be KOing things left and right. In fact, Magneton's Speed helps it the most here, as it allows it to outrun threats such as Gliscor, bulky Rotom-W, some Jirachi, neutral-natured Gyarados, Dragonite, Mamoswine, and Choice Specs Politoed, all Pokemon that Magnezone could only hope to outspeed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Magneton has a few choices of Hidden Power types at its disposal if you don't want to run Flash Cannon. Hidden Power Fire makes it a more capable Steel-type killer, smashing through the likes of Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Forretress. Hidden Power Ice allows Magneton to take out Dragon-types more effectively, and has the best neutral coverage with its Electric-type STAB moves. Hidden Power Grass lets Magneton take out Gastrodon, Quagsire, and Lanturn, but doesn't offer much else in the way of coverage. The Special Attack EVs can be moved to HP and Special Defense for more bulk, if you're willing to sacrifice immediate power. Leftovers could be considered over Eviolite, as Magneton will sorely miss Leftovers recovery, but removing Eviolite removes the main advantage Magneton has over a Magnezone running the same set.</p>

    <p>Because it lacks Leftovers, Magneton appreciates Wish or Leech Seed support so it can replenish its health after a few Substitutes. This set pairs well with Dragon-types and Speed Boost Sharpedo, taking out the otherwise troublesome Steel-types that pose a threat to these Pokemon. On the other hand, Heatran is perhaps this set's biggest threat—many common Heatran sets can outrun even a Timid max Speed Magneton. Calm Mind boosters such as Latias and Reuniclus can also give this set problems, as they can use the turns that Charge Beam doesn't boost or misses to get a leg up on Magneton with Special Defense boosts.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Magneton's movepool doesn't really go much farther than what's already listed, but it does have a couple of options. Magneton can run Hidden Power Grass over any of the Hidden Powers listed above to take out Gastrodon, who can otherwise tank all of Magneton's attacks. Signal Beam is an interesting option to hit Latios, Latias, and Celebi harder than Hidden Power Ice, but it gets poor coverage elsewhere and is generally an inferior option. Toxic and Thunder Wave allow Magneton to spread status—Toxic for Ground-types (watch out for Gliscor!) and Thunder Wave for general paralysis. Lastly, Metal Sound allows Magneton to punch through special walls such as Blissey and force some switches.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Sadly, Magneton has its counters. Fast or incredibly bulky Pokemon with super effective moves can easily beat it; Terrakion, Heatran, Tyranitar, and fast Gliscor stand out here. Its low Special Defense and HP mean it takes special hits as well as a paper bag. Pokemon immune to Electric-type attacks often wall Magneton, be it through typing or ability. Special mention here goes to Lanturn and Water / Ground types such as Gastrodon, who take a pittance from everything but Hidden Power Grass. Bronzong can be problematic, as it takes very little damage from Magneton's attacks and can KO with Earthquake. Dugtrio can take it out, but has to be wary of Choice Scarf Magneton, who can heavily damage or KO it with Flash Cannon or Hidden Power Ice. In a tragic case of sibling... er, evolutionary rivalry, Magnezone can trap and kill Magneton unless the latter is packing Hidden Power Fire. Virizion and Celebi can take Magneton's attacks and KO it with Close Combat / Focus Blast and Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire, respectively. Chansey and Blissey take next to nothing from its attacks and can beat it with Seismic Toss. Lastly, Latias can boost up against Magneton or just Roar it out.</p>
  2. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    Is the subcharge eviolite set completely outclassed by Magnezone? It has the speed to beat things Magnezone can't and eviolite makes it very bulky. Just a thought.
  3. pie cream

    pie cream

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    So the only reason to use this over it's big brother is it's speed? What important pokemon does it outspeed that magnezone can't handel aready?
  4. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    Scarf base 70 lets you beat things like Adamant Gyarados and dragonite. Also hp ice wouldn't be bad for that.
  5. pie cream

    pie cream

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    What are you gong to do to dragonite? It can just setup in your face and roost off any damge you have giving.
  6. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    Not 1v1, you can check it after SR, even if it has a boost. The point is that if you are using scarf zone for whatever reason, you should use scarf magneton since it can actually revenge things.
  7. pie cream

    pie cream

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    Whats stoping them from roosting? Also, since your using hp fire, your speed stat is 391 with a choice scarf.
  8. Mynism

    Mynism

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    Eviolite Magneton beat Jirachi 1v1, something Magnezone have harder times to do. It also beat Magnezone and outspeeds key mons like Gliscor, Rotom-W, Jirachi, Dnite, ...
  9. pie cream

    pie cream

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    Uhh?!?!?

    252spa timid thunderbolt vs 252hp 224sp.def= 26.98-31.93%
    hp fire does the same damage so I don't know how your beating jirachi as it can just wish up and body slam / fire punch you and agin for dnite, whats stoping it from roosting of the damage.
  10. Mynism

    Mynism

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    I said EVIOLITE and better than Magnezone against Jirachi cause it can outspeed and Sub before Body Slam paralizes. Eviolite too for the others comment. But yea, Im out of the topic
  11. PK Gaming

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    Easy pie cream, keep that neo elitism for the crappy sets. No, this one's fair game.

    I definitely want to see an evolite subcharge magneton on site though for the reasons mynism and egbert gave.
  12. Bloo

    Bloo
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    The only Magneton set I'd approve is this one:

    (Magneton) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Charge Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flash Cannon

    Taken from ShakeItUp's RMT.

    If you're interested in writing that set up instead of Scarf, go for it.

    Also, it's worth noting that you say this Magneton can outspeed +1 Dragonite. Though, you can't really do anything to it since you don't have HP Ice as an option!
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Yea, definitely mention HP Ice on Magneton's scarf set to revenge kill Dragonite and non-Scarfed Landorus. It also has no problems trapping and killing Lucario after special drop from Close Combat. It's a good check to Starmie and Tornadus as well.
  14. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    On the SubCharge set, I personally would prefer using Hidden Power Ice over Flash Cannon due to way superior coverage (and backup for Gliscor or Dragonite if you need it, instead of...you know. Dealing <~40% to them?). I would also maximize speed and subtract the 12 EVs from Special Attack simply because Jolly Breloom exists, and Magneton won't be missing those three EVs dearly.

    ...sorry we're recommending a set you didn't actually intend. I was a firm user of Magneton last generation (I "created" the SubSalac set), and I can confidently say that the Speed does make a difference. The increased bulk only aids Magneton further, so I support this.
  15. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I run with the wolves of the wicked
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    Working on applying the above changes. I'd like to keep Choice Scarf, but if there's an outpouring of dislike for it I'll take it off.
  16. Lesser Smaug

    Lesser Smaug

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    Choice Scarf Magneton with 252 Spe EVs and a Timid nature reaches 393 Speed. Remove a point thanks to Hidden Power Fire, and you now have 392 Speed, which outspeeds +1 Adamant Gyarados by one point and +1 Adamant Dragonite by four points.

    You also mention Eviolite in OO when it is listed on the SubCharge set and the item.

    How exactly does Magneton outspeed +1 Dragonite when 244 Speed Timid Magneton has 260 Speed and Dragonite has...373 to 426 (with a Jolly nature)? I think you mean Adamant +0 Dragonite; Magneton outspeeds that variant by one point, because Dragonite's maximum unboosted speed with an Adamant nature is 259.

    Edit: Oh, I didn't see the "you say".
  17. Bloo

    Bloo
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    I didn't say that, the poster of the thread did. That's why I said "you say..."

    And yeah, this basically fails against Jolly Dragonite. Really doubting this set's effectiveness as a revenge killer; guess I'll test it.
  18. Mynism

    Mynism

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    Most Dragonite run Adamant though
    Why would you write this above the Eviolite set ? Put it in the Scarf comments, or just say that Magnezone is superior in TR if you really want to say something about it.
  19. RaikouLover

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    Wait, why so much speed on this set and no HP to actually abuse Eviolite with? Unless your Magneton is dead set on countering Breloom (which it can't!) why the hell is this thing so fast??? It's not holding a Choice Scarf so Timid is flat out superflous. To be honest, this thing doesn't even need Max Special Attack either because the point of charge beam in the first place is to set up on Jirachi / Ferrothorn. Modest this thing out, set your speed at either just enough for Max Adamant Scizor or drop it all the way down to Skarmory, pump your HP to max, throw the rest into Special Attack. Of course, I still would rather use Magnezone over this thing on this set because of LEFTOVERS. You can infinitely set up on Ferro / Jirachi with Leftovers where as this fool only gets 3 subs -_-.

    You guys are fucking shitting yourself if you think Magneton will reliably outspeed Jirachi and Gliscor. Yeah, it can outspeed their common analysis sets, but there is that one asshole out there that runs something different. Gliscor could choose to run 280 speed for Luke, which isn't very stupid or uncommon and you have a dead Magneton. Jirachi can run pretty much any speed it wants to.

    I honestly don't see why you would bother with Magneton with Magnezone works so much better. Scarf can theoretically work better due to the higher speed, but Scarf has very limited utility and Magneton doesn't have Magnezones defenses to actually switch into anything
  20. Fizz

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    The additional comments for the subcharge set say to take 12 EVs from Speed and put them in Special Attack if one isn't concerned with speed tying base 70s. There are already 244 EVs in Special Attack, and an extra 12 would put it over the limit.
  21. RaikouLover

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    What base 70s are there to tie that actually boost speed? Breloom? That's hardly justification for such a large waste of EVs.
  22. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I run with the wolves of the wicked
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    With the spread I have in the OP, a +0 HP Ice does 68.1% - 80.6% to 236 Adamant Breloom, and +1 is always a OHKO. Otherwise, I mostly agree with you. However, that brings up another question - which spread should go on the analysis? Or both?

    Timid 12HP/244SpA/252Spe
    Modest 252HP/36SpA/220Spe (to outspeed Max Adamant Scizor)

    EDIT: Duly noted, shrang.
  23. shrang

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    Those EVs were used in 4th gen in the SubSalac set so you can get the Salac boost after 3 Subs. 12 HP makes Magneton's HP divisible by 4, and since you're not using pinch berries, don't make it divisible by 4, since you make less Subs.

    EDIT: Oh, and get rid of Tri Attack on the first set. If you want a coverage move over Volt Switch, use Signal Beam or something, at least that OHKOs Celebi, while Tri Attack does absolutely in most situations.
  24. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    I think we are ignoring the fact that the SubCharge set is 100% outclassed by Magnezone. Magneton looks better on paper stat wise, but lack of leftovers really limits the set. How do you beat Ferrothorn when Power Whip 2HKOs your subs and you have no leftovers recovery? Therefore you only get 3 Subs, and 3 attacks to beat it. Of course it can miss, but your still hard pressed to even beat Ferrothorn without that Leftovers recovery. And statistically speaking, its going to miss one time out of the 7 uses. You don't even come close to 3HKOing Ferrothorn with T-bolt if you just attack it either.
  25. Danilo

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    The sub charge set doesn't work. I tested it for about 20 battles in place of Magnezone, and my rating dropped like an anchor(I should probably use alts lol). Although the added bulk due to eviolite is nice, the lack of leftovers really limits the sweeping potential of Magneton, when it traps a steel. I find it incredibly difficult to even kill another poke, after i've set up as much as possible, on a steel poke. On a positive note, the Choice Scarf is relatively effective.

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