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Magneton (QC 0/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by SteelEdges, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges gotta get on home to the animal zoo
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    [Overview]
    • Has a niche with its ability Magnet Pull trapping Steel-types for Magneton to kill or set up on
    • While Magneton has the most resistances in the whole game, its weaknesses are very common attacking types (Ground, Fire, Fighting)
    • Being an NFE, it can boost its defenses with Eviolite, capitalizing on its resistance
    • A very solid Pokemon overall
    • Performs four different roles. The right one depends on your team's needs.
    • Base 70 Speed is a letdown, and some variants can't trap certain mons
    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Volt Switch
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Flash Cannon
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Magnet Pull
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • This Magneton is able to perform as a powerful wallbreaker in addition to its usual duty of trapping and slaughtering Steel-types. It reaches an SpA of 507, and hits like a bucket of bricks
    • Strongest Volt Switch in the tier
    • This set is Magneton's best chance at taking down Steelix
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • You can use an alternate Hidden Power, but it's not recommended
    • Pokemon that benefit from the removal of Steel-types are great partners, such as Druddigon, Swellow, Sceptile, Cinccino, and Escavalier. Cinccino shines as a partner in particular, as with Steelix removed it is more likely to sweep. However, Cinccino and Magneton share a Fighting-type weakness.
    [SET]
    name: Eviolite
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Volt Switch / Substitute
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Flash Cannon / Charge Beam
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Magnet Pull
    nature: Modest
    evs: 200 HP / 208 SpA / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • With the resistances it has and the bulk gifted to it by Eviolite, Magneton becomes a formidable attacker
    • Thunderbolt is obligatory STAB, hurting from Magneton's good SpA
    • Flash Cannon provides additional STAB
    • Hidden Power Fire is used to kill the Steel-types Magneton is trapping. Many of the Steel-types used in RU are doubly weak to Fire - Ferroseed, Durant, Escavalier...
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Again, the moves and partners are the same
    • Charge Beam can be used in place of Flash Cannon if you want to set up on the Steel-types; if using Charge Beam, opt for Substitute in place of Volt Switch; Life Orb is not recommended as it hampers Magneton's bulk

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Volt Switch
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Flash Cannon
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Magnet Pull
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • This Magneton focuses on revenge killing as well as trapping Steel-types. It outspeeds most of the unboosted metagame, as well as relatively slow Choice Scarf users such as Emboar
    • Of all Magneton sets, this is best equipped to kill Durant, the tier's fastest Steel-type
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • The moves are still the same, and are used here for the same reasons
    • Again, using another Hidden Power is strongly not recommended
    • Same partners - Druddigon, Swellow, etc. - apply, but note that stall teams in particular will love having Durant gone

    [Other Options]
    • In previous version of RU, a specially defensive Rest + Sleep Talk set could be used, and it's still possible due to Magneton's handy resistances, but it's no longer as useful and sleep mechanics are undesirable
    • Endure + Custap Berry
    • Dual Screens
    • Magic Coat
    • Magnet Rise
    • Metal Sound
    • Discharge
    [Checks and Counters]
    • There are no counters to Magneton, as nothing can stop Magneton from trapping a Steel-type, but there are plenty of checks
    • Emboar and Entei can pummel Magneton with their STAB Fire-type attacks
    • With Volt Absorb and a resistance to Magneton's other moves, Lanturn is a very solid response to Magneton
    • Ground-types such as Quagsire, Sandslash, and Golurk can stop Magneton in its tracks barring the rare Hidden Power Grass or Ice
    • Manectric can switch into an Electric-type move, gain a Lightningrod boost, and hurt Magneton with Overheat
    • Rotom resists Electric- and Steel-type moves and can cripple Magneton with Trick or Thunder Wave (though Trick only hampers the Eviolite set)
    • Gallade has the special bulk to withstand Magneton's attacks and retaliate with STAB Fighting-type attacks
    I'm still very new to skeleton writing, so please bear with me.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  2. col49

    col49
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    hey, this looks p.solid imo, especially for someone that "new to skeleton writing" :p anywho, if i could make a couple points...

    don't mention that it can trap steels if you're already mentioning it is the most viable magnet pull user in the tier (it's essentially fluff), but rather what this means for it (being able to isolate and ko common / resilient 'mons like esca, ferro, etc., which paves the way for a variety of dangerous sweepers). it might also help to mention some of its weak points, such as base 70 speed being p.mediocre and having to pick which steel-types it can and cannot trap under normal conditions (non-scarf variants can't trap durant unless it choice-locks into not superpower, everything barring specs needs a lot of prior damage if it wants to take out steelix, etc.). oh, and don't specifically mention how many sets it can run, in the end this doesn't really say anything the reader wants / needs to know, and it makes removing sets via scms when necessary just a little bit more difficult lol (you can definitely mention it can still run a few sets though, just to establish it's moderately flexible in use).

    perhaps it's just me, but i think that the eviolite set and sub-charge set could pretty easily be combined '-' while i realize both take somewhat different approaches in their steel-trapping, aside from details like that they're basically the same set, and differences like those can just be explained in set comments ez. If I may, I think that it would be fine to make it one set, with the slashes being tbolt / hp fire / (volt switch / substitute) / (flash cannon / charge beam), and then just explaining what each does in set comments and how the moves should be paired in ac, thoughts? oh, and I thought re-arranging slashes might be a bit better for it, since flash cannon, despite being stab, is the least useful move in terms of its primary role as a steel trapper. i'd also really like to a bulkier spread mentioned; while the fast spread is definitely nice / useful, having the extra bulk definitely has its merits as well, and allows magneton to capitalize on its nice resists a lot better imo. I'm leaning towards a spread of 200 HP / 208 SpA / 100 Spe w/Modest, which outpaces Adamant max Speed Aggron (ie.RP variants) and allows it to always avoid the 2HKO from CB Esca's Megahorn after SR damage, though if there are better spread out there then that's cool too haha. oh, and maybe it's just me, but it feels weird mentioning esca as a partner for magneton, maybe it'd possible to replace it with something like drudd? idk, might very well just be me '~'

    it might also be worth a brief mention of sleep talk on both the scarf and specs sets, since magneton switches into most sleep inducers decently, though it obviously isn't the most optimal choice. also, i'd give a nod to hnc's custap+endure magneton, i guess in oo for now, it has some pretty nice utility on top of it's standard steel-trapping uses. oh, and magnet rise is still useful-ish; it lets it deal some good damage to steelix before getting roared out without compromising it to eq, and allows it to take on 'mons like rhydon beyond this. think that's all i got atm, i'm a little tired, so i might've very well missed stuff i wanted to say '~' oh well, i'm not qc or anything, so do with that what you will haha.
  3. EonX

    EonX Rise Above
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    Liking the idea of putting SubCharge in AC of the Eviolite set. In general, I'd like an expansion on the skeletons of each set. It will give us a better idea as to what it'll look like when you write this up. Although all sets function primarily as Steel-type killers, all have secodnary uses. (Eviolite tanks hits, Specs breaks walls, Scarf revenge kills) As for individual set changes, adjustments, etc., here we go:

    [Eviolite]

    • Definitely mention that bulky spread. I would even argue to make it the primary spread since this set uses Eviolite to bolster defenses in the first place
    • HP Fighting if you really need Aggron out of the way pronto
    • Definitely mention Druddigon and Swellow as teammates. Both really love having Steels removed from play.

    [Scarf]

    • Just expand in general. Mention what it does differently than the other sets and provide examples of particular teammates that benefit from it
    • This set is the best equipped to beat Durant, the fastest Steel-type in RU
    • Flash Cannon to move 4 as it's the least useful move on the set

    [Specs]

    • Best chance Magneton has to beat Steelix
    • Probably move Flash Cannon down to move 4 as it's the least useful move
    • Strongest Volt Switch in the tier, so mention that
    • Again, just expand in general

    [Other Options]
    • I still want SpDef to be looked into thanks to those resistances to Electric-, Grass-, and Bug-type moves.
    • Mention Magnet Rise as it shits on Steelix

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Since Magneton's job is to trap and kill Steel-types, it really has no "counters" (counters stop a Pokemon from doing what it's intending to do)
    • I would probably mention something like Emboar or Entei as an example of a Fire-type that can deal with Magneton
    • Trick isn't really that crippling unless it's the Eviolite set, so I wouldn't really mention that (or at least specify that it cripples the Eviolite set only)
    • Gallade shits on Magneton and has the special bulk to take a couple of hits

    Finally, set order. I'd like other QC members to weigh in on this, but I feel it should be Specs --> Eviolite --> Scarf.
  4. SteelEdges

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    I want to thank you both sincerely for your helpful comments. I will edit this skeleton later on today. Also, Molk has suggested on IRC that I put Magnet Rise in OO and I will do so.
  5. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges gotta get on home to the animal zoo
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    Made the changes.
  6. Scene

    Scene reverie
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    Considering Analytic at all? The way PS works, Magneton can often "bluff" Magnet Pull anyway, while Analytic utterly annihilates switchins and faster Pokemon with its fantastic SpA, especially as Magneton's excellent typing forces switches with its many resistances. On top of that, it's hardly a speed demon in the first place. Possibly worth mentioning in AC, and slashing on Specs (?). I like HP Ground to smack Aggron around while dealing with most Fire and Steel-types - another AC possibility?
  7. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Analytic is just wrong as Magneton is supposed to trap Steel-types. Imo abusing the fact that it looks like it has Magnet Pull is, well, abusing an oddity in PS. It should be worth an AC mention imo, though.
  8. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Magneton is a pretty simple mon tbh lol. Anyways, here are some suggestions that i thought up taking a look at the skeleton.
    • When mentioning alternative Hidden Powers in the AC, i'd probably be more specific on which Hidden Powers are viable and what they hit that may or may not annoy Magneton otherwise. Looking at Magneton's current coverage, i'd say that the best Hidden Powers to mention outside of Fire would probably be Grass. Hidden Power Grass gives Magneton a great way to hit Ground-types such as Quagsire (walls Magneton entirely otherwise), Golurk (takes a lot from flash cannon but this is still useful) as well as Lanturn (Walls Magneton otherwise). Other Hidden Powers such as Maybe Ice and Ground could deserve a mention as well (Ice for still hitting some Ground-types as well as Druddigon, Ground for say Manectric which annoys Magneton otherwise). Be sure to mention that Hidden Power Fire is usually the better option because of its ability to hit Ferroseed and Escavalier, though, as that's incredibly important considering Magneton usually wants to trap these Pokemon.
    • The EV spread on the Eviolite set looks a bit strange, does it help Magneton avoid specific KOs/outspeed anything? If so, i'd definitely talk about what that ev spread accomplishes in the AC. I'd also give a simple Max Special Attack Max Speed Magneton with a timid nature a mention on the Eviolite set to Outpace neutral natured base 80s, most notably Kabutops, who Magneton can take most hits easily from and pose an immediate threat with Thunderbolt/Volt Switch.
    • Clefable could warrant a mention in checks and counters in my opinion. Thanks to Clefable's special bulk and Magic Guard, it can take even specs Thunderbolts from Magneton pretty easily, recover off the damage with Wish/Softboiled, and wear down Magneton in return with Seismic Toss, which hurts quite a bit given Magneton's low base hp stat.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  9. col49

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    Thought I'd verify things real quick. I suggested the spread that's currently in the OP, and as I mention in my prior post, it is meant to avoid the 2HKO from CB Escavalier's Megahorn after SR (since a fully invested, Modest HP Fire fails to OHKO even the faster 132 HP variants, let alone bulkier ones, I've found it to be pertinent enough a "defensive benchmark" to warrant dropping 44 SpA EVs), with the Speed allowing it to outpace RP Aggron (which frankly I don't really think is a super relevant benchmark, but in most situations there has been no reason not to). I had meant to relay that the Timid max / max spread was definitely worth keeping (as it was what was there initially), either as the main spread or as strong AC mention, but I guess I didn't really word it very well :x

    Also, been meaning to address this, but I honestly think Analytic is worth considering somewhere. I won't make any of those "PS mechanics allow you to bluff Magnet Pull, most people will assume it anyway", though it is a nice little added benefit, but in all honesty Analytic Magneton isn't even bad as a stand-alone 'mon. Having a plethora of solid resists and Electric STAB, Magneton is perfectly useful even without opposing Steel-types in play, and the ability to push extra damage on 'mons, whether they're switching in or simply getting hit in retaliation, is a pertinent and significant bonus. Realistically, it would fit best in OO, since incorporating Analytic into AC or main slashes would mean conflicting with the idea that Magneton is most significant for its role as a Steel trapper (which would be super confusing for both writer and reader imo), but it should definitely get a strong acknowledgement there, since it's by no means bad. Just my opinion tho '-'

    edit: the Analytic point is in response to Scene's post, as I feel it got overlooked with little to no actual discussion, despite being a fairly valid point imo. Just verifying that I did, in fact, read the other posts in the thread, and not trying to "steal" his suggestion x_x
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
  10. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Moving to L&O because it was dropped.

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