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Magnezone [BW2 Revamp] [QC: 0/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Sciztar, Dec 23, 2012.

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  1. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    Code:
    Unfinished business to do:
    [LIST]
    [*]Finish the skeleton [ ]
    [*]Get those QC approvals [ ]
    [*]Write a better introduction to Magnezone [ ]
    [/LIST]
    
    [LIST]
    [*]Get those GP checks [ ]
    [*]Have my first upload  [ ]
    [/LIST]
    
    Code:
    Status: Filling in the skeleton
    
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    [Introduction]
    • The Best and only Steel Trapper in OU
    • Incredible Base 130 Special Attack and Base 110 Defense
    • Great Dragon resistance
    • Volt-Switch is great for getting momentum on your side of the field
    • Thunder still as deadly as ever with the numerous rain teams in the OU
    • Holds the most resistances of any Pokemon and has respectable bulk
    • Did not gain any important moves from move tutor
    • Below average Base 60 Speeds leaves Magnezone to be out sped by majority of the OU tier.
    • Biggest threat to Magnezone, faster sweepers, special walls, and Earthquake.


    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Thunderbolt / Thunder
    move 2: Volt Switch
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Flash Cannon
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Modest / Timid
    ability: Magnet Pull / Analytic
    evs: 170 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]



    • This is the most powerful set for Magnezone. Great for getting rid of slower steels with no problem
    • Thunderbolt is your best and most powerful STAB
    • Flash Cannon guarantees a OHKO to Kyruem-B without entry hazards.
    • Thunderbolt gets rid almost all bulky water types except Special defensive Rotom-W and Gastrodon.
    • Volt-Switch is such an amazing move for Magnezone. Having momentum which Substitute doesn't provide is nice as well.
    • 88 Speed EVs is what you need to out speed minimum speed Skarmory and to get the jump on mimunum speed Poltioed and KO it with Thunderbolt.


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • You can option for a Life Orb if you don't like to be locked into one move, but the power drop and recoil damage will add up.
    • With the given EVs, you outspeed all Choice Band and Bulky Swords Dance Scizor. But 252 Speed Scizor out speeds Magnezone and can OHKO Magnezone with Superpower.
    • The HP EVs guarantees that Special Attack Politoed has a 6.25% chance to OHKO Magnezone in the rain.Which you can retaliate with Volt Switch or Thunderbolt
    • Blissey and other special walls will completely wall Magnezone even with a Choice Specs. Conkeldurr serves a great partner for Magnezone to remove special walls.



    [SET]
    name: Substitute + 3 Attacks
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Flash Cannon
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    ability: Magnet Pull
    evs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Magnezone's Bread and butter set. Sub on an opposing steel and rack up Charge Beam boost
    • Out speeds ever version of Scizor expect the rare Jolly Nature Scizor.
    • Magnezone should not be used to try an Jirachi or Lucario as both can easily dispose of Magnezone with ease.


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    • Tyranitar can also switch in with relative ease with this set.
    • EVs allow for the perfect number for Substitute for Magnezone
    • Leftovers is needed for HP recovery behind the substitute
    • Gastrodon completely walls Magnezone and can proceed to use Earthquake or Earth Power.
    • Hidden Power can be used if Landorus and Landorus-T or Dragons are a problem for your team.
    • You can option for Signal Beam to hit Celebi and other Psychic types hard. With Signal Beam you can 2HKO a Special defensive Celebi who normally walls you.
    • Starmie is an amazing partner offensively and good for spinning away entry hazards for a Magnezone



    [SET]
    name: Dual Screen
    move 1: Hidden Power Fire
    move 2: Volt Switch
    move 3: Reflect
    move 4: Light Screen
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Careful
    ability: Magnet Pull
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]



    • The EVs allow you to have survive a non-specs Politoed's Hydro Pump in the rain.
    • The EVs allow you to survive a Modest Keldeo's Hydro Pump and lets you retaliate back with a Volt Switch and take Keldeo health down to around 63.77 - 76.16%.
    • With 252 in Special Defense Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T's Focus Blast can't OHKO Magnezone at full health before a Light Screen.



    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]





    [Other Options]


    • You can option for a Choice Scarf Magnezone. With the Choice Scarf Magnezone hits 360 which is able to outrun Base 110 Pokemon without a Scarf. Magneton is by far a better choice. Magneton can revenge kill a +1 Dragonite, speed tie with Scarf Toed, and outspeed Tornadus-T.



    [Checks and Counters]



    • Magnezone is vulnerable to revenge-killing because of its below average speed;
    • Blissey, Chansey, and Gastrodon are perfect counters to Magnezone.
    • Celebi also can stop Magnezone as it resist Magnezone STAB an proceed to use Earth Power
    • Despite Magnezone's bulk STAB ground moves will always OHKO Magnezone, a Pokemon with levitate would be great for Magnezone.
  2. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    • To be honest, I really think Choice Specs should be first on the set order. Volt Switch is such an amazing move as we all know, and having a huge Special Attack and the ability to do some cool things like OHKO'ing Ferrothorn (2HKO'ing in Rain) is definitely a major advantage. Having momentum which Substitute doesn't provide is nice as well. A common switch in is Landorus which is boned by a timely Flash Cannon, and overall I feel like it is the most effective set in the current metagame. Substitute does have some advantages, but let's say you trap a Ferrothorn: the next common switch-in is Landorus. Charge Beam is ass so I am assuming 3 Attacks which you lack HP Ice. You can't really do much, so your plans are futile. Tyranitar can also switch in with relative ease as well. The best way to trap shit is with VoltTurn anyways.
    • Speaking of Charge Beam, it's terrible. It takes too much time to set-up and Ferrothorn just sets hazards in your face while you get one additional kill from just one Pokemon. You don't beat anything better from experience and Skarmory and Forretress can just Whirlwind or Volt Switch respectively. A lot of Specially Defensive Jirachi are starting to carry U-turn as well. Also, MAMOSWINE.

    • Slash Analytic on Choice Specs, I'm pretty sure it was QC approved anyways.
    • Get rid of Choice Scarf imo. Okay, I'm going to get some heat for this, but in all honesty what does Magnezone have over Magneton sans bulk? Magneton can revenge kill a +1 Dragonite, speed tie with Scarf Toed, and outspeed Tornadus-T. You aren't going to want your considerably slower Scarfer to take much damage anyways since its a scarfer.. soo yah.
  3. tml

    tml

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    I agree with Bri that Choice Scarf Magnezone is just absolutely awful. Magneton is the superior option for a Choice Scarfer. Even Starmie and other Base 115s outspeed Choice Scarf Zone and there is nothing that make it stand out as a better scarfer. For these reasons I suggest you remove the mention of Choice Scarf Magnezone altogether.
  4. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    Yeah i agree with both Bri and You. Because Base 60 speed just isn't fast enough. Plus Magnezone becomes incredibly weaker compared to his Choice Specs set, so I'll drop the Choice Scarf and just mention it in the Other options
  5. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Okay, I have a few suggestions. For starters, I agree with the set order for Maggy. Choice Specs will be the most useful on most teams.


    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Thunderbolt (Thunder, AC)
    move 2: Volt-Switch
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Flash Cannon
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Modest / Timid
    ability: Magnet Pull / Analytic
    evs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

    Two suggestions. Do not ever slash Thunder. It deserves an AC mention and nothing more. Whether you use Mag on a rain team or not is your discretion, but selecting Thunder will weaken your own Magnezone should you face another weather. Using Thunderbolt does not detract from Magnezone's effectiveness at any time where as Thunder will. AC mention, and list the negatives.

    EV spread needs to be what I bolded. 108 Speed is creeping. 84 Speed is what you need to outspeed Skarm and players can use more at their discretion. Skarm is the benchmark for Magnezone because bulky slower Scizor are slower than Skarm anyway, where as faster Scizor could potentially be faster than Magnezone depending on the user. For consistency just use the Skarm benchmark.


    [SET]
    name: Substitute + 3 Attacks
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Flash Cannon (Signal Beam, AC)
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    ability: Magnet Pull
    evs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

    Substitute + 3 Attacks and Substitute + Charge Beam need to be two separate sets. They play entirely differently. SubCharge aims to set Magnezone up for a 2 for 1 kill on the other team by trapping Jirachi, CB Bullet Punch locked Scizor, and Ferrothorn. Substitute + 3 attack is merely retain your Substitute and kill quickly. They need different EV spreads to accomplish this and different team support options (namely Starmie is an amazing partner offensively and spinning wise for a SubCharge Magnezone). Signal Beam is AC at best.

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Charge Beam
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Charge Beam
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Flash Cannon (Hidden Power Grass, AC)
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    ability: Magnet Pull
    evs: Under Construction for now.

    I've used this version of SubCharge quite extensively. Anytime the opponent has a Jirachi, CB Scizor, or Ferrothorn it is a free 2 kills. It also functions pretty well as a stand alone because Mag is still a bulky Steel. The Spread I currently use is 224 HP / 184 Def / 16 SpA / 84 Spe, Modest. I can't remember off the top of my head what its substitutes survive specifically so I will research that and report back. It was a BW1 spread I think it was Jirachi Body Slam 3HKO instead of 2HKO or something like that.


    [SET]
    name: SubSalac (Magneton?)
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Charge Beam
    move 3: Thunderbolt / Flash Cannon
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice (Hidden Power Grass, AC)
    item: Salac Berry
    ability: Magnet Pull
    evs: 28 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

    This is not a joke. Try it out. Sub / Charge down until approaching your last Substitue, kill the steel hopefully getting +1 or +2, then sweep when your Salac Berry activates.



    [SET]
    name: Dual Screen
    move 1: Hidden Power Fire
    move 2: Volt-Switch
    move 3: Reflect
    move 4: Light Screen
    item: Light Clay
    nature: Careful
    ability: Magnet Pull
    evs: 252 HP / 90 Def / 160 SpD
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

    What the hell is this EV spread for?
  6. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    Okay a couple things:

    - Keep Thunder slashed. I might even make it the first slash. The main selling point of Choice Specs Magnezone imo is that powerful Thunder. But at the same time you have HP Fire for Ferrothorn. Anyway, seconding Analytic slash. The main point is for super powerful Thunder though, so mention that in AC.

    - @RaikouLover: It's not speed creeping.

    - It's Volt Switch, not Volt-Switch.

    That's all I've got for now, cheers!
  7. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    You are joking right? If a player wants to use Thunder instead of Thunderbolt, that should be their discretion. However, in an analysis we shouldn't be recommending an option for conditions that are not always favorable. I don't see Solarbeam mentioned on every Chlorophyll user despite it's superior power over Giga Drain / Grass Knot / Energy Ball. Furthermore, Thunder as the first or even second slash implies Magnezone is to be used on Rain teams, which is just so wrong. Mag doesn't care what weather you use it on and Rain just makes him take more to kill Ferrothorn.

    108 Speed EVs is 182 Speed. Nothing sits at 181 so how is that NOT speed creep? Bulky SD Scizor and CB Scizor run no EVs and are slower than the 84 Speed required to beat Skarmory. That is the very definition of Speed creep.
  8. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    The only way I would recommend a Thunder slash is if Magnezone is a rain staple. Well, it isn't; it's mainly used on Dragonzone teams that usually don't use any weather.

    So yea, AC mention. Nothing more, nothing less.
  9. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    Actually 108 speed evs is neceassry to outspeed 24 Speed Ev Skarmory. With 84 in speed EVs you have 177 for Magnezone. Skarmory has a Base 70 speed so its naturally faster than Magnezone. With 24 Speed EVs it hits at 182, so 108 in Speed EVs in the Choice Specs is necessary.

    Now on the Dual Screens, the EVS allow you to survive a Modest Keldeo's Hydro Pump and lets you retaliate back with a Volt Switch and take keldeo down to (63.77 - 76.16%). But most people use a timid nature.

    Hydro Pump from a Choice Specs Politoed in the rain has a 50% chance of OHKO Dual Screens Magnezone.

    But I'm thinking about just moving all of his EVs into Special defense to sponge Tornadus-T's Focus Blast and Hidden Power Ground. Because with 252 in Special Defense Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T's Focus Blast can't OHKO Magnezone at full health before a Light Screen.

    I'll try out that SubSalac set and see how it goes. But you never mention what nature? I assume a Timid Nature.
  10. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    You see, that's called speed creep. If you tell people to outspeed a specific Skarmory's EV spread, then people will just add speed EVs to Skarmory to outspeed Magnezone. Then people will add EVs to Magnezone to outspeed the faster Skarmory's EVs and it just goes on and on in a never-ending cycle.

    There's no point in beginning that cycle. Outspeeding min speed Skarmory is a good baseline, and people can decide how much to creep for themselves.
  11. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    So all I need to say is outspeeding min speed Skarmory. Or do I go with @RaikouLover suggestion to drop the speed evs to 84?
  12. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    84 EVs is exactly enough to outspeed min speed Skarmory, so yes.
  13. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    I actually don't feel that Dual Screens on Magnezone is effective anymore in BW2. Because who can Magnezone come in safely on? It can't come in on Ferrothorn, Forretress, or Skarmory because they will continue to set up entry hazards while you put up screens. I just don't see where you have the time to set up the screens. Maybe this might be helpful on Hyper Offense teams but you have Deoxys-D and Espeon for those roles. So I don't think that Dual Screens on Magnezone is effective anymore.
  14. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Slash Thunder second on the Choice Specs set. RL brings up a good point that it is entirely up to a players discretion as to whether to use Thunder or Thunderbolt, but Thunder is scary powerful on Choice Specs, and its excellent on rain teams as well. Its not quite AC material, but its not first slash material either, since Thunderbolt is more reliable, and works on all team types. Hence, the 2nd slash.
  15. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I'm locking this

    Magnezone is a fairly straightforward Pokemon that's barely changed in the BW2 metagame. The original analysis was well written in addition to being written in a way that makes it easy to update.

    Sorry for not getting to this sooner, and thank you for taking to initiative to revamping Magnezone. This has nothing to do with you or your writing and I will personally see to updating Magnezone via SCMS.
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