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Magnezone [BW2 Revamp] [QC: 2/3] - Written

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Glacier, Apr 5, 2013.

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  1. Glacier

    Glacier

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Messages:
    32
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]"My name is Magnezone! I shock you and kill you and burn you to crisp if my hardrive doesn't let me use Hidden Power [Fire]! Beep, beep!"



    • QC: 2/3 [BKC | Lavos Spawn]
    • GP: 0/3 [None]
    • Finished? [No]



    [Overview]

    <p>Although the BW2 move tutors brought new moves to Magnezone's arsenal, it still brought a lot of threats to it as well. For instance, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Landorus-T, Thundurus-T, and many pokemon getting Superpower means Magnezone will have to switch out more often. The common fire-, ground-, and fighting-type weaknesses is still problematic in this metagame. Combine that with a poor 60 base Speed stat and that makes seem like a mediocre pokemon. Magnezone also has trouble breaking past Blissey and Chansey which every special attacker suffers. Magneton, Magnezone's previous evolution has a higher speed as well.</p>

    <p>However, do not make these bad traits fool you not to use Magnezone. When looking at it's abilities, one will be impressed. It gains Magnet Pull, an ability that trap and eliminate steel-types, allowing pokemon such as Dragonite, Salamence, Kyurem-B, and Haxorus spam their lethal Outrages and help other pokemon like Swords Dance Scizor clean teams with Bullet Punch. With Dream World giving it Analytic, it can make it's Choice Specs set so strong that even Choice Specs Palkia, who is Ubers, even jealous. Magnezone is also the heart of DragMag teams and despite its common weaknesses, Magnezone's steel-typing has some nifty resistances that let it take Outrages with its 115 base Defense stat and can go toe to toe against BoltBeam coverage. Magnezone even has access to BoltBeam itself when using Hidden Power [Ice]. Despite the huge amount of new threats that destroy it, Magnezone still keeps its niche as a powerful, bulky, steel killing, special attacker, the main reason it has stayed in OU this generation as well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Non-Choice
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Charge Beam / Flash Cannon
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Magnet Pull
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While the other sets are based on plowing holes or cleaning weakened teams, this set takes a different approach, setting up Substitute and taking out two pokemon almost always guaranteed. By using Substitute on the various steel-types and setting up with Charge Beam until the steel-type loses, you can are most likely to get hold of a +3 Boost to your Special Attack taking out one foe and the other almost always being KOed as they break the substitute. Even after the steel-types have been removed, you can still make this set work well because its powerful without Special attack boosts. Unlike the other sets, this set isn't prone to be set-up on from the likes of Landorus-T and Garchomp. The EVs are fairly simple. 252 Speed with Timid Nature makes you outrun neutral base 70s such as Politoed.</p>

    <p>This set's moveset is standard. Substitute is a good move to let you evade status, a move that could KO Magnezone, and make sure you take no damage that is below 25%. Flash Cannon can be used over Charge Beam if extra coverage is more important. Flash Cannon also helps due to the extra power as well. Flash Cannon hits an extra group of pokemon, namely Mamoswine, Kyurem, Terrakion, and Tyranitar. All of these pokemon can actually take a boosted Thunderbolt, considering Terrakion is used in sand. Hidden Power Ice provides extra coverage and Hidden Power Fire should be used with Flash Cannon because it is outclassed by Hidden power Ice when paired with Charge Beam. Thunderbolt is the reliable STAB move when set-up. Just like most users of Substitute, Leftovers is the choice to gain HP lost by Substitute.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Thunder should always be used on a rain team due to the extra power. An optional spread by taking away 36 Spe EVs and investing them into HP can be viable still outspeeding Adamant Scizor, but out speeding Politoed and Breloom is important. If you prefer a more bulky set, an EV spread of 152 HP / 180 SpA / 176 Spe can be used to outpace Taunt Skarmory. An Air Balloon can be used to evade ground-types from choice-locked users such as Landorus.</p>

    <p>Reuniclus is a good partner here because it lets Magnezone "outpace" certain threats. A Quiet nature is preffered with the Trick room set but when paired with the Calm Mind variant, Magnezone and Reuniclus can eliminate and set-up on each others counters such as Gastrodon and Blissey, respectively. Blissey commonly comes in due to the threat of Explosion being gone. To make use of Magnezone's godsend ability, pokemon that can make use of the annihilation of steel-types are good teammates. Examples are Bulky Swords Dance Scizor, Choice Scarf Salamence and Garchomp, Choice Band Kyurem-B, Choice Specs Latios, Jellicent, and Gyarados. Gyarados even has excellent synergy with Magnezone.</p>

    <p>Volt Switch can be used over Substitute if you prefer of using an all-out attacker set, but this can be easier done by using an Expert Belt. Since, Magnezone faces problem with ground-type moves, Levitate user is also a good teammate. For instance, Hydreigon can switch in easily and break through walls Magnezone fails to do so. Basically, if Magnezone traps the steel-type, the only way to live is Shed Shell or phaze it away, so a good teammate is Physically Defensive Hippowdon. It can easily shrug off moves aimed at Magnezone after the steel-type has been elimanated. It can even use Ice Fang to combat the ground-types that threaten Magnezone or use Earthquake to cause solid damage. However, Hippowdon cannot take pokemon down fighting-types with Ice Punch since most 2-3HKO and Breloom as well who can threaten with Seed Bomb or Technician Bullet Seed.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Volt Switch
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Flash Cannon
    move 4: Thunderbolt
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Magnet Pull / Analytic
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Magnezone's most powerful set and the closest thing out there to Special Choice Band Scizor. This set's niche is not neither to clean or gain Special Attack boosts, but to break huge holes in the opponent's defenses. By slapping a pair of Choice Specs on, Magnezone reaches a jaw-breaking 591 Special Attack which can easily fry teams to crisp. Volt Switch is the crux of the set. It deals huge amounts of damage while gaining momentum. With Volt Switch and the appropriate coverage move, it can punish it's counters or checks if predicted correctly. Flash Cannon is you reliable secondary STAB, but has poor coverage, but the move has no immunities which makes that a huge plus over Volt Switch. Finally, Thunderbolt is your reliable and even more powerful move that makes sure you do not switch out after use.</p>

    <p>Since Magnezone has above average defenses sitting at 70/115/95, Modest really doesn't bring anything special other than a more Special Attack. Timid brings an important flight of extra speed so you can neutral outspeed Politoed, Metagross, Skarmory, and Breloom. Bar Metagross, all of them are common. If you are not scared of Scizor to U-turn out before you KO, you can still run a Modest nature. The EVs are meant for max power and allow it to interestingly outspeed neutral base 70s by 1 point as said previously. Choice Specs Politoed is the most important one of these to take out for sun teams to win the weather wars or in general.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Thunder should always be used on rain teams for the important paralysis chance and to get it many notable 2HKOes. Note, however, that the paralysis chance can be counter-productive when paired up with the ability, Analytic. Speaking of Analytic, it may seem like a useless choice because it's main niche, trapping steels, is now gone; however, Analytic gives Magnezone so much firepower when slower, Choice Specs Analytic-boosted Thunder can actually 2HKO 4/252+ Chansey with only a little prior damage! This is a common reality considering Chansey doesn't carry Leftovers. It can even OHKO Specially Defensive Heatran after Stealth Rock. If using this ability, remember to use an EVs 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef with Quiet or Modest Nature. Modest Nature should be primarily be used as being out sped by Hippowdon and getting KOed by Earthquake is really bad. Since Magnezone forces a lot of switches, the next pokemon will take severe damage because Analytic gets a boost as well if the opponent switches.</p>

    <p>Just like other Magnezone sets, other Hidden Power types are viable for certain threats. Hidden Power Water should be used on rain teams to destroy Heatran and Volcarona that can switch on a non-analytic set due to their high Special Defense stats. Hidden Power Ground completely destroys Heatran, and more importantly, electric-types, which resist Magnezone's STAB. Hidden Power Dragon can be used if neutral coverage is more important than hitting dragon-types harder. Though, you will miss out on grass-, flying-, and ground-types. Sleep Talk can be used to counter Sleep Powder Roserade, Spore Breloom and Amoonguss, and Hypnosis Politoed, so you are not a sleeping duck when you are inflicted by this status, but you will rarely use this move. Because Magneton gain Tri Attack, Magnezone can use this move for excellent neutral coverage, but this should only be used with Analytic as it is weak due it lacking STAB.</p>

    <p>Politoed is an excellent teammate for Magnezone. First of all, Politoed gives Magnezone the ability to use a powerful Thunder. Second of all, Politoed can easily switch in to Magnezone. For example, Politoed's weaknesses are grass and electric which are resisted by Magnezone. Magnezone can even Volt Switch back so Politoed can either spread status, change the weather, or just destroy most of Magnezone's counters. Ninetales may seem like an odd teammate but it actually helps Magnezone boost the power of Hidden Power Fire and also Magnezone is an electric-type and can destroy rain teams that mostly are packed with water- and flying-types to help the weather wars. Salamence, Dragonite, Haxorus, Kyurem, Latias, Latios, and Kyurem-B are all pokemon that can abuse and kill of steels that interfere these pokemon to spam Outrages and Draco Meteors. Magnezone is the heart of DragMag teams as mentioned before, and dragon-types should almost always be paired with Magnezone. In fact, all of these pokemon listed work well in rain too. Dragonite gets Waterfall. Salamence gets Hydro Pump. Latios gets Surf. Kyurem and Kyurem-B help have great synergy and Haxorus can use Aqua Tail. Gyarados, Mamoswine, Weavile, Gliscor, and Landorus-I and -T have great synergy with Magnezone as well. Since this set is weak to Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, Heatran, Hydreigon, Hippowdon, etc., by a margin due to Magnezone's low speed, a Choice Scarf user that can take down these pokemon is greatly appreciated such as Rotom-W and Scizor, the latter being able to form a strong and bulky VoltTurn core.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Volt Switch
    move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Flash Cannon
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Magnet Pull
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>When first visiting the Choice Scarf set, this set seems to be completely outclassed by Magneton who has higher speed, preventing it from being outsped by Starmie (By 1 point) and also Dugtrio, Alakazam, and Jolteon. However this set has some traits that separate it from Magnezone. Since Magneton cannot use an Eviolite at the same time, Magneton has the amount of bulk as cardboard. Magneton also misses out from a bunch of OHKOes due to it's only 120 base Special Attack stat, lower than Magnezone. If bulk and power is more important, Magnezone is definitely the superior option.</p>

    <p>Like most Choice Scarf users that get Volt Switch or U-turn, Volt Switch is still the crux of the set by gaining momentum. With a Choice Scarf it can get rid of more steel-types before they get another layer of spikes such as Skarmory, Metagross, and Jirachi. Hidden Power Ground is even more useful on this set because it can outspeed Heatran and KO it. It even helps more of getting more damage on pokemon such as Ninetales and opposing Magnezone. However, Hidden Power Fire and Ice are superior due to the extra coverage the provide. Thunderbolt is your more powerful STAB that makes sure you do not switch and helps in late-game sweeping. Flash Cannon is your secondary STAB that hurts Tyranitar, Mamoswine, Kyurem-B, and mainly because it is safe when there are immunities to Thunderbolt on the opposing field. Max Special Attack and Speed are chosen to outspeed the Lati twins, Terrakion, and other pokemon sitting over the base 61 Speed bench.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is geared more towards revenge killing so a Timid Nature is mandatory. Using a Modest Nature would involve being outsped by a a lot of pokemon Timid can outspeed. On a rain team, Thunder is even more important due to the power loss. Other Hidden Power types like Hidden Power Flying are usable like as said in the past two sets and the Other Options. However, on this set, Hidden Power Ice should almost be used. Magnezone now outspeeds Gliscor, Garchomp, Haxorus, Hydreigon, Dragonite, Celebi, Latios, Latias, and most of these are weak to it making it the main option. Hidden Power Fire is a pretty bad move to be locked in due to the abundance of rain but helps it take down Ferrothorn and other steel-types easier which is greatly appreciated.</p>

    <p>Dragon-types with Choice Bands and Choice Specs are now even more viable now due to the jump in Magnezone's speed. Choice Band Kyurem-B and Choice Band Garchomp are examples on the physical side. On the special side, Choice Specs Latios and Choice Specs Kyurem are other examples. Reuniclus is a interesting teammate because it's counters are removed by Magnezone, especially the Calm Mind set. The Trick Room set is a huge con with Magnezone's speed, however. Explosion may have lost a lot of it's potential because it doesn't halve your opponents defenses, but still packs a lot of power and destroys Blissey because it hits her weak physical Defense. Choice Band Scizor, Breloom, and Dragonite are partners that help defeat finish off the pokemon taking the Volt Switch using their strong priority moves. Scizor can even run a VoltTurn core with Magnezone and defeat each others counters such as Jellicent. The two are both steel-types so they both have numerous resistances to switch in to. This is best paired in rain due to their similiar fire-type weaknesses.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As said before, Thunder should always be used on rain teams. The extra power gets Magnezone a lot of notable OHKOes. The Dual Screens set that was effective in BW1 has been removed because it loses a lot offensive presence, is outclassed by Latios, loses valuable moveslots, and in general, Magnezone has better thing to do with it's time. The BW2 move tutors have given it some new tricks to combat its counters. Electroweb can slow down its counter while lowering there speed, Terrakion is an example, and then KO them with the appropriate move. The move, however, wastes a valuable move slot for Magnezone and cannot slow down ground-types which are the main things Magnezone wants to bypass. Signal Beam is a good move because it destroys Celebi and Alakazam, also hitting Reuniclus, Latias, Latios, and Jolteon for good damage. This move has more potential with Analytic to deal more damage on the bulkier pokemon mentioned. Magnet Rise is an option to avoid ground-type moves but Magnezone would rather use Air Balloon. RestTalk works surprisingly well on paper, because of Magnezone's good bulk, but remember about Magnezone's common weaknesses and the new mechanics make this strategy harder to use than expected. Finally, you have Gravity for gravity-based teams which boosts the accuracy of Zap Cannon to a respectable accuracy, however Gravity is generally considered a gimmick and other users outclass it.</p>

    <p>Magnezone gains Discharge which is useful on non-rain teams, but the power loss is noticeable. Other Hidden Powers let it take down it's counters suddenly and unexpectedly. Heatran is mowed down by Hidden Power Ground. Hidden Power Psychic or Flying can be used to defeat fighting-types like Conkeldurr, Keldeo, Breloom, Infernape, and Terrakion, but remember that you will have to give up other useful coverage for this. Hidden Power Water is a good move on rain teams because it gains pseudo-STAB and has good coverage with Thunder. A support set is possible and can set-up entry hazards with Magic Coat. Espeon and Xatu do this better and the only thing that you benefit is the extra resistances and to awe the opponent that his/her move backfired. After that, they will see Magic Coat coming. This move can be spammed on steel-types. Toxic and Thunder Wave also support the team too. Sunny Day or Rain Dance help aid in the weather wars. These are in other options for a reason because the moves in the sets provided or the additional comments are better.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Unfortunately, BW2 brought a lot of new threats that can wipe Magnezone off the map, so checking it is fairly easy. Garchomp can OHKO it with Earthquake. Landorus-T does the same thing, and same with the Incaranate form. Basically any decently powered ground-type move will easily KO it. Even Sunkern's Earth Power makes Magnezone yell merci. Fighting-type moves do a huge amount of damage too. A Close Combat from the like of Terrakion, or Lucario easily destroy it. Finally there is Ninetales who bring out sun which makes Magnezone's fire-type weakness greater and this team can easily turn it into crisp due to almost every pokemon having a fire-type move available on it. Even with Magnezone Base 115 Defense, some damaging moves are too much for it like Gyarados's Waterfall and Choice Band Kyurem-B's Outrage. Some pokemon that Magnezone traps can easily deal with Magnezone too. Forretress has Volt Switch and can even Earthquake it. Skarmory carry Shed Shell sometimes and can Whirlwind it away. Ferrothorn, while it cannot do anything, it can set-up hazards until Stealth Rock + 3 Layers of Spikes. Finally, Scizor can just U-turn out. Terrakion and anything with 61 base Speed that is viable to run a Choice Scarf is a good counter so there is not threat of being outpaced by Choice Scarf Magnezone. Dugtrio is currently the best check due to it living with a Focus Sash, come into thunderbolt with immunity, trap and OHKO with Earthquake. Alakazam can do the same thing using a Focus Sash but Magnezone can switch and will not be trapped. Gothitelle can hit it hard with Hidden Power Fire if rain is not present, but it can escape by using Volt Switch.</p>

    <p>Countering, however, is a different story. Due to the immense power of Magnezone when running the ability named Analytic, countering is near to impossible having the power of even more than Choice Specs of Latios. Even Blissey and Chansey are 2HKOed with some prior damage, making checking it the better option. If Magnezone runs Magnet Pull, it is much easier to check, but then there is a threat of your steel-types being trapped. The only group of pokemon that resist it's STAB are electric-types. Considering that most of them are frail will not be doing it any favors. Thundurus-T is hurt by Hidden Power Ice and Jolteon is 2HKOed by Hidden Power. Heatran can switch into non-Analytic sets, but has to be careful of Hidden Power Ground. Bulky Grass-types are hit hard by Hidden power Fire and pokemon such as Gliscor are mowed down by Hidden power Ice. Wobbefut can trap and Mirror Coat Magnezone, and if it uses Volt Switch, it can punish the next pokemon coming in if it is not a dark-type.</p>
  2. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    509
    Foremost, you need to add a link to Magnezone's current OU analysis, you can hyperlink "Magnezone BW2 Revamp" to save a bit of space in the OP.

    [Overview]

    Meloetta isn't a relevant OU threat, so I wouldn't mention it here. Replace it with Kyurem-B because it can effortlessly set up on non-Flash Cannon Magnezone. Oh, and give Lando-I a mention here due to its high increase in usage.
    Analytic Magnezone is usable as well, so it deserves a mention after this IMO.
    Mention the other niches that come with Steel typing (e.g, immunity to Toxic)
    Kinda redundant when you've already mentioned its niche (imo, elaborate on this in the AC of the sets. Also, Dragonmons aren't the only Pokemon that benefit from the removal of Steel-types. Be sure to give Pokemon such as Mamoswine and Lando-T a strong mention as partners, since they're just as dangerous as a Dragon-type locked into Outrage once some of their biggest checks and counters have been removed from play.

    [SET]
    name: Substitute Attacker
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Flash Cannon
    move 4: Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
    item: Leftovers / Air Balloon
    ability: Magnet Pull
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Magnezone is also safe from being revenged; Substitute eases prediction in general.
    Which is where Charge Beam would come in handy.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    Mention Volt Switch > Substitute here imo, because Magnezone works pretty well as a bulky attacker. That said, also mention a bulkier spread with a Modest nature; I tend to go with something super-dumb, like Bold + precise EV investment, but Modest 252 HP / etc could work. Also, you have Air Balloon slashed, but didn't mention it at all. Personally, I dislike Air Ballon + Sub Magnezone; it was cool when Doryuuzu was OU, but nowadays, Leftovers and even Magnet Rise are vastly superior.
    Cutting off Magnezone's Speed here is meaningless. You're better off going with 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe since it outspeeds Adamant Breloom by one point; the leftover 36 HP EVs don't do anything notable enough to forgo avoiding a potential Spore.
    Even though this is only a skeleton, you need to explain why. People have been using SubCharge Magnezone since early BW, so this skeleton will leave many confused. Also, no one -- QC in particular -- will know if your choice of removing Charge Beam is both just and well supported by experience and / or hard facts.
    I wouldn't use "best offense teammates" when describing how well Dragon-types synergize with Magnezone. As I'd already mentioned, there are many other Pokemon that benefit from the removal of Steel-types (or scaring Pokemon such as Politoed and Gyarados away), so you're probably better off rewording that to something along the lines of "Dragon-types immediately come to mind as great teammates, as Steel typing is one of their biggest blockades" (awkward, I know, but saying that Dragons are the 'best' offensive teammates is an overstatement).
    Redundant. This is where you should mention non-dragons that have great synergy with Magenzone. Mamoswine, Lando-T, Weavile, and SubToxic Gliscor are examples of such Pokemon.
    This is rather confusing. Are you talking about creating a Volt Switch(Turn) core or that the player using Magnezone should pack something capable of revenging Pokemon capable of setting up on Magnezone? Regardless, Scarftom-W isn't the best example, so be sure to beef up this area a bit.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Volt Switch
    move 2: Hidden Power [Fire]
    move 3: Flash Cannon
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Thunder
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Modest
    evs: 148 HP / 252 SpA / 108 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    IMO, slash Thunder, as SpecsZone can be used on and against rain teams to great effect.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    Where's Analytic? There was a pretty solid discussion about Analytic Magnezone being a set and eventually, it was decided that both Analytic and Magnet Pull would be mentioned on Choice Specs, as the power the former beings can be a ton more beneficial than trapping a Steel-type that can't harm it, anyway.
    Ok, what am I missing here? I... genuinely can't see the relevance of Scarftom-W here -- please specify what you're referring to here.
    Choice Specs Draco Meteor from what? Latias? Dragonite? Salamence? Druddigon? Again, specify what you're talking about here.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Volt Switch
    move 2: Hidden Power [Fire]
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Flash Cannon
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Magnet Pull
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    Give Magneton a mention here, as it almost fully outclasses Magnezone as a Choice Scarfer. Bring Magnezone's few advantages (superior power and bulk) to the surface here.
    Both are commonly Scarfed, so be sure to specify their sets
    It absolutely does. HP Ice is just as good since Magnezone now outspeeds Garchomp, Lando-T/-I, Gliscor, Thundurus-T, unboosted Dragonite, Hydreigon, and many others. HP Fire locks Magnezone into a pretty weak move that almost anything can set up on, not to mention that it become pretty useless for revenge killing if rain is present. IMO at least, HP Ice deserves to be slashed before HP Fire here, as better compliments Magenzone's now high speed stat.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    Uhhhh... no. Choice Scarf Magnezone is geared more toward revenge killing than trapping Steels. Mention partners that benefit from things such as SD Garchomp being removed from play; Wish + CM Jirachi comes to mind here, as it can keep Magnezone at high health and likes having Steels / fast Ground-types being taken out of the picture.
    Dig a bit deeper here as lots of things can form a VoltTurn core with ScarfMagnezone. Entry hazards are highly beneficial due to Magnezone's lowered damage output and Wish support could prove to be useful.
    Not to dissuade you, but if you're saying this, then you probably shouldn't have posted this thread. It doesn't take much effort to test out Choice Scarf Magnezone for a while and decide on (possibly miscellaneous) information that can be placed here. Anyway, this is where you could mention options such as Explosion and Toxic -- things that can greatly assist with bringing down special walls. TBH, I'd make more hardcore comparisons to Magneton here, as there's almost no reason to use Choice Scarf Magnezone over it.

    [Other Options]

    Magnezone gets neat options like Magic Coat, Electroweb, Gravity, and SIGNAL BEAM. Please give them a bit of love here.
    *sigh*... I ask again, why? If you remove a move, set, or anything of notability of your own accord, then provide an explanation for goodness sake. It can be confusing to those who have been using DS Magnezone to great effect or haven't used it at all.
    I'd just give Thunder an AC mention of all of the sets if it's not going to be slashed anywhere. Rain is extremely common and Magnezone already has Electric STAB in Volt Switch, so Thunderbolt is expendable.
    You've already mentioned HP Fire / Ice / Ground / Grass on the above sets. What else is there? Fighting? Flying? IMO, just mention that any additional coverage will likely come from Hidden Power due to Magnezone's shallow offensive movepool.

    [Checks and Counters]

    This area needs a ton of work. First of all, specially defensive Celebi with HP Fire / Earth Power dominates Magnezone. Bulky Grass-types in general stomp on Maggy; Virizion, Shaymin, and specially defensive Breloom can prove can prove to be a sturdy blockade in Magnezone's path. Oh, and Chansey / Blissey NEED to be mentioned as pretty much hard counters (ok seriously, how did you miss those two...?).
    and which ones are relevant in OU? Thund-T has to watch out for Hidden Power Ice and Rotom-W takes neutral damage from Magnezone's better STAB.
    ... has to watch out for Thunder and random HP Grounds. Please mention this.
    Riiiiiiight. Jirachi can't break Magnezone's subs without Fire Punch and ScarfZone will be Volt Switching pretty frequently. Pass it off as a check if it's carrying a super-effective move imo.
    "Wall" isn't the best word to use here as Flash Cannon does a nice chunk of damage to most Ground-types.
    In what way is Dugtrio a counter? A teeny bit of prior damage, and it's dead if switching into either of Magnezone's coverage attacks.
    but cannot switch into anything and needs Specs to actually scratch Magnezone, especially if rain is present.
    Specifically from what? Sunkern gets Earth Power, but that doesn't mean Magnezone should feel threatened.
    Shed Shell Heatran doesn't exist. Please, please replace that with Shed Shell Skarmory.
    ---
    I know this is your first analysis and all, but work on improving the quality of this skeleton. The skeleton is your first impression on QC; it gives them an idea of what to expect in the 'final' version of the analysis.
  3. Glacier

    Glacier

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Messages:
    32
    OMG Ty!!!!!! Made all changes

    Edit. I have used magnezone through a lot of experience. I never knew you could add stuff by opinion so thats y my thing is vague looks like I understand how this works now thx and also I am not lazy, I tested it out so plz don't say that it doesn't take that much effort
  4. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

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    EDIT: after talking about it with QC feel free to do this now. Sorry.
  5. Glacier

    Glacier

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Messages:
    32
    Okay, lol. Anyways, I would like to see some discussion with Analytic because here are some calculations that show it's destructive force:

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Thunder vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Jirachi: 309-364 (76.48 - 90.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 247-292 (58.8 - 69.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 258-304 (70.87 - 83.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 333-393 (75 - 88.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 289-342 (75.06 - 88.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 268-316 (38.06 - 44.88%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

    The best top tier specially walls are all easily 2HKOed, even Chansey with prior damage, common when you realize it doesn't carry leftovers. The only thing stopping it is ground types which are destroyed by Hidden power Ice or Flash Cannon and Volt Absorb or Loghtningrod and all those are frail anyways so the lose to Flash Cannon. The only true counter is Gastrodon and Quagsire. Thundurus t loses to HP ice. Jolteon takes more than half from HP ice and flash cannon destroyed by HP fire in sun. Just checking because it loses it's main niche of trapping steels.

    This is ready for QC. Checks and Counters updated.
  6. Magcargo 2

    Magcargo 2
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    I've actually have been using charge beam on magnezone and thing it should get a slash on the substitute + 3 attcks set. The main reason is ferrothorn, who I commonly use as setup bait, meaning tht you can theoretically take out 2 pokemon because literally nothing can take +3 magnezone's attacks bar chansey and blissey, who are very rare. However, you should only run charge beam if using HP ice.
  7. Glacier

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    Tbh, HP ice is already pretty rare as most magnezone use specs or scarf. Charge beam goes with HP ice which is a
    So rare so I put it as the primary option in ac but i am considering in putting it as a slash over flash c
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Charge Beam is so much better than Sub + 3 Attacks imo - it makes Magnezone much less of a set-up bait, gives it a better chance at defeating SubCM Jirachi, and it can actually transform into a strong special nuke after +2 or more boosts (esp in Rain with tremendous Thunder spam). If it wasn't for the potential Charge Beam boosts, there's really no point in running Sub + 3 Attacks over Specs. Unless other QC members object, slash Charge Beam / HP Ice before Flash Cannon / HP Fire please.
  9. Glacier

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    Did some testing and charge beam is too good I slashed it differently with charge beam the mAin move the point is to setup on steels take out 2 Pokemon at most and this set destroys stall but I am willing to convert it back if QC argues back
  10. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Glad you appreciate the mightiness of charge beam zone! I think it's qc policy to not slash Thunder on any of the main sets - we mention Thunder with Rain support in AC or OO instead.
  11. Glacier

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    Changed the thunder to ac and oo like you said
  12. BKC

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    alright looks good

    qc approved 1/3
  13. Hemp Man

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    Does Jolteon really counter him? Magnezone resists Thunderbolt, HP Ice, Signal Beam, Shadow Ball, etc. Not much Jolteon can do back.
  14. Glacier

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    thx, one more qc and i can type this thing!

    EDIT: at hemp man, Choice Specs Thunder actually 2HKOes after some prior damage
  15. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    qc approved 2/2

    bzzt
  16. Hemp Man

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    Specs HP Fire/Ice 2HKO's Jolteon after Stealth Rock damage, but I suppose Jolteon can easily come in an Electric attack and gain back health. Yeah I guess Jolteon makes for a good check.

    Ninetails can revenge kill non-Scarf Zone pretty easily with Drought Flamethrower. Could add that.
  17. Glacier

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    K no prob

    @Lavos thx ill type this right away
  18. Glacier

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    [​IMG]
    Finished typing this!
  19. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
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    just quick for GP purposes

    It should be Hidden Power Ice without the brackets around the typing, same with Fire, etc.

    It's U-turn not U-Turn

    Make sure all of your EV mentions have SpA, SpD, and Spe for Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed

    Make sure all of your its and it's are correct, it's = it is, its = possessive

    base isn't capitalized

    ~
  20. Glacier

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    Oh sorry, my green dot thing was on me, but I wasn't at home, so it took a while, thanks.
  21. Lork

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    in the specs set you list modest before talking about using timid. modest and 252 speed is pointless and anything other than modest on the specs set doesn't swing (imagine jolly cb scizor).

    152 speed 252 sp atk modest specszone will outside 8 speed heatran and smash the specially defensive variants with at least 43%, so i recommend that to be able to pick off weakened tran.
  22. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Overview

    Refrain from mentioning useless info (iirc Magnezone got new tutor moves btw) such as general talk of new Pokemon getting Superpower and such, and focus on Magnezone's role. If you want to talk about Magnezone's flaws first, that's fine, but be precise and to the point. Mention how it is outsped by every single offensive Pokemon, and that most of them carry super effective moves against it, which is his biggest negative. Aside from that you can also mention that it's not so hard to wall as common Pokemon such as SpD Celebi and SpD Hippowdon can take hits from it all day long.

    Also, when talking about Magnezone's steel-killing abilities, mention how it has all the tools necessary to deal with most Steel-types, namely STAB Electric moves and HP Fire. Also mention that Magnezone can make most defensive Steel-types liabilities with its SubCharge set.

    Substitute Attacker

    Set Comments:

    First, rename the name of the set to this ^.

    Omit the first sentence in the Set Comments, as you never compare the first set with the others (which have not been yet been explained to the reader). If you want to make a comparison, compare one of the other sets to sets that have already been explained. The first sentence should be describing how Magnezone can trap and/or set up against defensive Steel-types, such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress, and U-turn-less SpD Jirachi, which is its basic role.

    This is not true. Magnezone is very slow and easily walled to make anything useful after Steel-types are gone. Offensive Pokemon KO it and defensive Pokemon wall it or can freely switch out to something else that walls it. This Magnezone's main use is eliminating Steel-types from the opposing team and maybe killing another Pokemon after, if you managed to get multiple Charge Beam boosts and kept a Sub up when KOing the Steel-type.

    Remove all this. As i said don't compare this set with other sets that have not yet been explained. Also EV spreads are explained in the AC.

    Reword this to: ''Substitute has two uses. The first is to evade status and Leech Seed from the Steel-types that Magnezone wants to trap and the second is to protect Magnezone from faster Pokemon after the Steel-type has been eliminated, which will usually lead to a second KO.''


    Ugh... I am just at the Set Comments of the first set and i feel like i am rewriting everything you wrote. Sorry but unless you rewrite this more carefully and make it less sloppy and confusing and with better explanations of how each set is played, i am afraid we will have to give this to someone else to write.
  23. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    I'm sorry, but the quality just isn't here. There are too many issues with the prose, and more than GP can be expected to handle and fix. We're going to have to reassign this to another writer.

    Sorry about this, but it can't be helped.
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